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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by SavileRow View Post
    Guys Give it up, there's no reasoning with anyone who says he's not calling for B.A nerfs , then goes on to list a set of nerfs he thinks should happen and the repeats calls for B.A nerfs, then goes on to deny he's calling for nerfs....he's peddling 'FAKE NEWS'

    He needs help and understanding not your time and consideration, hopefully he'll move to the 'Legendary (lol) Server' where he can't do much harm.
    LS has no PvMP and I doubt it ever will as the PvMP we all know. I'm tempted to come over to Evernight just for the LULZ effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    I keep reading that "when freeps gear up, balance could be really good." I shared that outlook and was very hopeful when U23 was launched. But gearing up in U23 is unlike any update I've ever played through, and the implications of that do not bode well for PvMP. Here's why. I would guesstimate that at least 60%, and probably more like 70%, of freeps in the Moors in U22 were 'casual players. When I say casual players, that does not mean they are not skilled players. It means they are players who have no desire to grind instances over and over again to get the best gear available. They are not at all interested in running the new 6-person instance in T3 which takes about 3 hours to run. That is not going to change. I expect most of those players will sit out U23, and that's 60% to 70% of the players in the Moors in U22. Then there are the hard-core raiders. They make up, guessing here, about 20% of the Moors' freep population. Seems like about half of this group was banned for loot box exploits, so they won't be in the Moors either. Then you'll find about 10% to 20% of freeps will do some T2/T3 content, and have somewhat decent armor. Where does that leave things as far as freeps gearing up? It leaves about 80% to 85% of the freeps Moors population gone.

    Unlike other updates, there are only two ways to gear up in U23: buy your gear, or grind T2/T3 instances everyday for one, maybe two months. Quest armor is trash. T1 loots are cosmetics. Players who rely on quest armor or T1 gear are, for the most part, going to sit U23 out. They're already as geared up much as they're going to be. Maybe SSG will introduce something else to account for this, but if they do, those players who have spent months grinding instances are going to be really mad if SSG releases new gear that is anyway near the gear they've spent months working to get.

    Let me finish by saying that I do not want creeps nerfed. I want freeps to have reasonable gearing options that do not require buying armor or grinding T2/T3 instances endlessly.
    Yes this is the problem. Knowing this supports why I made this thread. There are some inevitable's we as PvPers will have to face. The main one being the Freepside gear grind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post
    not gonna happen lol
    Agreed it won't happen for the majority. Which means PvMP loses more players.


    For the record and to place it in this thread. I never advocated the complete removal of Aud. It needs to be rewritten and become a non factor in PvMP and the Freep gear in the Moors.
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  2. #52
    I think there is a difference between pointing out the unintended consequences of a patch, and suggesting those be looked at, and calling for a U23 creep nerf. When U23 was released, I was very happy. I did not see creeps getting killed before they ever had a chance to fight back as in U22. When I got some mid-level gear, it was exciting because I really had to fight hard to win a fight, and I still lost most. But the challenge was there and it was not an insurmountable one that made U23 unplayable. What we have seen several times, since U23's release, are patches that cause DPS numbers to swing wildly one way or another. Suggesting that balance was better before the patch and pointing out large swings in stats or numbers is not the same thing as asking for a creep nerf. The ability to kill an opponent, whether on freep side or creep side, using only one or two skills is not an example of good PvP. Whenever I see this happening, I would expect/hope that PvP players who want to see balanced, quality PvP would speak up.
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  3. #53
    1. The expectation of gear meeting the task.

    2. The acquisition of gear for the task.


    If one or both of these are not presented in a way for the majority players to come out and pvp, that's one thing in itself which defeats the growth of PvMP. The addition of a Creep counterpart having their dps and skills out of line with the rest of the Creep faction compounds the problem of growth to PvMP.

    Freeps are being put in a position where its an uphill climb all the way to do what a creep can do much easier. Sure Creep rank plays a role but that has always been in the mix. However the Freep investment to come out and PvP becomes more and more a job than fun for a game. All that just to have the goal post moved again and again by Turbine now SSG, I won't take part in it. I saw this long ago at 65 cap and said lol no my LI was supposed to stay with me and I won't grind another again to come out and PvP. Now this is well beyond LI's.


