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  1. #1
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    Grant us the ability to roleplay or casually roleplay an "Evil" character.

    Dear SSG staff who may or may not read this.

    I speak for myself here as I do not know how others feel about such things.

    I have always been a lover of villains and my favorite characters Tolkien's 'The Lord of the Rings' are The Witch-King of Angmar and of course Sauron himself. Even in your very own 'The Lord of the Rings Online' which I have played since beta 11 years ago, LOTRO has created some spectacular villains in Amarthiel and Mordirith and others of course, but to me they are the stand out villains.

    However we players have only ever been given the ability to dress or title ourselves as heroes, yes there are Mordor armor sets I know, but im not a fan. We have a huge lack of Heritage options, why can we not be from Rhun or Harad for example. Why can we not allow for players to title themselves as loyal to evil factions, for example, my Dwarf is an 'evil dwarf' or at least as evil as I can make him, with almost no titles or outfits to support it.
    Why can you not allow us to have titles such as
    Dourhand Loyalist
    Black Numenorian
    Man of Harad
    Variag Mercenary
    The Corrupted
    The Fallen

    Or something along those lines.
    Why can you not put into the game outfits either the same or similar to evil NPC outfits
    Such as The Dourhand outfit in Dwarf/Elf prologue, The Black Numenorian or Variag outfits (these are some of the most visually beautiful armor in the game)
    You could make them exclusive to the store, a full Black Numenorian outfit such as you see on the mobs in Annuminas. I would easily pay 2995 LP for a full outfit like that.

    Im begging you SSG please allow for an Evil role-playing style through outfits, titles and perhaps even Heritage. I think the fact we can only be heroes and there is only heroic armor (bar Mordor gear) a bit linear in a world were gaming now offers players so much option in customization.

    Please don't anybody mention creep side, when I so obviously mean pve.

    Thank you for reading.

    Aeradil. / Khelthod. Of Evernight

  2. #2
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    Way back in the early days of development, when they were still calling it Middle-earth Online, the devs considered a process whereby a player character, by his actions over time, could descend into evil, like Saruman or Ted Sandyman. This would have been very Lore-appropriate, actually; here's what Eric Whittaker [ http://greatsfandf.com/AUTHORS/JRRTolkien.php ] says about the evil characters in LotR.

    Because we live in the times we live in, the concept of thoroughgoing evil seems less implausible than that of thoroughgoing good--indeed, scarcely notable. Altogether too many SF&F tales are inhabited by villains beside whom Snidely Whiplash looks a piker: they gloat, they chortle, they torture and burn and #### and [fill in the blanks], they do everything but actually twirl their mustachios while ordering the heroine out into the driving snow. Why? Because otherwise the writer's heroes would have to get honest day jobs; there is no other reason. But--and this is extremely important in Tolkien's scheme of things--his "utterly evil" creatures are in fact no such things. Tolkien's dark characters are, to a one, beings once capable of great good; indeed, it is virtually a rule: the deeper in evil they are, the higher in good they once were and could yet have been. His characters' great enemies are not mindlessly evil: they are fallen beings, one and all, beings seduced from the good by temptations. The true tragedy is not the harms they do--it is them, their falls, their lost potential.
    It would have been an interesting take on character development. But the idea was eventually scrapped, IIRC because it would make the code too complicated.

    It was only in the last stage of development that PvMP was introduced (to the great disappointment of many on the beta forums), and carefully quarantined in a separate reality. From the first Turbine game (Asheron's Call) onward, Turbine > SSG have always made PvP consensual. You have to choose to participate in it. And you have to do it away from the rest of the game, on the Moors.

    You may find it disappointing; but in this game, we are all playing the good guys.
    Last edited by djheydt; Sep 15 2018 at 01:19 AM.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone
    www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

  3. #3
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    One big thing is this is an example extremely story oriented game. Our part is supporting the fellowship as it makes its way to Mount Doom.

    There is just no leeway to play an evil character.

    Granted, there has been a lot of creative licensing, but this would be extreme.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  4. #4
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    Never knew that, that was their intention when I found LOTRO 11years ago. that would have been great.

    However, I am not asking for the ability to be evil. I don't mean physically role-play by ignoring quests because they are what a good character would do, or asking for the ability to burn down The Shire.

    I am asking for the ability to look/dress like an Evil character, I would love the ability to use 'Evil' Surnames/Titles, or even actual Lore Surnames, so people can understand the outfits we have gone for, I have currently mashed together an Angmarim Outfit, that looks probably nothing like an Angmarim Outfit to others, but the ability to have the Surname - Angmarim, would allow people to see that.

