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  1. #1

    Investigative Research Services: Trait Tree Point allocation.

    To all concerned

    IRS through its network of employees and affiliates bring you this weeks topic and its solution for consideration.

    Today's topic was brought to my attention through our field agent in Tokyo Japan, a pressing matter forwarded to our main office in the United States. I became urgently concerned when the brief appeared on my desk with a cover letter which showed a picture of a Warg. I could not tell if the Warg I viewed was recently shaven or if it was a new breed of the skinless Wargs, I heard rumor of. I also noticed a tuft of fur at its tail's end with a blue bow. Upon closer inspection I could barely make out wording in Japanese. I quickly sought out a translation and it appears to say "Marry Me". I am currently having my secretary set up a teleconference with our Tokyo field agent. In the interim I will proceed with the topic and the supplemental information in said brief.


    Future patch notes should read as follows:

    Trait Trees:
    A new Trait Tree. The PvMP Trait Tree.
    PvMP Trait Tree will now have a cost of three points for non primary Trait Tree skill point allocation.

    VIPS will have the PvMP Trait Tree free for use upon log in.

    The LotRO store will now offer a PvMP Trait Tree separate and in addition to the already existing Trait Tree line up.
    The new PvMP Trait Tree is now available at the same price as unlocking the third one already in existence.

    The PvMP Trait Tree will automatically become active upon entering the Ettenmoors.
    The absence of a PvMP Trait Tree will automatically reduce your chosen Trait Tree point allocation to your primary chosen tree.
    In the case of the F2P or Premium player entering the Ettenmoors via a Mithril coin Moors pass they will have the temporary benefit of the new PvMP Trait Tree for the 6 hour duration.


    Some history provided from our Archivist on the evolution of LotRO shows this.
    "Trait Trees are being implemented to reduce skill bloat"
    (The actual patch notes were not provided being that the Archivist is here at this moment reading aloud.)

    Promotional Highlights:

    Trait Trees were created and implemented to allow a player to more closely focus a class to suit their play style.
    Helms Deep expansion will include Trait Trees and through the usage of Trait Points allows a player to create a Hero unique to your chosen class.
    Trait Points can be acquired through leveling your character and also by achieving certain goals and benchmarks along the journey including Deed completions and Epic Battles or as commonly referred Big Battles. Trait Points can also be purchased in the LotRO store using TP or in the case of SSG LP.


    IRS Memo release:

    The ending of last week concluded with a heated discussion approaching argumentative scale. The advocates for PvE in our round table discussion began stamper and stammer about more than once. At one point, two of them threatened to go outside and fling dung on the entrance doors. I as the president and officiator of the discussion decided it was best for the moment to send them out across the street to get Slurpees to bring back for all to enjoy and have them cool off in temperament during their vacate. Once they returned with a cooler disposition we resumed the discussion. It was at that moment our PvE contributors realized this recommendation was not part of the PvE environment and only offered as a solution attempt to equalized PvMP disparity. It was at that point the sound of Slurpee straws prevailed.

    Summation of approval and disapproval percentage:

    As mentioned in the previous installment provided by our stupendous team, this installment of proposed solutions would be of a very contentious nature. It is and I admit with much fervor our team offers this proposed solution to help contained balance and open up future updates with this issue minimalized in being a future factor. Our analytic team predicts a 46% objection rate, however it is well known that players are always resistant to change that doesn't offer more outright. Of course we at IRS understand some players do not PvMP for a challenge and those will be the overwhelming rejectionist. Balance can be achieved. Are you up for the challenge?


    On a personal note:

    I will step out of the persona for a moment here. When I read about how Creeps are in near despair being one and two shotted all over the map regardless of rank or class it is disheartening to hear a SSG employee respond with one word "nice". I understand some SSG employees are limited in what can be said and or changed to create balance but honestly. Why should a Creep want to play if their is little hope for a future, where a player can't enjoy the full spectrum of choices this game has to offer including its PvMP? At no time in the last few years have the Trait Tree points been brought up for discussion concerning PvMP balance. The Trait Tree points are out of control and with a new level increase, I fear another addition to this will end all of the pvp for good. Its time this elephant was sent packing.
    Investigative Research Services PLLC
    We are an independent research corporation.
    President and CEO Mr_IRS_Agent

  2. #2
    Messing with PVE goals just discourages freeps. I hate trait points, but they're not going away. Messing with them for PVP just makes freeps pve less, it does not make them pvp more.