    Will SSG give on the Freep dilemma? Not a chance if there is money to be made. I kinda don't blame them but, damn there are viable alternatives.
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    For mange nonsens
    Uanset hvad du siger, kære lærer.
    NamnEtt - Commander of "Sovereign" - "Game Over Club" (Saks Rang 15 with all deeds completed ONLY)
    Blood Bath and Beyond

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Corwelleon View Post
    Let me assure any who is interested that Sap = Splay.
    I have little doubt that no one is interested in that.

    However when an OP suggests a, literally, need to nerf a class (which it need not), then denies he did suggest it. And claims he is someone after hiding it, because it has little bearing (or not?), then...

    Then it interests me more than the umpteenth argument if whether or not a creep class needs a nerf after a level cap. raise.

    And it will take more than several ''lol u gotta belif me'' to convince me he is the ''original'', while the history of the forum says, with little doubt, otherwise.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by LH0H0 View Post
    I have little doubt that no one is interested in that.
    And yet here you are claiming to have no interest except to point this out. Hmm... Interesting.


    Quote Originally Posted by LH0H0 View Post
    However when an OP suggests a, literally, need to nerf a class (which it need not), then denies he did suggest it. And claims he is someone after hiding it, because it has little bearing (or not?), then...
    Oh but wait... You are interested. This is becoming even more interesting. Now if only you were interested enough to actually read the OP, you'd see your tangent tirade is ill founded.


    Quote Originally Posted by LH0H0 View Post
    Then it interests me more than the umpteenth argument if whether or not a creep class needs a nerf after a level cap. raise.
    I see this is more than a topic of interest to you. You have more to add and still base it on an argument that didn't happen. To be bluntly honest I am now losing interest.


    Quote Originally Posted by LH0H0 View Post
    And it will take more than several ''lol u gotta belif me'' to convince me he is the ''original'', while the history of the forum says, with little doubt, otherwise.

    I assure you, I am he. The player behind Splay, always have been, but you say otherwise and offer no proof. I can see the distraction you are trying to create on a non factor. Which is focusing on the messenger verses the message. Since you are yourself hiding behind a new troll account, I will be happy to wait until your ban ends so you can indeed reveal to us all, to whom it is I am replying to.



    Meanwhile, I continue to decimate all opposition of every class and often 3 or more simultaneously. Guess what? Most of the time it occurs, I never fire a shot. OP traps ftw. These are Freeps with the current teal T2 gear and some T12 essence slotted.


    Yep the BA is OP and not just your conventional OP. This is God-Mode OP.


    Tomorrow is Tuesday. Perhaps this pendulum insanity will settled down and we can get to do decent, fun PvMP.
    Last edited by sapienze; Nov 12 2018 at 08:09 PM.
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  7. #57
    I continue to think there's no need of change, and it's good there has not been any so we can keep doing extensive tests with, or without, whatever freeps come in the moors.


    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    I assure you, I am he.
    Assurance

    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    The player behind Splay, always have been, but you say otherwise and offer no proof.
    Is a proof.


    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    Since you are yourself hiding behind a new troll account, I will be happy to wait until your ban ends so you can indeed reveal to us all, to whom it is I am replying to.
    Looking forward to replying to Christian.S too?
    Don't hold your breath.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by LH0H0 View Post
    I continue to think there's no need of change, and it's good there has not been any so we can keep doing extensive tests with, or without, whatever freeps come in the moors.
    What are you going to test without freeps in the Moors?
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  9. #59
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    I'd honestly like see a video of any freep winning 1v1 s a BA right now besides redline hunters bursting from camo, Im 100% confident not possible so if that's case of course the class needs a weakening of skills its legit as unfair as a good warden 1v1'ing any freep level during 115

  10. #60
    Join Date
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    If you talk to the Ba that you’re about to 1v1 and you too agree that he won’t used bugged skills like barrage or traps than it’s fairly balanced. Other wise, the way BAs are using their skills is pretty much exploiting. Btw Mikey just because you can do abyss doesn’t mean your a good player, there were times when I did pugs and I outparsed the hunter in my group on rk. People can easily be carried.
    Last edited by Fraushgrish2; Nov 15 2018 at 10:09 AM.

  11. #61
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    Hunters who can deal 200k damage with a single skill as merciful shoot, just one example,not talking about incoming health debuff hits, who does 100-200k damage when fired from stealth, are complaining about three blackarrow skills who are still, 3-4 times below the hunter damage, ¿Really? Perhaps all you need is finish the gear process, and group up, feels hard to not oneshoot a creep, I know, but, you free peoples shall dam adapt, and play.

