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  1. #1
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    +3 Levels on t2c Bosses

    Raid bosses on t2c have always been 3 levels ahead of the players which promotes using actual strategies to kill the boss rather than just tank and spank, not sure why SSG downscaled all bosses to be on-level which makes content easier. Opinions?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by hanxcve View Post
    Raid bosses on t2c have always been 3 levels ahead of the players which promotes using actual strategies to kill the boss rather than just tank and spank, not sure why SSG downscaled all bosses to be on-level which makes content easier. Opinions?
    It was changed when the level scaling of items/enemies got a huge increase by each level. That caused that lvl 105 enemies (when it was level cap) required around 20k finesse, 25k crit and 25k mits while lvl 108 enemies required like 40k of each, so they had to downscale all the enemies in order to be doable unless you geared for a huge mit build that certainly wasn't intended in the first place.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    It was changed when the level scaling of items/enemies got a huge increase by each level. That caused that lvl 105 enemies (when it was level cap) required around 20k finesse, 25k crit and 25k mits while lvl 108 enemies required like 40k of each, so they had to downscale all the enemies in order to be doable unless you geared for a huge mit build that certainly wasn't intended in the first place.
    It changed with Mordor, because all t2c mobs in Throne are 108 mobs.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rimenuir View Post
    It changed with Mordor, because all t2c mobs in Throne are 108 mobs.
    are -> were


    It changed prior Mordor update. In every instance.
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  5. #5
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    It changed in a pre-Mordor update as they were implementing the new combat mechanics for the upcoming expansion. As mentioned earlier, this caused T2 bosses to require a massive increase in required stats. So they lowered the level of the bosses to offset this.
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  6. #6
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    Oooooof my bad
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caanjaal View Post
    It changed in a pre-Mordor update as they were implementing the new combat mechanics for the upcoming expansion. As mentioned earlier, this caused T2 bosses to require a massive increase in required stats. So they lowered the level of the bosses to offset this.
    This made t2c an actual challenge, point being: Should they add this back to future t2c instances?

  8. #8
    they dont need to add levels to bosses, they could simply make them harder with more stats if that was their intention.
    If SSG feels, T2c is too easy, they could increase the difference between T1 and T2 by making the factor higher than the current x2.5
    Or, as players asked for sometimes, create a T3, which is another big step harder than T2.

    Just like the idea behind skirmishes, just like its badly done there, as the difference between T1/T2/T3 skirms are too small steps.
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  9. #9
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    I liked rather initial idea behind t1 and t2, I believe it was in Orthanc cluster at level 75: t2 doesn´t have only better stats, but also more mechanics and thus it is more difficult.

    Pure stats increase is only being more difficult for the sake of difficult.

    Therefore, if there should be t3, I would like to be it more than just stat increase.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Estelrandir View Post
    I liked rather initial idea behind t1 and t2, I believe it was in Orthanc cluster at level 75: t2 doesn´t have only better stats, but also more mechanics and thus it is more difficult.

    Pure stats increase is only being more difficult for the sake of difficult.

    Therefore, if there should be t3, I would like to be it more than just stat increase.
    sure. but having higher levels on mobs only changes one of the most annoying mechanics: they get higher stats that players cant overcompensate.
    Afaik, against higherlevel targets, not only does one need higher ratings to cap things, but the achievable percentage caps are lower, too.
    I wouldnt even consider that mechanic.
    but yea, ideally, T2c should have all stats x2.5 plus additional mechanics.
    But actually, even the everything is x2.5 harder doesnt apply, as its the same for percentual damage and stuff like that.

    with 3 levels, its not that hard, but with 4 levels, another annoying mechanic starts: deflection... if you cant be sure that your skills hit, its not anymore about skill, its pure RNG.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Estelrandir View Post
    I liked rather initial idea behind t1 and t2, I believe it was in Orthanc cluster at level 75: t2 doesn´t have only better stats, but also more mechanics and thus it is more difficult.

    Pure stats increase is only being more difficult for the sake of difficult.

    Therefore, if there should be t3, I would like to be it more than just stat increase.
    As far as I know orthanc t2 had a minimal effect on the damage output on enemies compared to t1 when it was released on level. All t2 difficulty was based on added mechanics that you had to pay attention to. I mean, you didn't really get more damage from the enemies, there were just more enemies, more puddles, more wounds and so on. I really prefer that over the actual x2.5 on every stat of enemies. I'd rather have all enemies in future raids being the same in t2 and t1 with way more mechanics on t2 than t1. I don't know, taking mordath as an example:
    Defilers in t1 don't silence, Overseer buff is half of what it is now on t2, taskmasters don't spawn nurnoths, and examples like those that would make t1 substantially easier than t2 but without being completely faceroll... I honestly think current t1 pulls can be done 3 man with ease.
    As for bosses I don't know, t1 twins don't self heal if they get close though you cannot damage them, bosses got no timmer, only half of the spirits of the amount of t2 spawn. Supplicant buff is only 50% increase in t1 (even though there's only 1). T1 sagrog could be current t2, but he doesn't put a debuff on tank, adds spawn 1 by 1 with their corruptions removing half of what they do to tank morale and no aoe LoE debuff or really small one. Those are just examples, basically that means balance the game for t2 then just remove some mechanics for t1 without really changing the stats of the enemies that much.
    Still main issue resides in how challenge is meant for this game, basically in the last 2 raids we had, most of the challenge on them come from the HPS, DPS, TPS requirements, rather than actual tactics. Rako, Vado, Nazguls, Gothmog, Sagrog, Fingar (no challenge). Just think about it, get a full geared team who has no idea how to do the whole mordath raid, scale them to lvl 120 with level increase and new gear and all that, put them inside mordath t2c and see how they just nuke everything and outheal all damage and there's nothing challenging in it with no tactic at all. That's the problem, gear, and raw numbers of your players make more difference than any tactic.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    sure. but having higher levels on mobs only changes one of the most annoying mechanics: they get higher stats that players cant overcompensate.
    Afaik, against higherlevel targets, not only does one need higher ratings to cap things, but the achievable percentage caps are lower, too.
    I wouldnt even consider that mechanic.

    Exactly as you write, +3 levels means only higher stats with penalty on our caps. Therefore I would like to have rather multiplyer on the stats than level increase on enemies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    but yea, ideally, T2c should have all stats x2.5 plus additional mechanics.
    Actually, some recent bosses are designed in this way what I welcome. E.g. twins in Abyss. If you are doing only t2, you avoid half mechanics in comparison to t2c. Same with Fingar. Unbroken one is the most difficult boss in Trone and rightful so. All have the same thing in common: going for t2c brings in additional mechanics. And I like it this way.
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    Eglish isn't my native language, sorry for mistakes

 

 

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