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Thread: @Vastin

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maryam View Post
    It clearly did once have superior PvP and raiding, back in the day, WoW seriously considered Lotro a threat, SoA and Moria instances were premium A+++ quality for the MMOs at the time. Then the catering to casuals began, over the half the servers closed, and even the quality of the landscape and quest writing went into the pits as well, the game only continued to limp along because it had Tolkien lore for a bedrock, but the lore is almost exhausted, as the main story has ended, and we will reduced to going to ever more marginal areas.
    I find that amusing for you to say, considering the overwhelming majority of SoA had nothing to do with the main story. Angmar, Forochel, even the content we have in Moria. We barely touch the "real" main story until we pop out behind the Fellowship in the Great River and follow them into Rohan to Helm's Deep and beyond. Of anything, it is my opinion that being so intertwined with the real main story limited creativity quite a bit, and now that we have finished the main story we can get back to storytelling of the level of Eriador. Landscape quality is vastly improved over what it used to be. Old LOTRO areas sport graphics that are 11 years old. Newer areas are at least attempting (as much as they can with the game engine and whatnot) to improve the graphics.

    I also rather doubt LOTRO was ever comparable to WoW, at least not in terms of subscription or active player counts, and from what I understand PvMP was an afterthought in this game. Regardless, as it stands now, all MMO's are suffering -- the genre itself is losing momentum. First MOBA's now mobile gaming. Back in the early days, computer gaming was a thing for geeks. Gradually more people became involved as accessibility became a thing. The only way for it to have stayed hardcore only would be for the genre to remain stuck in the early 2000's or even the 80's-90's, with the old MUDs, where only the hardcores/geeks participated.
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    115 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/61 BUR Dhax/115 WDN Godoric
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    No matter how high parses could be, that doesn't mean it is the norm for most players. Saying someone is inept, needs to learn to play their class, etc. because they don't min-max and get those high parses is elitist.
    Min-maxing and high parses have nothing to do with 'learn to play'.
    I can't recall seeing this mentioned either.
    High parses were posted because they are useful for class balancing , by showing the devs what a maxed char is capable of.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    I find that amusing for you to say, considering the overwhelming majority of SoA had nothing to do with the main story
    Strange you seem to consider following in the footsteps of the fellowship and the plethora of iconic locations included within SoA as having "nothing" to do with the main story.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeviternus View Post
    Receiving a permanent suspension for merely arguing with people on an online gaming forum made me realise that the LotRO community is seemingly not interested in debates and argument. Arguments can get heated, and apparently, that is too much for some people to handle. I thought words were just words, and some well placed sarcasm would be entertaining, more so than insulting. I was wrong. This forum is now, more than ever, an echo chamber. A safe space where no one is allowed to actively criticise someone else's views. That's not a place that I want to be a part of, so I will mostly refrain from posting on here from now on.

    Yes, I argued a lot with people, and those arguments would get dragged out for several pages sometimes. Fair enough, I guess that potentially justifies a permanent suspension, if the moderator so pleases. However, I think it evident that most of the people who were suspended in fact sparked discussion and debate, more than anything else. It's not like these arguments were pointless (from a game developer's point of view). I think it's disgraceful that I was suspended for discussing something concerning hunters, on the hunter forums. If you do not believe me, here is a link to the post that got me banned (it was removed from the forums).

