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  1. #1
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    Issues with the Update 23 Shire landscape update

    This thread is meant to bring up issues related to the landscape update to the Shire that occurred in Update 23. There were several positive improvements made, but this thread is about errors, possible mistakes that were made, and things that maybe were not properly considered. Most of these issues will be minor (possibly very minor) cosmetic things, but some of them could potentially have a negative affect on gameplay. some of it may be purely opinionated remarks that not everyone will agree with. It will most likely be heavy with screenshot images. If you have any relevant issues that you would like to bring up, post them here.

  2. #2
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    Bywater Pool in Hobbiton-Bywater got a fair bit of reworking, but some of the changes can or might affect festival quests that happen in this area. Some of the changes appear to cover up items that are spawned during certain festivals.



    In the Summer festival quest Belongings Gone Fishing, five item spawn around the lake. Two items: the Fishing Pole and the Elevensies look like they will no longer be accessible to players, due to changes in the environment.

    Here's where they were before:





    Here is what those areas look like now:





    All but one of the fishing nets along the shore have either been removed or are now buried under the newly-reshaped ground. And the one remaining one is almost unnoticeable in the frills there now. One of those nets contained the fishing pole for that quest.

    Also, the rock that got removed from that area was a popular fishing spot during festivals. There are several quests that could require players to fish for more than ten minutes at a time and players enjoy having some dry ground from which to fish from.

    As for the elevensies, that seems to be covered up with with one of the many, many stone planters that have been added to the Shire. The amount of those that have been pasted onto the landscape is its own issues, but in this case, it looks like players won't be able to access those elevensies anymore for the quest.

    For the Farmer's Faire quest Hired Hook, players have to dig for worms and place them in a bait bucket across the bridge from the fishing stand. That area looks to have a lot more frills there now, and I can't be sure if the land itself has been reshaped. Note that there are several items that spawn here, so be sure to check that nothing is being obscured.



    Speaking of the fishing stand, there are now stone planters on either side of it. The one on the southern side might be the same spot where some festival NPCs spawn. I don't have proper before and after images, but this is another things that should be checked. Also, the planter itself has almost a quarter of it buried in the ground. I'm not sure if this is intentional or not. For some reason, LOTRO devs are very comfortable with placing objects half-embedded into the ground or other objects. In my opinion, this has never looked good and is really something that new landscaping should be helping to eliminate.

    On the northern side of the stand, the planter there is (just barely, admittedly) clipping into the fishing net that's drying there. Now, this is pure opinion on my part, but why are you so eager to dot the landscape with these planters that you would obscure current area-defining objects? This is a rustic fishing spot with a rickety little pier. If anything, your additions should enhance the established atmosphere of this place. Put more fishing supplies and things that show off what a popular fishing spot this is. Why does this area need a hundredth planter, especially at the expense of objects that are already there that help to define it?

    Last edited by ZoneTripper; Oct 10 2018 at 04:38 AM.

  3. #3
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    Behind the stable-master in Hobbiton, up by the new ...thing... with the flags on.. there are some badly clipped pieces of grass and road. Also, I still do think the flags are a bit too crowded around on the landscape, even though much better than before on the early betas. They seem to be saying "Horserace!" or "Festival!" wherever I go. Sunflowers are nice, though
    Brethwyn Bearsbane of House Breddinga [100-Guardian]
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  4. #4
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    Well, talk about boneheaded. Gondor-native blue flower bushes in the Shire, really? Complete with stone masonry bases straight from Gondorian quest hubs, really?

    Are you turning Middle Earth into a joke now, SSG? Like, it's one thing to copy-paste old game assets, and it's another thing to cluelessly dump them where they don't belong just to make a change for change's sake and sign off on quarterly reports or whatever. Do your interns even read "Lord of the Rings" anymore or aware these regions have their own histories and traditions?

