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  1. #1
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    Since the Legendary Server is a PAID service...

    Since my other thread was ignored, I'm gonna ask this another way. The LS is a vip-only thing. We are already paying for it, it's p2p. There is no need for tricks.

    Will there be lootboxes with gear that is better than instance drops?
    Will there be any tricks that drive you to the store for gear?

  2. #2
    They have said that this world will be as any other world with the exception that the cap is 50 and they might tweak the xp curve back a little to allow more areas to be enjoyed before out levelling them. I don't think they have the expertise to do this properly as the itemisation for each level is fairly set and as they kept saying on the chat that any fundamental changes to LS would also mean changes to all other servers.

    I guess the spam has started. Must be a dozen threads now open on similar topics
    ----A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything----

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joetzim View Post
    Since my other thread was ignored, I'm gonna ask this another way. The LS is a vip-only thing. We are already paying for it, it's p2p. There is no need for tricks.

    Will there be lootboxes with gear that is better than instance drops?
    Will there be any tricks that drive you to the store for gear?
    Both answers have been given,,,,,

    Yes and Yes

    They may slow the XP which will make more people buy XP tomes in the store. Slayer deed accels can no longer be acquired in game due to new lootbox rules so use the store. Want to craft faster, hey they sell all recipes and full tiers of crating in the store. So spend spend spend spend...... SSG = Spend Spend Games IMO

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LabadalofDorlomin View Post
    They have said that this world will be as any other world with the exception that the cap is 50 and they might tweak the xp curve back a little to allow more areas to be enjoyed before out levelling them. I don't think they have the expertise to do this properly as the itemisation for each level is fairly set and as they kept saying on the chat that any fundamental changes to LS would also mean changes to all other servers.

    I guess the spam has started. Must be a dozen threads now open on similar topics
    This does not answer my question. I abandoned this game because of the p2w. I am not familiar with the state of the game on current live. I asked a simple question. I just wanna know if I should even consider returning.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joetzim View Post
    This does not answer my question. I abandoned this game because of the p2w. I am not familiar with the state of the game on current live. I asked a simple question. I just wanna know if I should even consider returning.
    Yes, there will be lootboxes. Yes, all items in the store except for level boosts that boost your character beyond level 50 will be available. Yes, many people will buy things from the store, they're already talking about it (stat tomes, experience boosts, etc.)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Joetzim View Post
    I just wanna know if I should even consider returning.

    No. Not worth it.

    It will still be all about the store.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    Both answers have been given,,,,,

    Yes and Yes

    They may slow the XP which will make more people buy XP tomes in the store. Slayer deed accels can no longer be acquired in game due to new lootbox rules so use the store. Want to craft faster, hey they sell all recipes and full tiers of crating in the store. So spend spend spend spend...... SSG = Spend Spend Games IMO
    I too have several names to add:
    - Shallow Software Group
    - Super Shop Games
    - Silent Snake Gambles

    Considering they need to alter the stat scaling for the legendary server, which affects lootboxes and their potential loot, I reckon SSG will introduce another type of lootbox(ex), a leveling one that provides exp/slayer tomes, teal leveling items etc. - and one endgame lootbox with currency, end-game items etc.

    OP: nothing has changed with the constant P2W rails this game has been on since Mordor. No point in going for the legendary server, as you can ease your vanilla-esque experience by buying everything you need from the shop. Bought hope from the shop might even be worth spending money on.

  8. #8
    Foxmaiden14 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Joetzim View Post
    This does not answer my question. I abandoned this game because of the p2w. I am not familiar with the state of the game on current live. I asked a simple question. I just wanna know if I should even consider returning.
    Explain to me how this game is pay to win please? There's no pvp to speak of, the only thing I can think of is people whining that they can't afford to buy stuff off the store.

    If you want a game that inickles-and-dimes you to death, there's Elder Scrolls Online; otherwise known as Extortion Selling Online.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxmaiden14 View Post
    Explain to me how this game is pay to win please? ...the only thing I can think of is people whining that they can't afford to buy stuff off the store.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Joetzim View Post
    This does not answer my question. I abandoned this game because of the p2w. I am not familiar with the state of the game on current live. I asked a simple question. I just wanna know if I should even consider returning.
    I answered your question... Same as live servers now!

    I would say don't bother returning... you obviously have a beef with current game and this will not change. All this will be is a level 50 cap or end game. Everything else, love or hate will be the same.

    I will try it cos I'm a lifer. If I wasn't, then probably not unless it was a time locked 1-50 zone where Angmar and Rift were end game in perpetuity with the option to move a character on to another level locked zone later.

    So, if you are going to pay a sub (as im assuming your sub lapsed) then this isn't probably the thing for you.

