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  1. #1

    Update 22.2 Play Experience

    Well, we spent all night, first solo, then full raid on raid test-driving the new 22.2 update. Here are some initial observations from a Creep vantage:

    Hunters: red line certainly more potent, especially from ambush. However, the balance of the dps seemed much more manageable than before the update when blue-line folks could shoot down much of a group. Prior to the update, we had to kill hunters first, now we shift to...

    Champs: gosh, it was burg-a-geddon a while ago, now it’s champs everywhere! Good to see them back on the front line, wading into combat. Deadly? Not unmanageable, but certainly notable. Should the Creeps ever get some love, we need to get our Reavers in the champ-zone! The next class we noted was improved was...

    Wardens: like yelllow bears or most Guards, we would tend to ignore wardens until late in the fight. Now, they need some earlier love as their AoE is much stronger and the extra morale makes them tougher to bring down. Welcome news for Wardens, not a disaster for the Creeps.

    Minny and Bears: used to be a couple bears or minstrels could heal half a raid and we could not touch them, until the dps was dispatched. Now, beliveve it or not, we enjoyed feasting on bear flesh - and the healing RKs and Minnys had their hands full. Much closer to our healing rates where focused attacks brought down our best... which likely lead to satisfyiing fights in the Freep side when numbers where nearly even.

    LMs- did not note any out- so nothing really seen, as we only had a healing RK out, I can’t really comment on fire or lightening RKs at this time, so let’s turn to...

    Burgs- same as before, elite ones an issue, others manageable and squishy.

    Captains- unchanged- can likely use some love, as their heals not very potent. Finally...

    Guards- nice to see a few out last night. They seem more effective and I hope they felt better coming out. Kind of a low-to-mid-range threat now vs a non-factor.

    We heard lots of reports about one and two shotters, but in solo play with a champ and hunter, did not see that at all. In fact, quite the opposite against two elite foes. As always, curious about your ACTUAL gaming experiences.
    Last edited by Corwelleon; Jun 06 2018 at 10:21 AM.
    Aakvanark/Corwelleon

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hithlum
    Posts
    1,019
    Thanks kindly for your comprehensive detailed insightful analysis. I would love to add few points, the incredible Champion hits which now even more potent. The 146% Legacy is of the scale. The strike skill direct damage has been increased furthermore which was not needed at all in my sincere opinion, Critical defence does very little against champion. The potency is overwhelming.

    ~ Hunters,Champions,Wardens,Guar dians. The Guardian is nigh impenetrable barrier with potent self heals, little CD's and brutally powerful bleeds. Tis not the bleeds only but base direct damage, They are grave threat ,far more creeps can fathom. Luckily the Bleeds can be potted/cured which was not the case few years ago and they do not re-apply on Critical. They are not renewed. Same balled with Warden DOT's. They were non curable, now the Green/Red Curative Potion can be used. Wound/Cry ,was it?

    As for hunters Every line is boosted. I have provided the essential videos and screenshots. Bow-Master is amped, Yellow Line Traps do tremendous amount of damage, both direct and Bleed.Barrage Tier III can smite harder than ever. They cannot be cured at all. I have placed the traps , drained 50% of beast's HP with ease. Tis a mockery. The Hunter can devastate utterly any target in several seconds.

    Burglar's new FI set will provide 40% positional damage I believe, Uncertain overall they will able to vanquish with greater result. The Elite burg does not exist,

    Forget about the eventual Freep nerf. It wont happen , in particular not after recent massive re spec of particular classes. The monsters are in need of update or wont step foot outside Grams,The creeps are only saved by lack of freep's organisation,cooperation and lack of will to group at all, but wonder around alone.

    ~ Warden's Bleeds are the most powerful. Warden pre update was frightening , now fired up furthermore. The Guardians will dominate the lands of the North once more. I am not sure have you payed attention to full changes.

    I do not believe thou art fully aware of potential of Lore-master or any Freep class in general. The Ancient master is highly underestimated. Ancient Craft + Lighting storm can vaporize the poor victim.

    Its only a matter of time, it will get progressively worse for Monsters by each passing week. Give me full 24 Freep raid with 4 Loremasters,4 AOE spec Champion 4 Bow-master Feredirs, 4 Captains ,4 Guardians and 4 RKs/Mins.