    You know why I intentionally misconstrued the 35% runspeed? Because I wanted to see if you were a creep. Your weekly "nerf freeps, buff creeps" posts will just blend in.
    Phrasing! Doesn't anybody do phrasing anymore?

  3. #3
    I am having a blast reading these. Well done!

    Another good idea. /signed


    -BuckJack

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Melbourne
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    This isn't the worst idea in the world, but it'd be a lot of effort for SSG to implement, and it would also restrict Freep classes into playing specific roles (not necessarily a bad thing, forcing Minstrels to be the healing class in the Ettenmoors wouldn't be the worst thing in the world). But I don't see anything like this happening, due to how much effort the developers would have to put into creating the PvMP trait trees, testing/balancing them, and then of course damage control when the Freeps inevitably moan and complain.

    I think a far easier and more likely solution is to create COMPLETE (meaning jewellery and cloaks too!) PvP gear sets (1 for each class) and FORCE Freeps to use them in the Ettenmoors (for instance by giving them a +300% incoming damage debuff if they don't use the whole PvP gear set, or just by coding that the PvP gear is the only gear that can be used - apart from Legendary Items, weapons and class items). I detailed how this could work in another thread I made.

    Cohorts of the Red Legion
    Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
    Timidi mater non flet.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    Messing with PVE goals just discourages freeps. I hate trait points, but they're not going away. Messing with them for PVP just makes freeps pve less, it does not make them pvp more.

    You know why I intentionally misconstrued the 35% runspeed? Because I wanted to see if you were a creep. Your weekly "nerf freeps, buff creeps" posts will just blend in.
    This guy chanting the same mantra for years. PvE matters for PvP some such nonsense like the two today are explicit co-dependent opposite sides of the same coin. At one time they were more closely aligned but not today. Nor will they ever be aligned as they once were. Today the game leans more and more solo-centric and continues on that path. Mainly to cater to the more casual types in time and challenge.

    This guy when offered a challenge to take off the Freep goggles and come to Creepside. Who made a half attempt to say he went through the motions to wave off the possibility he is in deed a full time Freep. Who has often used some kind of off logic to support his view of why the Free player should have many and varied advantages over their opposition. This guy who created a Creep tribe that is true. Named Wicked Tricksy False and urged his freepside kin friends to join along. Some did and they all played Wargs. Almost never engaged the Freep opposition but instead followed around Creep groups and observed. What the real challenge was for him alone to come to Creep and integrate into the Creep population and become one to experience the real truth of Creep life. It was a T1 challenge accepted and failed. The reasons were many but in the end the fall back was "I lead a pve/pvp kin". The famous wantabe Champ seen through this and eventually went to Creepside to pvp. That story said volumes.

    You hate trait points? Are you using them? I didn't read anything in the opening post that said they should go away. Did you? If anything the pve goals are being messed with by SSG. PvP goals remain largely intact despite the pve goal post changing. I'm not sure what you are saying there since it makes little sense.

    Isn't it your M.O.? To intentionally misconstrue? It seems fairly obvious others can see through that smoke with clarity. I tbh can't tell if the OP is a Freep or a Creep but I can read their words humor aside and see it for an attempt for balance. This PVMP trait tree suggestion seems worth a look see but can it gain traction idk. Would it be a precursor to Creep trait trees? That's something to ponder. Can or would SSG pull it off? Doubtful.

    This looks like case of wanting to know the messenger more than the message.



    Please don't send me forum mail with questions.
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  6. #6
    if the pvp was balanced or placed in creeps favor, freeps would not come out.
    "Hello, I am paper. Please nerf scissors. Rock is fine."

