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Thread: Creep Traits

  1. #1

    Creep Traits

    Someone has an idea how to properly trait creeps now?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Bagrash View Post
    Someone has an idea how to properly trait creeps now?
    Can you provide more information like Rank, Class, playstyle to give people an idea what you’re looking for?
    ~Anaxander R9 Warden, Baranthor R5 Hunter, Skartan R2 Guardian~ Elendilmir
    ~Karukh R10 Warg, Prisonshank R6 Reaver~ Elendilmir
    **Mac User**

  3. #3
    Open map, not spar specific, r 10+ creeps and every class, cause i play everything. I actually wanna know what changed in traiting to the update before, cause its not how it was before when it comes to the % in mitigation etc.

  4. #4
    It is extremely context-specific

    In general, right now... glasscannon builds are in. 6 crit 6 mastery... no need for mits or morale unless you are doing 1v1s.


    In group v group stuff, mits are useful if your opponents don't have or don't know how to use mitigation debuffs... otherwise, stick with high DPS/HPS and burn them down.
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post
    In group v group stuff, mits are useful if your opponents don't have or don't know how to use mitigation debuffs... otherwise, stick with high DPS/HPS and burn them down.
    LOL what group v group stuff? Nobody ever leaves GV except to 1v1 at GG.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by xxSniperxx View Post
    LOL what group v group stuff? Nobody ever leaves GV except to 1v1 at GG.
    entirely hypothetical my boi
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post
    It is extremely context-specific

    In general, right now... glasscannon builds are in. 6 crit 6 mastery... no need for mits or morale unless you are doing 1v1s.


    In group v group stuff, mits are useful if your opponents don't have or don't know how to use mitigation debuffs... otherwise, stick with high DPS/HPS and burn them down.
    Haven’t done official figures but the DR on the last mastery spot was always so low it barely beat out the 1% from the Damage for P/H traits. Since fights are literally a dps race at this point with neither side having relavant Mitigations (wargs have a base of 1%) I have actually traited the 10% health in the last spot. Since now it gives a pretty substantial boost to morale and with most freeps dps#’s it provides a extra few seconds of morale they have to burn though, which allows you to burn through them as well. I think* the trade off is worth it at this point, but it would be interesting to hear from anyone who has actually ran the numbers.
    ~Anaxander R9 Warden, Baranthor R5 Hunter, Skartan R2 Guardian~ Elendilmir
    ~Karukh R10 Warg, Prisonshank R6 Reaver~ Elendilmir
    **Mac User**

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by AaronIU View Post
    Haven’t done official figures but the DR on the last mastery spot was always so low it barely beat out the 1% from the Damage for P/H traits. Since fights are literally a dps race at this point with neither side having relavant Mitigations (wargs have a base of 1%) I have actually traited the 10% health in the last spot. Since now it gives a pretty substantial boost to morale and with most freeps dps#’s it provides a extra few seconds of morale they have to burn though, which allows you to burn through them as well. I think* the trade off is worth it at this point, but it would be interesting to hear from anyone who has actually ran the numbers.
    Again, its extremely context specific, but weighing the tradeoff works like this:

    By slotting morale, you reduce the probability that you die in any given moment and thus reduce the probability of the chain of events that incur costs (such as rez useage, drop in DPS, reduced disruption, etc) happens
    By slotting DPS, you increase the probability that your opponent will die in any given moment and thus increase the probability of the chain of events that incur costs for them happens.


    Which one is better? Its impossible to tell for certain without a computational model that simulates the entirety of LOTRO PVMP...

    But we can feel out which choice by looking for common cases where each of the traiting decisions is useless compared to the other...

    for instance:
    - If you never take life-threatening damage, then defenses are useless
    - If you die, your DPS stats are worthless and you cost the group a rez
    - If you never were at high risk of dying because your healers are amazing or because you rarely got hit/had an emergency skill/etc, then slotting morale/defenses is a waste
    - If your opponent's DPS is dead, they cannot cause you harm until they are rezzed (which is more expensive on freepside), potentially making whatever defenses you have worthless.


    We can also look at how much it costs the opponent:
    - If a freep dies, the freep group must pop an expensive single-target rez ASAP on the person
    - If a creep dies, a WL can pop an AOE rez once 2-3 people are down OR you can just map back in nearby.

    The picture then becomes clearer when you define what victory is in group v group:
    Victory = opponent rezzes-per-minute is lower than opponent deaths-per-minute over time where your rezzes-per-minute exceeds your deaths-per-minute

    It costs a ton for a freep group to lose a group member as compared to creep group with multiple warleaders

    Right now, as the moors stand, glasscannon creeps don't die too easy, and if you die while in 100% glasscannon build, chances are that you were going to die in 91% glasscannon build with some morale tacked on.


    It feels like:
    The effect of the increase in killing speed from 100% DPS build > The effect of the increase in survival from 1 morale booster

    Again... highly contextual.
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

 

 

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