    The Deathstorm potency of a champion is unbelievably high amped with Captain potent buffs and Insanely dreadful LM+s debuffs. It only takes Ancient Craft + Red to reduce Creeps mits to paper and they can re applied every 4 seconds. In general speaking the DPS is piercing and penetrate even Warleader's bubble with ease!

    The Heart seeker spam ~ Follow Raid assist target, Vanquish the threat. Blue Line guardian protects. Shield of the Dunedain and as so on. Tis the lack of proper tactics and creativity ,versatility from Freep side. Incredibly simple process ,but it is not executed because let us all trait Red or be Self styled hero and complain about getting "zerged" PVMP was not fair and will never be, Dost thou wishes the picnic within imaginary Good L-Clubb zone. Nay.

    The Freeps are superior in every single way one can possibly visualise. The only solution for creeps to vanquish the freep raid is with the greater numbers. Strength in numbers is indeed the only salvation. As I've stated before , tis a very rare scenario to witness incredibly well balanced raid with superb tactics and so on ,when everything connects the Mighty Freep is essentially immortal you will need double or thrice amount of numbers and cunning, guile to lure them, use keep ,terrain, of very little use, The mobs were useful ,yes 8 years ago.

    My point which I've noticed during the years most of the players tend to ignore is the group play.Everyone seems so obsessed about solo play. Do not observe from solo perspective. The Ettenmoors and fights were not designed to be a solo battle-field friendly experience,but group based.

    As for Burglars. The Burglar class is the essence the most useless group class and in particular Modern Burglar is a Tragi-comedy show with 5-6 seconds presence. he /she 1 shoots a target and disappears/retreats from battle. You cannot win the war that way, my Dear Randir. The champions,Wardens,Guardains,Ca ptains are great legends and warriors, not Burglars an hunter is well is overrated.

    The term overpower must be clarified:

    I'll give thee the perfect example ~ The hunter is certainly able to vaproize the target in several seconds or burglar core strength is the attack from stealth and what happens later? The classes are weak,they lack durability,heals,versatility and overall power to survive and entangle with greater numbers or withstand the heat for longer duration. A Guardian can.

    One warden and Guardian ~ small army, They can laugh in the face of monster raid while soaking up the untold amount of damage, slaying foes in the process while remaining on full morale and watching bleeds devouring their sworn enemies while hunter or burg will get torn down to pieces in seconds with maybe landing one hit or two at the best.

    Overpowered means to be versatile as well. To be able to heal,provide the support,damage,Debuff and adopt to any situation. The overpowered is not specifically uniquely related to pure Damage.

    A guardian is able to take down multi boxer alone,Thank the Thrill the Danger/Other heals,Pledge,Charge and AOE bleeds, certainly not Defiller boxer ,none who can. Charge is now 60 seconds only. Technically 30 seconds because the CD stars after you pop the initial skill. Make it 30 seconds with 60% run speed and full immunity to slow negative combat effects. The monsters are already traumatized by the sight of Guardian's presence.

    A lore -Master is Vala tier Mode.Twas always. There are few Lore-masters who will unlock the true full potential of the class and the potential of LM is seemingly infinite. It was the OP class in old days, basically untouchable, now as well with proper build. The Lore-master is immensely powerful and valuable with the greatest debuffs, unmatched Crowd Control and AOE potency which is only surpassed by Champion. The Lore master is the complete Freep class. The ally i need, pet with 200,000+ Morale, The LM can dominate the field of battle Domination ~ Power, The only class which was capable to take down raid boss alone.

    To sum it up in the end and simplify ~ Since the latest update nearly every class have been boosted and it will get worse indeed for Opposing forces.
    My Solo/group experience. I was picking down targets and selling Uruk heads and boiled Spider legs while receiving Q_Q ragging messages in private while observing the lamentations of OOC/World chat. I grouped once, yes. The Lag is the over-kill and FPS drop.

    Tis a mockery, My damage is unreal with Captain buffs and Lore-master debuffs it felt I was taking down Boars of Evendim and Sicke-flies of Midgewater Marshes.
    Last edited by Vanyaerunanethiel; Jun 07 2018 at 02:44 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Corwelleon View Post
    Well, we spent all night, first solo, then full raid on raid test-driving the new 22.2 update. Here are some initial observations from a Creep vantage:

    Hunters: red line certainly more potent, especially from ambush. However, the balance of the dps seemed much more manageable than before the update when blue-line folks could shoot down much of a group. Prior to the update, we had to kill hunters first, now we shift to...