    Ultimately, however, I think we are not the ones who lose out by being banned. It's the LotRO community that is losing active members who did not shy away from voicing their opinions, and defending their views. This game is dying, and has been for years. Silencing what few voices of reason (I think I can say that without being overly narcissistic) this forum has left is a good way to speed up the process. Let it be a message to everyone that this game's team isn't interested in the opinions of end game players. Whether that is raiding or PvMP. You're just an annoyance to them. And if you speak out loudly enough, you'll get silenced for merely trying to have a discussion.
    ###... I remember that post... and it was completely on point.
    You simply showed that the person you argued with was wrong in several things, and not even in an offensive way, compared to others and even the person you argued with... how does that get a ban? Who's responsible for this nonsense?
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    Min-maxing and high parses have nothing to do with 'learn to play'.
    I can't recall seeing this mentioned either.
    High parses were posted because they are useful for class balancing , by showing the devs what a maxed char is capable of.
    True, but it is a common theme that I have seen quite often where if you can't get a certain parse then you must be doing something wrong. That getting gear is part of learning to play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohemond71 View Post
    Strange you seem to consider following in the footsteps of the fellowship and the plethora of iconic locations included within SoA as having "nothing" to do with the main story.
    Read again, I said overwhelming majority. The Fellowship did not go to Forochel, Evendim, Angmar, Misty Mountains (that part of them anyway), Ered Luin, or the North Downs, and a significant part of the story in the other areas had little to do with following the Fellowship. Yes ultimately the enemies we faced, such as Amarthiel, were on Sauron's side, but they weren't presented in the books themselves. So yes, the vast majority had little to do with the real LOTR story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    ###... I remember that post... and it was completely on point.
    You simply showed that the person you argued with was wrong in several things, and not even in an offensive way, compared to others and even the person you argued with... how does that get a ban? Who's responsible for this nonsense?
    If I were to hazard a guess, (and assuming I'm reading it correctly) I'd say the part where they said "you're trying so hard it's adorable" likely contributed, as that only serves to belittle whomever they were talking to. They say it themselves, sarcasm for entertainment. Their entertainment. Not the entertainment of whomever they were speaking to. The very first rules of this forum are be nice and respect others. That type of sarcasm, while amusing for the speaker, does not meet either guideline. Its disappointing, really, that more people can't present their case without such "entertaining sarcasm" for their own benefit.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 115 MNS Fayah/115 LM Siennah/115 HNT Dinenol/115 RK Dhurik
    115 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/61 BUR Dhax/115 WDN Godoric
    R9 115 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  6. #56
    Derailing a thread. Where does that fit in the scheme of things?

    Isn't that in itself a slight upon the threads creation and its creator?

    The subjective qualities inherent in the moderation and its moderator should be a non factor but alas we are humans.
    Most are guilty of this transgression including myself. Others are often intentional and at times seem expected. Possibly even endorsed.


    Snowlock the Hunter will survive. Enjoy it for what its worth.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    Derailing a thread. Where does that fit in the scheme of things?

    Isn't that in itself a slight upon the threads creation and its creator?

    The subjective qualities inherent in the moderation and its moderator should be a non factor but alas we are humans.
    Most are guilty of this transgression including myself. Others are often intentional and at times seem expected. Possibly even endorsed.


    Snowlock the Hunter will survive. Enjoy it for what its worth.
    Yeah I think that happened back on page one. I'm not sure what the longevity of this topic really would be anyway. I had moments similar to what the OP description on other classes, most notably the RK after HD but also the LM at the same time. I am still annoyed at how the RK gam mchanics were changed so drastically in terms of attunement and skill selection.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 115 MNS Fayah/115 LM Siennah/115 HNT Dinenol/115 RK Dhurik
    115 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/61 BUR Dhax/115 WDN Godoric
    R9 115 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    Derailing a thread.
    If I create threads, the topic is in the title... therefore this isnt really a thread with a topic at all
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    Read again, I said overwhelming majority. The Fellowship did not go to Forochel, Evendim, Angmar, Misty Mountains (that part of them anyway), Ered Luin, or the North Downs
    Once was enough. That is hardly an "overwhelming majority" when compared with all the iconic locations throughout the rest of SoA. Just off the top of my head: Bag End, Party Tree, Hobbiton, Farmer Maggot, Brandywine bridge, Buckland, Old Forest, Barrow Downs, Bree, Forsaken Inn, Weathertop, Last Bridge, Bilbo's Trolls, Rivendell.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohemond71 View Post
    Once was enough. That is hardly an "overwhelming majority" when compared with all the iconic locations throughout the rest of SoA. Just off the top of my head: Bag End, Party Tree, Hobbiton, Farmer Maggot, Brandywine bridge, Buckland, Old Forest, Barrow Downs, Bree, Forsaken Inn, Weathertop, Last Bridge, Bilbo's Trolls, Rivendell.
    Lol you are naming specific locations. If each location gets a flag on the map then the number of flags that have nothing to do with the Fellowship vastly outnumber those that do.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 115 MNS Fayah/115 LM Siennah/115 HNT Dinenol/115 RK Dhurik
    115 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/61 BUR Dhax/115 WDN Godoric
    R9 115 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    True, but it is a common theme that I have seen quite often where if you can't get a certain parse then you must be doing something wrong. That getting gear is part of learning to play.
    I've never seen this theme but perhaps i missed it. Not in Lotro at least.
    And on this game , getting gear is not part of learning to play.
    Perhaps it used to be to some extent , not anymore. There is very limited gear like that left if any at all.
    If you inspect someone nowadays you can rarely tell if he knows how to play, or at least whether he understands his class.
    You can sometimes figure out who is terrible , granted , but not who is good.
    Since most of the gear can be acquired through pay 2 win , grind , dailies , auction house and some jewels from thrang runs ( RNG ), i can't recall of any gear that requires knowing the game well ever since throne of the dread terror and before north ithilien flower grind.
    Perhaps the 337 gold rings ? At least those show the player that has them has actually raided multiple times.
    The rest only require 1 t2 non challenge run with just 1 character. That's the only real gameplay limitation for best gear.