    By the way, if you do a little research and keep up with other quite current threads or live streams on this very subject, you would have all the answers with no need to post a thread about it.
    ----A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything----

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxmaiden14 View Post
    Explain to me how this game is pay to win please? There's no pvp to speak of, the only thing I can think of is people whining that they can't afford to buy stuff off the store.

    If you want a game that inickles-and-dimes you to death, there's Elder Scrolls Online; otherwise known as Extortion Selling Online.
    I can explain why I don't play. It's the unbearable #### content that culminated in Mordor and continued ever since. This game has always been notorious for making money by inconveniencing the player in every possible way. However, with Mordor they took that up several notches. They didn't just put gear in the store for a fixed price, they actually put it in lootboxes, which means you have to pay an rng price. You either quit, because you can't stand the grind, or you pay.

    Now, 2 updates later they remove standard lootboxes and sturdy steel keys, so now people can't satisfy their gambling "needs" through those, they have to go to the store. This also removes several convenience items like xp boosters and slayer boosters, which are also only available from the store. The next logical step is to reduce xp gains so that people again have no choice other than the store or quitting. The grind is going up and up and up unless you pay. You are losing things that were an integral part of the game and the economy for years. Things are getting taken away gradually and no one says a thing.

    Now, what next? We charge them for playing the game. Legendary Server, vip only. Of course, all the restrictions and inconveniencing that are the hallmarks of a free-to-play game still apply. So you get the worst of both worlds, you get charged twice. Now, I'm only asking are they also adding p2w? Will regular items from quests, instances and crafting be useless #### because of broken scaling, leaving you lootbox gear as the only option? That's what I'm asking. Will they reduce droprates to zilch so that you get tired of farming and go buy the keys? Will they nickel and dime you every step of the way by reducing xp gains, removing swift travels or even horses? All this despite the server being SUBSCRIBER-ONLY!

    I can't believe no one says a thing. It used to be either p2p model or f2p model, not the worst of both worlds.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Joetzim View Post
    ...
    The next logical step is to reduce xp gains so that people again have no choice other than the store or quitting.
    ...
    Will they nickel and dime you every step of the way by reducing xp gains, removing swift travels or even horses? All this despite the server being SUBSCRIBER-ONLY!

    I can't believe no one says a thing. It used to be either p2p model or f2p model, not the worst of both worlds.
    Fun part is that people actually asking for this in neighbor threads.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Joetzim View Post
    I can explain why I don't play. It's the unbearable #### content that culminated in Mordor and continued ever since. This game has always been notorious for making money by inconveniencing the player in every possible way. However, with Mordor they took that up several notches. They didn't just put gear in the store for a fixed price, they actually put it in lootboxes, which means you have to pay an rng price. You either quit, because you can't stand the grind, or you pay.
    I have to agree that from Helms Deep through to Mordor the content was not to my liking either. Minas Tirith could have been so good but they not only decide to make it a run me- fetch me quest hub which became so dull that all you could think of was to throw yourself from the pier. (ehm I wonder if that is why Denethor became so despondent? He knew Turbine were involved) [Facepalm]

    However, I think the good intentions of making content harder in Mordor was coupled or utilised by them to also push store stuff. The lootbox was a natural progression as it has become a standard in the industry. That being said, I only opened lootboxes using keys from quests. It wasn't and isn't my focus.

    You can do all ground content without the need for the best gear, in fact it makes running the content more fun. But, if the best gear is what you require then yes, I can understand your frustration. Which is why I will try the LS and hope that they add some nice drops in the level 50 group content and not make it all from lootboxes. I have no issue it being in lootboxes as long as it is achievable in game content also.

    I fear though that because of the 4 month window before they drop Moria, this is all a waste of time anyway. Those who want to do the raids at l50 will probably opt for a mixture of lootbox and content drops and then as soon as Moria is available everyone will be moved on and all the SoA nostalgia will be lost. Leaving them with a damp squib because most folks who try will head back to their original servers.
    ----A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything----

  14. #14
    Why does it matter if someone uses the store? This isn't exactly a game where you are pitted against human foes swiping for advantage. This game is a sanctuary against those types of games. Even loot boxes. If you don't want to use them don't use them. I bank keys until I get boxes or sell them. Not sure where the problem is with this.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PANZERBUNNY View Post
    Why does it matter if someone uses the store? This isn't exactly a game where you are pitted against human foes swiping for advantage. This game is a sanctuary against those types of games. Even loot boxes. If you don't want to use them don't use them. I bank keys until I get boxes or sell them. Not sure where the problem is with this.
    Store content is cheap and easy to produce and easy to sell for a ton of profit. Some games, like BDO, abuse this to the max when they sell new stuff in the store every week, while they hardly ever produce actual playable content. It's full-on p2w, too. LOTRO is not this case, LOTRO pumps out too much content actually. So that's not the problem.