    Champs: gosh, it was burg-a-geddon a while ago, now it’s champs everywhere! Good to see them back on the front line, wading into combat. Deadly? Not unmanageable, but certainly notable. Should the Creeps ever get some love, we need to get our Reavers in the champ-zone! The next class we noted was improved was...

    Wardens: like yelllow bears or most Guards, we would tend to ignore wardens until late in the fight. Now, they need some earlier love as their AoE is much stronger and the extra morale makes them tougher to bring down. Welcome news for Wardens, not a disaster for the Creeps.

    Minny and Bears: used to be a couple bears or minstrels could heal half a raid and we could not touch them, until the dps was dispatched. Now, beliveve it or not, we enjoyed feasting on bear flesh - and the healing RKs and Minnys had their hands full. Much closer to our healing rates where focused attacks brought down our best... which likely lead to satisfyiing fights in the Freep side when numbers where nearly even.

    LMs- did not note any out- so nothing really seen, as we only had a healing RK out, I can’t really comment on fire or lightening RKs at this time, so let’s turn to...

    Burgs- same as before, elite ones an issue, others manageable and squishy.

    Captains- unchanged- can likely use some love, as their heals not very potent. Finally...

    Guards- nice to see a few out last night. They seem more effective and I hope they felt better coming out. Kind of a low-to-mid-range threat now vs a non-factor.

    We heard lots of reports about one and two shotters, but in solo play with a champ and hunter, did not see that at all. In fact, quite the opposite against two elite foes. As always, curious about your ACTUAL gaming experiences.

    Most of this post is patently false. I watched this so called test. I later saw a melee train with cappy OB wreck your WL in less than five seconds while you were being healed by no less than 4 defilers. Not sure on memory but you may have been bubbled too.

    Wdn bleeds at 32k per tick and once, I saw the same Wdn apply 5 sets of dots on the same target in less than 4 seconds. Once I did the math it passed over 600k in the dot duration. I watched a high rank Black Arrow (Rip Hashtag) get toasted by one Blue Hunter in the span of 7 seconds. Idk why this poster continues to spread false scenarios. Being stacked with 60% healing in a Creep raid doesn't change how much disparity there is. I believe there was a comment on the bear and how it didn't take 12 to kill it anymore because only 6 were required now. I saw no feasting on bear meat nor did you. The only boon atm for creepside is the dps RK isn't sure of their capabilities as of yet. That will change in a week once they work it out. Guardians wont die unless they screw up and they can run away anytime they choose at a faster runspeed than even a warg in sprint. Burgs are still one shotting anything they cdg. LM's are roasting anything within their aoe range from 50%to 80% of creep morale at will.

    I hear Creepside is getting a new class. Spin Master: The Creep class will turn what you see upside down,inside out and make the Moors less gloomy. It has one skill on a long induction harmonizing the same tune until its channel duration ends.
    Università degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza" Sapienza University of Rome

    Graduate PhD con lode Scienze della Politica

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Barad-dûr
    Posts
    687
    The update certainly makes things more fast paced while underscoring the near necessity of group play, but it also adds insult to injury for Creeps. Guards blink in your vicinity and you bleed while hunters (regardless on rank) continue serving up retribution for their long-suffering as warg snacks. How much more must we endure though? The near silence here on the forums is deafening.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,354
    Quote Originally Posted by Corwelleon View Post
    Minny and Bears: used to be a couple bears or minstrels could heal half a raid and we could not touch them, until the dps was dispatched. Now, beliveve it or not, we enjoyed feasting on bear flesh - and the healing RKs and Minnys had their hands full. Much closer to our healing rates where focused attacks brought down our best... which likely lead to satisfyiing fights in the Freep side when numbers where nearly even.
    Because of this creeps have some chance to get some kills. DPS is massively broken on freep side but at least you aren't as god mode on minstrel as before.

  6. #6
    RE: Hashtag's violent and brutal death, my BA is a glass BB gun! he's traited to raid and i still racked up plenty of KB's last night.

    the creep game has always been about numbers, TBH the new changes do not seem like anything different from a creep perspective.

    pretty much everything freeps are doing atm, is just a repeat of the past.

    Brutal warden bleeeds? been there. Big hits from hunters? not new. Off the chart AoE damage? again nothing new.

