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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    And for such things is always needed 2 sides. Stuff like that never happens on its own. Same people want account wide ignore but can't handle account wide friend list.
    Luckly we can do both in this case, no problem.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain9H View Post
    I'm sorry to hear that, it must have been hard. Despite your personal story, I still don't think a few stalkers should stop all others from enjoying the game in a better way. Should we cancel World chat because a few spam it?

    And since you told a story, here's one: I've been playing for 4 months. I have no friends who play the game. My Kin has hundreds of people, each having lots of characters. I try to do group content as much as possible, usually daily, multiple times a day, and make friends in every opportunity, adding then all to my friends list with a nice note to remind me.

    Even still, it is a VERY LONELY game experience because almost all the time the known friends are in their alts and I always have no ways of finding out. Also, at least twice now I've helped new players arriving at LOTRO and playing at lower levels (1-20), only to weeks later remeet the same person under entirely new characters - both he/she and I playing different toons and we didn't know at first we have met before, all because the friends list can't track alts.

    The HUMAN <-> HUMAN experience / interaction must be continued over a course of time for a friendship to be made.

    I understand your desire for remain anonymous and I see no problem in making it the default behaviour.
    Communication. If you are having fun playing with people in your kin, if it has undreds of people, if you have played with them enough to have them on your friends list, TALK to them. Bring this up, ask about alts.

    If they like playing with you and want you to know their alts, job done! You can add those to your list and know when they are on an alt as well. If they don't give you the names of their alts, though, maybe that result says something about the topic of this thread, too.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    If adding someone to your friends list required that person at accept, it might be different, but anyone can add you without you knowing.
    I've been thinking about his, it's what social networks like facebook / instagram do. I'm a strongly believer of the KISS methodology for software development as a good way to make something actually get done, so I'd stay away from a full social network implementation if possible.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    Communication. If you are having fun playing with people in your kin, if it has undreds of people, if you have played with them enough to have them on your friends list, TALK to them. Bring this up, ask about alts.

    If they like playing with you and want you to know their alts, job done! You can add those to your list and know when they are on an alt as well. If they don't give you the names of their alts, though, maybe that result says something about the topic of this thread, too.
    Good tips, thank you. My Kin requires all alts to be registered in public website and to contain a note with the name of the main. So noone really is worried about stalkers. And I've asked people for their alts name before, and noone ever refused. The thing is that's all quite primitive compared to WoW for example, where you can just add the battle.net name.

    The issue here is that having this features built in the game would greatly improve the social aspect.

    It's quite clear that technology helps social interaction a lot, those who are 40 years old or more saw how all the communication tools like MSN, ICQ, Facebook, Whatsapp, etc. greatly improved our ability to get in touch with friends and family. That's why I see this feature as more that a simple quality of life thing, I see it as a major way of boost the social aspect of the game.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain9H View Post
    I'm sorry to hear that, it must have been hard. Despite your personal story, I still don't think a few stalkers should stop all others from enjoying the game in a better way. Should we cancel World chat because a few spam it?

    And since you told a story, here's one: I've been playing for 4 months. I have no friends who play the game. My Kin has hundreds of people, each having lots of characters. I try to do group content as much as possible, usually daily, multiple times a day, and make friends in every opportunity, adding then all to my friends list with a nice note to remind me.

    Even still, it is a VERY LONELY game experience because almost all the time the known friends are in their alts and I always have no ways of finding out. Also, at least twice now I've helped new players arriving at LOTRO and playing at lower levels (1-20), only to weeks later remeet the same person under entirely new characters - both he/she and I playing different toons and we didn't know at first we have met before, all because the friends list can't track alts.

    The HUMAN <-> HUMAN experience / interaction must be continued over a course of time for a friendship to be made.

    I understand your desire for remain anonymous and I see no problem in making it the default behaviour.
    Ok, first of all this line about World chat was unnecessary. It sounds like you were mocking a person's actual problem, something which at the very least won't help you make any friends...

    Now, from what I understood from this post, your problem is that you have been playing for a while and you would want to make some good friendships, but your kinnies don't seem to want to share so much with you. If that is the case, then I'm afraid the problem lies elsewhere and not in how the friend's list works.