    The problem is they sell the wrong things in the store. Look at ESO. They can afford to give away their latest DLC for FREE, because they make so much money selling just FLUFF in their store. It's not p2w, you don't need any buffs. It's just fancy fluff. LOTRO, in contrast, seeks to make the gameplay as UNCOMFORTABLE as possible to DRIVE you to the store for XP boosts, deed boosts, trait points, quick travel, mithril coins, etc. They make every aspect of the game, from questing to traveling to leveling, a drag. They design landscapes that require a lot of legwork, they design endless back and forth quests, they design areas that are freaking hard to navigate and traverse, they even design a ton of dark and gloomy places nowadays update after update just because they know a lot of people can't stand it. This is a despicable, malevolent strategy.

    I do not have a problem with the store. I have a problem with how it destroyed the game. Despite how it seems, I care about the game and I wish I didn't have to ##### about this non-stop.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LabadalofDorlomin View Post
    I have to agree that from Helms Deep through to Mordor the content was not to my liking either. Minas Tirith could have been so good but they not only decide to make it a run me- fetch me quest hub which became so dull that all you could think of was to throw yourself from the pier. (ehm I wonder if that is why Denethor became so despondent? He knew Turbine were involved) [Facepalm]

    However, I think the good intentions of making content harder in Mordor was coupled or utilised by them to also push store stuff. The lootbox was a natural progression as it has become a standard in the industry. That being said, I only opened lootboxes using keys from quests. It wasn't and isn't my focus.

    You can do all ground content without the need for the best gear, in fact it makes running the content more fun. But, if the best gear is what you require then yes, I can understand your frustration. Which is why I will try the LS and hope that they add some nice drops in the level 50 group content and not make it all from lootboxes. I have no issue it being in lootboxes as long as it is achievable in game content also.

    I fear though that because of the 4 month window before they drop Moria, this is all a waste of time anyway. Those who want to do the raids at l50 will probably opt for a mixture of lootbox and content drops and then as soon as Moria is available everyone will be moved on and all the SoA nostalgia will be lost. Leaving them with a damp squib because most folks who try will head back to their original servers.
    I'm not even against lootboxes as long as they are how you described them. Gear should be achieveable by playing the game. The key is to not reach the tipping point where you just say, "Eff this, it's not worth the effort." I fear they have passed this point for a lot of people.

    I think one of the key things that's often overlooked is that the LS will actually die once it reaches Rohan. You spend 4 months with each expansion (SoA, MoM, SoM, RoI, - if they even count Mirkwood), that's 16 months. I actually bet they won't count Mirkwood so it ends up being around a year. After that you hit Rohan, you go back to your original server. There is nothing to stay for. No real raids, no new instances. Plus, Rohan is kind of where modern LOTRO began. It doesn't merit a legendary server.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joetzim View Post
    I'm not even against lootboxes as long as they are how you described them. Gear should be achieveable by playing the game. The key is to not reach the tipping point where you just say, "Eff this, it's not worth the effort." I fear they have passed this point for a lot of people.

    I think one of the key things that's often overlooked is that the LS will actually die once it reaches Rohan. You spend 4 months with each expansion (SoA, MoM, SoM, RoI, - if they even count Mirkwood), that's 16 months. I actually bet they won't count Mirkwood so it ends up being around a year. After that you hit Rohan, you go back to your original server. There is nothing to stay for. No real raids, no new instances. Plus, Rohan is kind of where modern LOTRO began. It doesn't merit a legendary server.
    The loot-tables will be just as they are on the current live servers--with the addition of loot-boxes (already confirmed). As the loot-boxes are now "scaleable", you can rest assured that there will be items of better quality in them than what you would get by completing a dungeon. This should surprise no one at this point.

    Furthermore, they've already mentioned a distaste for the unique loot that would drop from that era--those named items that people use to covet, etc. They have shown a clear misunderstanding of what people want in a legacy server and are giving us a simple copy and paste of what is currently on live with a server imposed level cap. This is all about the quick $$$ with minimal investment on their end. The fact that the store is even active on a sub-restricted server should be a clear sign of their intentions.

    As for Rohan, while I agree with you I don't even think it will make it that far. I don't think SSG have even planned it out that far. If we have learned anything, it's that this company doesn't do long term planning very well.

  18. #18
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    You want a history of how things changed, I read through the Wiki last night on Lotro Patches, you can see how things changed over time. Very interesting.

    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Pat...se_of_Isengard
    It is logical, in view of the times in which we live. But to be logical is not to be right, and nothing on God's earth could ever make it right!
    - Judge Dan Haywood

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryos View Post
    No. Not worth it.

