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  1. #1

    Why Ironfold craft with low end items is so expensive ?

    Hello,

    I've just seen that there is no more classic craft.
    Usually, for each new extension / zone I craft for each of my reroll purple armors & jewels, not best stuff but it's cheap and better than my old stuff.

    Now EVERY single piece of purple item (jewels & armor) is asking for "2 Dwarrowgleam Shards" + "Dwarrowmark / Dwarf-iron Fragment" + Lot of comp like 50 ingots....
    Moreover, you need to buy the recipe.


    Are you serious ?
    This is insane farm for classic equipment, are we supposed to have all reroll stuffed with mathom armor ?

    I don't get it : /
    Last edited by MolagBal; Oct 17 2018 at 08:02 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    464
    The Mathom armour boxes that I have received as daily hobbit gift since the last update have a different name and do not give teal armour pieces anymore, only purple. Armour stats on those purple pieces are up, but the other stats are lower than teal Mathom armour pieces that are 10 levels lower.
    From f2p to p2p: nothing here is accidental
    https://www.gdcvault.com/play/102469...g-Monetization

  3. #3
    Ok so what is the message from the game designer ?

    Something like "if you want to keep your reroll updated your need to farm like hell or buy keys ?"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    464
    Quote Originally Posted by MolagBal View Post
    Ok so what is the message from the game designer ?

    Something like "if you want to keep your reroll updated your need to farm like hell or buy keys ?"
    Isn't asking the question answering it?

    I think it's to prevent level cap characters from avoiding end game/crafting grind. I doubt anyone has stocked enough of them to fit out even a small number of alts.
    From f2p to p2p: nothing here is accidental
    https://www.gdcvault.com/play/102469...g-Monetization

  5. #5
    It is, but I wanted to write it.

    I'm so sad about this... time to keep only main character updated, good job SSG as usual.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    464
    Quote Originally Posted by MolagBal View Post
    It is, but I wanted to write it.

    I'm so sad about this... time to keep only main character updated, good job SSG as usual.
    Or play the game in an entire different way, as in 'avoiding those new grinds'.


    What strikes me hard is that when a gaming company starts with one punitive measure it can't stop and, by necessity, has to become more punitive.
    From f2p to p2p: nothing here is accidental
    https://www.gdcvault.com/play/102469...g-Monetization

  7. #7
    I will avoid it, except for my main character.

    All my rerolls will keep the lvl 115 stuff for a loooong time....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    464
    Quote Originally Posted by MolagBal View Post
    I will avoid it, except for my main character.

    All my rerolls will keep the lvl 115 stuff for a loooong time....
    Same here. Shame. I was looking forward to crafting... which your initial post was about.
    From f2p to p2p: nothing here is accidental
    https://www.gdcvault.com/play/102469...g-Monetization

  9. #9
    2 shards per item? thats completely ridiculous. I'm not yet there, but how's that supposed to work? Where do we get those many shards?
    They are not sold in the skirmcamp, are they?
    Currently, I have 2 shards, and thats after gathering roughly 400 ore and playing 5 full days of crafting instances including the quests for 2quests twice and always those "get 3 items" quests.

    Where am I supposed to get the roughly 30 shards I need if all items require two?
    Completely ridiculous!

    I'm fine with fragment and the amount of ingots. At least I can farm those. But two shards per piece? ###

    ...at least theres epic battle jewelry.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Gründer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
    Deutsche Guides für nahezu alles, was Casuals interessieren könnte, gibts hier: http://gdfv.forumo.de/guides-f24/

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    I'm fine with fragment and the amount of ingots. At least I can farm those. But two shards per piece? ###
    Fragments are the worst in my opinion.
    Shards are "farmable" doing a lot of harvest, yeah a lot, but no limit.