    Freep lives matter and They have always been the golden children of Lotro. Creeps are here to provide a sort of end game mini game to freeps. as long as its fun to creep, freeps should be able to get fights up

    the problem is most hardcore creeps only pvp and since LOTRO pvmp has been an abomination for so long most are gone off to pvp in other games.

    But the changes make creepside interesting to me again, for the time being.

    be seein ya!
    .

    Mortem Tyrannis

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    Burgs are still one shotting anything they cdg.
    I can tell you with 100% certainty that this is not true. You might not be aware but the burg got a major damage reduction to all damaging skills in update 22.2. That’s not your fault though as the devs neglected to mention this in the patch notes. Overall every damaging skill was impacted but for example my cdg hits for 45k less on the middle training dummy at gv. It’s around -15k on each hit. No complaints here though. In truth we needed it. Just don’t like how the devs casually forgot to mention it.

    (aka Rastlyn)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Because of this creeps have some chance to get some kills. DPS is massively broken on freep side but at least you aren't as god mode on minstrel as before.
    agreed with this, all freep classes are doing very big dps, creeps could use -20/30% incoming damage reduction buff, i would say nerf defiler heals also but not sure about this since in raids/groups creeps can almost have perma HS debuff from hunters + other healing debuffs, heals might be too low.
    Deathlyheals r14 defiler-Deadlyline r10 warg -karnage

    freeps-faded

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,354
    Quote Originally Posted by jomanjy View Post
    agreed with this, all freep classes are doing very big dps, creeps could use -20/30% incoming damage reduction buff, i would say nerf defiler heals also but not sure about this since in raids/groups creeps can almost have perma HS debuff from hunters + other healing debuffs, heals might be too low.
    Changes should be done by taking general look to PvP exclusive effect when freeps enter ettenmoors. buff/debuff should have -critical multiplier nerf and -xxx% (100-200% mastery nerf) mastery nerf when entering ettenmoors. With limit on mastery nerf with fallback minimum cap of player can't go bellow 100-150% mastery. This would normalize freep side damage numbers significantly and lower insane critical hits done by freeps. Creeps could use probably -10% audacity damage reduction effect. Freeps also need their diminished returns CC immunity fixed. It doesn't work at the moment.

    After that creeps need generic pass on their skills. Rebalance rotations. Nerf several classes skills (like claws, power leech..). Increase skill damage of skills that are useless. Introduce few skills, like pre rez for defi and DPS stance for defi.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Changes should be done by taking general look to PvP exclusive effect when freeps enter ettenmoors. buff/debuff should have -critical multiplier nerf and -xxx% (100-200% mastery nerf) mastery nerf when entering ettenmoors. With limit on mastery nerf with fallback minimum cap of player can't go bellow 100-150% mastery. This would normalize freep side damage numbers significantly and lower insane critical hits done by freeps. Creeps could use probably -10% audacity damage reduction effect. Freeps also need their diminished returns CC immunity fixed. It doesn't work at the moment.

    After that creeps need generic pass on their skills. Rebalance rotations. Nerf several classes skills (like claws, power leech..). Increase skill damage of skills that are useless. Introduce few skills, like pre rez for defi and DPS stance for defi.
    I think you are on to something, Slip. If Creep Audacity damage reduction was scaled up by 10% - which may take a few minutes of programming resources, we would have a quick fix to blunt some of the increased dps from the latest change. However, the true fix is to take the same rigor that the devs just applied to the Freep classes to examine the skills and corruptions of each Creep class with a goal to provide some balance both with the Freeps and within the Creeps.

    For example, I note that many of the Champ skills now hit for 6-9k of actual damage to my Creep, yet our reavers return ~ 1.5 - 3k against a Freep per “comparable” skill- that’s a huge difference in base skill damage, likely due to a lack of attention. By contrast, my BA can get off shots that do several times what a Reaver can produce... Not saying the BA needs a nerf, but rather, some classes are woefully underpowered- just as champs were when compared to hunters.

    I’d like to see a hot fix that gives the Creeps a fighting chance in the short term (additional 10% reduction) and a dev reassigned to do some “not-so-fast-fast passes” to continue looking at the Creep universe now that the Freep damage tables and traits are coming into a better alignment. These lessons should be applied to the Creeps.

    In the meantime, Hashtag summed it up well when he said its all about Creep numbers... combined with the will to fight... I call that a gung-ho spirit, some may call it delusional. Come to the Moors and judge for yourself.
    Aakvanark/Corwelleon

 

 

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