    Whether that's good or not , my opinion doesn't matter i guess but i find it terrible design that reduces longetivity on group content and diminishes the effort -> reward principle that sustains MMOs when it comes to end-game PVE.
    E-peen is important for many gamers if you expect them to invest time and money for your game.
    Lotro does not cut it anymore.
    Last edited by BotLike; Jul 13 2018 at 08:33 AM.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    And Vastin, this guy thinks it's at least the 11'th worst. Given that there were 10 worse updates, but that's not hyperbole either, cause he knows what that is.
    . . .
    I never said they didn't hit hard, creep. I said they were clunky and slow.

    Oh ps, you understand audacity as much as this other guys does hyperbole.
    If the OP were serious about class feedback to the dev, it would be left in Bullroarer class-appropriate thread (which devs do check) and contain technical details to support the claims made. But oh... far fewer forum users read Bullroarer class threads, the provocation would fail unless it were posted in general.


    That being said...
    I do hope zipfile and siiperi are just not posting for a while of their own choosing. Their technical mechanics talk has always been a breath of fresh air in class discussions, whether agree or disagree those folks know what they're talking about and can back it up.

    Really surprised at the hate and vitriol, actually, from posters here who claim zipfile and siiperi have been "banned" (with zero evidence, to boot). Looking at the name list of allegedly "banned" posters (zipfile, siiperi, Hejaza.Arkenstone, DKenny, Joedangod who's actually not banned at all), these are ALL folks who can articulate their thoughts in well-argued points and moreover can back it up. They talk substance, not wishy-washy generics. They don't back down from their position just because someone else gets their panties in a twist over having a poorly-formed argument turned over.

    Appears that some people are so used to being agreed with, they flip over anyone who dares to think for themselves. To the point of propagating rumors that those posters are now "banned." It's incredible, the irony. Pointing an accusing finger at those posters (whose posts have always been on-point) and calling for their heads, haters gonna hate.

    Just accept it's an international forum, with international audience. Not to mention, it's the internet. Anyone getting "upset" over "manners" should start with policing themselves, instead of dictating to others how to behave and instead of imposing their own values on others. Life is not fair. Internet is even less so.

    If anyone is butthurt over online discussion with any of the above-mentioned folks, it's probably with good reason to be honest. Someone easily upset will be easily upset no matter what the source. As Eleanor Roosevelt once said: "Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent."

    Quote Originally Posted by miriadel View Post
    Categorizing players on the raiding and pvp scene with names like elitist, jerks, no lifers, there's enough evidence in many threads of the constant back and forth. And why should one side get infractions and not the other? Just look at the blue hunters threads (the most recent and glaring episodes), where the people against the changes jumped at the throats of the ones whole liked them, when presented with hard data to counter their argument. And disregarded the criticism, even when told in a more amicable way, as these elitist jerks trying to make fun of them... and even jumping at Vastin's throat. And with this I'll go. Whatever the reason for a ban on the forums, it should never happen out of spite
    100%

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    Min-maxing and high parses have nothing to do with 'learn to play'.
    I can't recall seeing this mentioned either.
    High parses were posted because they are useful for class balancing , by showing the devs what a maxed char is capable of.
    I concur with this. When class balancing happens, the devs want parses that reflect what a maxed hunter/champ/warden etc. is capable of.
    What they don't want is some random newbie with purple gear posting their parse, then saying class is underpowered, and that it needs to be buffed/made easier.

    But many people who are in fact, undergeared or inept at their class, give feedback stating that the class changes are "terrible" and that it all needs to be "reverted to previous update", when in reality the class is in a good place. It is comments like these that draw additional commentary from the skilled players, who may respond with "git gud scrub" or whatever.

