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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    What did you do Vastin?

    Ok for crying out loud what ever you did, undo it. You have broken things across the game, nerfed ba traps, defiler heals, guard skills and hunter press onward power return. Press Onward Power applied a heal to Ughidontknow restoring 165 points to Power. 25.7% of my 7k power? The math is majorly screwed up.
    Captain-General Ughidontknow...Tripso rnk 6 burg...Izeatzfreepz rnk 8 warg....Yells rnk 10 warleader
    Leader of The Hobbit Syndicate
    "Everyone wants to be the hero and no one wants to be support"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    25
    It really is just all over the place at the moment. Really killing my motivation to play knowing I'm just steamrolling content at mid level and purposefully having to down-gear my character to give any semblance of challenge or variety to the gameplay. I've just been introduced to the legendary item system, but there's really no reason to invest any time into it because monsters already die in 4-5 hits, so why would I want to further optimize my character to make the game more trivial? Crafting is also really screwed up, as a lot of the items have not been scaled properly and quest rewards are providing almost 3x the amount of stats in most cases. The game was insultingly easy to play before U23, but you can literally pull 6 same level enemies without any thought given to optimizing your stats, using food items or using more than 2-3 different abilities and your health will barely move during the fight. Not sure why such fundamental aspects of the game were so hastily balanced, but I really hope these changes are reverted or heavily adjusted soon.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    100
    OTOH, my level 22 mini was finishing off the Bree brigand slayer deed in Ost Baranor. It took three to five hits to a level 7 brigand to defeat it. The balance in this game is so out of whack.

  4. #4
    It doesn't bode well for a November release of the new server does it.... at least I hope they don't open it in this state !!
    ----A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything----

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    376
    Not to mention theyve reverted the mob buff of u23.1, at least in moria instances, they now dont hit anything pretty much.. Watcher with 6 entire rows of corruptions which equal 3000+% dmg, and he still does not hit higher than 2.4k

    Wednesday's patch is a disaster, they've done something wrong with some coding, as the re-nerf wasn't in the patch notes, so possibly a mistake?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    123
    This whole mess is such an oversight from devs who don't seem to play the game (at cap level anyway)

    We didn't really need our Empowered bauble of nevergoingtousethisrubbish's 'scaled' to lvl...

    why they didn't just add some new items to the new content and just leave everything else alone is beyond me..but now, when something is 'fixed' it makes something else somewhere else a whole lot worse.. and now they want to send us back to where the problems are? I have also nearly given up..I never thought i'd say it

    you've got me by a thread SSG..

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Middle-earth
    Posts
    2,256

    Lightbulb

    I have now bugged this along with some other threads via the correct bug report form.

    https://help.standingstonegames.com/...s/requests/new

    I have tried to describe it all as detailed as possible and refered to this thread and a few other threads.

    Let's hope this will be looked into along with all the other weird stat things happening after the last update. It would be helpful if more people use the form and fill it in to file the bugs.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Frace View Post
    OTOH, my level 22 mini was finishing off the Bree brigand slayer deed in Ost Baranor. It took three to five hits to a level 7 brigand to defeat it. The balance in this game is so out of whack.
    o_0

    0_o

    That is more than a bit extreme.
    The company had JUST attracted a bunch of new famers off reddit etc with the new progression server announcement.
    Those gamers have been recommended to check the game out.
    I saw a cappy 17 hack at a bree-land boar, 5-6 skills before I got bored and walked away.

  9. #9
    Xolla;Tishina\Arkenstone

  10. #10
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    Jul 2009
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    Oklahoma
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    1,366
    Quote Originally Posted by Siddharta View Post
    I don't particularly think they care at this juncture. Idk it's out of control. U23 is going to go down as worse than RoR launch. This is a disaster.
    Captain-General Ughidontknow...Tripso rnk 6 burg...Izeatzfreepz rnk 8 warg....Yells rnk 10 warleader
    Leader of The Hobbit Syndicate
    "Everyone wants to be the hero and no one wants to be support"

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    673
    I'll add my voice on this...

    Please SSG stop screwing around with things you dont seem to understand. It's a mess all over the place.

