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  1. #1

    Three Improvements for the North Downs

    Loved the recent Bree update. Would like to see some improvements to other more 'classic' areas of Eriador, like in the North Downs:

    - Othrikar is a great Dwarf town. Would be cool to see some interior details added like an inn, mining offices, quarters, etc.

    - Lin Giliath in Meluinen is classified as an Elven outpost but it is more than that. It has complete buildings, an interior library, and not merely a few ruined columns inhabited by a few sad Elves. Plus given its open location, it basically seems like the neighboring trolls and Orcs could easily overrun the site. How about revising the outpost where it has some kind of natural surrounding barrier hiding what is there? Make it more like a bordered village or town?

    - Similar to what we see in Evendim, add a boat 'stable' ride between the south point of Meluinen to near the Hunter's Camp in Nen Harn.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orintho View Post
    Loved the recent Bree update. Would like to see some improvements to other more 'classic' areas of Eriador, like in the North Downs:

    - Othrikar is a great Dwarf town. Would be cool to see some interior details added like an inn, mining offices, quarters, etc.

    - Lin Giliath in Meluinen is classified as an Elven outpost but it is more than that. It has complete buildings, an interior library, and not merely a few ruined columns inhabited by a few sad Elves. Plus given its open location, it basically seems like the neighboring trolls and Orcs could easily overrun the site. How about revising the outpost where it has some kind of natural surrounding barrier hiding what is there? Make it more like a bordered village or town?

    - Similar to what we see in Evendim, add a boat 'stable' ride between the south point of Meluinen to near the Hunter's Camp in Nen Harn.
    I really like your ideas. I have always felt that the North Downs area in general seems sort of rough and unfinished.

    Esteldin has great potential, but as it is it looks more like a space used as an open market than like a place where people actually live.
    There are a lot of people there...where do they sleep at night?
    Do they come from somewhere else and only work there during the day? If so, where do they live? Do they all sleep in those tents?

    Trestlebridge reminds me of Archet.
    I guess because they are both burned.
    It would be cool if Trestlebridge had a few more streets... neighborhoods. They should be deserted...(with rats)...the town being on the edge of the evil that is flowing south.

    Yeah, I hope the North Downs is on the agenda for a brushing up.
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  3. #3
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    What I'd like to see, in or near Esteldin, is some farmland. The Crafting Hall has all the NPCs, including the Guild Officers. We can do everything we want there ... except farm.

    There's a farm just up the road, but at present the fields of Gatson's Farm are just cosmetic and Gatson and Gilmar are just quest-givers. How difficult would it be to make some of their fields functional (suggestion: not the ones to the south, that are full of Orcs) and turn Gatson and/or Gilmar into Expert Farmers? (That's not a rhetorical question; I really want to know.)
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  4. #4
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    I Agree in between the starter areas and Bree the next serviceable area seems to be Rivendell

    There should be inns, Auction Halls, places people can RP..a center of Activity, not just the next stop along the way


    There should be a "Bree like" Place along the way to Rivendell and later Lorien
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    What I'd like to see, in or near Esteldin, is some farmland. The Crafting Hall has all the NPCs, including the Guild Officers. We can do everything we want there ... except farm.

    There's a farm just up the road, but at present the fields of Gatson's Farm are just cosmetic and Gatson and Gilmar are just quest-givers. How difficult would it be to make some of their fields functional (suggestion: not the ones to the south, that are full of Orcs) and turn Gatson and/or Gilmar into Expert Farmers? (That's not a rhetorical question; I really want to know.)
    Wait a minute... that might be fun, needing to stop plowing, or seeding, or harvesting to deal with a rampaging orc!.
    I might like that. Of course, it would really be quite simple if you only needed to farm a few items. Just kill all the nearby orcs and then proceed with producing those 5 fields of Winter Barley and then be on yer way.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flagron View Post
    I Agree in between the starter areas and Bree the next serviceable area seems to be Rivendell

    There should be inns, Auction Halls, places people can RP..a center of Activity, not just the next stop along the way


    There should be a "Bree like" Place along the way to Rivendell and later Lorien

    Perhaps it "should" be, but it is pretty well established in lore that there isn't any inns or major settlements between the Forsaken Inn and Rivendell.

    Fact is that Eriador in the late Third Age is a pretty desolate place, with most of it uninhabited wilderness.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flagron View Post
    I Agree in between the starter areas and Bree the next serviceable area seems to be Rivendell

    There should be inns, Auction Halls, places people can RP..a center of Activity, not just the next stop along the way


    There should be a "Bree like" Place along the way to Rivendell and later Lorien
    I disagree with this cause beyond the Forsaken, There nothing until you get to Rivendell that is lore, there wouldn't be anymore Inns or anything its all wild, I like the way it is as is. but then again we have Ost guruth and other camps. maybe add an Auction person and Vault keeper to Ost guruth, that would be fine. but not stuff Bree-like in area thats to have nothing then there already is.
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  8. #8
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    I've always liked the diversity and feel of the North Downs. Only thing I wish it had was more swift travel between points.

