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  1. #1

    5 hours without spammers was good while it lasted

    So we just had a spammer on Gladden world chat, was a level 13 hunter. Apparently they have already found ways around the level restrictions, which tbh 5 hours took far longer than I expected for them to do so.

    So now not only are you hurting new players with the level restrictions but the whole reason you did so turned out to be a complete waste of time.

    Also now we get the added bonus of seeing them in regional and OOC channels as neither of these are level gated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Middle-earth
    Posts
    1,038

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirillin View Post
    So we just had a spammer on Gladden world chat, was a level 13 hunter. Apparently they have already found ways around the level restrictions, which tbh 5 hours took far longer than I expected for them to do so.

    So now not only are you hurting new players with the level restrictions but the whole reason you did so turned out to be a complete waste of time.

    Also now we get the added bonus of seeing them in regional and OOC channels as neither of these are level gated.
    *sigh*

    I was even anticipating more tells as a result of todays patch, so I put most of my characters on anonymous, even the low level ones I just log in to get stuff from (use them as mules to hold things when bank is full). I guess that won't help much then.

  3. #3
    There are many loremaster camps at servers so they get easy lvl, here is one example I seen 24 Loremaster at Mirobel, each of them 114-115 lvl.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Cowplain, United Kingdom
    Posts
    825
    Filter out
    World
    Trade
    OOC

    and most of the problem goes away. As yet I have not seen different problems arise due to not using those channels. An active social and international kinship menas there is still plenty of chat and folk willing to group or seeking to group. As a bonus, there's a fair bit of who wants [tradeable item] as well.
    Mithithil Ithryndi

  5. #5

    Angry GOLD SPAMMERS Fix not working as intended

    THE FIX regarding gold spammers did not work. I have received many instant messages from spammers. I inspected them.. They are level one burgs, all standing in Archet.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    52
    I filter out world, trade, LFF and have very little trouble from gold-sellers. Maybe every 2 days or so I'll get a Tell from a gold-seller but I just report them, which is super easy. It sucks that gold-sellers exist but it's not like they're out of control and spoiling the whole game with SO many Tells.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,085
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirillin View Post
    So we just had a spammer on Gladden world chat, was a level 13 hunter. Apparently they have already found ways around the level restrictions, which tbh 5 hours took far longer than I expected for them to do so.
    According to the description in the update notes, F2P need to be L20 to post and premium need to be L10.

    This results in 3 options:
    a) the spammers have a way to make their accounts premium without requiring too much money (or they had it in the past and probably have other accounts waiting)
    b) they have access to regular accounts that are premium, e.g. either through phishing, malware or one of the rumored breaches
    c) the blockade is not working

    Besides that any blockade below 30, possible 40 is useless. AFK crafting can bring a char that far and this does not even need automation. Adding a few levels with the help of a farm train is also quite simple.

    There is no way to block the spammers without spending effort.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,085
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithrandir1903 View Post
    There are many loremaster camps at servers so they get easy lvl, here is one example I seen 24 Loremaster at Mirobel, each of them 114-115 lvl.
    It is funny that they are not even anonymous.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,579
    Logged in early this morning to find one of the regular gold spammers spam.

    Figured it was going to have to be a level 10 now, but it's the usual default level 5 burglar with default gear again.

    So the chat limit has been cunningly breached by subbing? He went offline at 02:57 EST 10 mins after I came on.

    I'm not sure I like the implication that only offering might stat tomes suggests that somehow might users are the most likely customer.

    Mac
    See my Lotro gaming videos:
    Macdui on Youtube.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,085
    Quote Originally Posted by Macdui View Post
    So the chat limit has been cunningly breached by subbing? He went offline at 02:57 EST 10 mins after I came on.
    I'll add another option to top it up to 4.

    1. the limitation doesn't work
    2. they used hacked accounts (a limited resource)
    3. they make enough profit that buying a sub for a spam char is no problem
    4. they have a way to create subs without real money, e.g. some credit card fraud

    One could even discuss in what sense (3+4) is a good idea using *many* games. One could assume that people with money from illegal activities could have an interest to convert this money to an untraced virtual currency and back to real money again. In this case even small losses could be tolerable, after all money laundry has a cost everywhere.
    The only question is the amount of work and the transaction volume.

