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  1. #1

    Thoughts on Heal rk U23

    I'm atm leveling my rk which used to be exclusively healer until lvl 100 (where I was forced to be only dps due to massively OP mini heals). So now I noticed the increase in healing output got increased by a lot in this update (significantly more than what minis received). So I was wondering how rk vs bear vs mini balance is in new t2 instances trying to heal tanks and what are the HPS numbers you're getting, cause I'm easily getting over 20k HPS single target on a captain tank and I'm only lvl 117 yet.
    Summary of what I noticed with scaling:
    Bubbles got hugely improved (20k bubbles compared to 6-8k in lvl 115).
    Direct heals nearly doubled (although HoT seem to have increased only by 40-50% though I have to confirm).
    Bombastic inspiration delay seems to be way longer than it used to (and it was looooong before) and I'm wondering if anything got touched there.
    Rousing words and Writ of Health even though buffed...still seem a bit too small (like half of what it should be).

    Opinions?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    I'm atm leveling my rk which used to be exclusively healer until lvl 100 (where I was forced to be only dps due to massively OP mini heals). So now I noticed the increase in healing output got increased by a lot in this update (significantly more than what minis received). So I was wondering how rk vs bear vs mini balance is in new t2 instances trying to heal tanks and what are the HPS numbers you're getting, cause I'm easily getting over 20k HPS single target on a captain tank and I'm only lvl 117 yet.
    Summary of what I noticed with scaling:
    Bubbles got hugely improved (20k bubbles compared to 6-8k in lvl 115).
    Direct heals nearly doubled (although HoT seem to have increased only by 40-50% though I have to confirm).
    Bombastic inspiration delay seems to be way longer than it used to (and it was looooong before) and I'm wondering if anything got touched there.
    Rousing words and Writ of Health even though buffed...still seem a bit too small (like half of what it should be).

    Opinions?
    early tests so far make me much happier to actually spend effort to perfect a healing set, i'd like to see our rune of restoration scaled properly because it feels like it hasn't scaled since about lvl 70, and it was the skill that originally made me roll a rk and put almost a year of /play into the class

    Prelude to hopes power restore is actually very noticeable now, which is nice. thumbs up.

    I'd like if they widened the area of effect of essay of exaltion and centred it on the runekeeper again. being ground targeted is an awful idea for an emergency panic button. and regularly party members can die while you're trying to find ground unhindered by objects or mobs to place it. this should have been changed back as soon as they changed it in the first place.

    mending verse feels solid again I quite like it, i'd like AoE of 3, but that's me being greedy

    rousing words channel is how we heal raids, it keeps writs on everyone, but it is so so susceptable to anything stopping it, it needs combat state immunity while channeling it, in the past when the skill was created, we had a buff that prevented the next wound every party member received, disarms tend to be wounds, and we'd put it up before the channel to stop them interrupting the channel. since then that prevention skill became scribe a new ending, which doesn't prevent disarms or potentially lethal wounds from interrupting the channel. leaving the skill that is the lynchpin to rk healing utterly vulnerable to any joe orc.

    epic of the ages is nice and smashy on the heals when it crits, and a little underwhelming when it doesn't

    given how the pace of the game has increased, i'd make writ of health tic more often or stronger on the tics, but not the initial heal. but atm it seems to be holding up to the t2 content i've tried. haven't tried t3 yet.

    happy with the bubbles. thumbs up.

    essay would like to have it's cd reduced for each HoT it consumes, but not super necessary. like the bubbles.

    fates entwined runestone, the saving grace of rk healers. fantastic, please never nerf it.
    Belolth Hisses with fury as venom drips from his maw, scorching the earth, "come manling, my brood hungers!"

