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  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Remcosajax View Post
    Well no time stamp but at this point I'm gonna say that I trust you. Guess our RK needs to work on his DPS

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaara908776 View Post
    Well no time stamp but at this point I'm gonna say that I trust you. Guess our RK needs to work on his DPS
    Ye idk rk dps seems weird rn we're parsing about the same but its more risky like it can either be like 60k or 95k the numbers are a lot further apart

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaara908776 View Post
    Well no time stamp but at this point I'm gonna say that I trust you. Guess our RK needs to work on his DPS
    Or you can support your RKs with captains who have commander and OB reset sets. Without these buffs your RKs can work hard on dps, they will never reach those numbers. And dont forget to tell your LM to use bear and reaven pet debuffs on the boss, these should be always up. Maybe they used 1 brg on the boss, but I wouldn't be suprised if there were 2.
    So your RK can work anyhard without these buffs and debuffs, never will hit so hard.

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Atarandir View Post
    Or you can support your RKs with captains who have commander and OB reset sets. Without these buffs your RKs can work hard on dps, they will never reach those numbers. And dont forget to tell your LM to use bear and reaven pet debuffs on the boss, these should be always up. Maybe they used 1 brg on the boss, but I wouldn't be suprised if there were 2.
    So your RK can work anyhard without these buffs and debuffs, never will hit so hard.
    I think you might've missed part of the conversation or something. We do have all of those buffs, other classes in my group were parsing very high. RK was near the tail end. Still enough DPS to be worth bringing but near tail end.

  5. #155
    Just a suggestion to the future rebalancing of the rk whenever it might take place; instead of meddling with the class skills and skill interactions to fix the dps, a simple increase in LI tactical damage rating should do the trick and also reduce the disparity in strength that was there while having or not having the op runes.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Despotis View Post
    Just a suggestion to the future rebalancing of the rk whenever it might take place; instead of meddling with the class skills and skill interactions to fix the dps, a simple increase in LI tactical damage rating should do the trick and also reduce the disparity in strength that was there while having or not having the op runes.
    I'd say tweak skills. Smouldering Wrath and Essay far exceed the other skills in terms of DPS so really most of the buffs should go to other skills.
    ~ The devs don't want to balance classes, what chance did I have ~

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remcosajax View Post
    Now show us the guard that parsed 80k dps and was 2k short of outdpsing the hunter who parsed 82k on the same boss.

  8. #158
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    Better dev plan: tweak the damage, focus on Blue and Yellow lines.
    Immigrant from the City of Paragon. We are heroes. This is what we do.

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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by valkrye View Post
    Now show us the guard that parsed 80k dps and was 2k short of outdpsing the hunter who parsed 82k on the same boss.
    any proof from mighty faded dream parses?

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Seschat View Post
    Better dev plan: tweak the damage, focus on Blue and Yellow lines.
    Agreed. Properly scale the LIs to see how close that takes them, then alter the skills to complete the process of making Blue RKs equal to all other Healers and, just as importantly, making Yellow RKs equal to all ranged DPS. If that means a reduction in the utility of DNF/debuffs, then so be it. It's disappointing to see no listing of Yellow RKs anywhere in DPS hierarchies, just as it's disappointing to see response comments immediately return to discussions of Red/Blue RKs whenever Yellow is mentioned. I imagine those who enjoy playing Yellow Hunters (or any other neglected traitline, for that matter) probably feel much the same.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    I'd say tweak skills. Smouldering Wrath and Essay far exceed the other skills in terms of DPS so really most of the buffs should go to other skills.
    nononononononononononoonononon o devs dont listen to him rks are fine we just need a simple dps boost (fix our LI's) and we'll be good no need for an extensive re balancing

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Fraushgrish2 View Post
    nononononononononononoonononon o devs dont listen to him rks are fine we just need a simple dps boost (fix our LI's) and we'll be good no need for an extensive re balancing
    I agree. Balancing fine, revamp not so much. One thing I like about Lotro is that I don't need to learn new rotation every time an update comes.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fraushgrish2 View Post
    nononononononononononoonononon o devs dont listen to him rks are fine we just need a simple dps boost (fix our LI's) and we'll be good no need for an extensive re balancing
    Yeah, keep the class nice and easy...

    Wait, what? Why would you object to spreading the damage out between more different abilities? Just makes it more interesting to play. Fiery Ridicule, for example, could receive some decent buffs, at the expense of some Smouldering Wrath damage.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by wispsong View Post
    I agree. Balancing fine, revamp not so much. One thing I like about Lotro is that I don't need to learn new rotation every time an update comes.
    Boosting fiery ridicule/writ of fire/distracting flame/scathing mockery so that they contribute a greater % of the total DPS doesn't have to result in a new rotation, it could just result in players being better rewarded for using the current ideal rotation. Said rotation is pretty well documented in an RK forum thread Cord stickied for us.