    Fragments you need to do repeatable quest or dungeons (depend on what kind of fragment), both are cooldown dependent so you can't farm them, or you buy them on AH.
    Moreover, new dungeons are closed at this time (--> insert your favorite trollface here <--)

    And it's only for crafting a single piece of "classic purple" stuff.... so sad.
    Last edited by MolagBal; Oct 16 2018 at 11:58 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    As always, SSG never explain this. Why in the hell scholar and cook can't craft essences? Give us realistic answer. Why you need 5-10 ingots, and in next crafting tier, for same item with same type you need 50? It have 10 time bigger stats? No. It have 10 time bigger size? No. Why you can craft burglar signal with 5 Brushed Ironfold Leathers, but all other items needs 50 Brushed Ironfold Leathers? And what next? T13 craft, when you need 100 leathers? And 3-5 shards? Why not? Because they can and they don't bother to tell you why.

  12. #12
    I'm not certain that shards will be the real bottleneck for level cap gear crafting.

    I'm 1 - 2 days from reaching kindred rep to barter recipes, plus there is a meta-quest connected to the crafting instances called Reclaiming the Grey which has a special crafting item called a Dwarrowmark as part of the rewards. I didn't try any crafting during U23 beta so I won't know for sure how important the Dwarrowmark item is to crafting until I can get some recipes and look at them. Unless someone else here already has some of the new recipes and can say what the Dwarrowmark item is (and how many are needed), it will be another day or two before I can check for myself.

    If the Reclaiming the Grey quest is the only way to collect Dwarrowmarks, that might be the real bottleneck rather than shards which can be collected from nodes. Dwarrowmarks do not appear to be bound on acquire so it should be possible to get them from non-crafters who complete the meta-quest, but the price will be anyone's guess. I'll update when I can get some recipes and look at the ingredients.
    Therina - Hobbit Guard Rongo - Hobbit Warden
    Frood - Man Minstrel Garmun - Man Captain
    Zorosi - Dwarf Champ Froodaroon - Elf Hunter
    Southern Defenders - Arkenstone (formerly Elendilmir)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GarethB View Post
    If the Reclaiming the Grey quest is the only way to collect Dwarrowmarks, that might be the real bottleneck rather than shards which can be collected from nodes.
    This is a way to get Darrowmark.
    I got another one by opening a crafting chest (about 20 chests opened and one darrowmark looted).

    It's a huge bottleneck for low end crafting stuff.

  14. #14
    After many years of playing I must say I am totally unimpressed with the DEVs on the new crafting system. No I am not going to spend cold hard cash for the junk that is in the new tier of crafting. You have made it worse with each new update. just wanted to put my 2 cents worth in. While I love Lotro SSG needs to get their heads on right

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MolagBal View Post
    This is a way to get Darrowmark.
    I got another one by opening a crafting chest (about 20 chests opened and one darrowmark looted).

    It's a huge bottleneck for low end crafting stuff.
    well... in the five days I played crafting instances, I got 3 darrowmarks.
    I then went in one T1 3man instance and got the instance version of those marks.
    I'm now at more than 500 gathered ore and 3 shards
    3 shards vs 4 fragments is far away from 8-12:4, which is required for crafting.
    With my current rate, I'd need to grind roughly 1000-1500 more ore to get the shards I'd need to use my fragments.
    So for me, the fragments are clearly at a better droprate than those shards.
    But I'm just a normal player and dont have a farming bot that gathers shards for me while I'm not on my computer...
    That part at least is impossible for fragments.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Gründer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
    Deutsche Guides für nahezu alles, was Casuals interessieren könnte, gibts hier: http://gdfv.forumo.de/guides-f24/

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    994
    I think the 50 ingot/leather requirement is a knee-jerk to the glut we had in Doomfold. A lvl 115 could go to Mornaur in Udun, circulate completely risk-free through insanely fast respawn chests and collect massive amounts of materials in no time. It is as if whoever designed Ironfold recipes thought there would be an equivalent area for Ironfold. Well, there isn't.

    Dwarrowmark: I know they get awarded for finishing the Grey meta quest(after doing 20 subquests), which amounts to about 1 mark per two days if you run all 3 craft instances and kill at least one scourge. I did not yet run adventure instances after initial solo runs, so t1 3-mans award dwarf iron fragments? In chests randomly or as meta-reward?