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by loki84 View Post
    being ground targeted is an awful idea for an emergency panic button. and regularly party members can die while you're trying to find ground unhindered by objects or mobs to place it. this should have been changed back as soon as they changed it in the first place.
    While I do totally agree with you, I've found a work-around for this, simply double-tapping the skill drops it wherever the mouse is, I don't play zoomed out enough that the mouse is ever too far to encompass myself and the entire group, and I zoom out fairly far, so you'd have to really go some. I have all ground-targeted (awful, awful mechanic) skills bound to easy to double-tap hotkeys for this reason alone, essay is skill 1 and works just fine. Would still absolutely love to see that and the rune-stones all just spawn (even at max traited rank) on the RK.
    #15skills

  4. #4
    I would really hate to loose the ability to ground target rocks, at least when I'm running a dps build. I run purple when solo'ing and regularly handle multi-mob pulls by dropping my healing rock close to the mobs so I can peel and eat them one at time.

    A nice compromise might be to put ground targetability of all rocks into a single trait relatively high in one of the trees so you could select or reject it at will, without compromising rock stats.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mosselyn View Post
    I would really hate to loose the ability to ground target rocks, at least when I'm running a dps build. I run purple when solo'ing and regularly handle multi-mob pulls by dropping my healing rock close to the mobs so I can peel and eat them one at time.

    A nice compromise might be to put ground targetability of all rocks into a single trait relatively high in one of the trees so you could select or reject it at will, without compromising rock stats.
    What Ethrildar suggest is also the way I do it. You still have the ability to drop the rock at range, but with the right setup, you can always drop a rock pretty much at your feet with a quick double tap if you chose to do so. It saves critical seconds when you're healing a group, and don't have 2 to 3 seconds to pick a place for your rock and drop it there. I use the BevyOBars plugin to create a rock-drop button wherever I want to, and it drops the rock right under the button, with a quick double-tap, every time.
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  6. #6
    I finally got a chance to heal a couple lvl 120 3-mans on my RK this week. They were only T1, but I had more fun on my RK than I've had in years. I'm dubious I'd hold up to T3, but I feel like T2 should be easily doable.

    I have missed healing on my RK SO much the past few years. It's even worth all the darned scrolls I'm now going to have to grind to bring her healing LIs up to snuff.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mosselyn View Post
    I finally got a chance to heal a couple lvl 120 3-mans on my RK this week. They were only T1, but I had more fun on my RK than I've had in years. I'm dubious I'd hold up to T3, but I feel like T2 should be easily doable.

    I have missed healing on my RK SO much the past few years. It's even worth all the darned scrolls I'm now going to have to grind to bring her healing LIs up to snuff.
    i've healed t3 glimmering caves and t3 thikil gundu, the first was easy the second was fairly tough and requires things like loremasters

    haven't managed to find anyone willing to run t3 caverns of thrumfell on my server, mostly because it's an annoying run for most people and everyone i've spoken to seems to have some form of ptsd from it lol. but i know it's possible because i saw a youtube of an rk with lesser stats than myself healing it.
    Belolth Hisses with fury as venom drips from his maw, scorching the earth, "come manling, my brood hungers!"

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  8. #8
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    I might be a bit biased here - don't really care if I am, but I main a Runekeeper and I know some very good minstrels.

    A lot of the minstrels I've played with have healed the new instances t2/t3 on both RK and minstrel, and the majority have all said the same thing, they find it a lot easier now to keep a tank + group alive on RK than on a minstrel.

    From what I've seen so far in U23, Minstrel and RK are very much on par with eachother personally I would tip the scales further in the RKs direction. Runekeepers heals have been buffed extremely well to the point I can now crit heal the same with EftA (which also leaves a lasting splash HoT on crit) as a minstrel can with Chord or TS - mending verse and other heals have also become extremely potent. Our bubbles also now stand at 22k~

    In the majority of fights, it is not the dps who 'need' heals, they will heal themselves from a Captains Revealing Mark, that is the way it has been for the past few years, generally speaking if a dpser gets hit, they are more than likely to die because its a one-shot due to lack of mits and no amount of healing can change that. In cases where there is a lot of AoE damage now, an essay of exaltation can easily deal with that, and if things get spicy - fates entwined stone, its also not difficult to keep tier 3 WoH on the entire fellowship either.

