We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 1 of 16 1 2 3 4 5 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 382

Thread: Beorning Revamp

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    301

    Post Beorning Revamp

    Hey Folks, Vastin here.

    Now that the main game balance is settling down a bit and we're back into nip & tuck on that side, I can get to work on Beornings properly.

    Obviously the class is going to get a broad normalization pass, which shouldn't affect it too significantly except to make it easier to balance and modify. That work is already mostly done and in my back pocket at this point.

    As for what I'm going to change about the class - the answer is, probably not a huge amount. Beornings are fairly effective statistically speaking. Their DPS tends to be solid, if not monumental, their survivability is pretty good, and they can serve in groups as fairly effective members. They don't generally stand out of the crowd in any one way, but being something of a hybrid class that's sort of to be expected.

    So my main focus is going to be QoL improvements - making the class play more smoothly, fixing up outdated or lame skills, and trying to make them generally more fun to play. For some value of the word 'fun'.

    If anyone would like to point out any particularly glaring statistical issues or QoL problems that are harder to notice, like bad animation hitches or the like, feel free to chime in.

    -Vastin

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Hey Folks, Vastin here.

    Now that the main game balance is settling down a bit and we're back into nip & tuck on that side, I can get to work on Beornings properly.

    Obviously the class is going to get a broad normalization pass, which shouldn't affect it too significantly except to make it easier to balance and modify. That work is already mostly done and in my back pocket at this point.

    As for what I'm going to change about the class - the answer is, probably not a huge amount. Beornings are fairly effective statistically speaking. Their DPS tends to be solid, if not monumental, their survivability is pretty good, and they can serve in groups as fairly effective members. They don't generally stand out of the crowd in any one way, but being something of a hybrid class that's sort of to be expected.

    So my main focus is going to be QoL improvements - making the class play more smoothly, fixing up outdated or lame skills, and trying to make them generally more fun to play. For some value of the word 'fun'.

    If anyone would like to point out any particularly glaring statistical issues or QoL problems that are harder to notice, like bad animation hitches or the like, feel free to chime in.

    -Vastin
    hard to know what you're specifically looking for but top of my list is rez bug. sometimes cant rez people. also, if we want to rez out of combat we have to swap traitlines in order to get a shorter rez cd. would be nice to have a separate ooc rex on short cd.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Hey Folks, Vastin here.

    Now that the main game balance is settling down a bit and we're back into nip & tuck on that side, I can get to work on Beornings properly.

    Obviously the class is going to get a broad normalization pass, which shouldn't affect it too significantly except to make it easier to balance and modify. That work is already mostly done and in my back pocket at this point.

    As for what I'm going to change about the class - the answer is, probably not a huge amount. Beornings are fairly effective statistically speaking. Their DPS tends to be solid, if not monumental, their survivability is pretty good, and they can serve in groups as fairly effective members. They don't generally stand out of the crowd in any one way, but being something of a hybrid class that's sort of to be expected.

    So my main focus is going to be QoL improvements - making the class play more smoothly, fixing up outdated or lame skills, and trying to make them generally more fun to play. For some value of the word 'fun'.

    If anyone would like to point out any particularly glaring statistical issues or QoL problems that are harder to notice, like bad animation hitches or the like, feel free to chime in.

    -Vastin

    Without ever having played a beorning i can say: Their dps is terrible.
    Together with red captain(what is a support class) it does the lowest st dps.
    I did quite a few T2C/T3 instances in the last years even on my redline Minstrel.
    I never saw anyone including a dps beorning.

    Quite sure beornings could use a 50% dps boost at least!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    743
    Hey vastin! Here are a few suggestions from an awesome forum poster on some things. https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ng-Trait-Trees
    Other than that the main problem is as you stated, bears don't have a defining role. Which may be ok to you it's not ok anywhere else. Bears are the third best healer in the game, no where near the dps spectrum (bieng about 3 worst I think) and also bieng the second worst tanks in the game.
    This is not an ok place to leave bears and start "QoL" improvments. ( another thread about improvments needed https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ighlight=beorn)
    I'm looking for more links as we speak but to put it short

    Bears are not very good healers, so no group spot there (maybe rarely if someones desperate)
    Bears are not good at dps so no group spot there
    And bears are really bad at tanking again no group spots there.