    It will still be all about the store.
    You realize you don't HAVE to buy things from the store? (But, everyone else is buying things from the store!)

    You don't have to be like everyone else... (but, but but....)

    ...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starliteyes View Post
    You realize you don't HAVE to buy things from the store? You don't have to be like everyone else...

  21. #21
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    The sooner you all realize that this game is Pay-To-Progression the better. I have already cancelled my sub since U23 launched with their overt “Give us money!” tag line. The problem is that they are no longer making a quality product that people are willing to sub for, just a cash grab now until the game shuts down. Think of this as the start of their “Going out of business” liquidation sale. Squeeze as much out until it’s dead.

    Nice job, SSG! High fives

  22. #22
    I honestly don't see the point of legendary servers. I mean they do what exactly here? They suppose to show you what the game was like back then? That's easy roll out the patch for that time period when they didn't have 3 sets of skill trees and pvm was awesome and loose the Lotro store and offer up Legendary Lifetime accounts and then your all set. Heck I'd even play on them. If they not doing that then what's all the hype about? I mean seriously? lol
    Shadow Circle Order-(SCO)
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Starliteyes View Post
    You realize you don't HAVE to buy things from the store? (But, everyone else is buying things from the store!)

    You don't have to be like everyone else... (but, but but....)

    ...
    Seriously? Did you actually read the excellent posts by Joetzim? Try again. In the event one avoids the store entirely, how are you going to avoid the grind and poorly designed
    back-and-forth, back-and-forth quest lines all designed to annoy the customer? (in an attempt to motivate them to pay their way out of the grind)

    If anything Joetzim is an optimist. Currently LOTRO is a pay 2 play game, not free 2 play. It has subscriptions, pay for content etc. It is a pay 2 play game with all the annoyances of a free 2 play
    game. What percentage of the player population grinds out all their LP's all the way to end game? Hardly any. Is it any wonder why SSG is struggling with such a situation?

    The Legendary Server simply removes the option on whether or not to subscribe. But the fact that a Legendary Server with mandatory VIP was deemed necessary already tells you
    that the free marketplace deems the VIP subscription a poor value. If VIP was a good value then more people would subscribe voluntarily. It isn't so they don't.

    I have been VIP in the past and bought LP's 3 times in the last year. A VIP subscription does little to remove LOTRO's pay2 win and annoyance factor.

    Many of the current LOTRO problems are self inflicted by a very poor business model. I have run my own online business since 1995 and to this day cannot believe that a company
    that does such an excellent job with certain aspects (e.g. world building) is so lost on the business front.

    I have been tempted to make some suggestions but based on my vast experience working with Devs all over the world doubt SSG would listen.

    The other issues no one here has mentioned is that if - IF - the LS is successful medium term, the current servers will become second class citizens. Whether the Devs intend it or not,
    money will eventually talk and the LS would become the focus. Thus it is not risk free to ignore the LS if one wants to play LOTRO.

    In fact this has already started. Notice the movement toward harder content that movtivates/practically requires grouping up. I am sure other could come up with other examples.

    If SSG wants to go sub only that is fine by me. IF any game can do so then a niche game like LOTRO can. But in such a case the only realistic hope to be successful is to remove
    at least most of the pay 2 win and grind/annoyance factors. Make excellent content for a reasonable fee. Simple old fashioned business practices that have stood the test of time.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by afuturestrader View Post
    In fact this has already started. Notice the movement toward harder content that movtivates/practically requires grouping up.
    What solo content in u23 requires grouping up? They literally made solo versions of the new instances so you don't have to group to complete them.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by mkcraft27 View Post
    What solo content in u23 requires grouping up? They literally made solo versions of the new instances so you don't have to group to complete them.
    First of all I said "movtivates/practically requires grouping up". That is not quite the same thing as what you stated.

    But in any case perhaps you have not had the opportunity to read the Devs write how a) they went overboard with difficulty and tuned it down a notch and b) the lower levels were
    purposely made more difficult. Did you notice for example the many, many complaints that were made about the Mordor difficulty? Have you played the lower levels recently?

    It is fair to say that the movement is towards more difficult content - even if not at all levels and in all cases.

    Some applaud any increase in difficulty, some dislike it. I have family members all across the spectrum.

    But making landscape anything but easily doable for the lowest common denominator is objectively a very bad business decision. LOTRO is a niche game that needs all the Lord of the Ring
    fans it can attract. If landscape meets the difficulty level that the hard core players demand, the game as a business will be in very serious trouble.

    Make the T2 and T3 content difficult. Landscape (without a T2 version) needs to remain accessible or the casuals have no where to go but out the door.

 

 
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