    Or better yet, provide us with awesome cosmetics that as I said could be store exclusives so they can earn more money, that are 'Evil Cosmetics' so as to create an Evil backstory for our characters.

    My post is wholly about Appearance/Cosmetics + titles, not the actual ability to roleplay as evil.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    One big thing is this is an example extremely story oriented game. Our part is supporting the fellowship as it makes its way to Mount Doom.

    There is just no leeway to play an evil character.

    Granted, there has been a lot of creative licensing, but this would be extreme.
    Im merely asking for the ability, to look like an evil charcter, not be one.

    But I believe it is viable to have an Evil backstory, look at Saruman for example, he went against Sauron in his attempts to gain power for himself..

    We are helping the downfall of Sauron in our attempts to gain power.

    My 'Evil Dwarf' has basically helped the heroes, in his attempts to find a source of power in order to return the Dourhands to glory. He came close when he tried to take the rings from Saruman, or when he tried to harness the power of Thaurlach, and the nameless things within the depths of Moria, he searched within the treasure horde of the watcher and smaug. for example (random things thought up on the spot, so don't think i spent ages thinking of that, i know they sound dumb), but there are reasons that evil characters can aid the free peoples.

    As stated above, im not asking that they invent a sideline for people playing evil characters, just provide us with the opportunity to dress like one, and use ''evil titles'' or to have titles that would indicate Allegiances with dark factions

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Eowene View Post
    Dear SSG staff who may or may not read this.

    I speak for myself here as I do not know how others feel about such things.

    I have always been a lover of villains and my favorite characters Tolkien's 'The Lord of the Rings' are The Witch-King of Angmar and of course Sauron himself. Even in your very own 'The Lord of the Rings Online' which I have played since beta 11 years ago, LOTRO has created some spectacular villains in Amarthiel and Mordirith and others of course, but to me they are the stand out villains.

    However we players have only ever been given the ability to dress or title ourselves as heroes, yes there are Mordor armor sets I know, but im not a fan. We have a huge lack of Heritage options, why can we not be from Rhun or Harad for example. Why can we not allow for players to title themselves as loyal to evil factions, for example, my Dwarf is an 'evil dwarf' or at least as evil as I can make him, with almost no titles or outfits to support it.
    Why can you not allow us to have titles such as
    Dourhand Loyalist
    Black Numenorian
    Man of Harad
    Variag Mercenary
    The Corrupted
    The Fallen

    Or something along those lines.
    Why can you not put into the game outfits either the same or similar to evil NPC outfits
    Such as The Dourhand outfit in Dwarf/Elf prologue, The Black Numenorian or Variag outfits (these are some of the most visually beautiful armor in the game)
    You could make them exclusive to the store, a full Black Numenorian outfit such as you see on the mobs in Annuminas. I would easily pay 2995 LP for a full outfit like that.

    Im begging you SSG please allow for an Evil role-playing style through outfits, titles and perhaps even Heritage. I think the fact we can only be heroes and there is only heroic armor (bar Mordor gear) a bit linear in a world were gaming now offers players so much option in customization.

    Please don't anybody mention creep side, when I so obviously mean pve.

    Thank you for reading.

    Aeradil. / Khelthod. Of Evernight
    A true roleplayer, what we call heavy rp, dont bother about titles, names or anything Else floating above your head, because they are not there if you roleplay correctly. What you want goes towards god mode, meaning you know stuff you are not supposed to know.

    As for cosmetic, there are tons of stuff you can use, even if it is wrong level or wrong class. Just toss it into your wardrobe.

  7. #7
    We roleplay a variety of chars in our personal/kinship stories who are considered villains to some degree, from Dunlendings to Haradrim and Easterlings. What kind of glorious heroes the game would have us to be never stopped us - and never will.
    At the moment we are building up kinship homes for those under the Shadow.


    Beornings have wonderful barber options for a different look (one reason almost each and every account of me owns that class). And some fine beginner's armour to use for tribal cosmetics.

    If you choose Dale or Gondor with the race of man you can go for a much darker complexion.

    The barber allows you to quickly change to different looks - useful for using a char for more than one role - onetime/short time villain


    Look at the ale association for some sinister titles. Bingo and Rep factions may have some good titles, too, if you really need them. Instances, too have a lot of titles. Sure, no Angmarin / Dourhand that I know of but perhaps there are other descriptive titles. Perhaps we will get more titles if / when we are going south again way after U23 (Harad, Rhun, Nurn rep factions perhaps?)

    If all fails, use the biography for a quick description of your char. For NPC like guards in an event we sometimes used an /afk text description.


