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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    777

    For Scenario: How excess of invisible walls affect me and players like me

    I would like to talk about some invisible walls that are put around some hills preventing players from climbing them and get a great view of the scenario around you.
    First, let me show you my own work...
    I have a facebook page dedicated to showing screenshots of my adventures throughout Middle Earth and I am proud to say that very few people have seen as many places of LOTRO as I have.
    I don't use hacks to go to the places that I do, I only use my skills as an explorer and sometimes a few "glitch" jumps, which are harmless 99.999% of the time and should not be considered exploits.
    So what do I like to do? I like to climb hills and mountains that most people don't know how to climb so I can take screenshots, find hidden gems, like a hobbit with squirrels in north downs, a hidden cemetery in the old forest, a hidden nazgul mounted on a fell beast in the eastfold, a hidden hobbit camp in bree. But most of the time, I do it because it gives me a GREAT view of the world which I can share with other people.
    Lately, I have been doing panoramic screenshots of the game. You guys can check my screenshots here:

    https://www.facebook.com/lotroscreenshots/
    Or
    https://shots.lotrokin.me/index.php?/category/joego

    So, here is the question some of you may ask:

    Am I against Invisible Walls? NO!
    1) I think Invisible Walls should be put around places that are being developed, like the Iron Hills and the Grey Mountains, since those areas are not meant to be explored until they are released.
    2) I think Invisible Walls might be important to be used around places like Restricted Areas, even though we are not allowed to stay in those areas for more than 3 seconds since we get ported back to Archet/Thorin's Gate if we do, so those invisible walls might be redundant. But if staying in those areas, even if for 3 seconds, represents a risk to our character, then perhaps these invisible walls should be placed there to protect us, but I think that's highly unlikely, as it's never happened with me before and I always get ported back to my original area if I stay in these areas.
    3) I don't think Invisible Walls should be used to prevent players from reaching "Green-land" areas that are still inside the boundaries of a zone. BUUUT... reaching these zones should be hard enough so that only a few players with a high skill in exploring can find them. Personally, I don't think there is anything special about Green-land areas, unless they are areas that are going to be developed in the future, which in most cases, it's not.
    4) Exploring the game, climbing mountains, finding gems, is a hobby that many players have. If EVERY hill or mountain gets surrounded by invisible walls, we have no hobbies and it's the end of my panoramic screenshots of entire zones. I love taking those screenshots and I have plans to return to many areas that I have been to take 360º screenshots in 2019. These screenshots are harmless as you can see by visiting my page and they do not reveal anything that should be kept under secret and they are really great screenshots too. I am sure many players are like me and like to do the same thing or just the ability to see the game through my point of view.

    So, with that said, what should be done with invisible walls? Block areas that are being developed, remove invisible walls around areas that are not being developed, unless they are outside the boundaries of any regular region. Make it difficult for regular players to reach those less developed areas (like mountains, hills and green-lands inside the boundaries of the zones), but not impossible.
    Last edited by DiogoVP; May 17 2018 at 08:07 PM.

  2. #2
    /Signed for sure.

    The potential exploration we can have in any region is being lately ridiculously cut off, cause of the add of invisible walls around mere lands INSIDE the map, lands that technically have no issues at all (I can guarantee for some of them ), in a time where we have an outstanding art-design team with top world-builders. And if u think something like "it's to prevent your character to be lost forever", well I dont think u can lose your character in anyway INSIDE the regions, even with careless designed terrain. We have many tools to get unstuck, we have instant fast travels with Mithril Coins and auto-defeat events in some case.
    We just want to play Middle-Earth, and if we wanted just to admire it, we would have stared at pics on Google Images....




    --Duf of Ark

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,576
    I'm a bit afraid of invisible walls. You can't see them so you can't be careful when hitting them, and I've had my character get stuck or die many times due to hitting one of those walls and turning the camera/character and then end up inside the wall (stuck or dead) instead of just bouncing off of it.