    Now about those rare fragments: my total for them is at 16. I did the crafts for embers quest once, had my metalsmith craft me a new shield, and have 6 more shards on me. The key is not nodes, but containers.
    Backpacks, corpses, wooden chests. I went to that camp on a hill to do Ulgoladan slayer deed yesterday. There is a single fairly fast respawning backpack that I would loot any time it popped. I got 4 shards in the time it took me to kill 90 mobs.
    I also did orc slayer, mainly hanging in front of Glimmerdeep. It has two corpse spawns, got two shards there. At least 4 shards came from Wooden chests in front of Steel Keep. I think only 2-3 out of 16 actually came from nodes, and I am explorer, harvesting both wood and ore.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    Now about those rare fragments: my total for them is at 16. I did the crafts for embers quest once, had my metalsmith craft me a new shield, and have 6 more shards on me. The key is not nodes, but containers.
    Backpacks, corpses, wooden chests. I went to that camp on a hill to do Ulgoladan slayer deed yesterday. There is a single fairly fast respawning backpack that I would loot any time it popped. I got 4 shards in the time it took me to kill 90 mobs.
    I also did orc slayer, mainly hanging in front of Glimmerdeep. It has two corpse spawns, got two shards there. At least 4 shards came from Wooden chests in front of Steel Keep. I think only 2-3 out of 16 actually came from nodes, and I am explorer, harvesting both wood and ore.
    Well... thats good to know... but imo, it shouldnt be like that...
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Gründer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  18. #18
    Ok, I have kindred rep and have bought some metalsmith and jeweller recipes and sent them to some crafting alts that are both 115.

    The metalsmith recipes I bought (heavy shield and heavy gauntlets) both need THREE shards per item.
    The jeweller recipes I bought (earring, ring and bracelet) all need TWO shards per item.
    Each recipe also requires one Dwarrowmark.

    I haven't bought recipes for any other crafts yet so I don't know if the metalsmith recipes have incorrect shard requirements compared to other crafts.
    The patch notes for U23.1 don't mention changing shard requirements for any recipes.

    The jewellery recipes and gauntlet recipes are all item-level 370 uncritted and item-level 374 critted.
    The heavy shield recipe is item-level 375 uncritted and item-level 380 critted.
    Therina - Hobbit Guard Rongo - Hobbit Warden
    Frood - Man Minstrel Garmun - Man Captain
    Zorosi - Dwarf Champ Froodaroon - Elf Hunter
    Southern Defenders - Arkenstone (formerly Elendilmir)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by GarethB View Post
    I haven't bought recipes for any other crafts yet so I don't know if the metalsmith recipes have incorrect shard requirements compared to other crafts.
    The patch notes for U23.1 don't mention changing shard requirements for any recipes.
    Hi!

    I bought the metalsmith recipe for the onehand axe a few days ago - 50 bars + 1 Dwarrowmark.
    The item-level is 370 uncritted and item-level 374 critted.

    Not sure if this was intended, but looks like the metalsmith recipes don't need any shards.

    Edit: I had no luck finding Dwarrowmarks so far - just got two for finishing the Reclaiming the Grey quest 1+2, 3 has no Dwarrowmark.
    Last edited by Berdeth; Oct 17 2018 at 06:42 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Berdeth View Post
    Hi!

    I bought the metalsmith recipe for the onehand axe a few days ago - 50 bars + 1 Dwarrowmark.
    The item-level is 370 uncritted and item-level 374 critted.

    Not sure if this was intended, but looks like the metalsmith recipes don't need any shards.

    Edit: I had no luck finding Dwarrowmarks so far - just got two for finishing the Reclaiming the Grey quest 1+2, 3 has no Dwarrowmark.
    Metalsmiths don't make weapons, they make heavy armour and shields. Weaponsmiths make weapons like swords, axes, maces, daggers, etc.

    But you picqued my interest, so I've logged back on and decided to grab one recipe each from the other crafts.

    Weaponsmith one hand sword recipe does not need any shards, just iron and a dwarrowmark, but all the weapons are common damage.

    Tailor light and medium chest piece recipes both need 3 shards and a Dwarf-Iron fragment instead of a Dwarrowmark.

    Scholar pocket item needs 2 shards and a a Dwarf-Iron fragment.

    Woodworker theorbo recipe needs wood boards and 1 shard but no other special items.