    More links
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...highlight=Bear
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...alance-(maybe)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    370
    Quote Originally Posted by Fraushgrish2 View Post
    Hey vastin! Here are a few suggestions from an awesome forum poster on some things. https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ng-Trait-Trees
    Other than that the main problem is as you stated, bears don't have a defining role. Which may be ok to you it's not ok anywhere else. Bears are the third best healer in the game, no where near the dps spectrum (bieng about 3 worst I think) and also bieng the second worst tanks in the game.
    This is not an ok place to leave bears and start "QoL" improvments. ( another thread about improvments needed https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ighlight=beorn)
    I'm looking for more links as we speak but to put it short

    Bears are not very good healers, so no group spot there (maybe rarely if someones desperate)
    Bears are not good at dps so no group spot there
    And bears are really bad at tanking again no group spots there.

    More links
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...highlight=Bear
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...alance-(maybe)
    I must stronly disagree with heal claims here. Beorning as healer is in qwuite good spot.

    Beorning DPS is in very bad spot.

    Beorning tanking is in bad spot because no block, so it's basicly only good for kiting.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    505
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Hey Folks, Vastin here.

    Now that the main game balance is settling down a bit and we're back into nip & tuck on that side, I can get to work on Beornings properly.

    Obviously the class is going to get a broad normalization pass, which shouldn't affect it too significantly except to make it easier to balance and modify. That work is already mostly done and in my back pocket at this point.

    As for what I'm going to change about the class - the answer is, probably not a huge amount. Beornings are fairly effective statistically speaking. Their DPS tends to be solid, if not monumental, their survivability is pretty good, and they can serve in groups as fairly effective members. They don't generally stand out of the crowd in any one way, but being something of a hybrid class that's sort of to be expected.

    So my main focus is going to be QoL improvements - making the class play more smoothly, fixing up outdated or lame skills, and trying to make them generally more fun to play. For some value of the word 'fun'.

    If anyone would like to point out any particularly glaring statistical issues or QoL problems that are harder to notice, like bad animation hitches or the like, feel free to chime in.

    -Vastin
    Hi Vastin!

    I like to see the beorning will get some love I'm not in the endgame with my beorning (most of the time I'm playing with my captain) but I would like to see:

    - different bear style oder types for every tree (color oder other changes)
    - updated bear graphics (more crisp)
    - I heard about a bug: the bear form does not change into human form again (in some situations). Can't confirm that.
    - the same amount of legacies for LIs like all other classes have (I heard they have only 6?)
    - an official Rift of Nûrz Ghâshu set (especially for the new legendary servers)
    - a change of "striking an enemy from behind will heal you" - I think, advantages from different fighting position in a MMO are outdated and complicated, but that's only my opinion
    - a travel skill for bear form (which is as fast as a mount)
    - more honey and bees!


    My main character isn't a beorning, so I only made a couple of suggestions I would like to see. I can imagine a lot of other people here in the forums with much better suggestions for balancing, fun, etc. So let it begin!

    Th

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    743
    Quote Originally Posted by JiiPee View Post
    I must stronly disagree with heal claims here. Beorning as healer is in qwuite good spot.

    Beorning DPS is in very bad spot.

    Beorning tanking is in bad spot because no block, so it's basicly only good for kiting.
    Your healing is worst in the game (if you count revealing mark as healing) I don't see a point in ever taking a bear healer unless I'm desperate.
    I'm not saying their healing needs a massive overhaul just a few new legacies on their LI's. Also the way beorning heals react with tactical healing rating should be fixed.

    Btw vastin bear dps is about 20-25k st, rk and hunter dps is 60-70k

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Fraushgrish2 View Post

    Bears are not very good healers, so no group spot there (maybe rarely if someones desperate)
    Bears are actually really good healers (after the mini nerf beo was aoe heal situations the best healer and with u23 he seems strong over all). He can take the main heal spot (dont know about thikil t3, but every thing else is easy healable with beo)
    + he gives awesome support (massive -outgoing damge debuffs and damage support)
    The only thing weird with Beo heal is, that he dont seem to scale well with outgoing healing/Tactical mastery/tactical healing relics.
    Some skills and hot's get just minor number increases when putting the tactical heal rune on.

    Hearten could need a good heal increase (mostly the heal over tome part of it)

    But overall yellow needs besides bug fixes no major buff (if you over buff yellow bear he will be to op, his heal + support ability's are already strong)

    Red Beo also provides very good group support, but his damage is indeed not that great

    No commend on tank beo^^
    If you want to contact me, pls don't write me a Private Message on the Forum, the chance that I read them is low.
    The best way is via Discord:
    Gertes#5389

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    301

    Post

    I think my impression of Beorning DPS based on their ability to maul their way through landscape camps in brisk order. I suspect that's due to them having some decent burst and generally short cooldowns, but no real mechanisms for boosting their DPS into a strong sustain cycle for taking on bosses so I'll think about that.