    This is why I'd rather not have invisible walls. Other than that, exploring is such fun, so the more we are allowed to explore, the better As long as we don't end up risking our characters of course. I've been up on mountains that I don't think were intended to be climbable, and in some areas it started feeling very "jumpy" to move my character, like if the area wasn't a real area and might have holes in it, so I left right away. Didn't want to risk getting stuck in a non-fixable way or something.


    Btw, those high mountains that are at the edge of many areas, please let us climb them at least a bit, just for the view! For example, in Enedwaith you can climb the walls a bit, and get awesome views Getting to the top isn't always needed, but being able to climb some of the way would be lovely
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

  4. #4
    I'd say that there's -no reason- to have invisible walls in parts of the game-world that are within playable territory. Zone boundaries, I can understand, although I'd wish that there'd be at least -some border hills and mountains to climb- that could be reconsidered as -playable- territory and made as an -intended challenge to climbers-. I think its definitely important to have area's that are hard to get to and have great views / screenshots as rewards.

    But for area's that are already -within- playable territory,

    For example: a new part of Bree has been made, and its been barred and locked by a closed gate. WHY?! Why not let us go into the new part of Bree that's in between the Combe Gate and the Staddle Gate? It makes ZERO sense to lock that off.

    Similarly, the part of Bree Hill leading down to it. Why, oh why, does that have invis walls? It still makes ZERO sense to block-off that territory.

    There's a lot of changes that are good, but there's also some that truly... don't make much sense. I'd love to see anything that's out in the middle of playable territory, like eastern Bree Hill, etc., to -not- have invisible walls. Pretty please?
    Phantion no longer has a character named Phantion in-game. He transferred to Landroval.

    .

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    777
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantion View Post
    I'd say that there's -no reason- to have invisible walls in parts of the game-world that are within playable territory. Zone boundaries, I can understand, although I'd wish that there'd be at least -some border hills and mountains to climb- that could be reconsidered as -playable- territory and made as an -intended challenge to climbers-. I think its definitely important to have area's that are hard to get to and have great views / screenshots as rewards.

    But for area's that are already -within- playable territory,

    For example: a new part of Bree has been made, and its been barred and locked by a closed gate. WHY?! Why not let us go into the new part of Bree that's in between the Combe Gate and the Staddle Gate? It makes ZERO sense to lock that off.

    Similarly, the part of Bree Hill leading down to it. Why, oh why, does that have invis walls? It still makes ZERO sense to block-off that territory.

    There's a lot of changes that are good, but there's also some that truly... don't make much sense. I'd love to see anything that's out in the middle of playable territory, like eastern Bree Hill, etc., to -not- have invisible walls. Pretty please?
    I totally agree with you, but I can kinda understand their reason, like they wouldn't want us to see the unfinished side of Bree with floating houses, holes in the terrain, glitchy npcs, buuuut... there are other ways to prevent us from going to that glitchy side like using fences, closed gates, rocks, hills that are hard to climb... ways that make it hard to reach those areas, but not impossible, which is what invisible walls do. And explorers like us don't mind seeing glitchy areas that are within territories. World builders only have to make sure that the people who wouldn't like to find these glitchy areas don't find them by accident, that's why it should be hard but not impossible. So here I ask you, Scenario, if there are areas that you don't want everyone sneaking into, block them with a 3 or 4-ish meters very inclined hill, or objects or buildings...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    1,628
    You and I went climbing on BR today. Absolutely /signed! I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said, but the invisible walls are infuriating and it's unfortunate that even more are being added with this region polish.
    I roleplay in a lot of the more fleshed-out off-the-map spots because a) they tend to be free of mobs and NPCs, so they're safe for lower level characters, b) they're often beautiful or interesting or both, and c) they can offer unique RP settings you just can't really find anywhere else in the game. I have heavy character and plot connections to some of these specific places, and I'd hate to lose access to them, not just because I'd really miss going there, but because it would significantly interfere with the stories I'm trying to RP in them.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    182
    /signed one of the most fun things to do is exploring outside the realms of middle earth