    I mean, those Imloth Melui Cemenduril rose bushes in their stone masonry look SO natural in the Shire's rural rustic setting!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelir View Post
    Well, talk about boneheaded. Gondor-native blue flower bushes in the Shire, really? Complete with stone masonry bases straight from Gondorian quest hubs, really?

    Are you turning Middle Earth into a joke now, SSG? Like, it's one thing to copy-paste old game assets, and it's another thing to cluelessly dump them where they don't belong just to make a change for change's sake and sign off on quarterly reports or whatever. Do your interns even read "Lord of the Rings" anymore or aware these regions have their own histories and traditions?

    I mean, those Imloth Melui Cemenduril rose bushes in their stone masonry look SO natural in the Shire's rural rustic setting!
    I agree.

    This was one of the discussions back when the game was released. The Shire was meant to be 'off road' of the east-west road. Hidden if you didn't know where to go or look. The MD fiasco and now this.
    'Ú-damdir.' Welcome to the Fourth Age of this World - The game breaking days.
    Palenen - Elendilmir - The royal gem of Arnor - "May you 'Jingle Jangle' into the West." <- This was even messed up too.

  6. #6
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    This just looks sad. And frankly embarrassing. The Shire's plain simplicity was one of its biggest charms. Sometimes less is more.

    "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away."

    The Shire was perfect, before this update. Now it's an aberration of random frills mindlessly sprinkled like weeds all over the map.

    The simple charm is gone, welcome to a new theme park complete with random plants straight from Lossarnach (!). You'd think they would at least use local flowers for this environment like....I don't know... Rhododendron bushes from Shire Homesteads decorations vendor? Clover patches instead of random-[beep] weed frills we find all over the uninhabited wilderness?

    Covering up quest items was the icing on the cake. But did you really expect whoever did it to actually play LotrO and recognize these errors?
    Éalá Éarendel engla beorhtast,
    ofer middangeard monnum sended,
    ond sóð
    fæsta sunnan léoma,
    torht ofer tung
    las, þú tída gehwane,
    of sylfum þé symle inlíhtes!

    -
    "Leaving the game plan is a sign of panic, and panic is not in our game plan." - Chuck Noll

  7. #7
    I can certainly agree with all the above comments. Change just for the sake of change is NOT an improvement!! If you want to make cosmetic changes, add useable doors on existing buildings and give nosey Hobbits some new interiors to explore! Stop messing up my landscape and changing my navigation landmarks! It's ridiculous to get lost in an area you've run 11 or 12 characters through.



    P.S. Oh yeah, GIVE ME BACK MY FISHING ROCK!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Flaxie; Oct 09 2018 at 07:51 PM. Reason: add ps

  8. #8
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    I agree with the general sentiment of what everybody's saying here. And maybe I will get called names again like last time I spoke up, but I really don't see much sense in having the same landscape elements on every map. It is lazy work. Each area in this game had a specific look and feel to it. I wouldn't mind enhancing that look and feel, but like people have said with putting flowers from Gondor in the Shire (And I'm still not letting the rock walls in Celondim go. That used to be my favorite spot in the entire game...), it has to fit in. Maybe that means you have to create new elements, and maybe you don't have time to spare for creating them. If that's the case, I would rather the old areas just be left alone, to be honest.

  9. #9
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    I do like the smoke effect coming out of the chimneys in Hobbiton, btw. (I think that's new?) But, again with the overdoing it as they are coming out of every single one. It's okay to be subtle.
    Also, I think the one closest to the stable master is actually coming out of the air behind and to the right of the chimney, rather than the chimney, but that's just a nitpick. It caught my eye, but I didn't have enough time to sit and scrutinize it.

  10. #10
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    They added mist in Rushock bog and that looks really good at night, so +1 for that.