    Instead of trying to develop your legendary server, fix your main game first. There are major errors with stats, skills, etc everywhere i look. Geez, fix them asap.
    Thorgull lvl 105 Champion - Malendar lvl 115 Warden - Estelldion lvl 101 LoreMaster - Ballduin lvl 36 Runekeeper - Nharduil lvl 17 Minstrel All on Evernight

    Malenborn - Warden & Athanandor - Hunter on Crickhollow (Casual Wanderers)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    293

    Post

    We're attempting to tie a huge number (many thousands) of older progressions in the game into a core set of progressions that can manage them all. This tie in is being handled formulaically, and there was a major bug introduced to one of the core formula references a little while back that caused an number of these older progressions to go off kilter.

    Ultimately we need to actually GET RID OF most of these thousands of old value sets, because they are what make it nearly impossible to maintain and update the game systems and they are completely unnecessary, but in the meantime the shift to at least make them manageable is proving to be a steep climb.

    Statistically, most of our early game has been trivial for years now, as none of our old content even remotely kept up with the skill and trait power creep that inevitably defines MMO development - it was simply impossible to re-balance the early game to react to changes that rolled backwards through the game - so I'm hoping another week or two of broken-ness won't be too painful. <sigh>

    -Vastin

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    We're attempting to tie a huge number (many thousands) of older progressions in the game into a core set of progressions that can manage them all. This tie in is being handled formulaically, and there was a major bug introduced to one of the core formula references a little while back that caused an number of these older progressions to go off kilter.

    Ultimately we need to actually GET RID OF most of these thousands of old value sets, because they are what make it nearly impossible to maintain and update the game systems and they are completely unnecessary, but in the meantime the shift to at least make them manageable is proving to be a steep climb.

    Statistically, most of our early game has been trivial for years now, as none of our old content even remotely kept up with the skill and trait power creep that inevitably defines MMO development - it was simply impossible to re-balance the early game to react to changes that rolled backwards through the game - so I'm hoping another week or two of broken-ness won't be too painful. <sigh>

    -Vastin

    In general that is a good idea and that you wanna get rid of outdated data.
    The Problem is:you try to fix 1 topic, break 5 different who are conected to even more.
    Its kinda really sad and i kinda doubt we will see everything fixed even long term……..

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,327
    We do appreciate that you're working on overhauling the game, Vastin. We just wish there was more quality control work being done prior to release rather than unleashing the changes on an unsuspecting populace and crossing your fingers. Glad you're communicating and acknowledging the issues though. In the end, it's just pixels. Hoping there's a clear blue sky on the other end of these problems!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
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    10,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    We're attempting to tie a huge number (many thousands) of older progressions in the game into a core set of progressions that can manage them all. This tie in is being handled formulaically, and there was a major bug introduced to one of the core formula references a little while back that caused an number of these older progressions to go off kilter.

    Ultimately we need to actually GET RID OF most of these thousands of old value sets, because they are what make it nearly impossible to maintain and update the game systems and they are completely unnecessary, but in the meantime the shift to at least make them manageable is proving to be a steep climb.

    Statistically, most of our early game has been trivial for years now, as none of our old content even remotely kept up with the skill and trait power creep that inevitably defines MMO development - it was simply impossible to re-balance the early game to react to changes that rolled backwards through the game - so I'm hoping another week or two of broken-ness won't be too painful. <sigh>

    -Vastin
    But it's not only made some things trivial, it's also made some things way too hard. Session plays are causing major issues for players, as are some solo instances in old general and Epic lines. Instance clusters such as Erebor and Pelennor are much harder now, than they were at the time of their release, and out of reach to some players. I fully understand the requirement of emptying a room and sweeping off the dust before you can slowly put it back together, by painting it, adding flooring, bringing back furniture etc, but this sort of thing should be done in the background, and people don't need to go back into it until most of the work is done.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  16. #16
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    Jan 2017
    Posts
    293

    Post

    Not gonna lie, it's been a roller coaster on my end too. On the one hand I am now finally getting the ability to really rewire and maintain a lot of the game systems in ways that have simply never been possible with LOTRO before, which is exhilarating.

    On the flip side, we keep hitting nasty errors and wrinkles that need to be worked out, and exposing ancient data that is just.... gross.

    It's a lot like being a plumber in an older house, and trying to bring it up to modern codes, I suppose.

    The session play thing should be fixed for next patch. If you encounter other specific scaling instance issues, bug em and we'll see what went awry.

    In particular I suspect you'll see some changes in the ratio of enemy direct damage vs. DoT damage in the next patch, and we may need to retune some of those. Generally speaking modern content shouldn't be affected, but some older content or PvMP may be.