  8. #8
    I hate invisible walls. In Lhingris there is a invisible wall in the south and I can not understand why it is there. I dont' like this place so all other places with invisible walls.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by DiogoVP View Post
    I would like to talk about some invisible walls that are put around some hills preventing players from climbing them and get a great view of the scenario around you.
    First, let me show you my own work...
    I have a facebook page dedicated to showing screenshots of my adventures throughout Middle Earth and I am proud to say that very few people have seen as many places of LOTRO as I have.
    I don't use hacks to go to the places that I do, I only use my skills as an explorer and sometimes a few "glitch" jumps, which are harmless 99.999% of the time and should not be considered exploits.
    So what do I like to do? I like to climb hills and mountains that most people don't know how to climb so I can take screenshots, find hidden gems, like a hobbit with squirrels in north downs, a hidden cemetery in the old forest, a hidden nazgul mounted on a fell beast in the eastfold, a hidden hobbit camp in bree. But most of the time, I do it because it gives me a GREAT view of the world which I can share with other people.
    Lately, I have been doing panoramic screenshots of the game. You guys can check my screenshots here:

    https://www.facebook.com/lotroscreenshots/
    Or
    https://shots.lotrokin.me/index.php?/category/joego

    So, here is the question some of you may ask:

    Am I against Invisible Walls? NO!
    1) I think Invisible Walls should be put around places that are being developed, like the Iron Hills and the Grey Mountains, since those areas are not meant to be explored until they are released.
    2) I think Invisible Walls might be important to be used around places like Restricted Areas, even though we are not allowed to stay in those areas for more than 3 seconds since we get ported back to Archet/Thorin's Gate if we do, so those invisible walls might be redundant. But if staying in those areas, even if for 3 seconds, represents a risk to our character, then perhaps these invisible walls should be placed there to protect us, but I think that's highly unlikely, as it's never happened with me before and I always get ported back to my original area if I stay in these areas.
    3) I don't think Invisible Walls should be used to prevent players from reaching "Green-land" areas that are still inside the boundaries of a zone. BUUUT... reaching these zones should be hard enough so that only a few players with a high skill in exploring can find them. Personally, I don't think there is anything special about Green-land areas, unless they are areas that are going to be developed in the future, which in most cases, it's not.
    4) Exploring the game, climbing mountains, finding gems, is a hobby that many players have. If EVERY hill or mountain gets surrounded by invisible walls, we have no hobbies and it's the end of my panoramic screenshots of entire zones. I love taking those screenshots and I have plans to return to many areas that I have been to take 360º screenshots in 2019. These screenshots are harmless as you can see by visiting my page and they do not reveal anything that should be kept under secret and they are really great screenshots too. I am sure many players are like me and like to do the same thing or just the ability to see the game through my point of view.

    So, with that said, what should be done with invisible walls? Block areas that are being developed, remove invisible walls around areas that are not being developed, unless they are outside the boundaries of any regular region. Make it difficult for regular players to reach those less developed areas (like mountains, hills and green-lands inside the boundaries of the zones), but not impossible.
    /signed

    I've been an avid explorer like you since about 2011. I've seen some really awesome places and gotten some amazing screenshots. I was so sad the day the Fix ME: Unassigned zones become Restricted Areas that almost instantly teleported you. But I adapted. Then came the invisible wall spam. Honestly, I get why they do it. It allows the world building team to make barriers that look much more natural and make more sense, in regards to the lore, instead of just having steep cliffs all around the playable area. But man does it destroy my spirits and desire to explore. Now with the new changes to Bree-land, it took me a good 4 hours to find a way out of the map again, due to invisible walls everywhere. It would be nice if they purposefully designed a couple ways out of the map, but I doubt they will ever do that on purpose.