    As for cosmetics:

    Strange / sinister looking helmets no real hero would use can be found in a lot of regions - one reason some of our chests are full with low level armour - to be used for villains

    Starting with Dunland there are tons of armours as quest and reputation rewards and rare drops that make fine cosmetics for Saruman's and Sauron's Forces: take a look, there are more :https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Dun..._Quartermaster

    Limlight Gorge rep rewards are great for Easterlings - cosmetic armour, horses, even housing item: https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Arcil

    There is other armour before Mordor - take a look at the barterers of the Host of the West for example.

    Skirmish barterers for cosmetics and classic are great sources, too. Even festivals may have nice rewards, be it cosmetics or war steed cosmetics - one reason to grind them to be able to use a char as hero and a counterpart in our stories.


    This game is a great playground for roleplaying with tons of cosmetics, the wardrobe and such.
    Last edited by Derquin; Sep 14 2018 at 11:59 AM.

  8. #8
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    Jun 2011
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    275
    Well this is the closest I can get to an Angmarim Appearance, its not bad. but im not overly satisfied, I really want the outfits that they have in Annuminas, I would easily spend money to look like that.

    https://ibb.co/kXBEjp
    https://ibb.co/i6MEjp
    https://ibb.co/eRSn4p

  9. #9
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    1,008
    Quote Originally Posted by Eowene View Post
    Well this is the closest I can get to an Angmarim Appearance, its not bad. but im not overly satisfied, I really want the outfits that they have in Annuminas, I would easily spend money to look like that.

    https://ibb.co/kXBEjp
    https://ibb.co/i6MEjp
    https://ibb.co/eRSn4p
    If you just want a title for that, maybe use 'Warlord of Angmar'

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eowene View Post
    Never knew that, that was their intention when I found LOTRO 11years ago. that would have been great.

    However, I am not asking for the ability to be evil. I don't mean physically role-play by ignoring quests because they are what a good character would do, or asking for the ability to burn down The Shire.

    I am asking for the ability to look/dress like an Evil character, I would love the ability to use 'Evil' Surnames/Titles, or even actual Lore Surnames, so people can understand the outfits we have gone for, I have currently mashed together an Angmarim Outfit, that looks probably nothing like an Angmarim Outfit to others, but the ability to have the Surname - Angmarim, would allow people to see that.

    Or better yet, provide us with awesome cosmetics that as I said could be store exclusives so they can earn more money, that are 'Evil Cosmetics' so as to create an Evil backstory for our characters.

    My post is wholly about Appearance/Cosmetics + titles, not the actual ability to roleplay as evil.
    Okay, thanks for clarifying that. You are now free to examine all the cosmetic garb in Middle-earth, and see what items (to your eye) most look like the bad guy you want to resemble.

    Titles, ethnic labels, et cetera are granted by the system, so I don't think you can get "Angmarim," which is already applied to a large number of mobs and NPCs.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone
    www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KM3161 View Post
    If you just want a title for that, maybe use 'Warlord of Angmar'
    If the system will award that title (for completing deeds in Angmar, maybe?) that would work. If not, not.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone
    www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    If the system will award that title (for completing deeds in Angmar, maybe?) that would work. If not, not.
    It's from the Uruk slayer deed in Angmar.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KM3161 View Post
    If you just want a title for that, maybe use 'Warlord of Angmar'
    Thank you kindly, sir!

    I have to admit I have no idea how I had forgotten about this title. It was my favorite title 11years ago on my champ

    I am a 100% completionist, so having looked through all my deeds on my mains trying to find SoA titles that would work, I must have just skim-read over this one

    I could kiss you!!, but well, Im not one for human contact, so, maybe another time

    Aeradil, Warlord of Angmar
    'Devout of the Lidless Eye'

    Khelthod Fell-Beard
    'Northern Kingdoms'

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eowene View Post
    Khelthod Fell-Beard
    His beard looks like he's got an animal pelt stuck to his face?

