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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    55

    Bullroarer Update 23 Preview #7: Feedback Thread

    Bullroarer has been updated to build 2300.0060.5683.4281.

    The player database has been wiped with this deployment! This was required to get accurate feedback based on the current state of the equipment in the build.

    Changes:
    • Tactical LI's have had their DPS/HPS ratings increased to keep pace with their physical counterparts and to adjust for the changes to Mastery.
    • To provide an indicator that a treasure pull is a favored pull cosmetic tokens on a favored pull from 3-->4.
    • Fix for Champion damage issue from last beta build and skill delays in red line.
    • Light Armor - Swapped in finesse on many Grey Mountains light DPS pieces.
    • Light Armor - Swapped in some tactical mastery on GM light heal pieces.
    • Off-hand/non-LI ranged weapons have had their DPS adjusted to be more in line with Legendary Weapon damage.

    Monster Play:
    • Monsterplayer consumables updated to lvl 120.
    • Monsterplayer base ratings updated to lvl 120.
    • Monsterplayer mod-stats tweaked to buff monster player health and dps a bit.
    • Freep keep mobs have had their HP reduced about 50% from their creep counterparts to adjust for lower Creep DPS output. (result of a longstanding complaint)

    Known Issues:
    • Mark of the Longbeards cap will be increased to 400, but the change did not make it into this build.
    • Might on equipment and consumables will be increased to be in line with other main stats, but the change is not in yet.
    • Scrolls of Battle Lore and Warding Lore are not providing the correct benefit.

    You can find the U23 release notes here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-Release-Notes
    Last edited by LordOfTheSquids; Oct 03 2018 at 03:21 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    567
    Honestly, everything that I wanted has happened in this update, I’m actually surprised at how well the “damage control” worked out.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    130
    OMG the changes here are fantastic. Wow. I know you guys read our feedback, and we've been hard on you this update, I know...but wow. The big changes were made.

    You have my appreciation and thanks! Im also impressed with the communication between the team and us. The Dev Tracker forum lit up with blue name responses recently and we REALLY appreciate that.

    Im back to being excited for release! LOL

    -Ods

  4. #4
    Hey now that you adjustet the HP for Keep stuff...

    Is it possible to make those 3 Delving of Frór Bosses who give the % boost on reknown a buff where Monster Players are doing like 100% more damage or something like that? because these Bosses have 4x-6x the amount of HP of Keep stuff
    Last edited by Fureo; Oct 03 2018 at 02:30 PM.

    Fureo

  5. #5
    This update almost makes me want to play Creepside again. Well done, Vastin.
    ~Rank 11 Loremaster, Arkenstone~

    ~Rank 13 Warg, Arkenstone~

  6. #6
    Please tell us your reasoning behind landscape tokens cap.
    If those tokens are like any landscape tokens before, a cap just does not make sense.
    Especially, if you can hit it, if you quest without rep accelerators, before you are kindred.

    You force people to buy things they dont want or waste questrewards. Why?

    I totally understand the reason behind the festival token cap. And I'd understand if for tokens that will buy the newest gear whenever that upgrades. But till now, new gear always required new tokens. So will those dwarf tokens allow us to buy much better gear after some dot updates and therefore invalidate anything we can buy now anyway?
    Please just dont do that. Dont release several sets of gears with every other dot update for the same tokens. That was totally awful with Mordor and wont get better if its repeated.


    And will you balance mainstats vs secondary stats slices, before u23 is released? If you dont, you simply make essences better than their slots and all gear with mainstats simply a bad choice. The sum of secondary stats a mainstat gives should always be higher than using combined slices of all those secondary stats. Otherwise, there is NO reason to slot mainstats at all.

    Example how it should be: Agility gives mastery, crit and evade. If you want all those, the best you can do is slot Agility. If you only want two or one of those, you use those essences. If one Agility essence results in 2000 mastery, 1000 crit and 1000 evade, but mastery/crit/evade essences yield 10000, then there is no point in having Agility at all. For this example, good values for mastery/crit/evade would be something like 5000/2500/2500.
    Last edited by Oelle; Oct 03 2018 at 02:31 PM.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
    Deutsche Guides für nahezu alles, was Casuals interessieren könnte, gibts hier: http://gdfv.forumo.de/guides-f24/

  7. #7

    WOW

    This is golden. I actually cried abit. THANKS.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    192

    Post

    I'm betting that lore-masters are going to be pretty OP as a result of our fix on the tactical progressions, as they were re-balanced during a period where those progressions were starting to fall behind noticeably - as a result their skills are likely over-tuned right now.

