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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar42 View Post
    I'm waiting for the same thing. I'm so tired of the false argument that RKs should be second or third-tier dps classes because they have a rez and can use Fire to debuff mobs. At this point, Hunters are able to debate between themselves as to which of their TWO viable dps lines is the better option while RKs, for the foreseeable future (meaning at least three months), have ZERO valid traitlines. Want a healer? Mini. Want ranged dps? Hunter. Well, perhaps we may possibly sort of want someone to dnf the Minis and make it so the Hunters have an easier job, so I guess we could bring one RK, but they'd better be Red. Yellow RKs were already shunned, and now they're even weaker. PLUS the devs managed to break Red RKs. Will they fix one of the traitlines later? Perhaps. Perhaps not. We don't know. Nor do we know when this may happen. Even if U22.2 goes live in a week, it'll likely take at least 12 more weeks for another balance pass to be introduced to BR, go through 4 - 6 weeks of testing, and make it to live. As others have stated, there was no need to nerf the runes now - that could easily have waited until they were ready to show us their plans for RKs.

    Whatever they do decide to do, they need to fix Yellow. Lightning should be no more than 5 - 10% behind whichever of the two Hunter lines is the optimal choice going forward.
    Actually minstrel and RK are quite close now after changes to minstrel healing, RK being significantly better healer even on certain fights.

    Lightning RK isn't bad on live either. Sure not red RK good in groups but not that bad as people make it to be.

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Actually minstrel and RK are quite close now after changes to minstrel healing, RK being significantly better healer even on certain fights.

    Lightning RK isn't bad on live either. Sure not red RK good in groups but not that bad as people make it to be.
    If Blue RKs are close enough to Minis to warrant a spot in AoM T2C, then at least that's something.

    I agree that Lightning RKs aren't bad on live at this pre-U22.2 moment. But not bad isn't the same as good/great and likely to ever be invited to AoM T2C. How much worse will it be for Yellow, and even Red, post U22.2? Yes, we can wait to see what they decide to do next, if anything beneficial; however, we shouldn't have to endure a long summer of broken-dps uncertainty before we find out.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar42 View Post
    If Blue RKs are close enough to Minis to warrant a spot in AoM T2C, then at least that's something.

    I agree that Lightning RKs aren't bad on live at this pre-U22.2 moment. But not bad isn't the same as good/great and likely to ever be invited to AoM T2C. How much worse will it be for Yellow, and even Red, post U22.2? Yes, we can wait to see what they decide to do next, if anything beneficial; however, we shouldn't have to endure a long summer of broken-dps uncertainty before we find out.
    Well you could legit heal even as blue RK before minstrel nerf but to prefer good RK healer over average minstrel should be their goal.

    I think DPS difference is about 30%. Should be about 15% imo. Nerffing red line mitigation penetration would help a lot.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Well you could legit heal even as blue RK before minstrel nerf but to prefer good RK healer over average minstrel should be their goal.

    I think DPS difference is about 30%. Should be about 15% imo. Nerffing red line mitigation penetration would help a lot.
    I have done AoM t2c with rk heals, but i think thats more because the raid is trash and can be healed by 1 mini lol

    make the mitigation penetration a personal thing like the bear mit pierce

  5. #80
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happychappy View Post
    Why did they break the class for the upcoming weeks/months? it would have been easy to have tweaked red line so that RKs had at least one viable line until their big update. Its not like red line needs a lot of work.

    Sacrificing a class for the greater good is not the way to go. Same old mistakes repeated.
    I said in my earlier post im a fan of doing all classes at the same time, but they don't period! Do you think you can change that fact that RK is broken at this moment and will get fixed in a couple of days?? It's a choice SSG makes and whether we agree or not, it's not our decision, whether its a stupid one or not. If the opposite would have happened you wouldn't have heard anyone.

  6. #81
    What about nerfing runes AND doing class rework at the same time to avoid huge mess like any decent developper ?

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by MolagBal View Post
    What about nerfing runes AND doing class rework at the same time to avoid huge mess like any decent developper ?
    Absolutely, we pay to have a game which works correctly and effectives classes, not loot boxes we don't care about. Please when you rebuilt classes, do it right to the end ... simply nerfing runes is NOT a rebuilt !
    Last edited by Augustemary; Jun 03 2018 at 01:09 PM.
    Augustemary lore-master 105 / Panderonia RK 105

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fraushgrish2 View Post
    I have done AoM t2c with rk heals, but i think thats more because the raid is trash and can be healed by 1 mini lol

    make the mitigation penetration a personal thing like the bear mit pierce
    No different from minstrel healing several bosses in Throne alone. Its just matter of minstrel being OP but RK totally can heal Abyss in his own role without help of minstrel.

  9. #84
    Raiding RKs really got left in the ditch with this update. Raiding RKs, with this update, are just a support class taken along for a couple of in-combat reses, and to debuff targets for hunters. When a red-line guard out-DPSs a red-line RK, that goes beyond absurd!!! I mean really, what were they thinking?
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  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    Raiding RKs really got left in the ditch with this update. Raiding RKs, with this update, are just a support class taken along for a couple of in-combat reses, and to debuff targets for hunters. When a red-line guard out-DPSs a red-line RK, that goes beyond absurd!!!
    and you can say that because you did a lot of Tests in a raid on t2c on br?

    Jesus chill a bit.
    In raids rk is doing more dps(when you compare it with other melee non fire classes) as on a dummy.
    they might be second Tier dps class(on pair with all melees but a lot behind hunters) for a few weeks till rk update is coming and will bring them back/closer to hunters again.

    just relax a bit.

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasius View Post
    and you can say that because you did a lot of Tests in a raid on t2c on br?