    (I kid you not, it can be read that way and Tolkien does use it in that sense from time to time, as in 'unclean beast-fell')

    Seriously though, RP hint here with nicknames of that sort, think them through - 'fell' means terrible or deadly, hardly a quality that facial hair is known for (either literally or metaphorically). Like someone's gaze might be said to be fell, because it promised death, or someone's heart might said to be fell if they were full of dark and murderous rage, and other cool-sounding things like 'Fell-blade' work too, obviously but sorry, not quite seeing how a beard could be either deadly in itself or so betoken death that people would focus on that in particular and decide to call him that. That's the thing about such names, it'd be what other people called them rather than something they picked themselves. Like Harald Bluetooth is reckoned to have been called that because he had a conspicuous bad tooth so that was far from flattering. And if you try too hard for something cool-sounding, it'll end up being naff instead. Remember Taserface in GotG 2? Don't be Taserface

    (As for the thread - dress in black and act all lofty, proud and scornful and there you have it, instant Tolkien bad guy. Just ask the devs nicely for a cosmetic outfit or two)

  15. #15
    It would be kind of cool if you could cast a "spell" or ability of some sorts that would change your appearance into that of an orc... or other evil aligned characters. It would also be cool that if you did so in say a town like Bree, you would quickly find the guards descending upon you, so you better watch out where you cast said spell or ability. These spells/abilities could be earned in-game, e.g by means of doing the harvestmath festival.... to give it that little halloween dressup nudge.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  16. #16
    To quote Sting & Andy Summers/The Police: "All our greatest killers were industrious. At least the ones that we all know by name." ("Murder by Numbers", Synchronicity, A&M, 1983. Emphasis mine.)

    The most evil character I RP has a pudding bowl haircut. You can be magnitudes more deceptive if you don't look dodgy.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    It would be kind of cool if you could cast a "spell" or ability of some sorts that would change your appearance into that of an orc... or other evil aligned characters. It would also be cool that if you did so in say a town like Bree, you would quickly find the guards descending upon you, so you better watch out where you cast said spell or ability. These spells/abilities could be earned in-game, e.g by means of doing the harvestmath festival.... to give it that little halloween dressup nudge.
    Easier, I think, to go to the Haunted Burrow during the season, and get some of the masks and cloaks you can get from its quests. I wore the cloak and mask of the Raven for a while after I got them, and they still live in my Wardrobe.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone
    www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eowene View Post
    Dear SSG staff who may or may not read this.

    I speak for myself here as I do not know how others feel about such things.

    I have always been a lover of villains and my favorite characters Tolkien's 'The Lord of the Rings' are The Witch-King of Angmar and of course Sauron himself. Even in your very own 'The Lord of the Rings Online' which I have played since beta 11 years ago, LOTRO has created some spectacular villains in Amarthiel and Mordirith and others of course, but to me they are the stand out villains.

    However we players have only ever been given the ability to dress or title ourselves as heroes, yes there are Mordor armor sets I know, but im not a fan. We have a huge lack of Heritage options, why can we not be from Rhun or Harad for example. Why can we not allow for players to title themselves as loyal to evil factions, for example, my Dwarf is an 'evil dwarf' or at least as evil as I can make him, with almost no titles or outfits to support it.
    Why can you not allow us to have titles such as
    Dourhand Loyalist
    Black Numenorian
    Man of Harad
    Variag Mercenary
    The Corrupted
    The Fallen

    Or something along those lines.
    Why can you not put into the game outfits either the same or similar to evil NPC outfits
    Such as The Dourhand outfit in Dwarf/Elf prologue, The Black Numenorian or Variag outfits (these are some of the most visually beautiful armor in the game)
    You could make them exclusive to the store, a full Black Numenorian outfit such as you see on the mobs in Annuminas. I would easily pay 2995 LP for a full outfit like that.

    Im begging you SSG please allow for an Evil role-playing style through outfits, titles and perhaps even Heritage. I think the fact we can only be heroes and there is only heroic armor (bar Mordor gear) a bit linear in a world were gaming now offers players so much option in customization.

    Please don't anybody mention creep side, when I so obviously mean pve.

    Thank you for reading.

    Aeradil. / Khelthod. Of Evernight
    i always thought this was what the ettenmoors was for... or is this a case of i want a free car, make it blue with leather seats, and a V8....oh if it's a buick then forget it...
    just a reminder... anything playable, doable, and actionable, may be considered an exploit and the ban-hammer may be authorized at any and all moments.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hetweith View Post
    i always thought this was what the ettenmoors was for... or is this a case of i want a free car, make it blue with leather seats, and a V8....oh if it's a buick then forget it...
    If you read the top post, I specifically say pve only...

    I do know about pvp believe it or not, in the top post you will also see that i said ive played for 11years.

    I have 1 of every creep stretching from r9-r12 (which have not logged on in 4 years), and all of which (ofc bar defiler) which were created within a few months after LOTRO's launch at the Corruption Pool. When i was bored of swimming across Evendim

    So rather than skim-reading past important parts, and then calling me cheap? for not paying for creeps? assuming im a f2p, when i am not nor have I ever been. read the full post??