  9. #9
    I absolutely agree- am all for more new interiors and such.

    Yes, Meluinen feels very under-protected. Could trolls smash through a makeshift door and cause havoc? Yes. But frankly, the current form of the settlement that has few fortifications really feels like the Elves and poor Lachir (or Lachenn?) were asking for it- far too comfortable for Elves living in the wild in terms of not having... stronger bounds and protections from the wild. Rivendell has this same problem where it had survived a SIEGE lead by SAURON (caps, not yelling in all of my caps), and yet there's just no sign or indication that Rivendell could survive even a basic raid by Orcs.

    The Dwarven settlement's much more fortified- but I'd love to go inside their mines, have a sense of what its like to live there!

    Esteldin has crafting spaces and Halbarad's chambers, but it would be nice to lift the Epic quest restrictions on interiors in the ND. I personally don't care as a player whether I walk into a room and find the Council of the North meeting or if I find Gildor down in Meluinen in the same ride. I'd just love to walk into a room without feeling the need to complete an Epic quest in order to get inside it. Nor do I want to be barred-access from entering rooms due to completing Epic quests. I also feel that Esteldin could maybe benefit from an "Inn" built-into the older Arnorian stone- to see where the Rangers stay when going on or returning from longer trips. Surely they have places to eat, sleep, sing songs, tell old tales of Arnor, etc., when not abroad? Surely, after living in -1 spot- for over a thousand years, they'd adapt -some form of comfortable living- for themselves and their families, much like how the Rohirrim adapted old Gondorian ruins to suit their needs with wood and thatch? I just can't imagine an entire people- even the Dunedain- all sleeping on cold, broken stone floors or in makeshift sleeping-bags for thousands of years. It strikes me as silly!
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantion View Post
    I absolutely agree- am all for more new interiors and such.

    Yes, Meluinen feels very under-protected. Could trolls smash through a makeshift door and cause havoc? Yes. But frankly, the current form of the settlement that has few fortifications really feels like the Elves and poor Lachir (or Lachenn?) were asking for it- far too comfortable for Elves living in the wild in terms of not having... stronger bounds and protections from the wild. Rivendell has this same problem where it had survived a SIEGE lead by SAURON (caps, not yelling in all of my caps), and yet there's just no sign or indication that Rivendell could survive even a basic raid by Orcs.
    The defences of Rivendell are not visible to the untrained eye.

    ....

    Esteldin has crafting spaces and Halbarad's chambers, but it would be nice to lift the Epic quest restrictions on interiors in the ND. I personally don't care as a player whether I walk into a room and find the Council of the North meeting or if I find Gildor down in Meluinen in the same ride. I'd just love to walk into a room without feeling the need to complete an Epic quest in order to get inside it. Nor do I want to be barred-access from entering rooms due to completing Epic quests. I also feel that Esteldin could maybe benefit from an "Inn" built-into the older Arnorian stone- to see where the Rangers stay when going on or returning from longer trips. Surely they have places to eat, sleep, sing songs, tell old tales of Arnor, etc., when not abroad? Surely, after living in -1 spot- for over a thousand years, they'd adapt -some form of comfortable living- for themselves and their families, much like how the Rohirrim adapted old Gondorian ruins to suit their needs with wood and thatch? I just can't imagine an entire people- even the Dunedain- all sleeping on cold, broken stone floors or in makeshift sleeping-bags for thousands of years. It strikes me as silly!
    I took a walk around Esteldin the other day. There's quite a lot of it really, several buildings in excellent repair, and no visible doors into them. I get the impression that Esteldin is one of the primary residences of the Dunedain, where they live when they're not fighting. But we don't get to see them. We see only a few Dunedain women, mostly inside the crafting hall, but there must be women and children around somewhere; the Rangers do not spring fully-formed from the brow of Iluvatar.

    I suppose it would be possible to visit the concealed safe spaces of Esteldin (probably in an instance) and see the women and children of the Dunedain. But that would be a lot of extra work on SSG's part for one instance. And consider that when Arathorn was killed, Gilraen took the young Aragorn to Rivendell to be brought up in anonymity and safety.
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  11. #11
    Agree with everyone that it would be cool to see Esteldin get the Bree treatment as well. It is a major northern town and like most others, I had assumed it is or had been a Dunedain settlement.

    And it would be great to see Gondamon and Duillond (a jewel of the west IMO) get enhanced and opened up as well in a similar Ered Luin improvement.

  12. #12
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    What I'd like to see when / if the Northdowns get a makover is the skirmish camp moved away from its current position. I always think it would attract alltogether too many unfriendly eyes to the nearby entrance of the supposedly well hidden Esteldin. And then there is the mountain range north of Esteldin already sporting a serviceable Arnorian ruin above the central square, several tucked away valleys and an entire grassy high plateau, where the camp would be much more inconspicious than it is now.