    Also regardless of their general healing, their self heal is exceedingly powerful, which makes most landscape feel too easy even if you are not killing quite as fast, that may have to be addressed if their DPS is improved.

    -Vastin

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Trøndelag, Norway
    Posts
    9
    Good to hear the balance is finally coming. I had hoped for substantial changes, but I suppose that is out of the question.
    One reason being is that their DPS is solid in the early and mid levels, but borderline underperforming at level cap. Same applies with blue line. Healing is at a good spot though.

    Concerning the QoL aspects:

    - The sound of the man-form abilities could be more realistic and less 'empty'. For instance the Expose skill sounds like two missing hits, while it used to sound different and the animation used to be smoother.
    - Animations in general are clunky and slow and need an overhaul.
    - Not a QoL, but more (and substantial) legacies would be nice.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    743
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post


    Also regardless of their general healing, their self heal is exceedingly powerful, which makes most landscape feel too easy even if you are not killing quite as fast, that may have to be addressed if their DPS is improved.

    -Vastin
    100% agree with that hearten in red line is broken and the trait it self should just be removed, maybe put it in blue line?

    Regarding bear healing, many bears seem to think their dps is on par now but thats simply not the case, when vastin improved tactical healing on LI's all healers got a massive buff. So the buffs that you felt with u23, every class felt that.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    312
    Quote Originally Posted by Fraushgrish2 View Post
    Your healing is worst in the game (if you count revealing mark as healing) I don't see a point in ever taking a bear healer unless I'm desperate.
    I'm not saying their healing needs a massive overhaul just a few new legacies on their LI's. Also the way beorning heals react with tactical healing rating should be fixed.

    Btw vastin bear dps is about 20-25k st, rk and hunter dps is 60-70k
    Can't tell if this is serious or another troll post from a known troll. Beorning heals are extremely good now, arguably the best healing class in group, better than most minstrels. The only thing that dissuades people from thinking so is the fact that many Beorning players are not good, and gives the class a bad impression.

    Beorning rez has been bugged and won't activate on target, that is one of the main reason why people don't like them in the healing role. But the magnitude of their heals is very good in the recent updates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post

    As for what I'm going to change about the class - the answer is, probably not a huge amount. Beornings are fairly effective statistically speaking. Their DPS tends to be solid, if not monumental, their survivability is pretty good, and they can serve in groups as fairly effective members. They don't generally stand out of the crowd in any one way, but being something of a hybrid class that's sort of to be expected.

    So my main focus is going to be QoL improvements - making the class play more smoothly, fixing up outdated or lame skills, and trying to make them generally more fun to play. For some value of the word 'fun'.

    If anyone would like to point out any particularly glaring statistical issues or QoL problems that are harder to notice, like bad animation hitches or the like, feel free to chime in.
    Beorning DPS is arguably the WORST out of all of the DPS classes in the game. Even the best beorning player in the world would struggle to compete in DPS numbers against a mediocre Champion, Warden, Burglar, Hunter, RK etc. The claim that it is "solid", nay "monumental", is far from the truth. In a group, a DPS Beorning is considered dead weight.

    In landscape content, I'm sure that Beornings are excellent, just like every other class. BUT in dungeon content, it's a completely different story as many people have already said already.

    As far as tanking beornings go, I've not seen any successful tanking bears ever so that should be self explanatory if you are wondering about it's viability in tank spec.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    743
    Quote Originally Posted by xxSniperxx View Post
    Can't tell if this is serious or another troll post from a known troll. Beorning heals are extremely good now, arguably the best healing class in group, better than most minstrels. The only thing that dissuades people from thinking so is the fact that many Beorning players are not good, and gives the class a bad impression.



    .
    If yall think healing is fine, fine I wont fight it \0/

  14. #14
    here's my experience on playing bear in pvp/pve/t2c:

    redline:
    -dps is really low, needs to be buffed
    -composure is kinda broken heal tbh, needs to be nerfed or changed, healing 40% of your morale every 12s is op
    -could use more dps legacies, and improve the current ones

    yellowline:
    - fix the in combat res and make it separated from out of combat res
    - add more healing legacies
    - healing is in a good spot atm, and if you decided to add more healing legacies it would be much better
    - change how sacrifice works or make it blue line only and add different trait in yellowline, it just seems useless if you are healing in a raid imo, because if you use it on any freep you're the one who will get 1 shot

    haven't played blueline at all, so not going to comment on that
    Creeps:
    Deathlyheals - R14 defiler | Deadlyline - R10 Warg
    Freeps - FullyWrecked
    #BringT2cBack

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    301

    Post

    I'll be testing some of the statistical issues you're bringing up and thinking about what tweaks to make there.