    In my opinion what it comes down to now is the -% incoming damage and +% incoming healing that a RK can offer Vs the anthems that a minstrel can offer - if a fight is less than 3 minutes, great, minstrel all the way, but most boss fights in particular aren't, and this is where I think the RKs buffs become much more effective/potent because they can continuously be reapplied during the fight to the entire fellowship.

    EDIT; The best Caverns T3 runs I've done so far have actually been with a LM healer or an RK healer now this is due to a few things;

    Pro 1 of having LM: When the flames spawn mid way during the fight you can essentially ignore these because the LM can keep them perma cc'd if they're good at their class, and before you ask, no, two more don't spawn at the end - and even then they despawn once you've used the second pillar.
    Pro 2 of having LM: Debuffs.
    Con 1 of having LM: No incombat rez, would ideally need captain tank.

    Pro 1 of having RK: You can HoT up numerous stalagmites keeping multiple alive for longer thus removing the greater risk of having to huddle behind one.
    Pro 2 of having RK: When cave-ins come you can just pop essay to off-set the initial hit and just move out of the remaining cave-in hits / can also use fates entwined.
    Pro 3 of having RK: Your HoTs will still be ticking on stalagmites whilst fighting the add-wave after using the first pillar, you can fates-entwined the tank allowing you to full-focus the dpser so that they don't kill themselves from reflect - getting the flames out of the way quicker.

    Con 1 of having Minstrel: Cannot HoT up stalagmites to the extent an RK can keeping multiple alive for longer.
    Con 2 of having Minstrel: Requires A LOT of work to heal stalagmite / Tank / Dpser and self during the add-phase.
    Last edited by Hephburz-2; Nov 16 2018 at 09:41 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephburz-2 View Post
    In my opinion what it comes down to now is the -% incoming damage and +% incoming healing that a RK can offer Vs the anthems that a minstrel can offer - if a fight is less than 3 minutes, great, minstrel all the way, but most boss fights in particular aren't, and this is where I think the RKs buffs become much more effective/potent because they can continuously be reapplied during the fight to the entire fellowship.
    You forget that (depending on the fight) RK's can keep up +3% inc. crit chance on mobs almost permanently.

  10. #10
    healing RK is probably the best healing class atm but there are still some useless skills that can be buffed/op skills that need to be nerfed.

    here is my opinion on blue RK atm:

    1- mending verse is really good atm, writ of health is good but could use more buff.

    2- rousing words/EftA are so useless, epic for the ages has very long induction time and the heal is low if not crit.

    3- bubble need to be scaled more or make it % morale.... 20k is nice but compared to a 160k+ morale tank or a mob that is hitting for 30kish its low.

    4- please fix the delay on BI...the delay is really huge and makes it very annoying to use that skill.

    5- increase the CD of fates to 2-3 mins, having a -60% incoming damage skill with 1m cd is broken.

    6- Rune-sign of winter Hots need some buffs as well.
    Last edited by jomanjy; Nov 16 2018 at 11:19 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomanjy View Post
    healing RK is probably the best healing class atm but there are still some useless skill that can be buffs/op skills that need to be nerfed.

    here is my opinion on blue RK atm:

    1- mending verse is really good atm, writ of health is good but could use more buff.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by jomanjy View Post
    2- rousing words/EftA are so useless, epic for the ages has very long cd and the heal is low if not crit.
    Rousing words is useless for sure except for keeping tier3 WoH on fellowship, but don't agree with EftA especially if you use the parchments that guarantee 100% crit OR if you only use the skill when you have the -40% induction buff.

    Quote Originally Posted by jomanjy View Post
    3- bubble need to be scaled more or make it % morale.... 20k is nice but compared to a 160k+ morale tank or a mob that is hitting for 30kish its low.
    22k~ morale bubble is decent, it doesn't really help a tank a lot but its very nice for fellowship AoE damage. Especially when it gives +10% incoming healing and -10% incoming damage on top of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jomanjy View Post
    4- please fix the delay on BI...the delay is really huge and makes it very annoying to use that skill.
    Omg please.