    Quote Originally Posted by Macdui View Post
    I'm not sure I like the implication that only offering might stat tomes suggests that somehow might users are the most likely customer.
    I guess keeping this unhelpful prejudice to yourself woud be a good idea.

    All in all we can conclude that the idea to block characters by level was not a good idea and that postings about what would happen have become true. A limitation for real users and a tiny nuisance for the spammers.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,731
    We have some additional steps we will be taking in the near future to help curb in-game spam. Getting into detail wouldn't be a good idea at this point, but we'll have more info soon.
    Community Manager, Lord of the Rings Online
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    coolcool

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    My Coop
    Posts
    654

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We have some additional steps we will be taking in the near future to help curb in-game spam. Getting into detail wouldn't be a good idea at this point, but we'll have more info soon.
    Outstanding!
    "Never argue with a fool, it's difficult to tell the difference"

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We have some additional steps we will be taking in the near future to help curb in-game spam. Getting into detail wouldn't be a good idea at this point, but we'll have more info soon.
    Does it involve real-life implementation of the /fishslap emote? I'd show up to see that!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We have some additional steps we will be taking in the near future to help curb in-game spam. Getting into detail wouldn't be a good idea at this point, but we'll have more info soon.
    can I have ticking box in Social Options preventing low level chars from sending me direct messages, pls?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We have some additional steps we will be taking in the near future to help curb in-game spam. Getting into detail wouldn't be a good idea at this point, but we'll have more info soon.
    I pretty much stopped playing at this point.... many of my characters aren't in a kinship anymore these days..... and every time I turn to world chat its a spam fest. Not just one, but multiple ones just filling the screen over and over and over.... I love the game, I love making new toons and playing old zones and immersing myself into the story, but this spam is just ridiculous. I keep adding more people to ignore, but 10 minutes later there are 7 new ones.

    As long as people can just keep signing up for a new account using a new random email address (something that is probably entirely scripted at this point) from a new VPN or proxied IP.... it won't stop. I'm willing to bet that the whole process, from creating the account to creating the character to getting to world chat to start to spam is 100% botted, scripted and automated. They just come in in the morning and say..... spawn 5 new spammers per hour, script through the intro zone from point to point because it is all static content..... stay online for the required amount of time, and start spamming. When I launched a new hobbit not too long ago I saw 6 loremasters on auto follow going through the intro. It looked automated. Willing to bet it was.... or it was 1 person steering the 6, delivering 6 ready toons per 30 minutes in the process, and if it was a person, I doubt he spoke a word of English, and is just clicking on buttons based on Chinese instructions, getting paid an appallingly low wage. And they are likely at an age they should be in school.

    There isn't a system that can't be botted, scripted, and/or exploited by child labor - because that is what is going on.

    There are a few exceptions to this rule:

    1) attach it to a financial system that can actually be charged say.... $1 or EUR1 or GBP1, or whatever for world chat access. If that account spams, the payment method is banned to. They can generate unlimited emails, accounts and IP addresses, but they can't generate unlimited credit cards that can ACTUALLY be charged! You might even be able to attach it to an automatic REFUND if people finish e.g Mines of Moria or Mirkwood or some other 50+ expansion...., as by that time they will have bought the expansion through many points and have proven to be not a bot..... So you pay $1 now, get world chat access, and get $1 back later. I'm willing to bet this alone stops 99% of spammers. It won't completely get rid of it, as they will continue to use hacked VIP/Premium accounts, but it will get rid of most of it. Of course if you purchase anything in the store for real money or sub to VIP, you also automatically get world chat, regardless of level.

    2) Implement a "recaptcha" like system for sending to World Chat. If you are free to play, have absolutely NO money, are too young to get a credit card, or live in a country where such things are simply not possible..... then every line you want to send to World Chat will have a "recaptcha" type puzzle that is highly randomized. Same rule applies: If you finish Moria, you get the recaptcha system removed. And if you HATE Moria, you can get it removed with every next expansion, e.g. Mirkwood, Isengard, etc.... Unless you want to engage in a big fat political discussion on World Chat, a recaptcha type system will allow players to ask questions and communicate, but it will prevent automated spamming.