    In the meantime I'm also working on:

    - Travel Form (because, duh)
    --- Seriously, this is the main thing Beorn uses his bear form for in the books.

    - Some attack skills that instantly trigger form transitions
    --- To make the transitions feel smoother and more powerful, rather than a hiccup in your skill chain.

    - Short term shape-change buffs
    --- Short but powerful buffs triggered each time you change form, which vary based on tree.

    -Vastin

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    168
    Vastin,

    My one request is entirely minor and mediocre in the realm of needed bear changes but it sticks out to me from day one:

    I want my bear's fur colour to be the same as my Beorning's hair colour! I was super excited to roll a blonde beorning...and then get a brown bear? *Grumpy bear frown*

    I understand the "but lore! RP!" blah bah parts but...there are blonde bears IRL! (look up Kermode bear). As well as white - polar bear. And even grey ones - Glacier bears, which have a sort of silver/blue coat. Anyways, I think theres lots of options to be had there other than brown or black.

    Thanks!
    Ods

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hendersonville, TN
    Posts
    626
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    I'll be testing some of the statistical issues you're bringing up and thinking about what tweaks to make there.

    In the meantime I'm also working on:

    - Travel Form (because, duh)
    --- Seriously, this is the main thing Beorn uses his bear form for in the books.

    - Some attack skills that instantly trigger form transitions
    --- To make the transitions feel smoother and more powerful, rather than a hiccup in your skill chain.

    - Short term shape-change buffs
    --- Short but powerful buffs triggered each time you change form, which vary based on tree.

    -Vastin
    Can you add an actual bow skill? seems weird to be a class that can equip and use them but not have an actual ability for them. Minor issue in regards to everything else, I know.
    Otik - Guardian
    Anor
    BraxKedren - Twitter

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    743
    Vastin pls don't test things on landscape. It will lead to some classes bieng useless in raids cause theyre "good on landscape", like champions who get outparsed (even aoe wise) ny rk and warden.

  19. #19
    My experience is from leveling, doing landscape content (leveling and endgame), and lower difficulty endgame group content (like featured instances and other T1 runs).

    Beornings are generally pretty fun to play. Their man-form animations are pretty smooth and quicker than other classes, which I like. Sometimes bear form feels like it hitches a bit more when using skills.

    Beornings are also really strong healers at low levels. I haven't healed on them in U23 at endgame with the whole combat changes, but as a healer mine was not as effective at the 105 cap compared to low level. I also don't know if this is the case for all main healers, either.

    The red line seems to lack an interest trait/aspect in longer-term combat to me. It mainly feels like rotating between man form and bear form, using the strongest wrath-builders in man form and dumping wrath in bear form. That playstyle makes sense, but something just feels like it is missing. Perhaps this is simply a lack of DPS, but again I feel like something is missing. The way it plays now, I feel like bear is intended for burst DPS while man is intended for sustain DPS, but it feels like man form is just weak and bear form is where all the DPS is. I also want to note at low levels it feels the opposite for red line - bear form is weak while man form is strong damage.

    The blue line/tanking is pretty fun to play as well. I like the bleed system and the self-healing in bear form. Man form doesn't feel as fun, and perhaps being in bear form almost permanently in combat could be a good thing for blue line Beornings. This would likely require a bit of changes with the bear/man form skills, though.

    The bee swarm skill (I can't think of the name right now) feels like it should be a stronger DoT, or perhaps include a potent debuff to where it is worth casting.
    Execute is not really fun. In red line you can get procs and do decent damage with it without wrath, and that is the only good part to it. Otherwise it feels bad to cast 100% of the time. Maybe a huge damage increase would help (but that could break red line), or I would like to see a revamp of the skill.

    One general note is I would also like to see more bear form bleeds. Bears seem like they should cause enemies to bleed, but in practice I haven't felt like that happens to my enemies.

    These are the main things I can think of right now. For more specifics I would have to look at the trait trees and LI legacies to see if there are any other changes I'd recommend with those.

  20. #20
    please fix the bear legs! Much longer than a normal bear.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    312
    Quote Originally Posted by Fraushgrish2 View Post
    Vastin pls don't test things on landscape. It will lead to some classes bieng useless in raids cause theyre "good on landscape", like champions who get outparsed (even aoe wise) ny rk and warden.
    Agreed, that way we can avoid any false assumptions like "monumental DPS". The faster you can roll this out to Bullroarer where bear mains can test it, the better IMO.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    178
    I have played my Beorning, Beeornfree, since day one. Overall, the DPS is on the low side, esp once you get above like level 65 (low level DPS is not too bad), so higher level DPS needs fixing.

