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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
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    Friends list should work per account instead of per character

    EDIT: The idea has evolved and is better described bellow
    EDIT1: Feedback was received that some people would like to remain anonymous.
    EDIT2: More feedback about staying anonymous plus good implementation ideas from @Nosdradir

    • Feature: Friends list working per account instead of per character
    • This feature is opt-in, per character
    • For security reasons, this should never disclose or refer to people by using their account name.
    • To opt-in, the person should log in his/her character, access some in-game interface and type his "Group Name" (or Nickname) (1 nickname per character)
    • To opt-out, reverse the process: log character, remove nickname
    • Your different characters can have different nicknames, this way you can be part of 2 different social groups / kins without them ever knowing about it
    • When you choose a nickname for a character it has to be new in that server, and after you choose one, it becomes bound to you.
    • When you open the friends list, the game will additionally retrieve all characters who have the same nicknames as the characters you directly added as friends.


    EDIT3: Also, this has been suggested before in the following thread: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ends-list-Idea
    Last edited by Brain9H; Jun 15 2018 at 08:34 AM.

  2. #2
    /agreed
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  3. #3
    Join Date
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    This was suggested many years back and, if I remember correctly, one of the arguments against it was that it would assist trolls who want to stalk someone from character to character. If adding someone to your friends list required that person at accept, it might be different, but anyone can add you without you knowing.

  4. #4
    I wasn't there for the debate on this issue, but as I understood things it was impossible to implement this because of some internal engine/client limitation.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
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    73
    I don't see trolling as a valid reason to not do this, the benefit would be huge for everybody and the game already has multiple ways to handle harassment like anonymous mode, blocking a person and reporting.

    Also, other titles in the genre have this.

    I'm sure any technical difficulties can be overcome easily, at least for same-server characters.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    USA
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    /signed even I posted about this before https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ends-list-Idea
    Pontin Level 115 Hobbit Burglar Kinship Second Breakfast Crickhollow Server. Staff member of the Lord of the Rings Discord Server, and Owner of Middle-Earth Lore discord.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    This was suggested many years back and, if I remember correctly, one of the arguments against it was that it would assist trolls who want to stalk someone from character to character. If adding someone to your friends list required that person at accept, it might be different, but anyone can add you without you knowing.
    This. I had this happen to me on a character one time. It got so bad, I actually deleted a fairly high lvl character. Can't imagine if they would've had access to all my toon's names and known when I was on.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    2,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain9H View Post
    Such that when you add a character to your list the account is stored instead, making it possible to know when your friend is online regardless on which character / alt he is playing.
    No thanks. Bad idea. Very bad idea.
    Sometimes I play an alt just so I can be anonymous, in which case I do not want other people that only know me from some other character to know when I am online.
    If I wanted them to be able to know that, I'd tell them who my alt is so they can add it to their friends list.

    And then there are the trolls and stalkers who could abuse this in myriad ways.

    No, a bad idea overall, and one with very few positives to it - unless you are a stalker.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    2,316
    A compromis could be the opportunity to sort your friends. that you can organize.
    Beispiel 1, beispiel 2, Beispiel 3 are characters of xxx. example 1, example 2 are chars of yyy.

  10. #10
    I will have to disagree as well. If you want another person to know about your alts, tell them. If someone doesn't want to share one or some of his alts, most of the time it's deliberate and they have a very good reason and every right to maintain their privacy. Leaking this information is not a good idea to say the least.

    What do you mean when you say "the benefit would be huge for everybody"?
    Last edited by HaVai; Jun 09 2018 at 09:12 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaVai View Post
    I will have to disagree as well. If you want another person to know about your alts, tell them. If someone doesn't want to share one or some of his alts, most of the time it's deliberate and they have a very good reason and every right to maintain their privacy. Leaking this information is not a good idea to say the least.