    If I was proposing that the rotation totally changed I probably would've recommended to allow searing words to stack between RK's, increase the damage of searing words and then let us cash out t3 writ of fire. It'd be interesting to chase searing procs as the way to DPS but probably a little too RNG based for some.
    ~ The devs don't want to balance classes, what chance did I have ~

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Yeah, keep the class nice and easy...

    Wait, what? Why would you object to spreading the damage out between more different abilities? Just makes it more interesting to play. Fiery Ridicule, for example, could receive some decent buffs, at the expense of some Smouldering Wrath damage.


    Boosting fiery ridicule/writ of fire/distracting flame/scathing mockery so that they contribute a greater % of the total DPS doesn't have to result in a new rotation, it could just result in players being better rewarded for using the current ideal rotation. Said rotation is pretty well documented in an RK forum thread Cord stickied for us.

    If I was proposing that the rotation totally changed I probably would've recommended to allow searing words to stack between RK's, increase the damage of searing words and then let us cash out t3 writ of fire. It'd be interesting to chase searing procs as the way to DPS but probably a little too RNG based for some.
    The class is difficult, the hell are you talking about. There is a major difference between an rk that simply spams their strongest abilities and a one that has an actual rotation, trust me ive tried. Before i learned how to play rk in raid i was parsing like 70k but when i learned and had a proper rotation set i was parsing 100k+, we're not hunter we dont just hit random fire skill until smoulthering is up we have straight up rotation that is just as difficult as any other dps class with moderate difficulty


    Also fiery ridicule is good where it is really compared to the rest of the skills obviously for a skill with bearly any cd in should not be that high it currently hits for about 15-40k (none crit -crit) while sW ticks are about 34-90k each, Fr has a 1s cd sW 15, 1...15 (btw if you dont use fiery ridicule/writ of fire/distracting flame/scathing mockery fearly consistanly your a terrible rk)

  16. #166
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    Imo they should really look into few less used skills and make them part of fire rotation. Somehow cooperate with existing dots. Just refresh few dots while waiting for smoulder isnt very interesting gameplay but I would like to see essence of winter and chilling rhetoric be part of the rotation. Like chilling rhetoric cashing out writ of fire for big damage (like essence of flame magnitude) and remove dot from the target. Essence of winter on otherhand cooperating with some dot. For example if essay is present on target essence of winter causes small magnitude blizzard snow storm dot (like writ of fire t1) and small vulnerability to heat (-2% fire mitigation for example).
    They should also turn chilling rhetoric in fire line be generic -20% slow.

    Just something interesting like that and not just current spam. I want to use more skills and make some nice stategy into using them.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Imo they should really look into few less used skills and make them part of fire rotation. Somehow cooperate with existing dots. Just refresh few dots while waiting for smoulder isnt very interesting gameplay but I would like to see essence of winter and chilling rhetoric be part of the rotation. Like chilling rhetoric cashing out writ of fire for big damage (like essence of flame magnitude) and remove dot from the target. Essence of winter on otherhand cooperating with some dot. For example if essay is present on target essence of winter causes small magnitude blizzard snow storm dot (like writ of fire t1) and small vulnerability to heat (-2% fire mitigation for example).
    They should also turn chilling rhetoric in fire line be generic -20% slow.

    Just something interesting like that and not just current spam. I want to use more skills and make some nice stategy into using them.
    Yes i would love to use FROST SKILLS in my FIRE ROTATION, that just sounds terrible i dont know why your spamming things and why you dont find rks interesting your in the minority and if you simply spam 2 skillz waiting smoldering to get up your a terrible rk
    Estarossa, Rank 15 rune-keeper, Ark

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by sahanto View Post
    Yes i would love to use FROST SKILLS in my FIRE ROTATION, that just sounds terrible i dont know why your spamming things and why you dont find rks interesting your in the minority and if you simply spam 2 skillz waiting smoldering to get up your a terrible rk
    Once you've hit T3 writ, rk rotation is same boring thing every 10 seconds or so. There's no variation at all. No procs or buffs to keep track of in a raid setting. I'd consider it by far the most boring dps spec for a main dps class considering there's no real cutting of animations like champion, guardian, and burglar and no procs like warden or hunter. It would be significantly more interesting if they let you cash out T3 writ so you could keep on getting searing words throughout the fight.
    Eredor-Champion, Ereworn-Minstrel, Ereshorn-Runekeeper, Eresworn-Hunter, Eremourn-Burglar, Erehorn-Captain, Erelorn-Warden, Eretorn-Lore-Master, Erescorn-Guardian... And Erecorn-Master Farmer