    -Vastin

  17. #17
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    Nov 2012
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    Wales, United Kingdom
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Not gonna lie, it's been a roller coaster on my end too. On the one hand I am now finally getting the ability to really rewire and maintain a lot of the game systems in ways that have simply never been possible with LOTRO before, which is exhilarating.

    On the flip side, we keep hitting nasty errors and wrinkles that need to be worked out, and exposing ancient data that is just.... gross.

    It's a lot like being a plumber in an older house, and trying to bring it up to modern codes, I suppose.

    The session play thing should be fixed for next patch. If you encounter other specific scaling instance issues, bug em and we'll see what went awry.

    In particular I suspect you'll see some changes in the ratio of enemy direct damage vs. DoT damage in the next patch, and we may need to retune some of those. Generally speaking modern content shouldn't be affected, but some older content or PvMP may be.

    -Vastin
    Is there really any point in bugging it though? You'll receive a report to say that x scaled instance is harder than it should be (or was at it's release), then you'll have the players that like insane difficulty saying, "nope, we like it that way".

    I get it that you're great at your job, but there is no magic wand. You can't keep everyone happy, and that's the problem, who do you listen to in that scenario?
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Not gonna lie, it's been a roller coaster on my end too. On the one hand I am now finally getting the ability to really rewire and maintain a lot of the game systems in ways that have simply never been possible with LOTRO before, which is exhilarating.

    On the flip side, we keep hitting nasty errors and wrinkles that need to be worked out, and exposing ancient data that is just.... gross.

    It's a lot like being a plumber in an older house, and trying to bring it up to modern codes, I suppose.

    The session play thing should be fixed for next patch. If you encounter other specific scaling instance issues, bug em and we'll see what went awry.

    In particular I suspect you'll see some changes in the ratio of enemy direct damage vs. DoT damage in the next patch, and we may need to retune some of those. Generally speaking modern content shouldn't be affected, but some older content or PvMP may be.

    -Vastin
    Really appreciate your work Vastin, but i hope you are not doing all this balancing/tweaking alone.
    Gertes

  19. #19
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    May 2018
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    325
    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    ...but i hope you are not doing all this balancing/tweaking alone.
    This has been my assumption for awhile now. I think the evidence speaks for itself. Nothing against him personally, but he is clearly overwhelmed.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    3 Harrow Rd., Bamborings, Shire
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    1,317
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    We're attempting to tie a huge number (many thousands) of older progressions in the game into a core set of progressions that can manage them all. This tie in is being handled formulaically, and there was a major bug introduced to one of the core formula references a little while back that caused an number of these older progressions to go off kilter.

    Ultimately we need to actually GET RID OF most of these thousands of old value sets, because they are what make it nearly impossible to maintain and update the game systems and they are completely unnecessary, but in the meantime the shift to at least make them manageable is proving to be a steep climb.

    Statistically, most of our early game has been trivial for years now, as none of our old content even remotely kept up with the skill and trait power creep that inevitably defines MMO development - it was simply impossible to re-balance the early game to react to changes that rolled backwards through the game - so I'm hoping another week or two of broken-ness won't be too painful. <sigh>

    -Vastin
    I am honestly very very glad that you're doing this, even if it is a little less "ripping off the bandaid" and more "ripping out the rotten guts"
    Landroval - The Council of the Secret Fire Friendly, Casual, Mature, and always seeking more!
    .
    Musings on LOTRO and other games: www.killtenrats.com

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Not gonna lie, it's been a roller coaster on my end too. On the one hand I am now finally getting the ability to really rewire and maintain a lot of the game systems in ways that have simply never been possible with LOTRO before, which is exhilarating.

    On the flip side, we keep hitting nasty errors and wrinkles that need to be worked out, and exposing ancient data that is just.... gross.

    It's a lot like being a plumber in an older house, and trying to bring it up to modern codes, I suppose.

    The session play thing should be fixed for next patch. If you encounter other specific scaling instance issues, bug em and we'll see what went awry.

    In particular I suspect you'll see some changes in the ratio of enemy direct damage vs. DoT damage in the next patch, and we may need to retune some of those. Generally speaking modern content shouldn't be affected, but some older content or PvMP may be.

    -Vastin
    You really need to get this sorted and properly tested before launching legendary servers.....

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    2,873
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Not gonna lie, it's been a roller coaster on my end too. On the one hand I am now finally getting the ability to really rewire and maintain a lot of the game systems in ways that have simply never been possible with LOTRO before, which is exhilarating.

    On the flip side, we keep hitting nasty errors and wrinkles that need to be worked out, and exposing ancient data that is just.... gross.

