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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    63
    The OP is slightly conflating two different issues: one is offensive behaviour, the other is dropping out of a PUG. The two are absolutely not similar.

    I have dropped out of a Thrang PUG a few times when it became obvious that the group, for whatever reason, wasn't getting anywhere. I've also been in Thrang PUGs where other players have dropped out. In general, and with few exceptions, this is not behaviour that should be penalised, and there could be many reasons for dropping out. Joining a PUG does not incur the same responsibility as a scheduled or kinship run, where you have a certain obligation to stay the course. The obvious course to take if you decide to drop, and frankly it shouldn't be necessary to say this, is to do so quietly and politely. If necessary, use a diplomatic lie: not "you guys suck, I'm off!", but "Sorry, I'm running out of time here and have to go". Simple.

  2. #27
    CaerArianrhod's Avatar
    CaerArianrhod is offline Rohirrim Scout
    Guardian of Erebrandir's Horseshoe's Secret
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    Jun 2011
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    976
    Quote Originally Posted by Anaxapart View Post
    [...] to do so quietly and politely. If necessary, use a diplomatic lie: "Sorry, I'm running out of time here and have to go". .
    This kind of lie is what i hate the most. In such cases, I rather prefer to say as it is: "Sorry, but like we are set up here, it just does not work." (or something similar).

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by JERH View Post
    Sorry for getting into this thread late and for being one of those semi-competent people that the experienced core complains about, but I am curious since the title talks about penalties and I have yet to see any discussed nor a way to enforce them?

    Banned for a day?
    10g?
    Tagged with a rage-quit title for a day?
    Sword cosmetic replaced with a wet noodle?

    How and what would you “penalize” players?

    Just curious.
    In Age of Conan if you leave the raid finder instance early, you get a debuff preventing you from joining the raid finder again for a certain amount of time. I think its 10 min, but its been a while.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by Anaxapart View Post
    The OP is slightly conflating two different issues: one is offensive behaviour, the other is dropping out of a PUG. The two are absolutely not similar.

    I have dropped out of a Thrang PUG a few times when it became obvious that the group, for whatever reason, wasn't getting anywhere. I've also been in Thrang PUGs where other players have dropped out. In general, and with few exceptions, this is not behaviour that should be penalised, and there could be many reasons for dropping out. Joining a PUG does not incur the same responsibility as a scheduled or kinship run, where you have a certain obligation to stay the course. The obvious course to take if you decide to drop, and frankly it shouldn't be necessary to say this, is to do so quietly and politely. If necessary, use a diplomatic lie: not "you guys suck, I'm off!", but "Sorry, I'm running out of time here and have to go". Simple.
    I think several issues were mixed up in the OP and the thread.

    1. This is not a specific issue of 'Boss from the vaults: Thrang". It certainly may appear so because Thrang is currently farmed for iLvl 345 loot and golden pocket item.

    2. General communication: I agree it's better to state the facts than to use a convenient lie. But this can also be communicated in an unoffensive way. Either the group composition is unsuitable, there is not enough experience and understanding of the mechanics or essential skills and equip are not balanced / devoleped. It's nothing against a certain person.

    3. Fractions of player types: Please keep in mind there are those who run this instance with all their 7+ alts on a daily basis and there are also those who wish to run it for a first time or just occasionally (and having not figured out every detail yet).

    I'm against penalties of any kind for people leaving a group. In such cases I simply ignore it - even if it's frustrating at first - or if I find the behavior very offensive I'll put that char on my ignore list.

    However, I'd wish there were more LFF Thrang invitations with the addition "less experienced players also welcome". Everyone has to learn some mechanics in new content a first or second time. But I could also live with stopping attempts at a certain point after group wipes, because it just won't work with the group. In this case a fair, non-offensive reason should be given, ideally stating what should be improved by the participants.

    Kind regards
    Rhunar

    EDIT: Corrected some typos

  5. #30
    I don't raid in LOTRO, so I don't know how this works, but in SWTOR, if you leave a Flashpoint, you have to wait some period of time (maybe ten minutes?) before you can join another. I assume that was to prevent players from jumping from group to group ... which I guess was a problem.

    Like I said, I don't raid in LOTRO, but I have an active forum account, which entitles me to an opinion about something I've never done and never would do ...

    Were I in a raid, and we sucked, I would have the common courtesy to wait until the wipe was complete before rage-quitting.

    Were I in a raid, and someone's gear sucked, I would let them know via /tell ... and maybe offer to craft them some better stuff (because what they're wearing would have to be worse than what I can make before I would comment).

    Were I in a raid, and I decided to leave, I would tell the group why I was leaving without any sugar-coating. I'm a full-grown adult. I treat others as if they are full-grown adults as well.

    Were I in a raid ... well, let's just say I'd have to re-examine all my life-choices, because something has jumped the tracks for certain.

  6. #31
    If you're going to join a PuG this is just going to be part of the struggle. These sort of attitudes exist in every major MMO, and have since the MMO genre has existed. Kinships/Guilds exist for a reason. They hold players accountable to a certain community mentality. The best thing about LotRO compared to other MMO's is that it has a smaller and more tight-knit community, so players who are repeatedly toxic eventually get iced out from the rest of the community. Sadly, the same thing happens to players who really suck at the game. Unfortunately, in my experience, most players suck at the game and the best thing more skilled/experienced players can do is offer constructive criticism/help/advice to aid other players in becoming better. If the bad players aren't receptive to that criticism, and continue to suck, that's on them.