    So, with an incomplete set of recipes, it looks like armour needs 3 shards and a dwarrowmark if it's heavy armour or 3 shards and a Dwarf-iron Fragment is it's medium or light armour. Jewellery needs 2 shards but some recipes need a dwarrowmark and some recipes need a dwarf-iron fragment. Instruments only need 1 shard and Ironfold wood. I didn't buy any woodworker weapon recipes, but I suspect they will be the same as the weaponsmith recipes.

    This looks like the most inconsistent crafting tier in terms of ingredients required for recipes I can think of.

    If other people have other recipes not covered so far, I'd like to hear what they require. And if someone from SSG reads this thread, is this working as intended? Especially the jewellery recipes with some needing dwarrowmarks and others needing dwarf-iron fragments.
    Therina - Hobbit Guard Rongo - Hobbit Warden
    Frood - Man Minstrel Garmun - Man Captain
    Zorosi - Dwarf Champ Froodaroon - Elf Hunter
    Southern Defenders - Arkenstone (formerly Elendilmir)

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by GarethB View Post
    But you picqued my interest, so I've logged back on and decided to grab one recipe each from the other crafts.

    Thanks for this.

    This craft tier is a joke :x

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    994
    The recipes are pretty much all laid out in wiki now. Very inconsistent. Looks like heavy armor is all dwarrowmarks, tailor needs dwarf-iron for chest, shoulder and head pieces. Jewelry is a mix.

    Oh and 3rd reclaiming the grey gives no dwarrowmark? Huh? Is ember payout decent at least?

    Frankly, seeing how crafted stuff is mostly subpar, and how much of a grind it is, I suspect vast majority of shards will be going towards embers quests.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by GarethB View Post
    Metalsmiths don't make weapons, they make heavy armour and shields. Weaponsmiths make weapons like swords, axes, maces, daggers, etc.
    Ah yeah weaponsmith it was, sorry for that. (I should not answer while I am in a hurry )

    I personally don't have a problem with 50 bars, ... + 1 Mark or 1 Shard, but they have to change the droprate of Shards.

    I did not count the amount of ore I gathered, but it was a lot. 3-4 came from Rich Ironfold Scarn Deposites 0 from normal ones, and 2 were from boxes you get after completing a quest in the crafting instances.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post

    Oh and 3rd reclaiming the grey gives no dwarrowmark? Huh? Is ember payout decent at least?
    When I checked last time yesterday it was 500 Ember.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    The recipes are pretty much all laid out in wiki now. Very inconsistent. Looks like heavy armor is all dwarrowmarks, tailor needs dwarf-iron for chest, shoulder and head pieces. Jewelry is a mix.
    Thanks for pointing out the wiki update. A look at woodworker shows no crafted weapons at all (spears, hammers, clubs). I knew there weren't any crafted bows/crossbows from the test builds but I didn't pay much attention to the recipes during the beta testing, mostly because they weren't available in E&G for testing (I did look for them).

    It's almost as if several different devs worked on different recipes but didn't talk to each other while they were doing it.

    Looking at the tailor recipes, any crafted piece of light or medium armour that has an essence slot needs a dwarrowmark. The items that need a dwarf-iron fragment don't have an essence slot. The pattern is not repeated for heavy armour, every heavy armour recipe uses a dwarrowmark whether the item has an essence slot or not. Jeweller is inconsistent, only the necklace has a slot and it needs a dwarf-iron fragment, but some other recipes also need a dwarf iron-fragment and don't have an essence slot. The crafted pocket item has a slot and needs a dwarf-iron fragment.

    If the devs were trying to create a pattern where items with slots need one type of ingredient and items without a slot need a different type of ingredient, they didn't stick to the pattern. This complicates planning/collecting the correct ingredients to make a set of gear. There's also the topic of where to get dwarf-iron fragments from.
    Last edited by GarethB; Oct 17 2018 at 09:31 AM.
    Therina - Hobbit Guard Rongo - Hobbit Warden
    Frood - Man Minstrel Garmun - Man Captain
    Zorosi - Dwarf Champ Froodaroon - Elf Hunter
    Southern Defenders - Arkenstone (formerly Elendilmir)

 

 
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