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  1. #1

    Australia Parliamentary Committee Conclude that Loot Boxes Exploit Gambling Disorders

    Here is the Download Link to the Report. It's a .pdf

    https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=dfbcba3d-3753-4cd0-b5b6-ba216ec56a3b&subId=658774


    So we have our first study and discussion that concludes the issue that Loot boxes are indeed gambling, and it is unregulated gambling at that. SSG really needs to reconsider their stance on Lootboxes because the future is starting to look grim. That joy that people feel when opening Loot Boxes, is linked to gambling addiction. Not only that, but now fifteen other countries along with the state of Washington are now opening dialogue with gambling regulators over the issue of Loot Boxes.

    https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.u...ation-2018.pdf

    I felt this needed its own thread because we are no longer in the Loot Boxes "might" be gambling. It is.

  2. #2
    Problem is that its almost impossible to distinguish lootboxes from other RNG mechanics.

    Expect games to invent new, more convoluted "skinner boxes" to hide their gambling mechanics behind.

    Or just more grind.


    U23 loot model looks like its moving away from lootboxes and more toward Pay-2-reduce-grind.
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post
    Problem is that its almost impossible to distinguish lootboxes from other RNG mechanics.

    Expect games to invent new, more convoluted "skinner boxes" to hide their gambling mechanics behind.

    Or just more grind.


    U23 loot model looks like its moving away from lootboxes and more toward Pay-2-reduce-grind.
    "Loot boxes are items in video games that contain randomised contents and can be paid for with real
    money." Is how the publication defines them as. LOTRO's endgame boxes would meet this definition.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hallandil View Post
    "Loot boxes are items in video games that contain randomised contents and can be paid for with real
    money." Is how the publication defines them as. LOTRO's endgame boxes would meet this definition.

    change it from an item to something like the hobbit presents.

    "Not an item"

    or some kind of ingame event, etc...

    there are a billion little loopholes in software where you can have essentially the same gambling mechanics in a different package. Hide it behind several currency conversions and technicalities and you're right as rain.
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallandil View Post
    "Loot boxes are items in video games that contain randomised contents and can be paid for with real
    money." Is how the publication defines them as. LOTRO's endgame boxes would meet this definition.
    It will be all boxes after the new update hits, not just the end game boxes.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post
    change it from an item to something like the hobbit presents.

    "Not an item"

    or some kind of ingame event, etc...

    there are a billion little loopholes in software where you can have essentially the same gambling mechanics in a different package. Hide it behind several currency conversions and technicalities and you're right as rain.
    Hobbit presents do technically count as gambling (under the same scrutiny). The exact same style is no different than paying for the RNG Boxes that drop cosmetic fluff in Smite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    It will be all boxes after the new update hits, not just the end game boxes.
    Which is worrisome. It's a double-edged sword. Disconnecting the lootboxes from core gameplay makes them more "pay"-to-win, but also stops them being forced upon players.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallandil View Post
    Hobbit presents do technically count as gambling (under the same scrutiny). The exact same style is no different than paying for the RNG Boxes that drop cosmetic fluff in Smite.



    Which is worrisome. It's a double-edged sword. Disconnecting the lootboxes from core gameplay makes them more "pay"-to-win, but also stops them being forced upon players.
    Oh the lootboxes will still be forced on players. Those are staying and will no doubt, drop like candy just like they did, and still do, all over Mordor (I've discarded more than 80 of them in the last fortnight).
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  8. #8
    RIP lootboxes then.

    NEW FEATURE:

    CHESTS OF GLORIOUS MERIT: loot chests that sit in Rivendell, you open with a SILVER KEY. Contain random assortment of goodies inside.

    SILVER KEYS can be obtained by bartering several [fragment of silver key] for [Silver Key]

    FRAGMENTS OF SILVER KEY can be obtained from loot chests in instances. The chance that these chests will drop a large amount of fragments can be increased by applying an ITHIL RUNE to the chest before opening

    ITHIL RUNES are avalible on the LOTRO store for 250 lotro points.


    NOT A LOOTBOX.
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post
    RIP lootboxes then.

    NEW FEATURE:

    CHESTS OF GLORIOUS MERIT: loot chests that sit in Rivendell, you open with a SILVER KEY. Contain random assortment of goodies inside.

    SILVER KEYS can be obtained by bartering several [fragment of silver key] for [Silver Key]

    FRAGMENTS OF SILVER KEY can be obtained from loot chests in instances. The chance that these chests will drop a large amount of fragments can be increased by applying an ITHIL RUNE to the chest before opening

    ITHIL RUNES are avalible on the LOTRO store for 250 lotro points.


    NOT A LOOTBOX.

  10. #10
    nearly every loot in most MMOs is rng and could therefore be called gambling...
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    nearly every loot in most MMOs is rng and could therefore be called gambling...

    I was thinkig about it, too, but there is a difference: you don´t spend real money on these chests.
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik
    Eglish isn't my native language, sorry for mistakes

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    nearly every loot in most MMOs is rng and could therefore be called gambling...
    Um...no. Not even close.
    The joy of loot-boxes. The pure, unbridled JOY.