    Quote Originally Posted by jomanjy View Post
    5- increase the CD of fates to 2-3 mins, having a -60% incoming damage skill with 1m cd is broken.
    Agreed, but this is one of rune-keepers only oh-%^& skills, 2min CD at a max.

    Quote Originally Posted by jomanjy View Post
    6- Rune-sign of winter Hots need some buffs as well.
    Perhaps increase duration / make aoe / increase HoT.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomanjy View Post
    healing RK is probably the best healing class atm but there are still some useless skills that can be buffed/op skills that need to be nerfed.

    here is my opinion on blue RK atm:

    1- mending verse is really good atm, writ of health is good but could use more buff.

    2- rousing words/EftA are so useless, epic for the ages has very long induction time and the heal is low if not crit.

    3- bubble need to be scaled more or make it % morale.... 20k is nice but compared to a 160k+ morale tank or a mob that is hitting for 30kish its low.

    4- please fix the delay on BI...the delay is really huge and makes it very annoying to use that skill.

    5- increase the CD of fates to 2-3 mins, having a -60% incoming damage skill with 1m cd is broken.

    6- Rune-sign of winter Hots need some buffs as well.
    1- agreed, only buff i'd add is increased tic rate, 4 seconds is an eternity after a spike, keep healing the same

    2- EftA is actually quite good, it's great how it is, especially with induction speed drop and +100% crit chance parchments. Rousing words heal is sub-par but great for maintaining writ, sadly for some reason when the writ is applied 5 seconds in, it doesn't add or refresh glorious foreshadowing +inc healing %. Not sure if WaI if this were fixed rousing words would be fine.

    3- bubbles are fine, I would make it 30% of recipients hp if i were to change it, that'd leave dps about the same, and make it last more than a heartbeat on the tank

    4- omg yes, i can't say how many times this delay has killed people. it's the absolute number 1 change healing rk's need

    5- No, fates entwined is integral to rk, and many fights are balanced around big hits, we don't have the sheer amount of responsive recovery to deal with a nerf to this skill and often you have to start a fight with it because the tank takes a massive initial hit that you'll want to blunt.

    6- disagree, the main point of this skill is to lower the amount of damage the tank eats, it doesn't need a HoT increase, it needs a duration increase so we can keep it up on the tank.

    7- i'm just adding this, but our rune of restoration needs to be scaled, either increase the tic rate dramatically or double or triple the heal on it.
    Belolth Hisses with fury as venom drips from his maw, scorching the earth, "come manling, my brood hungers!"

    Broodlord of Ungoliant's Hatchlings, Devourer of souls.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jomanjy View Post

    4- please fix the delay on BI...the delay is really huge and makes it very annoying to use that skill.
    YES!

    The animation and delay are really awful. A decent skill flow is what makes a class enjoyable. Maybe it could be changed to the Prelude to Hope animation for the time being until they've figured something out.

    Would be even better if they removed it and brought Calming Verse back.
    Last edited by Daenirion; Nov 16 2018 at 12:41 PM.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by loki84 View Post
    3- bubbles are fine, I would make it 30% of recipients hp if i were to change it, that'd leave dps about the same, and make it last more than a heartbeat on the tank

    5- No, fates entwined is integral to rk, and many fights are balanced around big hits, we don't have the sheer amount of responsive recovery to deal with a nerf to this skill and often you have to start a fight with it because the tank takes a massive initial hit that you'll want to blunt.

    6- disagree, the main point of this skill is to lower the amount of damage the tank eats, it doesn't need a HoT increase, it needs a duration increase so we can keep it up on the tank.
    I agree with most of your points, but fates entwined is too powerful, and if the bubble change you suggest happened to be implemented, there would absolutely be no reason to leave fates entwined as is. 33% uptime really is too much.