    If i wanted to pvp I would. What I want is to look like an Evil character. I dont really know why everybody has misunderstood my top post so much and is thinking i want to play an evil character in pve.

    It would also be a great opportunity for SSG to make more money in the store, by selling such cosmetics as the npcs wear good/evil.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eowene View Post
    If you read the top post, I specifically say pve only...

    I do know about pvp believe it or not, in the top post you will also see that i said ive played for 11years.

    I have 1 of every creep stretching from r9-r12 (which have not logged on in 4 years), and all of which (ofc bar defiler) which were created within a few months after LOTRO's launch at the Corruption Pool. When i was bored of swimming across Evendim

    So rather than skim-reading past important parts, and then calling me cheap? for not paying for creeps? assuming im a f2p, when i am not nor have I ever been. read the full post??

    If i wanted to pvp I would. What I want is to look like an Evil character. I dont really know why everybody has misunderstood my top post so much and is thinking i want to play an evil character in pve.

    It would also be a great opportunity for SSG to make more money in the store, by selling such cosmetics as the npcs wear good/evil.
    please show me the quote that said you were cheap? or that i assumed you were FTP? my statement in essence was there is a vehicle to RP as an evil faction. called the ettenmoors. and you can PvE there like many do, so why not RP there?
    just a reminder... anything playable, doable, and actionable, may be considered an exploit and the ban-hammer may be authorized at any and all moments.

  21. #21
    You'll find many of the same posters find their way into threads like this because they oppose anything that isn't part of the their idea of what good and evil represents. Some will say it out right you cannot have this or do that in LotRO because reasons, but really its their value based thinking that is present and speaking for them. What most of those same posters choose to ignore is that good and evil are points of perspective and are often subjective from their point and its origin. Without going into specifics about human history, this is often true where one place regionally will consider some great fighter or commander in history a hero, there is always another who will consider the same person a villain.

    There is true good which comes from selfless acts yielding no reward and there is true evil which covets only for self gain. Even so within those two markers are a convoluted existence where the lines blur and this is where the subjective experience places a person on one side or the other. Often times both ends of this spectrum leaves many in their wake as victims and survival in not certain. Which says that even the most honorable intent has its inherent evils. Flip side, evil intents can always yield benefits not for seen in its aftermath.

    Tolkien understood this and chose to tell his story from the side perception of Good. I'd guess this started due to the person he was and his upbringing. Also since he started all this to tell stories amongst friends and to tell his own children "good" stories. With that said it is ignored a lot that the evils in his fictional world were only as evil as their creators. Which says evil was bound to be part of the duplicity. The dichotomy couldn't exist without it. Example, Melkor and Manwe was one good and one evil? Or were they parts completing a whole that which is Eru? If they are part of something in its wholeness then which is truly good and which is truly evil? We know this answer because of the viewpoint from where the story is told from, however that doesn't make it a fact. If some one ask Tolkien this question and he gave this answer, it is only true for him and possibly not another. Once the story is told it is for the reader or listener to decide. This is how his fictional world came about when he was young man in college telling stories with college friends while drinking and smoking to all the late hours.

    Melkor was independent and didn't follow the lead of others. Eru gave him this. When the song was played for Eru, Melkor's independence (expressed through discord) given to him by his creator allowed him to be creative. Afterall Melkor was initially endowed with all the parts of the rest and even his name says so. So it stands that he would arise above the others and appear to be mighty or mightier. Its was only when Eru rebuked Melkor for his independence did evil come into existence. The Ainur were but children and had Eru went about this moment in a different manner the greatness of things might have turned out very much different. Evil's could have been supplanted but the story teller needed a bad,evil character to highlight the concept of good.

    It is interesting that the Tolkien world has the stature as being in the top five of all publications. I can't help but to wonder where other publications in this recent era will find their place among this list of publications in future years. Recent publications where the authors don't subscribe to the notion that good is good and evil is evil just because. GRR Martin sure loves to kill off supposed good guys just the same as bad guys. In his world it's really hard to tell who is on what side if in fact their is a side.


    To the OP. You'll not get what you want and here is why. One, is because of the view point the story is told by from its author. SSG wont do it because they have guidelines to stay within to keep the authors integrity in tact. Two, the players who are attracted to this side of dichotomy will fight tooth and nail to keep their vision of what this game should be. Three, this game is nearing its end cycle of life and to make such a change would alienate a percent of the playerbase and SSG can't endure that with all the ongoing problems atm. Kind of sad really considering the whole premise of the story and the game requires bad guys to exist. You just cant be one in the larger world that is Middle Earth
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

 

 

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