    What do you mean when you say "the benefit would be huge for everybody"?
    true that some like to have fun and be open but sometimes want to have an alt to get away and hide for a bit. I myself had suggested before this be added but only to have alts that you know, example: someone have 10 alts and you adds 7 of them that count as one account, but you don't know the other 3 alts cause you didn't add them, so they won't count. I think It should be made this way so some can maintain their privacy, while at same time show other alts to a friend.
    Pontin Level 115 Hobbit Burglar Kinship Second Breakfast Crickhollow Server. Staff member of the Lord of the Rings Discord Server, and Owner of Middle-Earth Lore discord.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pontin_Finnberry View Post
    true that some like to have fun and be open but sometimes want to have an alt to get away and hide for a bit. I myself had suggested before this be added but only to have alts that you know, example: someone have 10 alts and you adds 7 of them that count as one account, but you don't know the other 3 alts cause you didn't add them, so they won't count. I think It should be made this way so some can maintain their privacy, while at same time show other alts to a friend.
    I'm not sure how that is different from now. You can already add someone's alts to your list manually.
    I may be missing an aspect of your suggestion here.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,385
    No. It would ruin my RP.
    And that is besides of personal security concerns.
    I have a couple of toons that aren't even guilded because sometimes I just want to be left alone.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    I'm not sure how that is different from now. You can already add someone's alts to your list manually.
    I may be missing an aspect of your suggestion here.
    Exactly. And you can also put a note next to them which tells you whose alt this is. Also, you can sort the Friend list based on these notes, so you don't lose track.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    I'm not sure how that is different from now. You can already add someone's alts to your list manually.
    I may be missing an aspect of your suggestion here.
    I guess i didn't explain it well, i messed up, what i mean is, its per account, all your characters that have been added count as one character, for example Say X logs off then name changes to y as that alt logs on, so it counts as one character instead of filling your friends list with too many alts, it would count as one, the name changes depending on which Alt logged on. so your adding the account with what alts you added. hope this makes sense.
    Pontin Level 115 Hobbit Burglar Kinship Second Breakfast Crickhollow Server. Staff member of the Lord of the Rings Discord Server, and Owner of Middle-Earth Lore discord.
    Alts: Legoan Elf Hunter, Belladonea Hobbit Minstrel, Unnari Dwarf Guardian, Jorunn Man Captain, Sallyberry Hobbit Warden. Laurelin Server, Edwell Man Hunter.


    Here's some of my Screenshots Throughout Middle Earth. Also can follow me on Twitter for Adventures in Middle Earth and more!

  16. #16
    I like to look my friends up by the kin name, but that feature doesn't work anymore since the update. This way I can see if any of their alts are on w/o having to add all alt names to my friends list.

    Now when you type a search by kin, it only shows the kin members that are in the area you are in, pretty useless, unless you want to run around all of ME to keep typing in kin names. I HOPE this gets fixed soon.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    75
    Quote Originally Posted by ertr View Post
    No thanks. Bad idea. Very bad idea.
    Sometimes I play an alt just so I can be anonymous,
    I also vote against the idea, for the reasons you state.

    There are friends I love dearly, but I reserve one character to be completely anonymous with peace and quiet. It's hard to roleplay and immerse myself in the world/character when I'm getting "ding, ding, ding, ding" from friends sending Tells.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontin_Finnberry View Post
    ...per account, all your characters that have been added count as one character...
    I am in favor of listing alts together under one account, but under the current system of friending individual characters, not whole player accounts.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Seattle, WA
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    Yep, unsigned. Quite a few times, I've started a new character to be totally anonymous. It should be my choice whether or not I want to associate a new character with my old ones. If you need to know when someone's online, ask them for their alts' names.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    73
    If an anonymous mode is required for this feature to be implemented, that's perfectly fine. I'll edit the OP.
    Last edited by Brain9H; Jun 13 2018 at 04:16 PM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Lightbulb

    I have to disagree with this suggestion as well.

    I even have friends from other guilds. Some even leaders of other guilds. However they have characters they log on that are not in their own guild as they just needs days when they are not harassed or bothered all the time with guild business and simply wants to enjoy, relax and play. They have let me add their characters as they know I'm chill. However they don't want their whole guild to know they are online with another character. They simply need the break and rest once in a while. That would not be possible if this was added. Also the stalker thing that some have mentioned. Not to mention how easy it would be for gold spammers to target You no matter what character You are on.
    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." /Edward Snowden
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain9H View Post
    Such that when you add a character to your list the account is stored instead, making it possible to know when your friend is online regardless on which character / alt he is playing.

    EDIT: Feedback was received that some people would like to remain anonymous, which is a fair point, so what is needed is the following:

    • Friends list working per account instead of per character
    • At character creation, a checkbox to indicate that the character being created should be excluded from "the account social network"
    • The same checkbox should appear in-game at character view screen, so the player can at anytime opt-in/out of the feature


    Also, this has been suggested before in the following thread: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ends-list-Idea
    Absolutely not under any circumstances. And no, I don’t want to have to bother with some kind of exclusion check list that I might forget to check.

    I’ve been harassed to the point to where I had to change games, not just a server, I don’t want the slightest chance of this happening again.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    Absolutely not under any circumstances. And no, I don’t want to have to bother with some kind of exclusion check list that I might forget to check.

    I’ve been harassed to the point to where I had to change games, not just a server, I don’t want the slightest chance of this happening again.
    Hear, hear!


    There's also some major design issues with account wide friends. If your friend creates a new character and logs in, all you see is a message that your friend Hojomojo just logged in. You've never heard of them. The mechanism should NOT send your friend's account name to identify who it is because that's their login. That could be half way to an account hack.