    I'll be addressing that shortly. Amuse yourself with the absurd damage numbers in the meantime if you wish.

    Edit: Actually not quite as OP as I was expecting. Pretty deadly tho. Will need to poke around some more. Lightning Storm is a beast.

    -Vastin
    Last edited by Vastin; Oct 03 2018 at 05:40 PM.

  9. #9
    I did not expected that and i am really happy to see pvp finally in a decent place again.

    THANK YOU VASTIN!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    I'm betting that lore-masters are going to be pretty OP as a result of our fix on the tactical progressions, as they were re-balanced during a period where those progressions were starting to fall behind noticeably - as a result their skills are likely over-tuned right now.

    I'll be addressing that shortly. Amuse yourself with the absurd damage numbers in the meantime if you wish.

    -Vastin
    Thats why I always wrote, you should fix tactical DPS / ILI system first and make balance changes afterwards.
    But good you kept it in mind

    With shortly... do you intend the nerf to be there before or after release of u23?



    As soon as you do a similar change for tactical healing, please keep in mind that healing power scales completely different for the available healing classes, with beornings getting near zero impact from tactical healing and minstrels+captains getting roughly double the bonus relative to runekeepers. So simply raising tactical healing with raising level will buff minstrels and captains much more than RKs and nearly not affect Beornings. Or - even better - make all healers scale the same way with tactical healing before you change anything at those values.
    Last edited by Oelle; Oct 03 2018 at 02:37 PM.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
    Deutsche Guides für nahezu alles, was Casuals interessieren könnte, gibts hier: http://gdfv.forumo.de/guides-f24/

  11. #11
    Vastin, worth noting that buffing additional corruption slots/buffing Corruptions continues the problem of overstacking builds and making it very hard for newer players. My suggestion has always been to nerf Corruptions to minor boosts, and buff main stats significantly.
    ~Rank 11 Loremaster, Arkenstone~

    ~Rank 13 Warg, Arkenstone~

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Spilo View Post
    Vastin, worth noting that buffing additional corruption slots/buffing Corruptions continues the problem of overstacking builds and making it very hard for newer players. My suggestion has always been to nerf Corruptions to minor boosts, and buff main stats significantly.
    I agree. Corruptions should be like essences. 80% of your stats should be base stats, only the remaining 20% should be fine-tuned to get to a certain result
    (numbers freely chosen).
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
    Deutsche Guides für nahezu alles, was Casuals interessieren könnte, gibts hier: http://gdfv.forumo.de/guides-f24/

  13. #13
    Loremaster isn't OP he can't oneshot a creep anymore (a good thing, but) his other abilities are just not doing damage

    Fureo

  14. #14
    Thanks for the attention Vastin!

    There still remains the issue with the Delving of Fror bosses being almost impossible to kill for creeps, while freeps have an easy time with them.

    Perhaps lower their morale and give them hefty mitigations against freep damage types? or alternatively make them much weaker against creep damage types?


    A relatively minor QoL issue compared to the other stuff though. Thanks!
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  15. #15
    Mobs HP in new 3\6 man still the same...no changes any comments?

    RK's solo dps is around 50k now, so i suggest to nerf it for 15% before release
    Xolla;Tishina\Arkenstone

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post
    Thanks for the attention Vastin!

    There still remains the issue with the Delving of Fror bosses being almost impossible to kill for creeps, while freeps have an easy time with them.

    Perhaps lower their morale and give them hefty mitigations against freep damage types? or alternatively make them much weaker against creep damage types?


    A relatively minor QoL issue compared to the other stuff though. Thanks!
    Gary currently has 9.5m morale.
    Tree is 4.6m.
    Just checked on the beta.
    Chieftain Urundus
    Cohorts of the Red Legion
    Arkenstone

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sarasota, FL, USA
    Posts
    3,410
    Quote Originally Posted by LordOfTheSquids View Post
    Bullroarer has been updated to build 2300.0060.5683.4281.
    Nice.
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir


  18. #18
    Wow!!!! O.O
    Vastin, you just made my day.........../hug
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  19. #19
    This is a very good update, and I'm liking the quick turnaround. This is starting to feel like a beta. Update 23 was a serious concern early on and things were looking to be moving into an even worse direction. This really seems like you guys are trying to implement our feedback and make things fun. I'm actually a little more excited for update 23 now.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by LordOfTheSquids View Post
    Bullroarer has been updated to build 2300.0060.5683.4281.

    The player database has been wiped with this deployment! This was required to get accurate feedback based on the current state of the equipment in the build.

