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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    250

    Legendary items problem as I see it.

    Putting this as separate thread as this would otherwise likely to be buried.
    Here is the problem with Legendaries as I see it. I actually went around, got a few items here and there, used up a bunch of xp runes etc.
    There have been comments to the tune of "You have been ignoring the system, and got what was coming to you". Let me illustrate the issue with actual numbers.

    There have ever been a 'casual' part to LIs, and an 'elite' part. I am using the term "elite" rather loosely there. More to mean "non-casual group instance player" rather than "top raider". Elite part was mostly a bonus if you raided, but the bonus was not THAT large. Namely, I am talking star-lit crystals here. First Age legendary advantage was mainly having more points to rank up legacies, but post-imbue, there is really no difference. I would say purely a vanity thing. But star-lit crystal were historically a higher end item, for the most not available from solo content, and consistent advice for casuals was they did not need them. And the truth of that held - right up to the Black Gate.

    Elite part, in general, were:
    • Obtain First Age legendary.
    • Apply Crystal of Remembrance for extra legacy.
    • Max out all legacies to T6 to maximize points with empo scrolls. Casuals might also bump a legacy or two to squeeze a bit more points, but scroll requirement was generally minimal, and one could max out 2-3 most important legacies easily.
    • Apply 3 starlit crystals for a DPS boost. This gave one about 10% more DPS. or even less, Example: Lvl 100 third age light bridle with main at max is 20956 fury rating. First Age light bridle with 3 crystals: 21801 fury.



    Now, Mordor is not the first time when mobs got a large update. For example, there was a large jump after lvl 85. However, at those times, there was an accompanying jump in BASE Legendary DPS. In order to access it, all a player needed to do was obtain a higher level LI, xp it up a bit, and you were good to go.
    Specifically, DPS numbers for Warden swords with DPS legacy ranked to max.

    Level 85: 264.3 DPS.
    Level 86: 351.7 DPS.
    That's right. A single level higher item that could drop off any lvl 86 landscape mob, a 33% DPS boost to account for mob strength update.
    Going further:
    Level 92: 397.3 DPS
    Level 100: 450.5 DPS.
    Second/First Age were a tiny bit better. I.e. Level 100 SA is 454.3 DPS. Again, those are all increases at BASE. Accessible by simply picking up/melding/bartering/crafting a new Third Age piece. No starlits required to stay relevant versus landscape.

    Post-Imbue, the system largely remained same. Even though the gap in star-lits required to max an item ever grew, the power difference remained about same. AND landscape difficulty remained about in step with BASE legacy level unlocks.
    Directly after Imbue, SA Warden sword: 457.9 DPS.
    Unlocking DPS legacy tier 25 via starlits:: 486.4 DPS
    That is about 6% difference.

    At each update, they added more tiers, unlocking some of them at base, and the gap ever grew, but was it an issue? Not really. Mob power did not have jumps, you filled in newly unlocked tiers with IXP, and you were fine. Lets see what were the numbers the day before Mordor release:
    You had 26 free unlocked tiers, and final was 43, a 17 crystal gap.
    Imbued at lvl 26: 488.3 DPS.
    Imbued at lvl 43 (pre Mordor max): 520.6
    To recap, I you "ignored the system" up to this point and never bothered to go after star-lits. your DPS gap from max was a whopping 6.6%

    Mordor came out, and LIs got 10 more tiers, 5 of them free. Casuals added more IXP to their items as usual, getting
    Imbued at lvl 31 (Mordor base unlock) 497.8 DPS.
    Elites who were at 43 and now could go to 48:
    Imbued at lvl 48: 677.2 DPS

    In other words, casuals who never applied crystals as it was never before needed: 2% DPS increase to face drastically increased landscape difficulty.
    Elites who did max out their LIs for raiding: 30% DPS increase after applying a bit of IXP. AND, once they added those 5 extra crystals to get to the new max:
    Imbued at lvl 53: 885.0 DPS, a 70% DPS increase from pre-Mordor max.
    Oh, and on top of that, there are new runes that ONLY drop from on-level instances, which can take that same LI to 961.8 DPS.

    Summary:
    At 85 > 86 difficulty spike, both casuals and elites got a base 33% DPS increase.
    At further pre-imbue difficulty increases, casuals and elites again got equivalent base DPS increase. (28% from 86 to 100)
    Post-imbue, despite ever growing gap, difference between base unlock and final tiers was never more than 7%.
    At Morder heavy difficulty spike, casuals get 2% at base. Elites get 30% at base and 70% at final, and this increase is locked behind a rather large amount of starlits which casuals never needed before and which pretty much do not come from solo content, except maybe 4 or 5 as epic quest rewards. Yeah, you can grind them from festivals (where they, frankly, don't belong) but otherwise you depend on whatever unneeded leftovers elites sell on the AH.

    The other legacies, ones that require scrolls, actually had similar post-imbue progression, but the truth is, a difference between tier 42 and 69 is trivial. Say, 9.2% Light damage bonus vs 14.6%. In other words, you are not much worse off without those 200+ Empo scrolls. But that is exactly where we were with main legacies and star-lits pre-Mordor and look where we are now. Where is the guarantee that at some future update there is a similar change and unless you expend 200+ empos per item, you are stuck with inadequate legacies?
    Last edited by scorrp10; Sep 15 2018 at 01:53 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Infraction Traction 1/1 (1)
    Posts
    3,468
    Quote Originally Posted by scorrp10 View Post
    snip... Yeah, you can grind them from festivals (where they, frankly, don't belong) but otherwise you depend on whatever unneeded leftovers elites sell on the AH...snip
    This is a very salient point.
    Festival activity to increase the power of a weapon is a bit of a jaring concept to absorb.
    Since increasing the power of your weapon is really just increasing the effectivity of your character, we should be doing things that would theoretically advance the character's skill/talent/abilities.
    Horse racing, fishing, kite chasing, ale drinking...
    How do these activities improve a characters effectiveness when it comes to adventuring?
    Well, I guess horse racing could work for mounted combat, but certainly not unmounted battle skills.
    We should be questing for crystals, not goofing around at a festival, or spending cash at the store.

    I generally agree with your analysis.
    ...................... missed a putt...............At a Dead & Co. show on a Mexican beach
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    The real Boraxxe... wearing his "Get off my lawn!" face and his "I smoked my lawn" face.
    This has to end. I do not play LOTRO because I want to gamble. I play LOTRO because I like the game.
    Buying keys is not playing the game.
    Golfing Hobby yes....Golfing Hobby yes

 

 

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