    Please decrease the sunflowers and blue-flower-planter things. And bushes EVERYWHERE - why are there suddenly so many bushes?? i saw some poking up out of hedges. I'm pretty sure the hobbits who take such pride in the land would not let that happen in their farms. Stuff overlaps or looks like it was just plopped anywhere. It kind of looks like someone let their child or younger sibling treat the Shire like the Sims and plop things wherever they felt like it.
    Is it festival time yet?
    Carysta Littlefoot, Landroval

  11. #11
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    Agreed with above posts. There are even bushes in the roads! And areas often used for role play events like the oak tree in the Shire housing common area are now almost covered with bushes and weeds. Not only does that impact desirability of the area for events, but looks most un-shire-like. Hobbits esteem gardeners according to the lore and they would hardly let public meeting areas get overrun like this. I do love the mist in Rushock Bog at night. But for the rest, tone it down and clean it up please. A few sunflowers, nice. Not crammed everywhere. Gondorian flowers belong in Gondor and again, even Shire flowers need to be placed with discretion. And the shrubs just look like they are taking over, most need to go imho. If you don't have the funds/people to do that, please just put it back the way it was.
    "Elan sila lumenn' omentielvo- A star shines in the hour of our meeting."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaxie View Post
    I can certainly agree with all the above comments. Change just for the sake of change is NOT an improvement!! If you want to make cosmetic changes, add useable doors on existing buildings and give nosey Hobbits some new interiors to explore! Stop messing up my landscape and changing my navigation landmarks! It's ridiculous to get lost in an area you've run 11 or 12 characters through.



    P.S. Oh yeah, GIVE ME BACK MY FISHING ROCK!!!!!!!
    Seconded, especially about the fishing rock!!!!
    "Elan sila lumenn' omentielvo- A star shines in the hour of our meeting."

  13. #13
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    as someone who knows...

    i have to say they are kind of excessive with foliage (and they are all the same)

    but its probably only easy (cheap) way how to make it look nicer.

    More terrain texture layers, newer high-quality textures and better environmental props (all tweaked per region) would cost far more
    money/time to make.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by paintpixie View Post
    I do like the smoke effect coming out of the chimneys in Hobbiton, btw. (I think that's new?) But, again with the overdoing it as they are coming out of every single one. It's okay to be subtle.
    Also, I think the one closest to the stable master is actually coming out of the air behind and to the right of the chimney, rather than the chimney, but that's just a nitpick. It caught my eye, but I didn't have enough time to sit and scrutinize it.
    It's the "wings and heads EVERYWHERE!" approach they took to Dol Amroth.
    “All that is gold does not glitter,
    Not all those who wander are lost;
    The old that is strong does not wither,
    Deep roots are not reached by the frost."

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShireDweller View Post
    It's the "wings and heads EVERYWHERE!" approach they took to Dol Amroth.
    Imagine if Dol Amroth was full of Shire sunflowers and overgrown weed frills we find all over the wilderness . At least whoever designed DA had enough sense to use Gondorian architecture...

    The Shire frills are so chaotic they even LOOK randomly placed by some computer-generated code: mindlessly sprinkled all over the map without discretion.
    Like one of those screensavers where you watch stuff sprout out of nowhere and it keeps growing and spreading like a virus.
    Like someone went out for a coffee break and left this frill-generating code running itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoneTripper View Post
    Just to illustrate... the bloody color texture of those bushes out back is even different from original landscape green background. Because those bushes were copied from elsewhere in game and just thrown in. They stick out like an infection that shouldn't even be there.

    There are still bushes and frills growing right out of paved roads (not kidding), despite Bullroarer feedback asking to revert that out-of-control chaotic placement code.

    And can't make it up... those Gondorian flower planters additions are so mindless they even clip with natural slopes of terrain they've been thrown on - resulting in laughably pathetic glitches (left pic above).

    Hey team, thanks for making the Shire look like a CHEAP pixel mashup of some facebook browser game.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielMoravek View Post
    i have to say they are kind of excessive with foliage (and they are all the same)

    but its probably only easy (cheap) way how to make it look nicer.

