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Thread: Beorning Revamp

  1. #376
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    307
    Quote Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth View Post
    I am unfamiliar with beorning tanking. isn't the bear able to gain significant armor from bear form and morale as well? 30% of a heavy armoured bear will go a long way in making up for armor from shield. and 20% morale is nothing to scoff at. bear also gets 5 morale per vit while other heavies (not sure about guard) get 4.5 morale per vit. so they should also have a morale advantage over guards at least.

    I'm not home so I have no idea what range bear and guards bpes are in to calculate dmg reduction. nor do I recall in what order mit reduction and bpes work, or if the range of hits is the same on npcs as it is on characters ( for example, the average non crit skill on champ does 65% of tooltip max dmg.)
    Yes, beorning do get +30% armour buff in bear form and yes beorning do get morale buff on bear form. Both does have a problems. Armour buff is an issue because you cannot be on bear form all a time, so your mitigation will varies alot depending if your bear form or man form. So if your in man form wrong time.. you know what happens.
    Morale buff again have issue because it will raise your max morale, but it doesn't heal you up for that max morale boost, so healer gotta catch it up by healing. So it's not that good as you may think it is.
    Sure if we can spend lot more time in bear form, then it may work but last time when I have really tanked with beorning, you had to swap quite much so I did end up just capping phys mit no matter what form I was.

    As far as I know, beorning, guardian and warden all gets 1:5 from vitality. It's cappy and champion who gets less but they both have static morale buff in blue line to counter that. Thats why cappy and champion tanks has got highest morale pools of all tanks. Now I believe it's warden who goes highest because warden also got static % morale buff.

  2. #377
    you only need to be in manform while tanking, if you either want to heal yourself (composure overcompensates the moraleloss of bearform) or because you just used a lot of skills in bearform.
    Most bearform skills are simply not worth using. damage is tiny, debuffs are tiny, selfheal is tiny.
    So you could just as well sit there in bearform doing nothing and tank just fine and never leave bearform. Bearform has enough skills to raise wrath to sustain it, as long as you dont spam wrath-consuming skills.
    Thats boring, but it works.
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  3. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    you only need to be in manform while tanking, if you either want to heal yourself (composure overcompensates the moraleloss of bearform) or because you just used a lot of skills in bearform.
    Most bearform skills are simply not worth using. damage is tiny, debuffs are tiny, selfheal is tiny.
    So you could just as well sit there in bearform doing nothing and tank just fine and never leave bearform. Bearform has enough skills to raise wrath to sustain it, as long as you dont spam wrath-consuming skills.
    Thats boring, but it works.
    it would be more enjoyable to build not only mits but avoidance and incoming healing, through wrath use skills in bear form. probably too difficult to balance.

    or put some of them in man form but long enough duration bear need not pop out more than once a min
    Last edited by mrfigglesworth; Dec 07 2018 at 01:03 PM.

  4. #379
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia PA USA
    Posts
    429
    • Will Beornings using Wanderlust count as goats for travel in bear form within Moria?
    • Will riding speed buffs and the Journeyman Riding Trait affect Wanderlust speed?
    • Will the speed buff cut out In Combat, and will it leave you in bear form (with no wrath) or force you back into man form?

    Overall the future for Beornings seems brighter, so I'm considering starting a new Beorning to go experience the various content updates. It would be nice if Wanderlust were available earlier and perhaps gets faster at later levels so I don't end up with a horse until 75 rather than getting my first (war)horse *at* 75. It would be a nice perk for a purchased class to be your own mount earlier in the game. For comparison, here are some other ways to travel faster:

    • A new character can get a horse at Level 5 from the store and Level 20 from a quest. The average horse's speed is 162%, with a slow horse at 132% and a fast one at 168%.
    • The Journeyman Riding Trait increases all mounts for all characters on an account to 178%. (Highly Recommended)
    • Hunters get Find The Path at Level 12. It increases the fellowship's OOC speed to 115% to start and up to 130% when fully-traited into Pathfinder.
    • Wardens get Forced March at Level 14. It increases their OOC speed to 138%.