    Something more drastic has to be done.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    MA, USA
    Posts
    5,766
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    I pretty much stopped playing at this point.... many of my characters aren't in a kinship anymore these days..... and every time I turn to world chat its a spam fest. Not just one, but multiple ones just filling the screen over and over and over.... I love the game, I love making new toons and playing old zones and immersing myself into the story, but this spam is just ridiculous. I keep adding more people to ignore, but 10 minutes later there are 7 new ones.


    As long as people can just keep signing up for a new account using a new random email address (something that is probably entirely scripted at this point) from a new VPN or proxied IP.... it won't stop. I'm willing to bet that the whole process, from creating the account to creating the character to getting to world chat to start to spam is 100% botted, scripted and automated. They just come in in the morning and say..... spawn 5 new spammers per hour, script through the intro zone from point to point because it is all static content..... stay online for the required amount of time, and start spamming. When I launched a new hobbit not too long ago I saw 6 loremasters on auto follow going through the intro. It looked automated. Willing to bet it was.... or it was 1 person steering the 6, delivering 6 ready toons per 30 minutes in the process, and if it was a person, I doubt he spoke a word of English, and is just clicking on buttons based on Chinese instructions, getting paid an appallingly low wage. And they are likely at an age they should be in school.
    I've seen this too, although my research leads me to believe any instructions are in Russian or other Slavic language.

    There isn't a system that can't be botted, scripted, and/or exploited by child labor - because that is what is going on.

    There are a few exceptions to this rule:

    1) attach it to a financial system that can actually be charged say.... $1 or EUR1 or GBP1, or whatever for world chat access. If that account spams, the payment method is banned to. They can generate unlimited emails, accounts and IP addresses, but they can't generate unlimited credit cards that can ACTUALLY be charged!
    Anyone in the US can generate unlimited one-shot cards from one real card. I can go to my CC company web site and get a single use CC number in less than a minute, then use it to make a one time purchase. The number cannot be re-used. Probably also true in Canada. I don't know if this is available anywhere else.



    You might even be able to attach it to an automatic REFUND if people finish e.g Mines of Moria or Mirkwood or some other 50+ expansion...., as by that time they will have bought the expansion through many points and have proven to be not a bot..... So you pay $1 now, get world chat access, and get $1 back later. I'm willing to bet this alone stops 99% of spammers. It won't completely get rid of it, as they will continue to use hacked VIP/Premium accounts, but it will get rid of most of it. Of course if you purchase anything in the store for real money or sub to VIP, you also automatically get world chat, regardless of level.

    2) Implement a "recaptcha" like system for sending to World Chat. If you are free to play, have absolutely NO money, are too young to get a credit card, or live in a country where such things are simply not possible..... then every line you want to send to World Chat will have a "recaptcha" type puzzle that is highly randomized. Same rule applies: If you finish Moria, you get the recaptcha system removed. And if you HATE Moria, you can get it removed with every next expansion, e.g. Mirkwood, Isengard, etc.... Unless you want to engage in a big fat political discussion on World Chat, a recaptcha type system will allow players to ask questions and communicate, but it will prevent automated spamming.

    Something more drastic has to be done.
    There's nothing that will put a complete stop to this unless the fix can make it unprofitable. (The original gold spammers got driven out by making gold easy to get through normal play.)

    SSG could eliminate a lot of the problem by removing the ability to mail store items with MC but I'm guessing that would be a hard kick in their revenuts. The best they can do is to keep adding more friction to spamming to make it more time consuming while improving cheat detection an punishing those who support the spammers. Not an easy process.

    They've got my sympathy, and I've got /world, /trade, and /lff on a separate tab so as to easily avoid spam.
    The Lag is so bad I saw Sara Oakheart outrun someone - kickman77

    Cener, Ingo, Rilibald, Hesred, Halras, Belegthelion, Ingoror, Gloringo
    Arkenstone (ex-Elendilmir) - The Osgiliath Guard - http://www.theoldergamers.com

 

 

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