    It's a lot like being a plumber in an older house, and trying to bring it up to modern codes, I suppose.

    The session play thing should be fixed for next patch. If you encounter other specific scaling instance issues, bug em and we'll see what went awry.

    In particular I suspect you'll see some changes in the ratio of enemy direct damage vs. DoT damage in the next patch, and we may need to retune some of those. Generally speaking modern content shouldn't be affected, but some older content or PvMP may be.

    -Vastin
    Thank you so much for coming to the forums to explain what's going on

    When we know what is happening and that things will be fixed, it is a lot easier to be patient and understanding since we won't feel as worried

    I'm happy that the code is getting updated/reworked, that means that LOTRO will be around longer, right? =)

    I noticed the lowest levels are so weak that defeating monsters takes very long. It's absolutely not difficult, it's just that it's boring to stand still that long for every monster while you click a button and waiting for it to fall over Will this change as well when the code updating is done?




    If only someone would come talk to us about the avatar update bugs too, we've been waiting for over a year for male elves to be fixed, and the silence have been disheartening. For all we know they might have been left behind to be ignored forever
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,599
    I have a level 23 crafter hunter who accidentally made a few levels while crafting.
    It is still in intro gear.

    It had an amusing surprise at the party tree.
    Tabbed to a shrew (whatever level those might be) and autoattacked.
    That shrew took seven hits to die. Only 7 since I had a big hit last
    scored a devastating hit with a ranged attack on the Biting Shrew for 26 Common damage to Morale

    Every skill use on hunter seems to be tied to main hand damage, even the traps.

    Noting this because people in global chat still tell people that they can use the intro weapons through all of Bree-land.
    That they have done so at one point in the game's history only makes them into the very venerable elders of LOTRO: "In MY day you could live on $7 a week" etc

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    810
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    It's a lot like being a plumber in an older house, and trying to bring it up to modern codes, I suppose.
    -Vastin
    You know, I own an older house, and I have redone most of its plumbing myself. You know what was sorely lacking and what I installed throughout the system?
    Isolation valves. So that whenever there is further renovation or alteration, I can isolate portions of the system without having to cut off water to entire house.
    From the description and the results we have seen so far, it looks like you got a very large number of various size and shape holes, and you are trying to come up with a peg that will fit all of them.
    I also happen to be a developer, albeit working on trading platforms in finance sector, and those platforms need to support a multitude of securities and how they behave in different trading scenarios. Trying to come up with a single system that works for all cases either results in a horrid monstrosity that is a nightmare to maintain (i.e. a minor change for interest swaps maturity date calculation royally masding up corporate bond yields - sounds familiar?) Or you get a basic, bland product that cannot offer any specialized advanced features due to its uniformity.
    A single scaling system throughout is a BAD idea. The shifts in pace, periods of smooth sailing intermingled with occasional hurdles make the trip more interesting.
    Split it up by level ranges of 5-10 levels, keep the ranges isolated. Then each range can be tuned without throwing rest of game into chaos.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    You know, I own an older house, and I have redone most of its plumbing myself. You know what was sorely lacking and what I installed throughout the system?
    Isolation valves. So that whenever there is further renovation or alteration, I can isolate portions of the system without having to cut off water to entire house.
    From the description and the results we have seen so far, it looks like you got a very large number of various size and shape holes, and you are trying to come up with a peg that will fit all of them.
    I also happen to be a developer, albeit working on trading platforms in finance sector, and those platforms need to support a multitude of securities and how they behave in different trading scenarios. Trying to come up with a single system that works for all cases either results in a horrid monstrosity that is a nightmare to maintain (i.e. a minor change for interest swaps maturity date calculation royally masding up corporate bond yields - sounds familiar?) Or you get a basic, bland product that cannot offer any specialized advanced features due to its uniformity.
    A single scaling system throughout is a BAD idea. The shifts in pace, periods of smooth sailing intermingled with occasional hurdles make the trip more interesting.
    Split it up by level ranges of 5-10 levels, keep the ranges isolated. Then each range can be tuned without throwing rest of game into chaos.
    I concur, it is and has been a most terrible idea..regardless of the good intentions behind it..and you know what they say about those..
    I appreciate that somebody is having to do all of this work etc. But why? I feel like al of this nonsense is being done for the legendary server. And if you can do all of this fancy coding, why can't you take out trait trees?

    This all feels to me to be going in the complete opposite direction of what people actually wanted.

 

 
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