    The ruin:

    The plateau:

    I'd love if Scenario made use of this space eventually.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boraxxe View Post
    Wait a minute... that might be fun, needing to stop plowing, or seeding, or harvesting to deal with a rampaging orc!.
    I might like that. Of course, it would really be quite simple if you only needed to farm a few items. Just kill all the nearby orcs and then proceed with producing those 5 fields of Winter Barley and then be on yer way.
    In my experience, the Orcs hang out in the south fields, the hills east of there, and south as far as the outskirts of Meluinen.

    I've never seen an Orc dare to show his ugly face anywhere near the farmhouse, nor in the fields or orchards north of there. All the mobs you see north of the farmhouse are lynx and bears.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by West-northwestook View Post
    What I'd like to see when / if the Northdowns get a makover is the skirmish camp moved away from its current position. I always think it would attract alltogether too many unfriendly eyes to the nearby entrance of the supposedly well hidden Esteldin. And then there is the mountain range north of Esteldin already sporting a serviceable Arnorian ruin above the central square, several tucked away valleys and an entire grassy high plateau, where the camp would be much more inconspicious than it is now.

    [pictures edited out]

    I'd love if Scenario made use of this space eventually.
    Well, the Rangers do want to preserve their hidden space. On the other hand, the devs want player characters to be able to *find* the skirmish camps.

    The western approach to Esteldin seems to me just about right ... the east-west road stops at the T-junction with the Othrikar/Meluinen road, and there's nothing to follow but a faint trail in the grass.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    Well, the Rangers do want to preserve their hidden space. On the other hand, the devs want player characters to be able to *find* the skirmish camps.
    The camp wouldn't be that hidden for our characters, the ruin is hard to overlook when you are standing in the central place,

    especially if you imagine the flags of the camp as eye catchers. With some stairs it would be easily approachable.

    But what I'm wanting most is to make all that space available to us, since you are not really supposed to be able to crawl around up there right now...
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by West-northwestook View Post
    The camp wouldn't be that hidden for our characters, the ruin is hard to overlook when you are standing in the central place,

    especially if you imagine the flags of the camp as eye catchers. With some stairs it would be easily approachable.

    But what I'm wanting most is to make all that space available to us, since you are not really supposed to be able to crawl around up there right now...


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  17. #17
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    It would be useful if they put a study in Esteldin. Both Trestlebridge and Esteldin have novice scholars, but there aren't any studies in the North Downs.

  18. #18
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    Isn't there a study in Lin Giliath?
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by auximenes View Post
    Isn't there a study in Lin Giliath?
    According to the wiki, no. I got caught by this as well on my mini scholar. Lin Gilliath is a great idea for a study - even if it isn't a full study like Rivendell (although this would be my preference).

  20. #20
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    Bummer. I just checked and there's an LM trainer but no Study.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by auximenes View Post
    Bummer. I just checked and there's an LM trainer but no Study.
    That's a side effect of changes to crafting. Scholars below Artisan don't need a study to do their work, unless that has been changed, too. Of course, any work needed that is Artisan or higher can't be done without the study. They could mark some areas in the original areas as studies just for that. I do have a vague memory of an area in the Mathom House being so marked. I may be mistaken, though; and you needed faction rep with the Shire to access it, if I am remembering correctly.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orintho View Post
    Agree with everyone that it would be cool to see Esteldin get the Bree treatment as well. It is a major northern town and like most others, I had assumed it is or had been a Dunedain settlement.

    And it would be great to see Gondamon and Duillond (a jewel of the west IMO) get enhanced and opened up as well in a similar Ered Luin improvement.
    Judging from the bad (but live-with-able) stone walls that now decorate Celondim, I'd rather they leave the rest of the low-level areas alone, as they're more likely to get the Shire treatment!

  23. #23
    Well, North downs is suppose to be a huge empty and uninhabited area. I always see Esteldin more as a camp of the rangers rather than a town. North downs is the last area before Angmar that is 50-50 safe to live their and it is huge enough and would require professional army like Gondor's to well defend the lands and there are no huge armies in Eriandor that era, so there are no settlements at all . The are very few houses around ND and Stonehigh is burned (cause the luck of defense forces) so that makes North downs kinda non mans land between free peoples and Angmar forces. The dwarf settlement and the elf as my understanding goes are both present the garrisons of dwarfs and elves who actually help the humans to creat a minimum watch to secure peace of Eriador and they are more like a camps rather than a small town or even village . The free people have create a minimum military line to secure safety from random monsters who want to invade the lands. So the citizens of the North downs are more like a trained in the art of war watchers than simply citizens. The farms around ND are just people who risk their lives actually .

    As we go south we come across Trestlebridge. Trestlebridge is the gate of bree land and shouthern lands where they are the most peaceful areas in Eriandor. Bree land have the most of the forces secure the lands arround Bree as they are closer to the town. Even the defense line of dwarfs, elves and men wasn't enough to prevent a fast attack into Trestlebridge the forces of the enemy damaged the town and almost burned it to the ground.

    So i come back to the topic that North downs are empty of default and would damage the sense of the history if they try to make the land more "alive". But i would definitely suggest a rebuild Hytbold style of Trestlebridge since Trestlebridge is consider to be Bree land area and of course Archert too.
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