    In fact, if this suggestion of yours was to be implemented, it would make things worse for you. Think about it: You find one of your kinnies online with an alt they didn't tell you about. You send a tell. He asks you how do you know of this alt. You explain to him about the new friend list and how it works. He realizes that his privacy is now gone and he will either chat too politely with you or ask you for some space cause logging this character meant that he wants to play alone for a while (in extreme cases, you would be called a stalker and kicked out of the kin). In either case your friendship would take a hit and the result would be the opposite of what you want.

    As I said, the solution lies elsewhere. First of all, you have to realize that this is an online game, not a social media app. While the social aspect exists and it is very possible to form some friendships via the game, you have to keep in mind that this is not always the case and most of the time it's not a deep connection like your RL friendships, more like a casual thing, something to pass the time with. All I'm trying to say is don't get your hopes up (for your own sake), cause forming strong relationships with people from an online game is a rarity and not always leading to your desired result.

    Now, with that being said, if you're still interested in going after the social aspect of the game, be more open in your thoughts. Communication is the key in every kind of relationship, whether it is your friends, your gf, your parents, your colleagues, etc. Have you actually tried telling your kinnies what you just said here? Have you tried confronting the new players that you believe have wronged you when you meet them with another character? Have you tried explaining yourself in an honest way? You might be surprised of where the honest approach might lead you. What you are suggesting though is basically forcing people to 'socialize' with you cause they won't be allowed privacy and some alone time, which I dare say is the dishonest approach. So think about what approach you want to take and which one would lead you to make true friends.

    I hope this post helps you in some way

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain9H View Post
    I'm sorry to hear that, it must have been hard. Despite your personal story, I still don't think a few stalkers should stop all others from enjoying the game in a better way. Should we cancel World chat because a few spam it?

    Wow dude. Just wow. It's a good thing the people actually making these decisions don't feel that way. If you went through what I did, you would be singing a different tune.
    Last edited by Nymphonic; Jun 15 2018 at 12:26 PM.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  7. #32
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    If people want you to know their alts, they will. I have enough toons that I could join three or four different Kins and each would think I let them Kin all my alts.
    In EQ1, for instance, one toon had the reputation as being the worst puller in the game. By extension that would make the player the worst player in the game. However I also had a Monk, whose sole job is to single pull chain-agro mobs. My monk had a reputation as being one of the best pullers in the game. So how can the two be squared if people knew that the Paladin and Monk was the same person? Either everyone would know that the best Paladin Tank in the game was purposely gimping on at least one skill or they would never have given my Monk a chance. Then come the Raids, of which I would never have been able to choose who I wanted to join as the Raid Leader would have always chosen for me. Then comes the personality of the RP. No one would have guessed that the Pallie and Monk were the same person. The pallie was flirty and joked around a lot while the Monk was all business and shot down all flirts.

    My Pallie was so well known, if people knew my alts and I logged into one It wouldn't be five minutes before someone was begging me to anchor their group (seriously).

    Naw, I let people know what toons I want them to know. I do not need or want a game that takes that away from me, especially the RP that is so tight people think that I really am that way irl.

  8. #33
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    So many complaints, if the thing is stritcly opt-in, what's the matter?

    If seems a lot of people here are more interested in fighting in the forums than coming up with an idea that can make everyone happy.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain9H View Post
    So many complaints, if the thing is stritcly opt-in, what's the matter?
    The complaints are because it is an idea with a great many problems, and which will bring very limited benefits.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain9H View Post
    So many complaints, if the thing is stritcly opt-in, what's the matter?

    If seems a lot of people here are more interested in fighting in the forums than coming up with an idea that can make everyone happy.
    I don't know if you have noticed, but LOTRO on the technical side is not always that stable. Heck, even the forums seem slow and buggy most of the time.
    I love the game and think the devs did a great job on Middle-earth and the story, but with all the work that is left to do, would I want them to spend time on a friends list system of opt-in opt-out account alts complex enough to make everyone happy? No.