    I generally try to avoid pugs for Thrang as the instance is pretty annoying without a pretty specific group composition. With that being said, I wouldn't drop a group in the middle of a fight. I'd wait until we wiped once or twice then I'd offer some advice and take my leave. With that being said, I can understand the perspective of players who don't feel like sitting around and helping a failing group with bad players. Not everyone has the patience for that.

    Regardless, if you're a bad player, it's on you to get better. If you frequently find yourself as the weak link in groups, it's probably not other player's fault. It's yours. There are countless method's to get better at the game/better understand your class. Dadi has some awesome(slightly dated but still relevant) class guides available for free online.

    What you shouldn't do is come to the forums complaining about the activities of a player you deem as toxic. If LotRO used a grouping method similar to other MMO's, rather than the classic LFF/LFG chat function, there would be a way the Dev's could regulate punishment for players exhibiting toxic behavior. However, that isn't the case, so you're not going to get anywhere with this. What you could do, since I see many people on here claiming to be "Adults", is send a PM to the person who dropped your group and ask them politely, what you could do better so as to avoid a similar result in the future. Or you could just add the toxic player to your ignore list and refuse to invite them to your groups in the future. Two simple solutions that don't require you to come and post your opinion on a forum that a myriad of other like-minded players are going to turn into an echo chamber of useless babbling about something that will never get changed.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by JERH View Post
    Sorry for getting into this thread late and for being one of those semi-competent people that the experienced core complains about, but I am curious since the title talks about penalties and I have yet to see any discussed nor a way to enforce them?

    Banned for a day?
    10g?
    Tagged with a rage-quit title for a day?
    Sword cosmetic replaced with a wet noodle?

    How and what would you “penalize” players?

    Just curious.
    Please this. If they implemented this, I would purposefully start ragequitting runs. I want my wet noodle cosmetics!

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Vermont
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    1,782
    That other thread about "solo players, why don't you raid?" should be pointed at this thread, and vice versa.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    361
    Lord have mercy on the group I join! Two years, 1-115, never been in a group. But I am running out of solo content in this game. So I just might have to inflict myself upon some unsuspecting souls at some point.

    In EverQuest, a player like that (trash talk and drop mid-fight, especially if causing a wipe) would be added to one's "never group with" list. If one were in guild, incident would be communicated to rest of guild. If said player was in a guild, leadership if that guild would be notified. If this were on Rallos (open PvP server, my early EQ years), and offense was REAL bad, guild could declare the player KoS.

    Game mechanics could not come close to the penalty the community would inflict. In a game where solo progress is next to impossible and death meant your corpse with all your gear was left where you died (they switched to "keep your gear" a few years back).... getting on community's wrong side was BAD.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,895
    Quote Originally Posted by JERH View Post
    Sorry for getting into this thread late and for being one of those semi-competent people that the experienced core complains about, but I am curious since the title talks about penalties and I have yet to see any discussed nor a way to enforce them?

    Banned for a day?
    10g?
    Tagged with a rage-quit title for a day?
    Sword cosmetic replaced with a wet noodle?

    How and what would you “penalize” players?

    Just curious.
    WoW puts a timer on how long you have to wait before joining another group, if you get booted by the group. I don't recall there being a penalty for leaving of your own accord.

    I was in a raiding guild in WoW for a while (for all I know, my character might still be) and on occasion I was included on some of the hardest content in the game. My gear was not the best, however, since I was still working on getting my gear score up at the time. So sometimes that would mean I would have to step out. The leader was courteous about it -- he said that he could tell I was excellent with mechanics, I just couldn't pull the DPS they needed. I was okay with that. He was honest but not rude about it. If he told me I sucked and was a waste of space, I probably would leave the guild. I have better things to do with my time than get beat up over a game.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 115 MNS Fayah/115 LM Siennah/115 HNT Dinenol/115 RK Dhurik
    115 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/61 BUR Dhax/115 WDN Godoric
    R9 115 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  11. #36
    It seems to me that the quality of PUG Thrang runs has improved noticeably compared to the beginning of the festival. People seem to have a better idea of what's going on and what they should be doing. Either that or there is some self-selection going on and the players that repeatedly failed just quit trying.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    East coast
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by NeoBasilisk View Post
    It seems to me that the quality of PUG Thrang runs has improved noticeably compared to the beginning of the festival. People seem to have a better idea of what's going on and what they should be doing. Either that or there is some self-selection going on and the players that repeatedly failed just quit trying.
    Perhaps the former. Taking a minute to quickly review mechanics, once everyone is inside instance, always pays off. I do it each time with my PUGs, even when everyone else is 115 and our instance is set to level 50. The benefit spreads forward: now everyone in PUG can explain Thrang fight to their next groups, and so on. (as simple as: "interrupt inductions, pull Thrang to fumaroles")

    Successful groups create/inspire more successful groups.

    Those who repeatedly failed but decided to retry will eventually find themselves in a group that explains the fight and they will learn how it works too.

 

 
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