    One other thing, still on topic sort of, are the supposed character corrupting areas outside of the map. I've come to the conclusion that this is actually just a boogeyman. What I mean is that the devs told us this could happen in order to keep us from exploring. I do not think any such place or world hole actually exists. In all my years of exploring and talking to fellow explorers, no one has ever lost a character.

    So now I'd like to ask this thread: have any of you lost characters while exploring before? Or is this just a myth the devs tell to discourage out-of-map exploration?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DiogoVP View Post
    I totally agree with you, but I can kinda understand their reason, like they wouldn't want us to see the unfinished side of Bree with floating houses, holes in the terrain, glitchy npcs, buuuut... there are other ways to prevent us from going to that glitchy side like using fences, closed gates, rocks, hills that are hard to climb... ways that make it hard to reach those areas, but not impossible, which is what invisible walls do. And explorers like us don't mind seeing glitchy areas that are within territories. World builders only have to make sure that the people who wouldn't like to find these glitchy areas don't find them by accident, that's why it should be hard but not impossible. So here I ask you, Scenario, if there are areas that you don't want everyone sneaking into, block them with a 3 or 4-ish meters very inclined hill, or objects or buildings...
    Or they could... make the "new part of Bree" less glitchy and just open it up. Bree's supposed to be on the hillside anyway- so it still makes no sense for them to rope-it-off for a revamp. They should remove the glitches, remove the invisible walls, they don't -have- to have NPC's there per se, and open it up for exploration.

    I can kind of understand their reasons too- but on the other hand, why not finish the unfinished side of Bree?

    It would be like roping-off southern Dale even though its surrounded by playable territory.

    That's my main point: if its surrounded by playable territory, it shouldn't have invisible walls barring player-access, unless its literally a cliff-face that's impossible to climb. It's so jarring to be up on Bree Hill behind the Prancing Pony, to see what -should be playable terrain- to my east, and to get hit with invisible walls on the way down instead. Since they are revamping the graphics, etc., in these areas, they really should consider taking that extra step, rather than just doing 3/4th's of something and abandoning it thereafter...
    Phantion no longer has a character named Phantion in-game. He transferred to Landroval.

    .

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,154
    While I appreciate the efforts to make the edges of the landscape more visually appealing, implementing this through the use of invisible walls feels rather clunky to me. I'd much rather be denied passage by an unscaleable cliff than by a cliff which looks as if I might be able to climb it, only to be bounced back by an invisible wall - I'm really not a fan of this!
    - Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
    - Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -

    Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    2,576
    Quote Originally Posted by Tirian-Hammerfist View Post
    While I appreciate the efforts to make the edges of the landscape more visually appealing, implementing this through the use of invisible walls feels rather clunky to me. I'd much rather be denied passage by an unscaleable cliff than by a cliff which looks as if I might be able to climb it, only to be bounced back by an invisible wall - I'm really not a fan of this!
    Me neither. If it looks like I can climb it, I will try to do it, and it's frustrating to be bounced back over and over and over again while you figure out where you are allowed to go, plus you can get stuck if you are unlucky.
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    777
    Quote Originally Posted by Tirian-Hammerfist View Post
    While I appreciate the efforts to make the edges of the landscape more visually appealing, implementing this through the use of invisible walls feels rather clunky to me. I'd much rather be denied passage by an unscaleable cliff than by a cliff which looks as if I might be able to climb it, only to be bounced back by an invisible wall - I'm really not a fan of this!
    Yeah... I remember examples like the Cape of Belfalas which were separated from Havens of Belfalas and Dor-en-Ernil by two broken bridges, before the cape was added.. And Harondor and the Morgul Vale are separated from Ithilien by a closed gate, Gorgoroth is separated from Nurn and the Morgul Vale by Gates and the Mountains of Shadow, Enedwaith is separated from Minhiriath by a closed gate and hills, the Shire is separated of South Downs and West Farthing by closed gates and hills... Evendim is separated of Northern Ered Luin by hills, the High Pass is separated from Rhovanion by rocks, Lothlorien is separated of the Vales of Anduin also by rocks, etc, etc, etc... so I think these are much more natural blockages than invisible walls in places that it simply does not make any sense for them to be there.
    I hope Scenario removes the invisible walls around the Hills of Ered Luin and the Barrow Downs/South Downs and take our feedback in consideration when changing the other Eriador areas in U23.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sarasota, FL, USA
    Posts
    3,286
    Quote Originally Posted by DiogoVP View Post
    I would like to talk about some invisible walls that are put around some hills preventing players from climbing them and get a great view of the scenario around you. Am I against Invisible Walls? NO!
    1) I think Invisible Walls should be put around places that are being developed, like the Iron Hills and the Grey Mountains, since those areas are not meant to be explored until they are released.
    2) I think Invisible Walls might be important to be used around places like Restricted Areas, even though we are not allowed to stay in those areas for more than 3 seconds since we get ported back to Archet/Thorin's Gate if we do, so those invisible walls might be redundant. But if staying in those areas, even if for 3 seconds, represents a risk to our character, then perhaps these invisible walls should be placed there to protect us, but I think that's highly unlikely, as it's never happened with me before and I always get ported back to my original area if I stay in these areas.
    3) I don't think Invisible Walls should be used to prevent players from reaching "Green-land" areas that are still inside the boundaries of a zone. BUUUT... reaching these zones should be hard enough so that only a few players with a high skill in exploring can find them. Personally, I don't think there is anything special about Green-land areas, unless they are areas that are going to be developed in the future, which in most cases, it's not.
    4) Exploring the game, climbing mountains, finding gems, is a hobby that many players have. If EVERY hill or mountain gets surrounded by invisible walls, we have no hobbies and it's the end of my panoramic screenshots of entire zones. I love taking those screenshots and I have plans to return to many areas that I have been to take 360º screenshots in 2019. These screenshots are harmless as you can see by visiting my page and they do not reveal anything that should be kept under secret and they are really great screenshots too. I am sure many players are like me and like to do the same thing or just the ability to see the game through my point of view.
    /signed

    Quote Originally Posted by Daugon View Post
    So now I'd like to ask this thread: have any of you lost characters while exploring before? Or is this just a myth the devs tell to discourage out-of-map exploration?
    I've done a lot of extra-boundary exploration and I have never had an issue with losing a character. I escaped boundaries on Live, on Bullroarer, and on a previous test server (Isengard?).
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir


  15. #15
    In Lhingris there is a big invisible wall in the south I died on several times. This is one of the biggest game killer for me.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    777
    Quote Originally Posted by auximenes View Post
    /signed


    I've done a lot of extra-boundary exploration and I have never had an issue with losing a character. I escaped boundaries on Live, on Bullroarer, and on a previous test server (Isengard?).
    I would avoid using the word "extra-boundary" as world builders can interpret that as you exploring restricted/fix-me areas. I have never been able to explore these areas and I've heard from a few players that it can corrupt your character, but if you're talking about out of the map areas that are inside boundaries, then yes, I have also never had any issue like that!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sarasota, FL, USA
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    3,286
    Quote Originally Posted by DiogoVP View Post
    I would avoid using the word "extra-boundary" as world builders can interpret that as you exploring restricted/fix-me areas. I have never been able to explore these areas and I've heard from a few players that it can corrupt your character, but if you're talking about out of the map areas that are inside boundaries, then yes, I have also never had any issue like that!
    I'm talking about outside the boundaries completely, not within a playable zone. Two areas I can tell you off-hand that I escaped to was the land east of the North Downs which you could walk to the northern side of the Lone-lands from and also I escaped the southern boundaries of Southern Mirkwood and was able to travel far to the south where it says Brown Lands on the map and then over to what became the Great River zone. It was all very unfinished and consisted mainly of flat plains and odd angular ridges and mountains. There was an escape from the north side of The Shire which let you go along south of Evendim too.
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir


 

 

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