    My hope would be that a Beorning starts out with a basic Wanderlust (no later than Level 5) that's at the top end of other classes' on-foot speed and equivalent to a slow horse, 132%. Advanced Wanderlust at Level 75 (or maybe a little lower) would bump that up to a regular horse's speed bonus of 162%. Maybe a trait would give an extra little bump to match the Journeyman's Riding Trait at 178% (assuming that trait has no effect on Wanderlust).


    See Also: Run Speed on Lotro-wiki
    Last edited by camenecium; Dec 07 2018 at 03:44 PM.

  5. #380
    I'm pretty excited about these changes.

    Regarding heavy armor, it was really the only sane choice. big picture when you look at the larger game medium and might makes no sense. Itemization needs to be uniform in how stats work when you have multiple classes that use the same armor type. Maybe the original designers had the idea that they could make loot tables class specific or something. At this point in the game with a skeleton team, that wouldn't even be a viable option from a time/resource perspective.

    Tweaking the contribution of heavy stats if needed is pretty straight forward, if it ends up being needed (in yellow for example).

    Another thing in a revamp like this is you want to hold back a bit and not go too far in a direction on the first pass. Over compensating is the worst thing you can do. Block is I think a good example of this. It's entirely possible block could push bears over the top and make them too strong, and having to pull that back once it's out, would cause far more player angst then waiting to see how things pan out and then adding it in if needed.

    My issue with bears at this point is man form is just not fun to me. I think the whole concept of generate wrath in man and stack most of the interesting skills in bear is flawed. I have no bright ideas on how to easily fix that but I do know the flow just doesn't feel good.

  6. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by snacktime View Post
    My issue with bears at this point is man form is just not fun to me.
    For me it's visa versa: I do not like being in Bear form and I strongly belive that at least Yellow (Healing) line should Man form mostly with a short-time burst healing cool down on a 2-3 minutes recast that turns you in to mighty healing bear.

    p.s. We need Hobbit-Beornings!

  7. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Arabani View Post
    For me it's visa versa: I do not like being in Bear form and I strongly belive that at least Yellow (Healing) line should Man form mostly with a short-time burst healing cool down on a 2-3 minutes recast that turns you in to mighty healing bear.

    p.s. We need Hobbit-Beornings!

    That's not a bad idea given what we have to work with.

    I think what makes it not fun for me is that I look at wrath as an energy mechanic. Like frenzy and even warden gambits. Champ and warden rotations are such that I have to make decisions every second as I'm playing and the cycle is much shorter. With beorning the energy takes a long time to build and the skill rotation for building is at least to me too boring. I find myself optimizing it more by switching forms more often so I can use stuff off CD in each shape as efficiently as possible. But that's kind of annoying due to the animation delays.

  8. #383
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia PA USA
    Posts
    429
    Quote Originally Posted by snacktime View Post
    My issue with bears at this point is man form is just not fun to me.
    I think that's by design, the friction is building wrath for the pay-off of being a bear. You're encouraged to transform because the richer gameplay is in bear form.

    If I were starting over, I'd shoot for a more subtle balance where each form could be viable for one or two roles, complementing each other and being a fast form of role-switching. I could see man form being about healing and support with bear form being about tanking and damage. That feels more like the duality Beorn displays in the book. That would break from the clear roles assigned to trait lines, and it's far beyond Vastin's mandate to "do a little work" on the class, but that would be my ideal.

    I've played druids as Beornings in Neverwinter Nights since shapeshifting is one of their skills. Man form would be more like a druid, lore-master lite in LOTRO terms, but preferably not a pet class. It breaks with the concept of doing damage as a way to generate wrath to assume bear form, but I never got the feeling that Beorn's skin-changing was akin to when The Incredible Hulk transforms. Some other term could account for building "animus" from damage, control, and healing.

 

 
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