    If it happens I'll be happy for you and others who want it, but I do not personally think it is worth the hours. And, if any new systems are needed for it, may not even be possible anyway.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ertr View Post
    The complaints are because it is an idea with a great many problems, and which will bring very limited benefits.
    And the problems are not small or trivial.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ertr View Post
    The complaints are because it is an idea with a great many problems, and which will bring very limited benefits.
    Which problem has not been addressed yet?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    I don't know if you have noticed, but LOTRO on the technical side is not always that stable. Heck, even the forums seem slow and buggy most of the time.
    I love the game and think the devs did a great job on Middle-earth and the story, but with all the work that is left to do, would I want them to spend time on a friends list system of opt-in opt-out account alts complex enough to make everyone happy? No.

    If it happens I'll be happy for you and others who want it, but I do not personally think it is worth the hours. And, if any new systems are needed for it, may not even be possible anyway.
    That's a fair point, but the technical skills required to implement it aren't complex. Broadly speaking, it is the addition of one extra field to an already existing table in a database, implementing the CRUD for it and the necessary interface adjustments.

    Also, I'm sure they have an internal bug/task tracking system with thousands of things to do, categorized by subsystem. So adding one more won't change anything in the short run, but at least the feature will be there and properly formatted for implementation if someone in the design team ever thinks about it.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain9H View Post
    That's a fair point, but the technical skills required to implement it aren't complex.
    This is probably the number one misconception of how MMOs work.

    Even I know that everything is complex in an MMO.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    Even I know that everything is complex in an MMO.
    There are three distinct concepts: the human skills required to do a code, and the complexity of the code itself and the process to integrate new code into the existing code/infrastructure. This suggestion requires basic technical skills, and is simple by itself. The complexity to integrate noone but SSG knows.

  16. #41
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    /unsupported.

    The option to give other players the identity of my alts is already in game. It is also an opt-in solution. We can just give them the names.
    Of course there are cases when I forget to give a friend an alt's name, but these are rare. In most cases this is on purpose.
    For me the comfort increase would be absolutely minor and IMO unneeded.

    What would be a good idea is to have something like expandable groups in our friendlist (+ buttons), so we could group the known alts of one player and get the group highlighted as soon as one of the chars is online.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    This is probably the number one misconception of how MMOs work.
    Even I know that everything is complex in an MMO.
    Well, what I know is that this one is just one of the last straw power arguments that is worth nothing. Name *ANY* suggestion that cannot be answered with the same argument. Even adding a new piece of cosmetics could potentially bust a 16 bit identifier limit and cause a complete database redesign. A universal argument that is true everywhere and nowhere.
    Last edited by thinx; Jun 20 2018 at 07:54 AM.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain9H View Post
    If seems a lot of people here are more interested in fighting in the forums than coming up with an idea that can make everyone happy.
    PvP is a major part of the forums. Usually it is good to bring a few arguments and leave the thread once it is about the usual other discussions (I am guud and you are not, this is too expensive, I would leave the game, this is too hard to implement, this could be exploited in a way we cannot imagine today, only a minority is interested, we have always done it that way, there is for sure a good reason why this wasn't implemented, therefore it is a bad idea, this would make everything facerolling easy and instant gratification, ......)

  18. #43
    No. sometimes i want to get on annon. to make it work for everyone is to programramaticaly difficult. make more bugs than its worth. so no.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain9H View Post
    That's a fair point, but the technical skills required to implement it aren't complex. Broadly speaking, it is the addition of one extra field to an already existing table in a database, implementing the CRUD for it and the necessary interface adjustments.

    Also, I'm sure they have an internal bug/task tracking system with thousands of things to do, categorized by subsystem. So adding one more won't change anything in the short run, but at least the feature will be there and properly formatted for implementation if someone in the design team ever thinks about it.
    Especially when Warner sacked the head devs way back when.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain9H View Post
    So many complaints, if the thing is stritcly opt-in, what's the matter?

    .

    Same reason why I don’t want marriage in game even if it is optional. I do not want to have to go through the trouble to explain why I don’t want the option to someone that wants me to hit “accept “.

    And it’s not complaints that people are giving, it’s reasons why people do not want the feature.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

 

 
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