  7. #7
    While I'd love a pvp trait tree like in Rift (game), I don't see it happening, and it'll be a strain on resources... a simpler fix would be to limit Trait Points to a full tree (~53) with a little bit extra to hit stats... some of the balance issues stem from classes going deeper into secondary or tertiary trees.
    Turine Turambare - Warlord - Warg Slayer - Weaver's Enemy - Reaver's Enemy - Blackarrow's Enemy - Warleader's Enemy - Defiler Foe
    TEAM F
    ... occasionally seen on... Mynutts/Thick/Blasthardcheese/Vladtheimpaler/--------/Twiggyt/Belege/Bodybags

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    This guy chanting the same mantra for years. PvE matters for PvP some such nonsense like the two today are explicit co-dependent opposite sides of the same coin. At one time they were more closely aligned but not today.
    You're right, they're not today. And how's PVP doing? Do you think it was a magical accident things are the way they are? Glad you're noticing the mantra, it's a true one. What you need to understand, and you probably won't because it's more fun/convenient to get all trolly about some freep not liking an opinion that would nerf freeps is that:

    I agree completely that combat is too fast. But the problem that I encounter is that it appears that creeps don't seem to have a problem with how fast they kill someone, just how fast they are killed. It's an argument as old as the Mines of Moria expac.

    The problem with the 'Moors damage isn't gear or trait points. It's crits and crit magnitude. Just put a blanket debuff across the entire zone banning crits. There is the end of your damage issue. But no one wants that right? Because they like to crit other people, they just don't want it done to themselves.
    Phrasing! Doesn't anybody do phrasing anymore?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    You're right, they're not today. And how's PVP doing?

    "Hold a sec and I'll get back after the lag ends."

    That's how pvp is doing today.

    The idea of the pve-pvp connection loses truth with each update.
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  10. #10
    correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't creep crit dev mag damage a set value where freep dev crits seem to have the sky as the limit?

    when you add in freep dps buffs, freep debuffs to creeps as well as the basic way creeps are built, it makes combat almost a moot point when everyone is getting 1 or 2 shotted.

    no combat in an aspect of the game that is supposed to highlight pvp combat is pretty much a fail

    we can throw in our opinions via the forums forever but SSG has neither the will, skill, nor resources to tackle it.

    it is what it is and that all that it is.

    laff it off if your a creep and have fun, faceroll freeps in a zerg and make the best of it . balanced 1v1 is never gonna happen.
    .

    Mortem Tyrannis

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by subadar View Post
    correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't creep crit dev mag damage a set value where freep dev crits seem to have the sky as the limit?a
    It really doesn't matter. If you just ban crit damage, then it's over for both sides. And then you don't have to worry about scaling it either.
    Phrasing! Doesn't anybody do phrasing anymore?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    116
    Snowlock is determined that PVE gear and weapons shall hold sway in the Moors and he's not going to change his opinion, however WRONG it is.

    Also, there has been mentioned on another thread about limiting Trait points to 55 so you can only go one line not nearly 2, it would make a massive difference. I know it's there because it was me who brought it up.

    Freeps need to learn that PVE and PVP are 2 entirely different things, so unless SSG have a plan to allow CREEPS into PVE land, then never the twain shall meet.

    Mr I.R.S guy is doing a Fine job highlighting the disparaging discrepencies in PVMP, keep up the good work!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by SavileRow View Post
    Snowlock is determined that PVE gear and weapons shall hold sway in the Moors and he's not going to change his opinion, however WRONG it is.

    Also, there has been mentioned on another thread about limiting Trait points to 55 so you can only go one line not nearly 2, it would make a massive difference. I know it's there because it was me who brought it up.

    Freeps need to learn that PVE and PVP are 2 entirely different things, so unless SSG have a plan to allow CREEPS into PVE land, then never the twain shall meet.

    Mr I.R.S guy is doing a Fine job highlighting the disparaging discrepencies in PVMP, keep up the good work!
    I honestly thought your post was just going to be PVP needs to be deleted, again.
    Phrasing! Doesn't anybody do phrasing anymore?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaChaLoco View Post
    This isn't the worst idea in the world, but it'd be a lot of effort for SSG to implement, and it would also restrict Freep classes into playing specific roles (not necessarily a bad thing, forcing Minstrels to be the healing class in the Ettenmoors wouldn't be the worst thing in the world). But I don't see anything like this happening, due to how much effort the developers would have to put into creating the PvMP trait trees, testing/balancing them, and then of course damage control when the Freeps inevitably moan and complain.