    Jesus chill a bit.
    In raids rk is doing more dps(when you compare it with other melee non fire classes) as on a dummy.
    they might be second Tier dps class(on pair with all melees but a lot behind hunters) for a few weeks till rk update is coming and will bring them back/closer to hunters again.

    just relax a bit.
    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasius View Post
    i did tried red guard myself ang got 50k average,but sadly there was not that much time to test.
    I am quite sure with more experience,a better Rotation and bb set(yes you can cap crit+mastery with bb set) would do quite something.

    While vastin already said the terrible wound will most likly get a small nerv and with the bugfixes dmg would go up in compensation.I dont ask for more nerv,i am actually super fine with Guardians doing 55k dps.
    Seen any RKs averaging a parse like that?
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  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    Really?



    Seen any RKs averaging a parse like that?
    do you really dont understand that dummyparse is not = raid dps parse?
    to give you an example:before the changes i did 65k dps with my burgler on that dummy and 50k with my rk.
    in a raid tho my rk did 120k dps and my burg only 80k.do you get it now?

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasius View Post
    do you really dont understand that dummyparse is not = raid dps parse?
    to give you an example:before the changes i did 65k dps with my burgler on that dummy and 50k with my rk.
    in a raid tho my rk did 120k dps and my burg only 80k.do you get it now?
    If you want to be insulting, I'll go that way with you. Quite honestly, I think you're being naive thinking that RKs will be fixed anytime soon.
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
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    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  14. #89
    We just did the whole raid on t2c:

    twins:rk1(15% mit debuff+writ of fire t3):90k dps,rk2(10% and writ t2):65k.The red guard and the hunter did 80k,warden 75k.
    sagrog:Rk1:59k,rk2:56k,hunter: 83k and instead of guard we had a yellow champ(40k).warden logged beo
    Fingar:Rk1:37k,rk2:33k hunter:51k champ:54k.

    it is really not as bad as you describe it.

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasius View Post
    We just did the whole raid on t2c:

    twins:rk1(15% mit debuff+writ of fire t3):90k dps,rk2(10% and writ t2):65k.The red guard and the hunter did 80k,warden 75k.
    sagrog:Rk1:59k,rk2:56k,hunter: 83k and instead of guard we had a yellow champ(40k).warden logged beo
    Fingar:Rk1:37k,rk2:33k hunter:51k champ:54k.

    it is really not as bad as you describe it.
    Hey Drizzels, thx for contributing those numbers. The highlighted part is kind of irritating though

    Cheers
    Vala
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  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Anduil View Post
    Hey Drizzels, thx for contributing those numbers. The highlighted part is kind of irritating though

    Cheers
    Vala
    Why is it irritating?

  17. #92
    I think its funny, that guard profits from hunter and warden profits from no one for dps (which should be why guards dps is higher than wardens).
    Still, I'd say guard is a bit too high. Equally skilled wardens should deal more dps, because of harder gameplay, slower ramped up dps and having less mits. Only NS speaks in favour of guards better dps and imo the other points outweigh it. Poor wardens with light damage thats even worse than physical damage.
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  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    Seen any RKs averaging a parse like that?
    Guards don’t massively rebuff mobs and offer a double Rez whilst dpsing. When RK’s get their balance pass they will likely lose rebuff potency and hopefully the Rez in return for competitive DPS. As an RK player myself I am content to wait for that change.
    ~ The devs don't want to balance classes, what chance did I have ~

  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    Guards don’t massively rebuff mobs and offer a double Rez whilst dpsing. When RK’s get their balance pass they will likely lose rebuff potency and hopefully the Rez in return for competitive DPS. As an RK player myself I am content to wait for that change.
    And RKs don't tank mobs and bosses in raids and have a fraction of the survivability of guards. Your point? I guess your opinion is that RKs should have nothing to offer but pure DPS if they want to have "competitive DPS"?
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  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    And RKs don't tank mobs and bosses in raids and have a fraction of the survivability of guards.
    Damn. You've had a red guard tank the raid? That I have to see.
    ~ The devs don't want to balance classes, what chance did I have ~

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    Damn. You've had a red guard tank the raid? That I have to see.
    Nope, but I'd certainly trade my in-combat reses and fire mit dubuffs if I could tank mobs in yellow-line... that would be really swell! Take those nasty reses and debuffs away, and let me wear heavy armor and hold agro in yellow-line. I wanna have a line that's viable for tanking.
    Last edited by Nouri; Jun 05 2018 at 02:19 PM.
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
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  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    Nope, but I'd certainly trade my in-combat reses and fire mit dubuffs if I could tank mobs in yellow-line... that would be really swell!
    You can already heal while in DPS so what are you complaining about?

  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    You can already heal while in DPS so what are you complaining about?
    Hmmm, guards don't use Thrill of Battle in red-line?
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
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  24. #99
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    Dec 2012
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    452
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    You can already heal while in DPS so what are you complaining about?
    THis will be the cue for my quarterly reminder that RKs are supposed to be able to swap from DPS and HPS, as needed by the fight conditions? It's sort of the selling point of the class. Unfortunately, since Helms Deep, we can't, certainly not with the capability of your average stance-dancing Minstrel.
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  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seschat View Post
    THis will be the cue for my quarterly reminder that RKs are supposed to be able to swap from DPS and HPS, as needed by the fight conditions? It's sort of the selling point of the class. Unfortunately, since Helms Deep, we can't, certainly not with the capability of your average stance-dancing Minstrel.
    That really did stop being true with Helms Deep. The current system doesn't really support it and probably shouldn't support it.
    ~ The devs don't want to balance classes, what chance did I have ~

 

 
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