    THEN, the inept or undergeared player responds angrily and cries about being insulted/trolled and hits report button. (If anyone has seen John Cleese video on stupidity, that explains this entire situation very well. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU)

    It doesn't just come out of nowhere, you know.

  14. #64
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    zipfile was banned

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelir View Post
    If the OP were serious about class feedback to the dev, it would be left in Bullroarer class-appropriate thread (which devs do check) and contain technical details to support the claims made. But oh... far fewer forum users read Bullroarer class threads, the provocation would fail unless it were posted in general.


    That being said...
    I do hope zipfile and siiperi are just not posting for a while of their own choosing...
    zipfile got banned.
    Edit: proper screenshots

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by valkrye View Post
    I concur with this. When class balancing happens, the devs want parses that reflect what a maxed hunter/champ/warden etc. is capable of.
    What they don't want is some random newbie with purple gear posting their parse, then saying class is underpowered, and that it needs to be buffed/made easier.

    But many people who are in fact, undergeared or inept at their class, give feedback stating that the class changes are "terrible" and that it all needs to be "reverted to previous update", when in reality the class is in a good place. It is comments like these that draw additional commentary from the skilled players, who may respond with "git gud scrub" or whatever.

    THEN, the inept or undergeared player responds angrily and cries about being insulted/trolled and hits report button. (If anyone has seen John Cleese video on stupidity, that explains this entire situation very well. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU)

    It doesn't just come out of nowhere, you know.
    What is “parses”? I tried Googling it(I’m on my phone) but all I get is that a parses is a section of a sentence or series of instructions?
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    What is “parses”? I tried Googling it(I’m on my phone) but all I get is that a parses is a section of a sentence or series of instructions?
    A parse is a collection of data which shows the amount of damage output over a length of time.
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    A parse is a collection of data which shows the amount of damage output over a length of time.
    Ahhh ok, so now I understand what he was talking about. Thanks for answering!
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelir View Post
    If the OP were serious about class feedback to the dev, it would be left in Bullroarer class-appropriate thread (which devs do check) and contain technical details to support the claims made. But oh... far fewer forum users read Bullroarer class threads, the provocation would fail unless it were posted in general.
    If the OP? You can just ask me you know. beauty of the internet and all.

    I am interested in class feedback. I participated in the bullroarer thread and I followed it's rules. I was ignored while those who did not follow its rules saw a few of their suggestions taken. To the determinent of the class, which, unironically was their intent all along. Keeping in mind this comment is being left general because but doesn't not include all.

    What technical details do you require when I say they class feels clunky and slow? If you have a unit of measurement for clunky, please illuminate me. Sometimes, it's not about the numbers, it's about the feel of the class.

    I resent your idea that I'm just looking for your attention, which is why I posted in the general forums. I posted here so Vastin would read it. Whether you do or not is purely irrelevant to me, I promise you and I find it funny you think you're that important.

    And holy cow guys, I'm not the derailing police, but lol...

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    I've never seen this theme but perhaps i missed it. Not in Lotro at least.
    And on this game , getting gear is not part of learning to play.
    Perhaps it used to be to some extent , not anymore. There is very limited gear like that left if any at all.
    If you inspect someone nowadays you can rarely tell if he knows how to play, or at least whether he understands his class.
    You can sometimes figure out who is terrible , granted , but not who is good.
    Since most of the gear can be acquired through pay 2 win , grind , dailies , auction house and some jewels from thrang runs ( RNG ), i can't recall of any gear that requires knowing the game well ever since throne of the dread terror and before north ithilien flower grind.
    Perhaps the 337 gold rings ? At least those show the player that has them has actually raided multiple times.
    The rest only require 1 t2 non challenge run with just 1 character. That's the only real gameplay limitation for best gear.

    Whether that's good or not , my opinion doesn't matter i guess but i find it terrible design that reduces longetivity on group content and diminishes the effort -> reward principle that sustains MMOs when it comes to end-game PVE.
    E-peen is important for many gamers if you expect them to invest time and money for your game.
    Lotro does not cut it anymore.
    Don't get me wrong, I fully agree with you. I do not feel that way, but there are those who do and I've encountered far too many of them in a number of different MMO's. Having maxed gear doesn't make you a fantastic player. If you have the gold for it, you can buy your way almost all the way to max. I typically only associate gear with understanding the class when I see agility players stacking will or something strange like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by valkrye View Post
    I concur with this. When class balancing happens, the devs want parses that reflect what a maxed hunter/champ/warden etc. is capable of.
    What they don't want is some random newbie with purple gear posting their parse, then saying class is underpowered, and that it needs to be buffed/made easier.