    I think a far easier and more likely solution is to create COMPLETE (meaning jewellery and cloaks too!) PvP gear sets (1 for each class) and FORCE Freeps to use them in the Ettenmoors (for instance by giving them a +300% incoming damage debuff if they don't use the whole PvP gear set, or just by coding that the PvP gear is the only gear that can be used - apart from Legendary Items, weapons and class items). I detailed how this could work in another thread I made.
    i dont like this idea, simply based on the reason that one of the main reasons i grind for gear is to be my best in pvp...I just think they should get rid of essences, basically the same thing would happen they control all the states

  15. #15
    Hello all

    Previous stated this topic was and is contentious. The percentile analysis is on par with the data our analytic team submitted. Also in light of the additional information from our Tokyo Field Agent sent to my desk, there is little reason to suggest our data was incorrect. With this said, it is still our position at IRS this PvMP Trait Tree be implemented asap. This being one of the largest concerns from our clients for the longevity of Ettenmoors PvMP. By the Way, our clients consist of players from both factions and the larger PvE community. These clients consist of Raid Leaders, Kinship Leaders, Kinship members, Tribe Leaders, Tribe members, Soloist, and Live Stream participants. It is the perfect slice of Ettenmoors PvMP demographics. Having many discussions enhanced by our immense data base of information, we can ascertain to a very high degree how such implementations will change and enhance the PvMP experience. When a tried and true process of discovery, assessment, proposals, and solutions is without equaled measure there is no reason to search further.


    It is commonly known that any open forum whether it be a physical place where people gather or an internet page the same occurrence exist. This existence can be found to be prominently evident any time a discussion reaches the state I refer to as Wabi Sabi Madness. In the case of forum derailment and intentional misdirection is a form of disorder where symmetry usually prevails. In the real sense it is the intentional decision to break symmetry as in Architecture or Interior Design. This intent in a forum is much the same for the same outcome. Our Team at IRS are competent and can recognize these attempts on sight. It is the purpose of the forum goer to waylay and misdirect. To break continuity and cause disruption to distract from what the original topic is about and created for. For all their intents and purposes these features they bestow into a forum discussion, I can assure them they will not succeed. We at IRS are indeed persistent and non wavering. Our goal in representing our clients is solid as a perfect diamond. Absolutely flawless.

    On to discussing our opening post and the reactions. It was brought to my attention there were no water holding explanations for why a PvMP Trait Tree would not improve PvMP. Nor was there any evidence to the contrary concerning the alleviation of faction disparity. Additionally the caveat of including the LotRo store is the pivotal lynch pin and the means to fund something that won't take any more than new items for a festival or adding festivals to the Instance Finder. Another Trait Tree tab is all that is required with point limits in place. Obviously that is summarized, yet out team feels this is possible and even probable to insure any future for PvMP.

    However there were submissions brought forth from the world chat from similar discussions and I quote. "I pay a subscription and therefore should be stronger, faster, and sturdier than a Creep."
    And I quote, "Creeps are F2P and just fodder for our fun."
    and I quote, " It's awesome I am an OP Hunter one shotting Creeps right and Left. Its like a game of Wakamole and I never lose."
    and I quote, "Screw Creeps they are monsters in game and real life and deserve a thousand deaths."
    and I quote, "I'm a High Elf, master of Middle Earth nuff said."


    Ladies and Gentlemen, Freep Peoples and Creeps is this the way we want quality and balance with this kind of thinking? We at IRS have a consistent attitude that some of those quotes are inappropriate considering there are real people on the other end of the PvMP engagement. It will make a Middle Earth World of difference to remember that. Our Free People clients were appalled at some of the replies in the World Chat. They openly expressed shame and forthwith offered apologies to the Creep faction present at the last open round table meeting. I interjected at this point and exclaimed we are aware of the situation and do not hold our clients responsible for what others think or say. When our meeting had concluded the minutes were re read to all and then a huge delivery of Hobbits cookies were given out to everyone. It was then that the Creep leader representing their faction stepped forward and bowed before exiting the meeting.

    Just in case you are wondering, no the cookies weren't made from Hobbits but by Hobbits. The Hoar Hollow Mayor is one swell Hobbit.


    So to end this installment from Yours truly Mister_IRS_Agent, stay on track.



    Our next installment in this series of PvMP will be no less than another contentious topic with our assessment and solution.

    Thank You for all your valuable input.
    Until next week, fare well.

    Mr_IRS_Agent
    Last edited by Mister_IRS_Agent; Jun 27 2018 at 11:52 PM.
    Investigative Research Services PLLC
    We are an independent research corporation.
    President and CEO Mr_IRS_Agent

 

 

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