    More terrain texture layers, newer high-quality textures and better environmental props (all tweaked per region) would cost far more
    money/time to make.
    I wouldn't care if the game video engine could handle all that stuff, but it can not!

  17. #17
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    At the intersection just east of the stablemaster in Brockenborings - a solid ground area - it sounds like I am running through shallow water. Bug report submitted.

  18. #18
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    You can tell Sam left with Frodo. Before the update Bag End looked really pretty. Now it's been infested with Sunflowers - a plant native to North and South America. (Must have got some seeds mixed in with the seed-taters when they were imported, I guess.)

  19. #19
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    Post

    I really want to spend money on this game to support it. And then they make ridiculous changes like this, and I gotta wonder, "Is this where my money will go?" Because I don't want to fund idiotic vandalization of iconic Shire landscape, or other iconic areas that may be "next". Sure I'm still playing, but not spending a cent.

    Not only is it a change nobody asked for - Bullroarer feedback repeatedly asked to revert this Shire weed pollution, yet here it is dumped on Live servers.

    And guess what? Scenario, the dev behind those changes, told us to "calm down this is only beta and not final." Sound familiar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scenario View Post
    Stuff like this should be a reminder to everyone that, while it is exciting to look at and see new stuff on Bullroarer before it goes to the live production servers, it is possible you will also see work in progress and reactions should be tempered with that in mind (a gentle question to us of "is this behaving as intended?" first as opposed to a more... passionate reaction is much appreciated).
    Quote Originally Posted by Scenario View Post
    The note was not aimed at anyone specifically, but more as a general reminder that Bullroarer shouldn't be considered the final state of the update. We know that people are passionate about the setting, the game, and their characters - but that passion can sometimes make it hard to effectively communicate a concern. Constructive commentary and questions always help get to the heart of the matter faster.
    Here's some constructive commentary and questions for you, Scenario:

    • Why has this "work in progress," as you named it, arrive to Live servers in the same Beta condition that a full thread of feedback was asking to revert?
    • Why were obvious glitches that players pointed out in Beta not fixed before launch? (Bushes on roads, removal of frills from public spaces, removal of Gondor-specific flowers not native to the Shire)?
    • Why call out players for their "passionate reactions" when everyone's feedback in that thread clearly communicated unanimous dislike of those Shire frills/weeds/bushes?
    • Why call out players for "passionate reactions" and then COMPLETELY ignore their feedback by dumping the same glitching Beta build on Live servers?


    Here's some more constructive feedback:
    • Delete those Shire frills (bushes, reeds, weeds, do we have to name every single frill pixel by pixel or is this clear enough?)
    • Revert Shire areas to their original appearances
    • Revert Shire pond near Bywater to its original appearance: including fishing nets, fishing rock, and areas where quest items appear
    • Delete Gondorian blue roses in stone planters: This does NOT belong in the Shire and sticks out like a sore thumb, completely ruining the local ambiance
    • Players give "passionate reactions" on matters they find most urgent. The number of those reactions should be feedback in itself.
    Éalá Éarendel engla beorhtast,
    ofer middangeard monnum sended,
    ond sóð
    fæsta sunnan léoma,
    torht ofer tung
    las, þú tída gehwane,
    of sylfum þé symle inlíhtes!

    -
    "Leaving the game plan is a sign of panic, and panic is not in our game plan." - Chuck Noll

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelir View Post
    The Shire frills are so chaotic they even LOOK randomly placed by some computer-generated code: mindlessly sprinkled all over the map without discretion.
    Like one of those screensavers where you watch stuff sprout out of nowhere and it keeps growing and spreading like a virus.
    Like someone went out for a coffee break and left this frill-generating code running itself.
    I was actually thinking that as I was riding through the Shire this morning, as a way of excusing the bad placement of some things. I was thinking that it couldn't have been placed by hand. Some of it is just so ridiculous. In the Shire Homesteads, they actually have a bush right in front of the stage by the party tree. And in another area, a chair has been completely surrounded by another bush. It just looks like somebody wrote a program to "insert random spattering of bush" and off it went to do it's thing.

