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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    USA
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    2,254
    Quote Originally Posted by TeaTimeFunTime View Post
    You can still get those steeds the normal way, they have not removed that option from the game. They are just adding more options.
    sure you can, but then there's no motivation to run the old raids if this goes live. its about playing the game and raiding together to earn stuff, most don't do old raids much anymore, but they will if there's something to motivate them, this how i got some meta deeds done and worked hard for it, cause the steeds have value, but now they won't, if it drops free in a lootbox or barter.
    Pontin Level 115 Hobbit Burglar Kinship Second Breakfast Crickhollow Server. Staff member of the Lord of the Rings Discord Server, and Owner of Middle-Earth Lore discord.
    Alts: Legoan Elf Hunter, Belladonea Hobbit Minstrel, Unnari Dwarf Guardian, Jorunn Man Captain, Sallyberry Hobbit Warden. Laurelin Server, Edwell Man Hunter.


    Here's some of my Screenshots Throughout Middle Earth. Also can follow me on Twitter for Adventures in Middle Earth and more!

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,651
    Quote Originally Posted by Hejazia.Arkenstone View Post
    If you read my post that you quoted, you can see that I said it for example, meaning that it is just one of many things that are underwhelming on the minstrel in BR.
    Excellent example, because minstrels are well known for their HoT abilities. We'd really expect it to be ticking for numbers similar to those of Valiant Strike (which, by the way, has gone down to ~1.5k). You asked me how relevant I think the HoT will be. I said the question is irrelevant. Simple as that.

    What other examples are there? Obviously all your heals are going to do less. You might find that underwhelming. Doesn't mean minstrels are no longer viable as a healing class. In fact, I'm quite sure that you can't back up the claim that "the Follow Up change is the only thing keeping minstrels at the top healing spot". Also, the healing on Chord, for instance, is rather overwhelming. Just the fact that you find some of it underwhelming doesn't mean it's insufficient.

    Just what we need, another person who does not play a class and does not test it on the Bullroarer sessions to give their "feedback" on that class and berate other people on the official feedback thread for disagreeing with them when it was clearly said to not reply to other people's feedback.
    Does me not playing the class change that I'm right in saying that the Follow Up change was bad? Does it mean I'm wrong in saying that there are better solutions? Have I identified the problem wrongly? Yes, I'm going to berate people who claim it was a good change. It's a change for the worse, because it takes away from class, rather than adding to it.

    You really shouldn't be trying to play the "argument from authority" card, it's such an obvious fallacy.

    That was my point in my original post, did you even read it? I said, word-for-word, "Then they will have to buff the magnitude of the heals from Inspire Fellows, Perfect Ending, etc.". In other words, change other skills while also addressing Follow Up so that the minstrel is not left without the tools to remain viable.
    Yes, indeed, I read that you said that. Given the nature of your post, it seemed to me that you somehow saw that as a problem, because you seemingly disagreed with what I was saying. If it's not a problem, why mention it? If you agreed that it's an alternate solution to the problem, why not phrase it that way, and support my view that Follow Up needs to be nerfed? I never claimed there shouldn't be additional buffs to go alongside the nerf to Follow Up.

    Again, you clearly did not read nor understand my post. I said that there should be alternative changes to go alongside the Follow Up nerf.

    This is the 3rd time in a single post where I've had to ask you to re-read what you replied to or have to repeat myself. Maybe next time this won't happen.
    Yes, and I never argued against that, which is why I do not understand that you brought it up in the first place. As I said, since I never disagreed with that, why mention it if you do not think it's a problem that some other skills have to be changed/buffed?
    You're being so needlessly difficult I'm starting to question why you even posted something in the first place. You're not helping the discussion along in any way.

    Perhaps if you weren't being so vague, I wouldn't misinterpret things you say, and you wouldn't have to repeat things.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    32

    Angry Why don't you listen to wardens?

    1. When you gave warden +5% mits it was nice
    2. When you gave warden solo agro spear it was really good
    3. When you gave warden + 20% morale in blue it was perfect

    Defiant Challenge now give warden totally +5% mits no matter how many targets you challenge. Why did you do that?!
    Warden doesn't have any emegency skills! At all! No skills to survive!

    If warden tank smth he need time to get his 65% mits, but everytime you start fight as a tank you get 58 % mits and NOW YOU DON"T HAVE ANY CHANCE to use defiant challenge to stay alive in first seconds of fight!

    If you want to revamp Defiant Challenge and to make it only aoe aggro skill so don't forget to give warden smth in exchange!

    With all your changes and improvements warden is still not even close to cappy or guardian.

    I told you million times on this forum that warden need smth like emergency skill or skill that can help him to survive spiky strikes in the begining of the fight or if smth went wrong while raiding!

    Make "Shiled Mastery" gambit give temporary buff for -10% incoming damage!

    You give warden some nice improvements but then you nerf other skills, what for?

    Hope you see my message...
    Change yourself.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    NO raid horses from lootboxes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthiere View Post
    carn dum's putrid slime used to be a significant achievement. it used to require groups. since around mirkwood it's been obtainable without even doing the instance, but skirms. since F2P they don't require a sub or the applicable region to obtain (and there are enough free skirms, without having to buy that xpack even.)

    these mounts are how old?

    things devalue over time. if you have a car, you know this in most cases. and in a game like this, there are no 'investments' that only get more valuable as time goes on.

    grow up and get over yourselves. not everything has the value it once did.
    Some off these mounts are not supposed to devalue and they have not. But I don't care about the mounts personally, I care about raids and instances. If everything is available in the lotro store people will get bored of the game and the game will die. For example, who the hell will run Erebor 115 T2c if they add this? They are throwing content in the trash adding things like this. People ask for more rewards in scaled content. Many would welcome golden gear pieces in Erebor t2c instances, this is the opposite. They are making the rewards from these instances even more worthless.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    53
    Why isn't the community being listened to in regards to champions?

    • Yellow still out-dps red
    • DPS is still below others classes
    • Champion still don't benefit from raid fire buffs
    • Raging blade is now broken

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by TeaTimeFunTime View Post

    Exactly. The only people who are complaining are the ones who already have the horse and they don't want other players to get it so they can seem elite.
    Sorry, but this isn't true. Of the mounts here, I have three (the Angmar cluster, the Moria cluster and the Lothlorien cluster), which I spent a good amount of time working to get - but I do not have the Steed of Many Colours or the Steed of the Dale Lands. The reason for those last two is that our kin have raised at times, and even had a raid team for a while, but we're not what you'd call elite, and never completed T2 HM for Isengard Fire and Frost, and never completed Flight to the Lonely Mountain T2 HM.

    Now, would I like to get the horses attached to completing the challenge from each instance cluster? Of course, I'd love to be able to say that I've achieved that! But do I want to just be able to buy the steeds? Absolutely not - it would feel like cheating, and there would be no sense of accomplishment - I wouldn't have earned it, and I would feel ashamed that I'd given in to the desire to have it without actually achieving the requirements. It's the same as being able to skip a questline to reach the final quest because that is where the best story is. This is essentially paying to skip content, and at the same time devaluing what others have worked hard to achieve - and what is the point in that?

    So, to make it very clear, I'm massively against including the meta deed steeds in these boxes, as it devalues the achievement of completing the raids - both for those that have already done it, and those who will do it in the future. There are plenty of other steeds that can go in there, such as steeds which can no longer be acquired in game, or old festival steeds (I'd shell out some cash for these, as I'd like to complete these collections) - Faltharan's steed, which is RNG based can definitely stay, as can the hobby horse - but keep the meta deed steeds (and the ale association steed) out of it!

    If this goes live, SSG will be making an extremely daft mistake, for very little benefit.
    - Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
    - Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -

    Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by smegullol View Post
    Some off these mounts are not supposed to devalue and they have not. But I don't care about the mounts personally, I care about raids and instances. If everything is available in the lotro store people will get bored of the game and the game will die. For example, who the hell will run Erebor 115 T2c if they add this? They are throwing content in the trash adding things like this. People ask for more rewards in scaled content. Many would welcome golden gear pieces in Erebor t2c instances, this is the opposite. They are making the rewards from these instances even more worthless.
    Exactly. If you remove incentives from the content, people won't run it. There may be other incentives, but the mounts are a pretty visual symbol of this success.
    - Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
    - Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -

    Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    646
    I hope you realize that the raid horses in the box is just a distraction from all the other ####. They'll remove them due to outrage and then everyone will applaud them for listening to feedback and all will be forgiven.

  9. #84
    I agree with many people here, please leave raid rewards only obtainable through raiding.

    I would like to be able to barter for the melee dps runes with the tactical hps/dps rune token. As a guard, the tact dps/hps now no longer have any use to me. It also required me to relog before the runes disappeared from my LI's, even though I got the tokens on the first login.

    Lastly, I believe with this class balance update there should be some easier way of obtaining Imbued Legacy Replacement Scrolls - because there have been some major changes which affect the usefulness of different legacies.
    Rodgi - 115 Guardian, Abyss-Gazer, Gladden

  10. #85

    Class Updates

    I would still like the guardian yellow line to be fixed by making the fighter of shadow heal work after the mark of permanence gets obtained. When training 24 traits into any line (you can cross-train into other lines and it only counts as 1 trait toward the sidebar) the when attacking you get some morale return from "Your attacks against your marked target have a 10% chance to restore 5% of your max morale" seen on the main trait line choosing screen. Once training into 25 or more traits towards your sidebar you lose this heal so, therefore, your only self-healing in the yellow line is "thrill of danger" which can be acquired in other lines (mainly blue). Thusly, yellow is a basically useless line for end game off-tanking or tanking because blue also gives good DPS compared to yellow and the debuffs of yellow are too weak to be considered to be useful. Also, I just tested on bullroarer and it still does not work.

    Finally, the stead thing is irritating and steed of dale lands, if any, should be removed from the list because BFE t2c is still really hard to complete at 115 properly (you can try to do a naked captain run with loremaster air lore being applied to your captains and still try to complete it this way but that is still not a great method because the inferno can kill your captains that are trying to survive.

  11. #86
    Absolutely huge NO NO NO to raid mounts included in ash lootboxes. There are so many mounts which can only be aquired by mithril coins now, add a few of those in the box instead.
    But giving out raid exclusive meta-deed mounts (most of them tied to specific EXPANSION deeds) to literally anyone playing (or should I say paying)? Feels like a knife in the back from the game for someone who actually took the time to achieve those rewards through the intended normal ways. I just still hope this is some cruel joke.

  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by gaara908776 View Post
    Dear SSG,

    Conceptually I understand the uproar over providing some of those mounts as a purchasable option. However, despite the fact that I did put in the work on level to clear those raids and be one of the few to earn those mounts, it really isn't big deal in the grand scheme of things. The most challenging mount to obtain on that list is the Horse of Many Colours and I was able to get that on a freshly AoV'd character with a PUG a week after returning after not playing in 5 years.

    HOWEVER, a word of warning to the Dev's: be careful about not heeding the repeated warnings from the more serious/competitive part of your playerbase. The playstyle you're promoting in Mordor, where the best possible items can be obtained through landscape content and is often heavily RnG dependent, feels extremely reminiscent of the horrendous loot systems introduced during Riders of Rohan and Helms Deep. More experienced players during those days very openly resisted that direction of gameplay because they could see first hand how it detracted from the in game experience. Yet, any dissent was met with harsh scrutiny from Sapience, the former community manager, and many respectable players who openly disagreed, even civilly, were penalized with bans and permanent infractions against their accounts. Now, we're definitely no where near that level of censorship in the lotro community today. Nevertheless, the voices of your more competitive playerbase must be heard and heeded. IIRC, the biggest hiatus of players away from lotro was during that string of updates that included the RoR and HD expansions. Elendilmir global LFF chat went from extremely active(400+ on regular weekdays in RoI) to extremely inactive(below 150 on weekends and double digits for weekdays). This was largely due to the move away from class roles, and an increase push for players to more regularly use the cash shop to reduce the IMMENSE RnG grind to earn the best gear, especially in RoR.

    The itemization system in Mordor is heavily reminiscent of what Turbine introduced with RoR that irked so many experienced players and reduced the duration in which content felt relevant and challenging. By taking away and/or not properly reinforcing the concept of T2C as having a high level of exclusivity, you as a Developer inadvertently are reducing the incentive to continue to participate in the more challenging content that you work so hard to produce. Think of the instance clusters that saw the best amount of longevity, Moria 6 man's were run heavily at level 65 despite having been around for multiple years because they offered EXCLUSIVE items with marginal stat increases that made the instances worth running hundreds of times for many players. Additionally, ToO T2C content only had marginally better statistical advantages over T1 or Limlight Gorge gear, yet kinships rose to the immense challenge of overcoming Orthanc. Why? Again, because it provided exclusive rewards that only provided marginal increases in individual player value/power. Thus, more casual players don't feel like they NEED the best gear simply to be able to get a spot in groups. While simultaneously, more competitive players feel like they are earning exclusive rewards for their efforts.


    Despite the wall of text, my main point is that if you continue to make competitive players feel unloved by refusing to offer them moderately valuable rewards that seem exclusive for the foreseeable future, or taking away the exclusivity of rewards they have previously earned to sate the ever hungering palette of casual players, that competitive playerbase is going to feel devalued and eventually quit the game.

    Additionally, if you're going to be using your playerbase, specifically the more competitive players who are actually testing on Bullroarer, submitting bug reports, and giving detailed feedback on the forums, there definitely needs to be better communication between some of the Dev's and said players. Its frustrating to see certain classes are getting detailed developer feedback, while other classes are being left in the dark without any real communication. I like that you're essentially giving players the opportunity to supplement the workload of your QA team, for free. It's smart financially and gives players more say in what's going on. I and many other players I know are more than happy to provide this service for you, as we love the game. However, do not forget that MANY of us regularly spending hours of our time on Bullroarer are in fact part of that competitive community. I understand that sometimes the needs of the few must be put on hold for the needs of the many, but I implore you to think carefully on the direction you're taking the game in with changes like the one you're proposing with the Horse lootbox. To me it just seems too reminiscent of old systems that did massive damage to the community of the game, despite the fact that in the short term they are profitable.

    Thanks for listening.

    Sincerely,
    Fresuvi/Ez
    Hats off to this.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Amennator View Post
    I hope you realize that the raid horses in the box is just a distraction from all the other ####. They'll remove them due to outrage and then everyone will applaud them for listening to feedback and all will be forgiven.
    Totally agree with you.

    This update will be a pain in our ***

  14. #89
    First thing: Adding my voice to the chorus of people telling you NOT to put raid deed mounts in lootboxes. Now that's out of the way:

    Do not push this update out without another build. Minstrels are still in need of serious work. Yellow Champs do more than red. Raging blade is broken. RKs are in a lot of trouble due to rune nerf. These are just a few of the issues from the classes I play. I love that you are doing sweeping class and balance reworks but take the time necessary to get them right so you don't have to do them again. Thanks

    (Retired... Maybe un-retired?) Arkenstone: Immanitas R12 Burg, Gorbat R12 Reaver, Sueahpro R11 Mini, Falsified R9 RK, -The Blood Hand
    Crickhollow: Orphluk R9 Warg, Orphelun-1 R8 RK. -The Blood Hand.

  15. #90
    Learn from Helms Deep. Finish the class work before you release it.
    ~ I tank with a Beorning, my opinion is invalid. ~

  16. #91
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    5,283
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    What's this, precious, hmm?

    • Barbed Hindrance now only affects barbed arrow bleed as described.
    Oh, it is what I thought. And the tool tip was updated poorly.


  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    Learn from Helms Deep. Finish the class work before you release it.
    How to with AFK_DEV?
    Xolla;Tishina\Arkenstone

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Czech republic
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by gaara908776 View Post
    Dear SSG,

    Conceptually I understand the uproar over providing some of those mounts as a purchasable option. However, despite the fact that I did put in the work on level to clear those raids and be one of the few to earn those mounts, it really isn't big deal in the grand scheme of things. The most challenging mount to obtain on that list is the Horse of Many Colours and I was able to get that on a freshly AoV'd character with a PUG a week after returning after not playing in 5 years.

    HOWEVER, a word of warning to the Dev's: be careful about not heeding the repeated warnings from the more serious/competitive part of your playerbase. The playstyle you're promoting in Mordor, where the best possible items can be obtained through landscape content and is often heavily RnG dependent, feels extremely reminiscent of the horrendous loot systems introduced during Riders of Rohan and Helms Deep. More experienced players during those days very openly resisted that direction of gameplay because they could see first hand how it detracted from the in game experience. Yet, any dissent was met with harsh scrutiny from Sapience, the former community manager, and many respectable players who openly disagreed, even civilly, were penalized with bans and permanent infractions against their accounts. Now, we're definitely no where near that level of censorship in the lotro community today. Nevertheless, the voices of your more competitive playerbase must be heard and heeded. IIRC, the biggest hiatus of players away from lotro was during that string of updates that included the RoR and HD expansions. Elendilmir global LFF chat went from extremely active(400+ on regular weekdays in RoI) to extremely inactive(below 150 on weekends and double digits for weekdays). This was largely due to the move away from class roles, and an increase push for players to more regularly use the cash shop to reduce the IMMENSE RnG grind to earn the best gear, especially in RoR.

    The itemization system in Mordor is heavily reminiscent of what Turbine introduced with RoR that irked so many experienced players and reduced the duration in which content felt relevant and challenging. By taking away and/or not properly reinforcing the concept of T2C as having a high level of exclusivity, you as a Developer inadvertently are reducing the incentive to continue to participate in the more challenging content that you work so hard to produce. Think of the instance clusters that saw the best amount of longevity, Moria 6 man's were run heavily at level 65 despite having been around for multiple years because they offered EXCLUSIVE items with marginal stat increases that made the instances worth running hundreds of times for many players. Additionally, ToO T2C content only had marginally better statistical advantages over T1 or Limlight Gorge gear, yet kinships rose to the immense challenge of overcoming Orthanc. Why? Again, because it provided exclusive rewards that only provided marginal increases in individual player value/power. Thus, more casual players don't feel like they NEED the best gear simply to be able to get a spot in groups. While simultaneously, more competitive players feel like they are earning exclusive rewards for their efforts.


    Despite the wall of text, my main point is that if you continue to make competitive players feel unloved by refusing to offer them moderately valuable rewards that seem exclusive for the foreseeable future, or taking away the exclusivity of rewards they have previously earned to sate the ever hungering palette of casual players, that competitive playerbase is going to feel devalued and eventually quit the game.

    Additionally, if you're going to be using your playerbase, specifically the more competitive players who are actually testing on Bullroarer, submitting bug reports, and giving detailed feedback on the forums, there definitely needs to be better communication between some of the Dev's and said players. Its frustrating to see certain classes are getting detailed developer feedback, while other classes are being left in the dark without any real communication. I like that you're essentially giving players the opportunity to supplement the workload of your QA team, for free. It's smart financially and gives players more say in what's going on. I and many other players I know are more than happy to provide this service for you, as we love the game. However, do not forget that MANY of us regularly spending hours of our time on Bullroarer are in fact part of that competitive community. I understand that sometimes the needs of the few must be put on hold for the needs of the many, but I implore you to think carefully on the direction you're taking the game in with changes like the one you're proposing with the Horse lootbox. To me it just seems too reminiscent of old systems that did massive damage to the community of the game, despite the fact that in the short term they are profitable.

    Thanks for listening.

    Sincerely,
    Fresuvi/Ez

    +1 to this

  19. #94

    meta deed horses

    as i have played for the last 11 years i have most of the meta deed horses but honestly i don't care if they add in the new box you can barter for with ash t get the horses because after some of the stupid stuff Ive had to go thru to get some of the mounts id rather not complete a raid or instance cluster just to get a horse it takes too long not to mention there's better things to be doing in game. Annalisse Champion 115

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,694
    Lootbox suggestion:

    Remove the deed steeds, and then:

    * Add all the festival War-Steed cosmetics as options instead
    * And add all newer festival mounts to the old Pick-a-Mount box
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Silmelin View Post
    Lootbox suggestion:

    Remove the deed steeds, and then:

    * Add all the festival War-Steed cosmetics as options instead
    * And add all newer festival mounts to the old Pick-a-Mount box
    I have another suggestion: what about they start making a new Lootbox with different loot table, because the gorgo one is getting way overcrowded in items nobody wants anymore. The chances of getting what u want out of them is very slim...

    It's about time to get a new type of lootbox (that also opens with black key, i dont care).

  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    You really shouldn't be trying to play the "argument from authority" card, it's such an obvious fallacy.


    wow what an unbelievably condescending thing to say lol but im not quit sure i gechu...
    Argument from authority has several definitions a philosophical one, a law one and a basic day to day one. The law one is only a fallacy when we are in total agreement that the figure speaking has no idea what he's talking and is not really a "authority" therefore usually what they say has holes in it. That simply is not true as hej knows what he's talking about lol. (The philosophical one cannot be a fallacy so we'll ignore it) The basic day to day one is when someone who does not know about the other persons situation debates against it. An example would be if I was a teacher and i was trying to convince my student to do more hw, I'm not doing the hw so I dont know about the other person situation so debating against it is a fallacy. Almost like how ur trying to get minis nerfed while u just said u dont play mini...

    Ps.
    i had to talk to my professors about this, this is a lotro forums relax most people here dont even speak english lol

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,354
    Quote Originally Posted by Cenifh View Post
    I have another suggestion: what about they start making a new Lootbox with different loot table, because the gorgo one is getting way overcrowded in items nobody wants anymore. The chances of getting what u want out of them is very slim...

    It's about time to get a new type of lootbox (that also opens with black key, i dont care).
    I have better one. Lets get rid of lootboxes.

  24. #99
    I'm very worried for Warden. It looked like it was moving in the right direction but there are some issues that don't look like they will be resolved before going live. No defensive cooldown has been an issue for a long time for Warden tanks but defiant challenge could serve that purpose against a few mobs but now we don't have anything. With the way tanking works in LOTRO 90% of a tanks job is managing cooldowns and whilst we will have to keep our mit buffs up in certain situations the end result is still an inferior tank to Guard & Cappy.

    DPS buffs also went no where near far enough and I imagine DPS will be in the same spot it is on live in that Warden DPS will not be required.

  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    So now SSG supports P2W in order to get instance/raid meta deed horses.

    I have yet to see this level of bull#### from this dev.



    Remove all instance/raid meta deed steeds from this box.



    If player wants to get these steeds they do the instance/raids. Not P2W.
    no way

    until all classes are fixed and all classes are welcome into raids-- then providing raid items via a cash shop is more than legitimate. No one here is rerolling to a hunter, guardian, minstrel, or captain just to be able to do have the privilege to do end game content.

    Until Beornings and Wardens are actively sought after for raids-- then I am all for cash shop.

 

 
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