  19. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by dselden View Post
    Once you've hit T3 writ, rk rotation is same boring thing every 10 seconds or so. There's no variation at all. No procs or buffs to keep track of in a raid setting. I'd consider it by far the most boring dps spec for a main dps class considering there's no real cutting of animations like champion, guardian, and burglar and no procs like warden or hunter. It would be significantly more interesting if they let you cash out T3 writ so you could keep on getting searing words throughout the fight.
    Yeah but tbh, animation cutting as a means to achieve respectable parses is not what dev's are intending. Sure, it's been integral to Champ DPS for a while now, but they changed clobber CD to 10 seconds to help combat animation cutting abuse during RoI. They really just need to make rotations more complex overall for all classes. I wouldn't even count what Warden's get as a "proc" as it applies automatically, and there is no difference in rotation with or without a proc. Sadly the way it works now is just random and pretty useless except for making about 10-15% of parses drastically higher than average, because double "proc" luck seems to come all at once. On the other hand, you have rotations where Champ who cuts animations vs. Champ who doesn't is like 20% DPS difference. This is far too much and it just highlights how bad attack animation duration is for certain skills. They could make the classes and rotations more flavorful and inventive without having to rely on cheesy mechanics like animation cutting.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fraushgrish2 View Post
    The class is difficult, the hell are you talking about.
    Is that what you tell yourself?

    There is a major difference between an rk that simply spams their strongest abilities and a one that has an actual rotation, trust me ive tried. Before i learned how to play rk in raid i was parsing like 70k but when i learned and had a proper rotation set i was parsing 100k+, we're not hunter we dont just hit random fire skill until smoulthering is up we have straight up rotation that is just as difficult as any other dps class with moderate difficulty
    This goes for every class... Why do you act as if it's something special? This even holds for hunters, contrary to what you claim. I'm not saying the rotation is too easy, I'm saying that some more diversity in the skills that provide most of your DPS wouldn't hurt.

    Also fiery ridicule is good where it is really compared to the rest of the skills obviously for a skill with bearly any cd in should not be that high it currently hits for about 15-40k (none crit -crit) while sW ticks are about 34-90k each, Fr has a 1s cd sW 15, 1...15 (btw if you dont use fiery ridicule/writ of fire/distracting flame/scathing mockery fearly consistanly your a terrible rk)
    I was talking about the DoT, not the initial. Glad you at least explained to us that you're a terrible RK if you only use Essay/Smouldering, that wasn't clear to me yet. Thanks.

    The RK rotation is boring and simple, after going through the build up. There should be a way to proc different tiers of Searing Words after the opener, too.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Is that what you tell yourself?

    This goes for every class... Why do you act as if it's something special? This even holds for hunters, contrary to what you claim. I'm not saying the rotation is too easy, I'm saying that some more diversity in the skills that provide most of your DPS wouldn't hurt.

    I was talking about the DoT, not the initial. Glad you at least explained to us that you're a terrible RK if you only use Essay/Smouldering, that wasn't clear to me yet. Thanks.

    The RK rotation is boring and simple, after going through the build up. There should be a way to proc different tiers of Searing Words after the opener, too.
    good comeback oof i might throw myself off a bridge



    Nope, rks dps is fairly diverse depending on the fight, and all classes have major hitting skills that are the focus of their roation (hunters have upshot/heart seeker we have essay/smoldering




    When did i say im a bad rk? Autism is a hell of a thing huh? I said if you dont use these skills fairly regularly your a bad rk, and i stand by what i said, you main as a champ, your not god of rks bruh (been playing rk for 7 years)
    The rk rotation is where it should be all fire skills are used fairly frequently, if you think its boring rks are not for you

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by sahanto View Post
    Yes i would love to use FROST SKILLS in my FIRE ROTATION, that just sounds terrible i dont know why your spamming things and why you dont find rks interesting your in the minority and if you simply spam 2 skillz waiting smoldering to get up your a terrible rk
    You clearly don't understand significance of making rotation more interesting and effect what such skill variations would have on DPS and skill curve on the class and variety from cycle to cycle rotation. Considering your comments in past, I'm certain I'm better on the Rk, but that's irrelevant to substance of my post since we already knew that, didn't we?