    And I was correct about that smoke being off. It's really going to bother me if it doesn't get fixed. But the other ones all seemed to be placed well, if a little overused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair6 View Post
    You can tell Sam left with Frodo. Before the update Bag End looked really pretty. Now it's been infested with Sunflowers - a plant native to North and South America. (Must have got some seeds mixed in with the seed-taters when they were imported, I guess.)
    Meh. Like you mentioned, potatoes are native to the Americas, and I think tobacco plants are too. I think the sunflowers look nice, although they really need somebody who can place things in a more aesthetic way. You're right. Maybe the Shire just fell to pieces after Sam left. Hehe.

  21. #21
    I believe the Scouring of The Shire is in order.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Herwegur View Post
    I really want to spend money on this game to support it. And then they make ridiculous changes like this, and I gotta wonder, "Is this where my money will go?" Because I don't want to fund idiotic vandalization of iconic Shire landscape, or other iconic areas that may be "next". Sure I'm still playing, but not spending a cent.

    Not only is it a change nobody asked for - Bullroarer feedback repeatedly asked to revert this Shire weed pollution, yet here it is dumped on Live servers.

    And guess what? Scenario, the dev behind those changes, told us to "calm down this is only beta and not final." Sound familiar?





    Here's some constructive commentary and questions for you, Scenario:

    • Why has this "work in progress," as you named it, arrive to Live servers in the same Beta condition that a full thread of feedback was asking to revert?
    • Why were obvious glitches that players pointed out in Beta not fixed before launch? (Bushes on roads, removal of frills from public spaces, removal of Gondor-specific flowers not native to the Shire)?
    • Why call out players for their "passionate reactions" when everyone's feedback in that thread clearly communicated unanimous dislike of those Shire frills/weeds/bushes?
    • Why call out players for "passionate reactions" and then COMPLETELY ignore their feedback by dumping the same glitching Beta build on Live servers?


    Here's some more constructive feedback:
    • Delete those Shire frills (bushes, reeds, weeds, do we have to name every single frill pixel by pixel or is this clear enough?)
    • Revert Shire areas to their original appearances
    • Revert Shire pond near Bywater to its original appearance: including fishing nets, fishing rock, and areas where quest items appear
    • Delete Gondorian blue roses in stone planters: This does NOT belong in the Shire and sticks out like a sore thumb, completely ruining the local ambiance
    • Players give "passionate reactions" on matters they find most urgent. The number of those reactions should be feedback in itself.
    THIS^ many times over, THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!^

  23. #23
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    The Shire-update ist weird, because some places look carefully tended to - like Littledelving, which looks like a real cozy little village now instead of a somewhat faceless starting point for hobbits never to be visited again and the Rushock Bog fog and the mist over the emerging Water, and then some portions that look automated or only half done. Also unless I'm totally unobservant (not impossible) I didn't notice the landscape borders getting lowered or the hill next to budgeford made climbable. So, maybe the overhaul of the Shire isn't done yet?

    I bugged the missing fishing rock at the fishing pond too, just think of all the hobbits that will get lost in the weeds come the next festival! Otherwise I like the new look, it looks less like a quarry pond now.
    New Order, maggots: Eat more carrots! The Dark Lord isn't pleased that none of you can see further than the end of your sword.

  24. #24
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    UGH!! My poor yard!

    My house now has a couple ugly shrubs right in the middle of the yard, one blocking my supply crate. Does the LOTRO store have any "Roundup" weed killer? If so, how many LP's is it for the biggest bottle?

  25. #25
    It also looks stupid with full grown bushes growing up from between the cobbles in roads and squares. There is even one next the the Boar Fountain in Bree!!!

 

 
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