    Rune sign of winter is just not worth using, and still wouldn't be worth using even if it did get a duration increase, the passive damage reduction proc from just being heal traited is already up so often on the tank, and it doesn't stack. even with the throne set bonus for 21s duration it still wasn't worth using 95% of the time.
    .
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  15. #15
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    Have posted a few lists in the past but mine would be:

    1. Fix the animations/skill delays on: BI/Prelude/Rune-sign/Scribe/Fates stone -- Some are worse than others (BI...) but all of these have a horrible delay one side of them or the other and make them even less worth using.

    2. Buff skills like Rune-sign and Prelude, why would you ever use a skill with a 2-3 second animation/GCD on it that heals for absolutely nothing? Make Prelude last 60 seconds and heal numbers similar to Minstrel's SoS which absolutely puts this skill to shame, as well as being immediate...

    3. Buff the initial heal on BI, 500 morale? We have tanks that achieve 300k now, this is pathetic. -- In addition to this, if the target already has a stack of BI applied, they do not receive the initial heal at all, a bug that would need fixing if this skill were to be buffed.

    4. Buff stone healing/damage in all lines, they're an absolute joke. Also buff their morale, my healing stone has sufficient morale that it's instantly one-shot by most 120 NPCs/Creeps.

    5. Reduce EftA's induction and increase it's base healing, leave it's crit healing the same as it currently is as it's fine when it crits but incomparable to even an MV crit if it doesn't crit.

    6. Increase the radius of EftA's splash heal, 5m is worthless as this skill is primarily used on the tank, which nobody should realistically be within 5m of.

    7. Make Armour of the Elements a bit better, 3 min CD is huge for such an utterly useless skill in PVE. The 4.8k bubble is a joke, make all bubbles 30% of the target's morale.

    8. Make all bubbles 30% of the target's morale. Added bonus: You never have to worry about scaling our bubbles ever again.

    9. Mending Verse can be interrupted and goes on CD for 4 seconds, this is ridiculous for our bread & butter heal skill and is especially noticeable in the Moors where you're interrupted every other second by even a single Warg.

    10. Writ of Health should pulse every 1-2 seconds, not 4, but should still last 20 seconds. -- Reduce healing output a fair amount to account for the noticeable increase in HPS, preferably without making it redundant.

    11. Rousing Words should apply Glorious Foreshadowing.

    12. Rousing Words should be an inducted fellowship heal and should be substantially more potent.

    13. Scribe a New Ending useable on the move, PLEASE...

    14. Give us the old Calming Verse back, it rocked and a little mobile healing is sorely needed for RK, we currently have no decent heal we can use if the group is moving and someone takes a big hit and the continuous reliance on BI + WoE is tedious.

    15. People asking for nerfs to Fates, I disagree, I think 33% uptime is excellent given the utility of the skill and the lack of decent AOE utility/healing options the RK has. Essay is a panic skill and is thus not reliable, and Rousing Words is a joke other than for stacking WoH.

    16. Please pick either Disarm or Silence to be the RK's crippling "status debuff", currently we're obliterated by both. One should be a minor annoyance, the other should be a status that needs to be cleared ASAP but does not make the entire class redundant until Scribe has dug it's way through 8 other debuffs to get to that particular Disarm/Silence.

    17. The best heal an RK has right now is Self Motivation from Redline... Inductionless, fits smoothly with our primary rotational heals, restores a huge amount of morale and power, it's superior in every way to any other skill if the RK takes a hit, this is just sad.

    18. Essay should cash out the BI heal just like WoE does.

    My final suggestion is simply that Ground Targeted abilities do not require a trait point to max out, instead there'd be an additional trait in the tree which is freely obtainable (no point cost) to make each ability ground targeted. This means you can still max out the bonuses of the Fire/Lightning/Heal stone without forcing yourself to have it GTable, which I personally hate, and I know a lot of others do.
    Last edited by Ethrildar; Nov 17 2018 at 05:16 PM.
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