  13. #13
    If you want to see what a fully fledged lootbox system is, where a MMO-Shop is offering 'lucky boxes' that get paid with a pseudo-currency, which you have to buy with real money (in order to obscure how much you are actually throwing into the maws of the publishers), look here:
    http://en.rappelz.webzen.com/News/All/1000000000/4802
    http://forum.webzen.com/forum/en/rap...erepair-powder

    'Erepair' is elemental, because the items that you get are initially so weak, you have to upgrade them. Yet each failed upgrade will result in a breaking of the item. The higher the enchantment already is, the lower is the chance for a successful upgrade, and the faster the breaking will happen. You can invest eprotects - an item breaking protection, but the item itself will stay on the lower level, and still be prone to breaking. Also, upgrading items that can add three or five levels in a row, will not accept the use of eprotects. Eprotects cost the third of an Erepair.

    So you are forced to consume a large amount of erepairs, if you want to keep up with the game progression. There are two ways to obtain them, the mmo shop or the auction house / player shops. There have been events that dropped single erepairs every now and then, but very rarely, and I don't know if they still do, as I left the game when they implemeted a mechanic that enabled the upgrade of items up to level 25, by merging 32 similar items, that had already been upgraded to level 20. Talk about Pay2Win...

    Lotro is gold, compared to that.


    Greetings, Polymachos
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Estelrandir View Post
    I was thinkig about it, too, but there is a difference: you don´t spend real money on these chests.
    Time is money

    You make an investment and dont know what you get for it. Might be great reward or nothing.
    Why does the used currency matter?
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    Time is money

    You make an investment and dont know what you get for it. Might be great reward or nothing.
    Why does the used currency matter?
    Time is NOT money. That’s just a metaphor.

    So the currency used for the transaction matter, because it does.

    Time is not money, time is just a precious commodity we are all given it is free and it is up to each of us to decide how to spent it.

    Real currency on the other hand, is hearned. It is not free and not everyone can afford to give it away to buy keys and/or lootboxes.

    I am glad I am not the only one opposed to lootboxes and excessive monetization in video games, things are getting out of control in the industry.
    Amorey
    Laurelin Archives Webteam

  16. #16
    There is this game called Warframe. Its basicly a looter shooter with quite a bit grind in it. Fun thing is that for all items which drops in game there is they drop chance posted in they wiki page. It is f2p play and it has premium curency called platinum, but you always know what you get if you spend it to buy stuff ingame or trade with other players. There is one thing that clasifies as lootboxes - Mod packs,which contains random mods , but nobody buys thoses, since there is no real reason to. So claiming that you cant make f2p games without gambling is bull####. Least SSG could do is to make item drop rates from lootboxes and every other drops know, but of course they wont do that since they are crapy low and SSG knows that.

  17. #17
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    How will I gear up if they remove p2w loot boxes? Is there another way to get geared?

    You see the problem is loot boxes are worse than simple p2w. When you have gear in the cash shop at a certain price, you know what you pay and you know what you get. When they are offering gear in loot boxes, though, they are essentially saying, "Here, you fool! Pay an RNG amount of money for your gear, for your chance to play the content we know you'd love to play. Are you stupid enough to do it?"

    The problem is the RNG price. How would you react if you walked into a store and suddenly everything had an RNG price? Or you walk into a store and suddenly all they sell is loot boxes and you don't know what's inside...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymachos View Post
    If you want to see what a fully fledged lootbox system is, where a MMO-Shop is offering 'lucky boxes' that get paid with a pseudo-currency, which you have to buy with real money (in order to obscure how much you are actually throwing into the maws of the publishers), look here:
    http://en.rappelz.webzen.com/News/All/1000000000/4802
    http://forum.webzen.com/forum/en/rap...erepair-powder

    'Erepair' is elemental, because the items that you get are initially so weak, you have to upgrade them. Yet each failed upgrade will result in a breaking of the item. The higher the enchantment already is, the lower is the chance for a successful upgrade, and the faster the breaking will happen. You can invest eprotects - an item breaking protection, but the item itself will stay on the lower level, and still be prone to breaking. Also, upgrading items that can add three or five levels in a row, will not accept the use of eprotects. Eprotects cost the third of an Erepair.

    So you are forced to consume a large amount of erepairs, if you want to keep up with the game progression. There are two ways to obtain them, the mmo shop or the auction house / player shops. There have been events that dropped single erepairs every now and then, but very rarely, and I don't know if they still do, as I left the game when they implemeted a mechanic that enabled the upgrade of items up to level 25, by merging 32 similar items, that had already been upgraded to level 20. Talk about Pay2Win...

    Lotro is gold, compared to that.


    Greetings, Polymachos
    Black Desert Online adopted a similar system with the enchanting of weapons (making it +1 /+2/+3/+4), where you had to use Black Stones which had a % chance of success and failing. The more you stack, the greater the chance of success.

    Similar with Elder Scrolls Online's 'Upgrading' in crafting - however, ESO's isn't tied to monetary payments.

    Overton Window. Both situations are ethically questionable, one is just less horrific than the other.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Joetzim View Post
    How will I gear up if they remove p2w loot boxes? Is there another way to get geared?
    Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but on the off chance you arnt, ill answer.

    If you want the gear you can always play the content.

  20. #20
    Oh well... GOODBYE Lotro... It was good while it lasted..

    I don't like lootboxes or key purchases but it has kept the game bank rolled since the split.

    Oh well... lets hope the new company get their skates on and have the Silmarillion MMO ready for our demise.
    ----A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything----

  21. #21
    How comes that this thread was moved to off topic section ?

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by harly2000 View Post
    How comes that this thread was moved to off topic section ?
    Because Lootboxes are a little too on-topic for SSG to stomach. It's milk the system as much as they can and ignore the issue exists until governments across the globe start kicking in doors.

 

 

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