    Something about the OP (That guy who called BA nerf.) He NEVER, i repeat, never, ever... complained on forums about the poor state of Player versus Monster Player during the last two or three years, just needed to watch his post history. So, this is such an useless thread, unless the cry is that big, to force another nerf, very typical freep, yes. I am sure, crying for victory is cowards fate, and by no way in the mood of playing another coule of years against the odds.
    NamnEtt - Commander of "Sovereign" - "Game Over Club" (Saks Rang 15 with all deeds completed ONLY)
    Blood Bath and Beyond

  12. #62
    Good ole lotro pvp forums with that Duning-Kruger Effect and cognitive dissonance on full display!
    Turine Turambare - Warlord - Warg Slayer - Weaver's Enemy - Reaver's Enemy - Blackarrow's Enemy - Warleader's Enemy - Defiler Foe
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    ... occasionally seen on... Mynutts/Thick/Blasthardcheese/Vladtheimpaler/--------/Twiggyt/Belege/Bodybags

  13. #63
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    Snare dot fire trap Vt dot all nerfed. Can you plz close this thread now?
    Keen eye bug is there ofc

    [Tangaar Captain] [Acidglow Weaver]
    -->Black Glass Remix skin<---

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    What are you going to test without freeps in the Moors?
    The thread was opened with tests on NPCs and the supposed effects on freeps.
    And I am testing my build and rotation till I manage to flip an OP in 22 seconds!

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    1. The expectation of gear meeting the task.

    2. The acquisition of gear for the task.


    If one or both of these are not presented in a way for the majority players to come out and pvp, that's one thing in itself which defeats the growth of PvMP. The addition of a Creep counterpart having their dps and skills out of line with the rest of the Creep faction compounds the problem of growth to PvMP.

    Freeps are being put in a position where its an uphill climb all the way to do what a creep can do much easier. Sure Creep rank plays a role but that has always been in the mix. However the Freep investment to come out and PvP becomes more and more a job than fun for a game. All that just to have the goal post moved again and again by Turbine now SSG, I won't take part in it. I saw this long ago at 65 cap and said lol no my LI was supposed to stay with me and I won't grind another again to come out and PvP. Now this is well beyond LI's.


    Will SSG give on the Freep dilemma? Not a chance if there is money to be made. I kinda don't blame them but, damn there are viable alternatives.

    Well I disagree only on one point my friend, rest what you said is spot on , but gear should meet the task in somewhat if players can defeat r8+ creeps with little gear that proves OP unbalance but if a good player cant defeat same rank with best gear obtainable that also represents OPness from the defenders side

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by mikkye View Post
    Well I disagree only on one point my friend, rest what you said is spot on , but gear should meet the task in somewhat if players can defeat r8+ creeps with little gear that proves OP unbalance but if a good player cant defeat same rank with best gear obtainable that also represents OPness from the defenders side
    My rk14 Hunt who is almost completely fully geared atm can't hardly get a rk6 BA below half health, much less kill them.

    I've been having good solo fights with higher ranked wargs, reavs, WLs, and even some weavs (please stop calling out a solo Hunt from your burrow, that's just sad).

    Defs are also jokingly OP atm, but meh, they can only kill me if I try to stay and kill them. (As an aside, a class with the self healing ability of a defiler should NEVER IMHO be able to kill a DPS class. Self heal through my dps all day long, I can dig it, but shouldn't at the same time be able to kill me.)

    "When freeps get geared"...blah blah blah.

    How about updating PVP gear with every update?

    Either that, or remove Audacity completely, or untether from gear and allow freeps to buy w/ comms.

    Having a gating mechanism that either serves as a significant buff...or a significant nerf...yet tying it to outdated gear on one side while allowing the other to buy w/ comms...is no bueno for pvp.

    My2cents.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will try to kill you. But first...they must catch you. Creepsbane. Warlord. Prince with the quick sword. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and you will never be destroyed...

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Intolerance View Post
    My rk14 Hunt who is almost completely fully geared atm can't hardly get a rk6 BA below half health, much less kill them.

    I've been having good solo fights with higher ranked wargs, reavs, WLs, and even some weavs (please stop calling out a solo Hunt from your burrow, that's just sad).

    Defs are also jokingly OP atm, but meh, they can only kill me if I try to stay and kill them. (As an aside, a class with the self healing ability of a defiler should NEVER IMHO be able to kill a DPS class. Self heal through my dps all day long, I can dig it, but shouldn't at the same time be able to kill me.)