    Why should class have good half dozen skills that are irrelevant in DPS rotation even available for them? Making some of the m usable in your rotation is not bad thing.

    Anyway I think it works even thematically. Get frost bitten by frost skill and get small vulnerability to fire effects. Frost skill extinguishing fire skill and so on.
    Last edited by siipperi; Jun 10 2018 at 01:06 PM.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    You clearly don't understand significance of making rotation more interesting and effect what such skill variations would have on DPS and skill curve on the class and variety from cycle to cycle rotation. Considering your comments in past, I'm certain I'm better on the Rk, but that's irrelevant to substance of my post since we already knew that, didn't we?
    Damn bro your making your old man hurt...if i wanna not be lazy and state the obvious...actually no thats exactly what im gonna do, you have 2 frost skills (i mean 1 really do you really count flurry of words?) If you want to bust out your write of fire for a big pay off with essence of winter that would make that skill on smouldering lvls of good, tho it has the same cd it would make us too powerful to have 3 skills that deal substantial dmg, i guess you can nerf the other skills but your talking about a substantial redoing of a class everyone is fine with and appreciates the lvl of difficulty simply because you dont like your rotation and that fact that you dont use 1 skill frequently. I want you to name one dps skill you dont use frequently on rk (other then essence of winter and all the lightning skills because your not supposed to use lightning in fire line as you dont use fire in lightning line)

    Also after doing AoM t2c many times post 22.2 i can say that my worries were ill placed and tho rks are behind other dps classes theyre are close so a tiny boost would be fine for us the real place devs should focus on is blue line, so lets stop fussing about a very well made dps line and start talking about the worthless blue line
    Estarossa, Rank 15 rune-keeper, Ark

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by sahanto View Post
    Damn bro your making your old man hurt...if i wanna not be lazy and state the obvious...actually no thats exactly what im gonna do, you have 2 frost skills (i mean 1 really do you really count flurry of words?) If you want to bust out your write of fire for a big pay off with essence of winter that would make that skill on smouldering lvls of good, tho it has the same cd it would make us too powerful to have 3 skills that deal substantial dmg, i guess you can nerf the other skills but your talking about a substantial redoing of a class everyone is fine with and appreciates the lvl of difficulty simply because you dont like your rotation and that fact that you dont use 1 skill frequently. I want you to name one dps skill you dont use frequently on rk (other then essence of winter and all the lightning skills because your not supposed to use lightning in fire line as you dont use fire in lightning line)

    Also after doing AoM t2c many times post 22.2 i can say that my worries were ill placed and tho rks are behind other dps classes theyre are close so a tiny boost would be fine for us the real place devs should focus on is blue line, so lets stop fussing about a very well made dps line and start talking about the worthless blue line
    It wouldn't be substantial change. Just to make few skills relevant.

    Using Chilling Rhetoric every 20s to cash out writ for good 25-34k tooltip hit wouldn't be OP hit. Whole idea behind skill change is totally different than just the initial hit... Initial hit is just there for sake of it. It would make % significance of smoulder/essay combo significantly lower without need of reducing either of skills damage.

    And about essence of winter. Having 15s duration, 15s CD DoT that would be ~5-7k every 4s or 2.5-3.5k every 2s combined with small mitigation reduction would make class significantly more interesting in terms of rotation.

    Using different damage type skills in middle of rotation is not a bad thing as long as main focus is on the theme of line. Fire and induction.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    It wouldn't be substantial change. Just to make few skills relevant.

    Using Chilling Rhetoric every 20s to cash out writ for good 25-34k tooltip hit wouldn't be OP hit. Whole idea behind skill change is totally different than just the initial hit... Initial hit is just there for sake of it. It would make % significance of smoulder/essay combo significantly lower without need of reducing either of skills damage.

    And about essence of winter. Having 15s duration, 15s CD DoT that would be ~5-7k every 4s or 2.5-3.5k every 2s combined with small mitigation reduction would make class significantly more interesting in terms of rotation.

    Using different damage type skills in middle of rotation is not a bad thing as long as main focus is on the theme of line. Fire and induction.
    it wouldnt work out...You have to make it so powerful so that its worth redoing the whole rotation and reusing writ 3 times instead of just hitting better more hard hitting skills ( 24-34k is not enough for me to use chilling rhetoric)

    Ye i guess you could do that i agree(as long as its not a frost mitigation drop )

    interesting thought, When doing this you have to boost essence of winter and other frost skills substantially since all fire skillz get boosted when in combat, so who knows really until we start testing numbers
    Estarossa, Rank 15 rune-keeper, Ark

 

 
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