    Changes:
    • Tactical LI's have had their DPS/HPS ratings increased to keep pace with their physical counterparts and to adjust for the changes to Mastery.
    • To provide an indicator that a treasure pull is a favored pull cosmetic tokens on a favored pull from 3-->4.
    • Fix for Champion damage issue from last beta build and skill delays in red line.
    • Light Armor - Swapped in finesse on many Grey Mountains light DPS pieces.
    • Light Armor - Swapped in some tactical mastery on GM light heal pieces.
    • Off-hand/non-LI ranged weapons have had their DPS adjusted to be more in line with Legendary Weapon damage.

    Monster Play:
    • Monsterplayer consumables updated to lvl 120.
    • Monsterplayer base ratings updated to lvl 120.
    • Monsterplayer mod-stats tweaked to buff monster player health and dps a bit.
    • Freep keep mobs have had their HP reduced about 50% from their creep counterparts to adjust for lower Creep DPS output. (result of a longstanding complaint)

    Known Issues:
    • Mark of the Longbeards cap will be increased to 400, but the change did not make it into this build.
    • Might on equipment and consumables will be increased to be in line with other main stats, but the change is not in yet.
    • Scrolls of Battle Lore and Warding Lore are not providing the correct benefit.

    You can find the U23 release notes here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-Release-Notes
    These are fantastic changes and it's good to see creeps getting a band aid before freep passes are done. One tiny thing is that since you're paying attention to the community could you look into the request about backdoors? These balance changes will significantly help the combat between freeps and creeps. But the action itself will still revolve around back door shuffles unless they are either removed or made usable out of combat only. Thanks

    (Retired... Maybe un-retired?) Arkenstone: Immanitas R12 Burg, Gorbat R12 Reaver, Sueahpro R11 Mini, Falsified R9 RK, -The Blood Hand
    Crickhollow: Orphluk R9 Warg, Orphelun-1 R8 RK. -The Blood Hand.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by J-Moneyforever View Post
    But the action itself will still revolve around back door shuffles unless they are either removed or made usable out of combat only. Thanks
    Oh yes... this this this.... this is such an easy and quick fix that has been requested by sooooo many people for such a long time.
    Last edited by Saruman_Of_Numbers; Oct 03 2018 at 04:58 PM.
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    278
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    Please tell us your reasoning behind landscape tokens cap.
    If those tokens are like any landscape tokens before, a cap just does not make sense.
    Especially, if you can hit it, if you quest without rep accelerators, before you are kindred.

    You force people to buy things they dont want or waste questrewards. Why?
    We totally respect that you have already increased the cap to 400, however can we please have some clarification as to why you have introduced a cap at all? It is often the case that once you have brought the essential items from the vendor, you generally wait to see what will happen in future updates in order to decide what you need to spend your tokens on - meaning people are going to stop questing without finishing the area so as not to go over the cap...

    It is not necessary unless there is some grand plan in the works that we don't know about?

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    6,240
    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    I'm betting that lore-masters are going to be pretty OP as a result of our fix on the tactical progressions, as they were re-balanced during a period where those progressions were starting to fall behind noticeably - as a result their skills are likely over-tuned right now.

    I'll be addressing that shortly. Amuse yourself with the absurd damage numbers in the meantime if you wish.

    -Vastin
    My MoNF LM will certainly enjoy it while it lasts.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  24. #24
    Some Words to the Champion Changes with this Build.
    The Damage numbers got fixed what resulted in an good Dps boost compared to last build.
    But what most impresses me is, that the Champion Skill especially in Red feel so much better now, even on my Dwarf (where the animations felt kinda slow in the last time) i have no feel able delay at all (some animations are still slower compared to my high elf, but not nearly so bad as it used to be).

    The smoother game-play combined with the Finesse Changes bring a smile to my face. I dont know where the Champion stands now in terms of a dps Ranking, but i honestly dont care at the moment. Because playing Champion makes much more fun then before (i always played champion and always had fun with it, but this changes pushed it to a new lvl of fun^^)

    Keep up the good Work <3

    (but pls change might a bit so we get rid of tactical mastery and get something useful for it^^)
    Gertes

  25. #25
    There appears to be a bug with the Legendary weapons, when putting crystals and IXP to boost my equipped 2h sword from 53 to 58 DPS legacy, my Grand Abysal Rune of Striking seems to have become part of the weapons base damage and then applies the rune again effectively double counting the rune. This does not happen when advancing an unequipped weapon.

    Edit: After logging back into BR my 2h sword's DPS seems to have corrected itself and seems ok now.
    Last edited by MikeA; Oct 03 2018 at 05:41 PM.
    [

 

 
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