    "When freeps get geared"...blah blah blah.

    How about updating PVP gear with every update?

    Either that, or remove Audacity completely, or untether from gear and allow freeps to buy w/ comms.

    Having a gating mechanism that either serves as a significant buff...or a significant nerf...yet tying it to outdated gear on one side while allowing the other to buy w/ comms...is no bueno for pvp.

    My2cents.
    For the most part I totally agree with your sentiments here, if a class can outheal all incoming damage from a DPS class.. they shouldn't have any dps themselves. Guards are a perfect example of this being broken. Im a firm believer that your ability to do DPS, should ALWAYS be inversely proportional to your ability to survive. Some classes are more extreme, some are more mild in this balance. If a champ or guard can take 300+% of their initial morale pool in damage, they shouldn't be able to kill me in any reasonable amount of time, yet this is almost never the case. A beorn (as "broken" as they claim to be) can absorb nearly 500k morale and still put out the same dps as some other non-dps classes (6-8k damage while still kiting and healing). Defilers barely have dps.. but they can absorb MASSIVE damage and still live. In the same regard, balance isn't acheived in individual matchups. Nothing is more humbling a class in the moors (over the years) than a glass cannon warg, you can't beat every class 1v1, even on your best days, some classes you get to avoid, and some you know are just going to blow you up in seconds. Just because you've been able to kill any class in a 1v1 matchup in the past, doesn't mean it will remain so currently. So pick your battles, don't engage BAs, and try to find some good fights because once you escape GV, some of us out there want a good matchup and not a shuffle/one-shot farm.
    ~Anaxander R9 Warden, Baranthor R5 Hunter, Skartan R2 Guardian~ Elendilmir
    ~Karukh R10 Warg, Prisonshank R6 Reaver~ Elendilmir
    **Mac User**

  18. #68
    The situation in U23 really isn't that different than the situation in U22. In U22 you had a couple of freep classes that could kill just about any target in seconds if they got the jump on them: burgs and hunters. In U23, we have the same situation, just with the shoe on the other foot with BAs.
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by AaronIU View Post
    Im a firm believer that your ability to do DPS, should ALWAYS be inversely proportional to your ability to survive.
    It isn't that simple, because you can use DPS as a survival tool, as was seen with freeps in U21 and U22

    Running super glass builds, freeps used overwhelming DPS to burn through even the tankiest creeps with overwhelming focus fire and AOE damage...forcing creeps to put on huge amounts of mits or stack ungodly numbers of defilers/warleaders and utilize difficult bursting tactics... thus further enhancing the freep's survival.


    Glasscannon burgs with 0 mits and 0 morale could 1-shot creeps, effectively making themselves invincible in many 1v1 situations because no creep could even get a skill off.


    If I could trade all of my morale/mits/resist/etc for DPS I would, because DPS has strong offensive and defensive components.
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    The situation in U23 really isn't that different than the situation in U22. In U22 you had a couple of freep classes that could kill just about any target in seconds if they got the jump on them: burgs and hunters. In U23, we have the same situation, just with the shoe on the other foot with BAs.
    I took my BA out for a spin last evening. The Black Arrow seems more reasonable "TODAY". I'm not saying it is perfect, just more reasonable.

    We still have Freep progress in gearing. I haven't forgotten this fact, the day I made this thread nor have I today.



    Two things to note here.

    1. This nerf was going to happen regardless of this thread. The chain that binds Creeps to NPCs and the changes to core stats is the reason. It is the only reason. How do I know this. Take notice how in the other sections of these forums any thread talking about bleeds has fallen silent.
    Last evening I went to that same OP and read the combat chat as it scrolled by. The Tree Troll barely had an impact on my morale. Which is sad really because now the NPCs in the Moors are just obstacles we ignore rather than being something to factor in when pvping. Flipping the OP was uneventful and quite boring.

    2. I play Creep. It's as simple as the sentence making the declaration. I knew previous to making this thread, there would be harsh responses from some Creeps. With that said, I still did it anyway.
    Why? Because I firmly believe it needed to be said. No one in this thread who showed opposition can stand today and say the changes yesterday hurt the BA so bad to claim it is a worthless class. The traps are still OP given the situation "TODAY". Note the emphasis on "TODAY". Again, note the emphasis on "TODAY". The Dps skills are manageable. In summary the BA is closer in line to the other Creeps classes. Now Freeps, if they want to PvP need to find a way to make the gear grind happen.
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

 

 
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