    Alternative - Friend Group Name

    This would be opt-in only. If you do nothing with this new feature then friends list will continue to work exactly as it does now. Nothing changes unless you do something to make it change.

    We'd get a new dialog where you can create a unique Friend Group Name and assign zero or more of your characters to it. You can then tell someone else the name and they can add the group name as a friend and be notified when ANY member of that Friend Group logs in. The login message would state both character name and friend group name so you can identify who owns a new character name. You can add and subtract characters from your group as you see fit.

    This would NOT be account wide, so if you play on multiple servers you'd have to create a friend group on each one. If you remove all characters from your group then it's just empty and serves no function. You can't display a list of characters in someone else's friend group.

    I think this solves the problem of not being to easily add all of or a subset of a player's characters as friends while letting the player retain full control over which characters are visible. Since the player must actively initiate use of this feature it will not be forced on anyone by the game.

    Finally, it does not create a new exposure for the account name.

    Whaddayathink?
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  23. #23
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    Jan 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    Absolutely not under any circumstances (...)

    I’ve been harassed to the point to where I had to change games, not just a server, I don’t want the slightest chance of this happening again.
    I'm sorry to hear that, it must have been hard. Despite your personal story, I still don't think a few stalkers should stop all others from enjoying the game in a better way. Should we cancel World chat because a few spam it?

    And since you told a story, here's one: I've been playing for 4 months. I have no friends who play the game. My Kin has hundreds of people, each having lots of characters. I try to do group content as much as possible, usually daily, multiple times a day, and make friends in every opportunity, adding then all to my friends list with a nice note to remind me.

    Even still, it is a VERY LONELY game experience because almost all the time the known friends are in their alts and I always have no ways of finding out. Also, at least twice now I've helped new players arriving at LOTRO and playing at lower levels (1-20), only to weeks later remeet the same person under entirely new characters - both he/she and I playing different toons and we didn't know at first we have met before, all because the friends list can't track alts.

    The HUMAN <-> HUMAN experience / interaction must be continued over a course of time for a friendship to be made.

    I understand your desire for remain anonymous and I see no problem in making it the default behaviour.

  24. #24
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    Jan 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosdracir View Post
    Hear, hear!


    There's also some major design issues with account wide friends. If your friend creates a new character and logs in, all you see is a message that your friend Hojomojo just logged in. You've never heard of them. The mechanism should NOT send your friend's account name to identify who it is because that's their login. That could be half way to an account hack.


    Alternative - Friend Group Name

    This would be opt-in only. If you do nothing with this new feature then friends list will continue to work exactly as it does now. Nothing changes unless you do something to make it change.

    We'd get a new dialog where you can create a unique Friend Group Name and assign zero or more of your characters to it. You can then tell someone else the name and they can add the group name as a friend and be notified when ANY member of that Friend Group logs in. The login message would state both character name and friend group name so you can identify who owns a new character name. You can add and subtract characters from your group as you see fit.

    This would NOT be account wide, so if you play on multiple servers you'd have to create a friend group on each one. If you remove all characters from your group then it's just empty and serves no function. You can't display a list of characters in someone else's friend group.

    I think this solves the problem of not being to easily add all of or a subset of a player's characters as friends while letting the player retain full control over which characters are visible. Since the player must actively initiate use of this feature it will not be forced on anyone by the game.

    Finally, it does not create a new exposure for the account name.

    Whaddayathink?
    Very good ideas, I'll add to the OP., thanks very much.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    8,354
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain9H View Post
    I'm sorry to hear that, it must have been hard. Despite your personal story, I still don't think a few stalkers should stop all others from enjoying the game in a better way. Should we cancel World chat because a few spam it?

    And since you told a story, here's one: I've been playing for 4 months. I have no friends who play the game. My Kin has hundreds of people, each having lots of characters. I try to do group content as much as possible, usually daily, multiple times a day, and make friends in every opportunity, adding then all to my friends list with a nice note to remind me.

    Even still, it is a VERY LONELY game experience because almost all the time the known friends are in their alts and I always have no ways of finding out. Also, at least twice now I've helped new players arriving at LOTRO and playing at lower levels (1-20), only to weeks later remeet the same person under entirely new characters - both he/she and I playing different toons and we didn't know at first we have met before, all because the friends list can't track alts.

    The HUMAN <-> HUMAN experience / interaction must be continued over a course of time for a friendship to be made.

    I understand your desire for remain anonymous and I see no problem in making it the default behaviour.
    And for such things is always needed 2 sides. Stuff like that never happens on its own. Same people want account wide ignore but can't handle account wide friend list.

 

 
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