    But many people who are in fact, undergeared or inept at their class, give feedback stating that the class changes are "terrible" and that it all needs to be "reverted to previous update", when in reality the class is in a good place. It is comments like these that draw additional commentary from the skilled players, who may respond with "git gud scrub" or whatever.

    THEN, the inept or undergeared player responds angrily and cries about being insulted/trolled and hits report button. (If anyone has seen John Cleese video on stupidity, that explains this entire situation very well. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU)

    It doesn't just come out of nowhere, you know.
    I agree that knowing the high parses lets devs know what they are capable of. This helps balance the class to itself (skill to skill) as well as to other classes. However, even if the parses are linear, the devs need to know where on the slope the compromise has to be. The best selection of parses should have multiple tiers. Here's what I can do maxed (for the sake of argument, let's call maxed T2C-worthy), here's what I can do at T2 gear levels, here's what I can do at T1 gear levels, etc. Landscape (and tiered content) can't be designed with maxed players in mind, because that will rapidly cut out huge swathes of players.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 115 MNS Fayah/115 LM Siennah/115 HNT Dinenol/115 RK Dhurik
    115 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/61 BUR Dhax/115 WDN Godoric
    R9 115 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decrepify View Post
    zipfile got banned.
    Edit: proper screenshots
    Thanks for fact-checking, though it is sad to hear. A big loss to the Guardian community. We need all voices and all perspectives here; sadder yet is that some feel so ''unsafe'' to be disagreed with they resort to reporting. A group ban targeting the demographic of knowledgeable, technically-minded players is indeed troubling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    If the OP? You can just ask me you know. beauty of the internet and all.
    ...
    I resent your idea that I'm just looking for your attention
    Haha, can't make this up.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    If the OP? You can just ask me you know. beauty of the internet and all.

    I am interested in class feedback. I participated in the bullroarer thread and I followed it's rules. I was ignored while those who did not follow its rules saw a few of their suggestions taken. To the determinent of the class, which, unironically was their intent all along. Keeping in mind this comment is being left general because but doesn't not include all.

    What technical details do you require when I say they class feels clunky and slow? If you have a unit of measurement for clunky, please illuminate me. Sometimes, it's not about the numbers, it's about the feel of the class.

    I resent your idea that I'm just looking for your attention, which is why I posted in the general forums. I posted here so Vastin would read it. Whether you do or not is purely irrelevant to me, I promise you and I find it funny you think you're that important.

    And holy cow guys, I'm not the derailing police, but lol...
    This is why I complain about the changes to blue hunter. Without Deadly Precision the spec feels off. There is no way to explain it. Numbers are not everything. And if it just was about them a simple nerf would have been enough. Instead we get a revamp.

    It's not just blue hunter btw. Concerning LM: Why change Wizard Fire? Why remove the heal on Power of Knowledge? Why remove the initial heal from Waterlore?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by wispsong View Post
    This is why I complain about the changes to blue hunter. Without Deadly Precision the spec feels off. There is no way to explain it. Numbers are not everything. And if it just was about them a simple nerf would have been enough. Instead we get a revamp.

    It's not just blue hunter btw. Concerning LM: Why change Wizard Fire? Why remove the heal on Power of Knowledge? Why remove the initial heal from Waterlore?
    To be honest, I get a subtle vibe that whoever is handling these classes now just has a totally different vision for the class than when it was originally created. All these changes that seem to make no sense whatsoever and potentially even change the entire feel of the class. Like the cappy and RK especially with HD -- attunement and the cappy no longer being a true jack of all trades.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 115 MNS Fayah/115 LM Siennah/115 HNT Dinenol/115 RK Dhurik
    115 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/61 BUR Dhax/115 WDN Godoric
    R9 115 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    Talking (negatively) about people in public who can no longer respond. . . keepin' it classy as always!



    --H
    If there's one thing people love more than the money, it's the drama.

    Anyway, if a hunter is surprised by any of this after 11 years I want to ask, "Where the hell have you been?" j/k kind of.... I mean really has there ever been a hunter class update that hasn't been painful in some way? I'm just happy my hunter can self heal a little now.
    Centuries ago, in primitive times, before the dawn of civilization, there were things that would be inconceivable to us today; such things as poverty, disease, violence, senility, and love.

 

 
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