    Couple of changes could be made in the following:

    1) Give Beornings their own armor sets at various levels sets (say at 30, 50, 65, 80 and 100)

    2) Stop quest rewards/drops as agility based.... They are might based creatures. Any might based items are heavy armor which a Beornings can't wear.

    3) Fix animation changes.... Too slow when they switch. Speed up the animation.

    4) Give them longer time in bear form.... They drop out of bear form way too soon, esp when trying to tank.

    5) More options for cosmetics like hair color.... Show one color for the bearskin and a different color of the human hair, for example.

    6) Bear form should be immune to stuns, etc.

    I am sure there are other things that need to be fixed but overall, higher level DPS, and armor sets/armor might drops are the 2 biggest.
    XanThorr the Well-Met
    "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup"

    ~~Beeornfree 116 Beorning of Evernight~~Xanthorr-1 110 High Elf Hunter of Evernight
    ~~Beeornfree 98 Beorning of Gladden~~Xanaxier 105 Guardian of Gladden~~Xanthorr-1 104 Hunter of Gladden
    ~~Beeornfree 108 Beorning of Landroval
    ~~Beeornfree 60 Beorning of Arkenstone~~Xanthorr 35 High Elf Hunter of Arkenstone
    ~~Beeornfree 29 Beorning of Brandywine~~Xanthorr 30 High Elf Hunter of Brandywine
    ~~Beeornfree 29 Beorning of Crickhallow~~Xanthorr 37 High Elf Hunter of Crickhallow
    ~~Beeornfree 62 Beorning of Anor~~Xan 51 High Elf Hunter of Anor

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    178
    Quote Originally Posted by XanThorSr View Post
    I have played my Beorning, Beeornfree, since day one. Overall, the DPS is on the low side, esp once you get above like level 65 (low level DPS is not too bad), so higher level DPS needs fixing.

    Couple of changes could be made in the following:

    1) Give Beornings their own armor sets at various levels sets (say at 30, 50, 65, 80 and 100)

    2) Stop quest rewards/drops as agility based.... They are might based creatures. Any might based items are heavy armor which a Beornings can't wear.

    3) Fix animation changes.... Too slow when they switch. Speed up the animation.

    4) Give them longer time in bear form.... They drop out of bear form way too soon, esp when trying to tank.

    5) More options for cosmetics like hair color.... Show one color for the bearskin and a different color of the human hair, for example.

    6) Bear form should be immune to stuns, etc.

    I am sure there are other things that need to be fixed but overall, higher level DPS, and armor sets/armor might drops are the 2 biggest.
    Forgot one other thing, fix honey cakes to be level based food, we have the ability to make cakes but they are useless after mid levels
    XanThorr the Well-Met
    "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup"

    ~~Beeornfree 116 Beorning of Evernight~~Xanthorr-1 110 High Elf Hunter of Evernight
    ~~Beeornfree 98 Beorning of Gladden~~Xanaxier 105 Guardian of Gladden~~Xanthorr-1 104 Hunter of Gladden
    ~~Beeornfree 108 Beorning of Landroval
    ~~Beeornfree 60 Beorning of Arkenstone~~Xanthorr 35 High Elf Hunter of Arkenstone
    ~~Beeornfree 29 Beorning of Brandywine~~Xanthorr 30 High Elf Hunter of Brandywine
    ~~Beeornfree 29 Beorning of Crickhallow~~Xanthorr 37 High Elf Hunter of Crickhallow
    ~~Beeornfree 62 Beorning of Anor~~Xan 51 High Elf Hunter of Anor

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    743
    Quote Originally Posted by XanThorSr View Post
    Forgot one other thing, fix honey cakes to be level based food, we have the ability to make cakes but they are useless after mid levels
    They stack with other foods though...

  25. #25
    Can we please add more LI Legacies? Right now there are not enough to fill out a maxed out Weapon or class item in any tree. My current red-line has 3 stat legacies on the weapon and class items. While those are useful, the Beorning is hurt by the lack of viable legacies. I know there is a chain on these forums somewhere breaking down potential new Legacies.

    Even if all the bugs and DPS issues are fixed, the class will be death to play through at end game because the LI's are next to useless.

 

 
Page 1 of 16 1 2 3 4 5 11 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload