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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by hejazia.arkenstone View Post
    alright alright alright....

    May i ask why everyone is so worked up over cosmetic horses in an update that is about class balance? Can we get some feedback on the actual important things? Like only 3 posts out of 40 so far have been about the actual classes.
    oh dont look at me kidnapping this girl, look that building is on fire!!! Look there!!!

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Cenifh View Post
    Ok let me put it this way. What's wrong with being able to buy black keys and arias of valar from gold spammers on world chat as a second option?
    I mean, the same way you get your shiny steed faster buying from lootbox/vendor, we buy that stuff for cheaper.

    You see what's wrong with second options?

    There is stuff you are meant to NOT go after second options. Dont demean the steeds like that please.
    Well in your example the second option was to break the Code of Conduct, which is not what I was saying at all. Please don't put words in my mouth.

    Quote Originally Posted by gildhur View Post
    Mount cosmetics do not let you "win", so providing them as a rare option from lootboxes you can buy (OR EARN BY DROPS) is not "pay to win". Words mean things.

    Also, lootboxes have always and only ever included rewards that are available by other methods in the game, including best-in-slot jewelry. Horse cosmetics are where you draw the line? Really?

    I wouldn't have included them in the box, but I'm certainly not lighting my hair on fire over it.
    Exactly. The only people who are complaining are the ones who already have the horse and they don't want other players to get it so they can seem elite.

  3. #53
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    Jul 2017
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    208
    Mini follow up trait should be reverted immediately, before doing a final fix on healing potency of skills.

    Raid deed horses being in lootboxes is unacceptable... I feel bad for my friends working their butt off to finish Erebor t2c deeds at 115...

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by TeaTimeFunTime View Post
    [FONT=Verdana]
    Well in your example the second option was to break the Code of Conduct, which is not what I was saying at all. Please don't put words in my mouth.



    Exactly. The only people who are complaining are the ones who already have the horse and they don't want other players to get it so they can seem elite.
    You want second options, then I want second options as well. Nobody put words in your mouth.

    I dont have some of those, but I know they dont belong on lootboxes or boxes for ashes. They are raid steeds. Go raid for them. You dont go to an apple tree to harvest oranges, simple as that.

  5. #55
    carn dum's putrid slime used to be a significant achievement. it used to require groups. since around mirkwood it's been obtainable without even doing the instance, but skirms. since F2P they don't require a sub or the applicable region to obtain (and there are enough free skirms, without having to buy that xpack even.)

    these mounts are how old?

    things devalue over time. if you have a car, you know this in most cases. and in a game like this, there are no 'investments' that only get more valuable as time goes on.

    grow up and get over yourselves. not everything has the value it once did.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeaTimeFunTime View Post
    Exactly. The only people who are complaining are the ones who already have the horse and they don't want other players to get it so they can seem elite.
    Nobody is being an elite here. There's a reason those mounts were exclusive rewards. Self-explanatory to be honest. Give a proper argument why they SHOULD be in an ash box as an alternative.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthiere View Post
    carn dum's putrid slime used to be a significant achievement. it used to require groups. since around mirkwood it's been obtainable without even doing the instance, but skirms. since F2P they don't require a sub or the applicable region to obtain (and there are enough free skirms, without having to buy that xpack even.)

    these mounts are how old?

    things devalue over time. if you have a car, you know this in most cases. and in a game like this, there are no 'investments' that only get more valuable as time goes on.

    grow up and get over yourselves. not everything has the value it once did.

    No. Raid horses should not be part of p2w lootboxes.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Rielthiere View Post
    carn dum's putrid slime used to be a significant achievement. it used to require groups. since around mirkwood it's been obtainable without even doing the instance, but skirms. since F2P they don't require a sub or the applicable region to obtain (and there are enough free skirms, without having to buy that xpack even.)

    these mounts are how old?

    things devalue over time. if you have a car, you know this in most cases. and in a game like this, there are no 'investments' that only get more valuable as time goes on.

    grow up and get over yourselves. not everything has the value it once did.
    It appears to me a select few and the dev that has put forward this change has grosly Undervalued the raid obtained steeds.

    Also folks invest in items that grow with value all the time...not everything goes down in value, quite the opposite.
    lil 'obbit of Evernight...

    Paradox, Silent Paths, Ascension, Bonehunters, Legion of the Valar

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    No. Raid horses should not be part of p2w lootboxes.
    How is this pay to win? What exactly do people "win" with a horse? The horses do the same thing as any other +68% steed, but most of them have a different carpet on top that's all.

  10. #60
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    8,354
    Quote Originally Posted by TeaTimeFunTime View Post
    How is this pay to win? What exactly do people "win" with a horse? The horses do the same thing as any other +68% steed, but most of them have a different carpet on top that's all.
    To get steeds that otherwise require to do raid? Extremely hard raid on that on one case?

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by TeaTimeFunTime View Post
    How is this pay to win? What exactly do people "win" with a horse? The horses do the same thing as any other +68% steed, but most of them have a different carpet on top that's all.

    Just stick with riding any of these other horses then if all you want is the function it provides
    lil 'obbit of Evernight...

    Paradox, Silent Paths, Ascension, Bonehunters, Legion of the Valar

  12. #62
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    Jun 2011
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    4,651
    Quote Originally Posted by Hejazia.Arkenstone View Post
    Then they will have to buff the magnitude of the heals from Inspire Fellows, Perfect Ending, etc. since this Follow Up buff is the only thing keeping minstrels as the top healing class. Yes, it is stupid that you can have permanent instant cast Bolster Courage because of this, but if minstrels did not have it, then you would see that their healing capabilities will be absolute trash.

    For example, how effective do you think this 1k HoT on Raise the Spirit will be in a level 115 raid, or better yet, the new lvl 120 instances coming soon?



    I want a legitimate answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Follow Up is now simply broken. You can have -100% inductions permanently. That should never happen.

    That isn't to say that minstrel healing is fine. I have no idea if it is from a PvE point of view. But this trait is definitely broken, and if minstrels require better healing, they should use a different means of achieving that.
    Let's just start off by saying that the screenshot you posted is completely irrelevant, as some small Heal over Time effect is by no means representative of the class as a whole. It's the same as the Chord HoT on live servers. Are minstrels bad on live servers?

    The real question is: "What is it that minstrels are currently lacking?" I don't know for sure. I don't play a minstrel. I haven't healed AoM T2(c). I can attempt to answer the question, though, and propose solutions. Solutions that don't dumb down the class to an unprecedented level.
    Also, I would like to stress the following: if the current content demands ridiculous amounts of healing, that means the content should be designed differently in the future. With lvl 120 coming up soon, I think it should be more important that the minstrel is changed into a class that doesn't require insane amounts of damage in raids. Rather, the raids should be designed to reflect the fact that minstrels can no longer heal their whole fellowship to full continuously. That said, let's get on with potential problems and solutions.

    Minstrels lack AoE healing?
    Make Perfect Ending AoE, but increase the required stacks to 10
    Buff Inspire Fellows
    Bring back AoE Bolster but give it a cooldown (~12s), and significantly buff Raise the Spirit, but increase RtS's induction time, and give it a cooldown of 1s. Should also not be a "fast" skill.
    Make Coda an AoE heal
    Buff the HoT effect that you linked

    Minstrels lack single target healing?
    Buff Raise the Spirit, but remove its status as a fast skill, and give it a 1s cooldown. Also increase its induction.
    Buff Perfect Ending, reduce the required stacks to 5

    Minstrels lack burst healing?
    Don't think so, Chord heals more than enough.

    Asking a question about the relevance of a single HoT effect is simply pointless, though, and if you think the change to Follow Up is a bad one, you should speak out against it, and propose alternate solutions. Condoning it because "they need it to be viable" is just not the way to go about this. It's a "class balance" update. The first one we've seen in years (not counting the hunter/burglar gimmick they pulled off). Let's not leave classes in a worse state than we found them.

    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    I think he wants beorning to become best healers...
    Actually, I would be fine with Beornings being designated AoE healers. It seems to be what they were designed around. Same with blue captains. On the whole, though, I don't want any healer to be the best healer. I want each healer to be equally viable.
    Last edited by Giliodor; May 30 2018 at 04:12 PM.

  13. #63
    Can we please have a different Dev for Champions? True Champion DPS-Balance in Single-target Red Line, after a month of these balancing passes is still no where to be found in a raid environment (not to mention that they are being outdps'd by several classes even on the dummies, and in some cases by over 20%). Adding 5% damage here and 10% there to certain skills is not going to achieve anything. There's plenty of good suggestions on the Champ thread and the Dev is not listening. So, why ask for feedback?

    So far, there's been 0 communication from the current Dev in the Champion Feedback thread, and 1-2 lines of (usually meaningless) fixes each iteration, whereas other classes are being listened and communicated to, with plentiful of trait changes and workarounds....


  14. #64
    Seeing these steeds is a welcome edition to the game. This should help bring in some revenue without being game breaking. If you want the steeds through raids you can obtain them, if you want them solo through hard work obtaining keys you can get them that way too. Thank you Lotro.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Hejazia.Arkenstone View Post
    ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT....

    May I ask why everyone is so worked up over cosmetic horses in an update that is about class balance? Can we get some feedback on the actual important things? Like only 3 posts out of 40 so far have been about the actual classes.
    These aren't just any mounts that you might get from running Shire pie-delivery races at festivals or any such thing. If they were, no one would care. These are raid mounts that most people worked for many, many, many hours to get. Surely you can understand the difference!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hejazia.Arkenstone View Post
    Can we stop with these "do it yourself" class update threads? It's starting to get annoying to be honest.

    The devs will post their thread whenever they are ready to do so.
    It appears you've changed your mind on the value of feedback in class threads.
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Araphorn View Post
    Can we please have a different Dev for Champions? True Champion DPS-Balance in Single-target Red Line, after a month of these balancing passes is still no where to be found in a raid environment (not to mention that they are being outdps'd by several classes even on the dummies, and in some cases by over 20%). Adding 5% damage here and 10% there to certain skills is not going to achieve anything. There's plenty of good suggestions on the Champ thread and the Dev is not listening. So, why ask for feedback?

    So far, there's been 0 communication from the current Dev in the Champion Feedback thread, and 1-2 lines of (usually meaningless) fixes each iteration, whereas other classes are being listened and communicated to, with plentiful of trait changes and workarounds....
    Not the only class that has this problem,and doubt thing will get better before this hits live so back to bench for few more months till next pass.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrCuddleBear View Post
    ....if you want them solo through hard work obtaining keys you can get them that way too.

  18. #68
    Dear SSG,

    Conceptually I understand the uproar over providing some of those mounts as a purchasable option. However, despite the fact that I did put in the work on level to clear those raids and be one of the few to earn those mounts, it really isn't big deal in the grand scheme of things. The most challenging mount to obtain on that list is the Horse of Many Colours and I was able to get that on a freshly AoV'd character with a PUG a week after returning after not playing in 5 years.

    HOWEVER, a word of warning to the Dev's: be careful about not heeding the repeated warnings from the more serious/competitive part of your playerbase. The playstyle you're promoting in Mordor, where the best possible items can be obtained through landscape content and is often heavily RnG dependent, feels extremely reminiscent of the horrendous loot systems introduced during Riders of Rohan and Helms Deep. More experienced players during those days very openly resisted that direction of gameplay because they could see first hand how it detracted from the in game experience. Yet, any dissent was met with harsh scrutiny from Sapience, the former community manager, and many respectable players who openly disagreed, even civilly, were penalized with bans and permanent infractions against their accounts. Now, we're definitely no where near that level of censorship in the lotro community today. Nevertheless, the voices of your more competitive playerbase must be heard and heeded. IIRC, the biggest hiatus of players away from lotro was during that string of updates that included the RoR and HD expansions. Elendilmir global LFF chat went from extremely active(400+ on regular weekdays in RoI) to extremely inactive(below 150 on weekends and double digits for weekdays). This was largely due to the move away from class roles, and an increase push for players to more regularly use the cash shop to reduce the IMMENSE RnG grind to earn the best gear, especially in RoR.

    The itemization system in Mordor is heavily reminiscent of what Turbine introduced with RoR that irked so many experienced players and reduced the duration in which content felt relevant and challenging. By taking away and/or not properly reinforcing the concept of T2C as having a high level of exclusivity, you as a Developer inadvertently are reducing the incentive to continue to participate in the more challenging content that you work so hard to produce. Think of the instance clusters that saw the best amount of longevity, Moria 6 man's were run heavily at level 65 despite having been around for multiple years because they offered EXCLUSIVE items with marginal stat increases that made the instances worth running hundreds of times for many players. Additionally, ToO T2C content only had marginally better statistical advantages over T1 or Limlight Gorge gear, yet kinships rose to the immense challenge of overcoming Orthanc. Why? Again, because it provided exclusive rewards that only provided marginal increases in individual player value/power. Thus, more casual players don't feel like they NEED the best gear simply to be able to get a spot in groups. While simultaneously, more competitive players feel like they are earning exclusive rewards for their efforts.


    Despite the wall of text, my main point is that if you continue to make competitive players feel unloved by refusing to offer them moderately valuable rewards that seem exclusive for the foreseeable future, or taking away the exclusivity of rewards they have previously earned to sate the ever hungering palette of casual players, that competitive playerbase is going to feel devalued and eventually quit the game.

    Additionally, if you're going to be using your playerbase, specifically the more competitive players who are actually testing on Bullroarer, submitting bug reports, and giving detailed feedback on the forums, there definitely needs to be better communication between some of the Dev's and said players. Its frustrating to see certain classes are getting detailed developer feedback, while other classes are being left in the dark without any real communication. I like that you're essentially giving players the opportunity to supplement the workload of your QA team, for free. It's smart financially and gives players more say in what's going on. I and many other players I know are more than happy to provide this service for you, as we love the game. However, do not forget that MANY of us regularly spending hours of our time on Bullroarer are in fact part of that competitive community. I understand that sometimes the needs of the few must be put on hold for the needs of the many, but I implore you to think carefully on the direction you're taking the game in with changes like the one you're proposing with the Horse lootbox. To me it just seems too reminiscent of old systems that did massive damage to the community of the game, despite the fact that in the short term they are profitable.

    Thanks for listening.

    Sincerely,
    Fresuvi/Ez

  19. #69
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    408
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Let's just start off by saying that the screenshot you posted is completely irrelevant, as some small Heal over Time effect is by no means representative of the class as a whole. It's the same as the Chord HoT on live servers. Are minstrels bad on live servers?
    If you read my post that you quoted, you can see that I said it for example, meaning that it is just one of many things that are underwhelming on the minstrel in BR. Yes, it is the same on live, but the minstrels on live are much different than the minstrels on BR so your rebuttal is completely irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    The real question is: "What is it that minstrels are currently lacking?" I don't know for sure. I don't play a minstrel. I haven't healed AoM T2(c). I can attempt to answer the question, though, and propose solutions. Solutions that don't dumb down the class to an unprecedented level.
    Just what we need, another person who does not play a class and does not test it on the Bullroarer sessions to give their "feedback" on that class and berate other people on the official feedback thread for disagreeing with them when it was clearly said to not reply to other people's feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Also, I would like to stress the following: if the current content demands ridiculous amounts of healing, that means the content should be designed differently in the future. With lvl 120 coming up soon, I think it should be more important that the minstrel is changed into a class that doesn't require insane amounts of damage in raids. Rather, the raids should be designed to reflect the fact that minstrels can no longer heal their whole fellowship to full continuously. That said, let's get on with potential problems and solutions.

    Minstrels lack AoE healing?
    Make Perfect Ending AoE, but increase the required stacks to 10
    Buff Inspire Fellows
    Bring back AoE Bolster but give it a cooldown (~12s), and significantly buff Raise the Spirit, but increase RtS's induction time, and give it a cooldown of 1s. Should also not be a "fast" skill.
    Make Coda an AoE heal
    Buff the HoT effect that you linked

    Minstrels lack single target healing?
    Buff Raise the Spirit, but remove its status as a fast skill, and give it a 1s cooldown. Also increase its induction.
    Buff Perfect Ending, reduce the required stacks to 5

    Minstrels lack burst healing?
    Don't think so, Chord heals more than enough.
    That was my point in my original post, did you even read it? I said, word-for-word, "Then they will have to buff the magnitude of the heals from Inspire Fellows, Perfect Ending, etc.". In other words, change other skills while also addressing Follow Up so that the minstrel is not left without the tools to remain viable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Asking a question about the relevance of a single HoT effect is simply pointless, though, and if you think the change to Follow Up is a bad one, you should speak out against it, and propose alternate solutions. Condoning it because "they need it to be viable" is just not the way to go about this. It's a "class balance" update. The first one we've seen in years (not counting the hunter/burglar gimmick they pulled off). Let's not leave classes in a worse state than we found them.
    Again, you clearly did not read nor understand my post. I said that there should be alternative changes to go alongside the Follow Up nerf.

    This is the 3rd time in a single post where I've had to ask you to re-read what you replied to or have to repeat myself. Maybe next time this won't happen.
    Last edited by Hejazia.Arkenstone; May 30 2018 at 04:31 PM.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    To get steeds that otherwise require to do raid? Extremely hard raid on that on one case?
    You can still get those steeds the normal way, they have not removed that option from the game. They are just adding more options.

  21. #71
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    May 2017
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    307
    Quote Originally Posted by TeaTimeFunTime View Post
    You can still get those steeds the normal way, they have not removed that option from the game. They are just adding more options.
    Not a welcome option as far as I'm concerned. And plenty of us share that sentiment.

    Earn them if you want them. If not, your problem.

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    16
    From what I have seen so far the warden has gotten a simple buff. Morale and mits buff for blue and overall damage buff to red. Adding a force taunt is very nice, and nerfing DC is needed after all the buffs but I'm hoping this isn't all the changes wardens will get. A tank needs cooldown skills to use when something goes wrong in my opinion, without DC giving 90% mits I don't see wardens tanking much without healers or surviving when something goes wrong in a raid or instance. Also Shield Tactics dosn't instantly give stun immunity, getting stunned often leads to death or you losing agro so that skill needs to work properly. At the moment, you can get stunned right after using it. Morale taps are also pretty weak considering how much morale wardens have now and with DC getting nerfed.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Araphorn View Post
    Can we please have a different Dev for Champions? True Champion DPS-Balance in Single-target Red Line, after a month of these balancing passes is still no where to be found in a raid environment (not to mention that they are being outdps'd by several classes even on the dummies, and in some cases by over 20%). Adding 5% damage here and 10% there to certain skills is not going to achieve anything. There's plenty of good suggestions on the Champ thread and the Dev is not listening. So, why ask for feedback?

    So far, there's been 0 communication from the current Dev in the Champion Feedback thread, and 1-2 lines of (usually meaningless) fixes each iteration, whereas other classes are being listened and communicated to, with plentiful of trait changes and workarounds....
    +1 to the Red Warden as well. I could care less about AoE in Red, nerf it if you must. Just give us some ST DPS love because that's what matters in raids!
    Pls fix me.

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    Poland
    Posts
    14
    Please bring back DC for wards like it is on live now: 10s mit buff duration with mitigations buff aded for every target (max 5 buffs), even +5% mit buff PER TARGET
    Wards realy need this buff... make it in blue line only but dont remove it entirely

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    1,202
    Please, no raid mounts in a lootbox. Some things do not need an alternative acquisition method.
    Ishtarien - Captain
    Ishtari - Rune Keeper / Ishtarel - Hunter / Lunasa - Minstrel
    Ishtaridas - LRM 105 / Ishti - BRG 105 / Cabernetta - GRD 105 / Merlotta - CHP 105 / Medovinus - BRN 105
    The Mellowship || Eldar -> Evernight

 

 
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