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  1. #1

    Lightbulb Feedback: Low-level Eriador anniversary quests

    General Feedback

    I appreciate the effort SSG has made to include more players in the anniversary Scavenger Hunt. However, many of the quests (and the meta-deed) will have to be started and finished by characters while they're between the levels 35 and 51. I'm concerned that this will only include a small number of additional characters, and still completely leaves out characters between levels 51 and 90.

    I'm also concerned that players will start these quests, finish some or all of them, then feel compelled to complete the full versions in a following year when they're higher level for the additional rewards. Players might become resentful about completing all these tedious activities a second time on the same character.

    I'm wondering if it might not be best to set these low-level quests aside for now and come up with a more comprehensive solution for next year's anniversary festival. Even if SSG still intends to offer these low-level quests, an 11-day encore of the festival this year might not be the right time to introduce this, given their current buggy state. The last thing SSG needs to do is frustrate even more players by giving them quests they find out they can't finish or will have to repeat.



    I'm testing with a level 41 human minstrel.

    I'll edit this post with further observations.


    Eriador Year 1 Tales: Frodo


    • I was not able to see or interact with any remembrance objects in Bag End with this quest active. Consequently, I was unable to complete this quest.
    • I was not able to see or interact with any meal objects in Tom Bombadil's house with this quest active. Consequently, I was unable to complete this quest.


    Eriador Year 1 Travels: Towering Monuments
    • I was unable to advance the objective "Visit the Bounder's Bounty Statue" with this quest active. I ran all around the statue. When I tried to interact with it, I got the error "This object does nothing." Consequently, I was unable to complete this quest.
    • The original Year 1 Travels objective "Visit the Giant's Needle" is not included. This is a location in the Misty Mountains, with level 45 elite opponents nearby. This location is in Eriador. Is it just considered too difficult for players under level 51? You've included the Tomb of Elendil in year 2, which is much more of a challenge.


    Eriador Year 1 Trifles: Old Foes
    • I didn't experience any issues with this quest or its objectives.


    Eriador Year 2 Tales: Sam

    • I was unable to visit Bill the Pony outside the Prancing Pony in Bree. I saw a quest ring on the minimap that identified him, but I couldn't see or interact with him, even after clicking the ring on the minimap. Consequently, I was unable to complete this quest.


    Eriador Year 2 Travels: Tavern Crawl, Eriador

    • This quest doesn't exist, presumably because it would be identical to the normal version. It's not required by the Eriador Anniversary meta-deed. However, the fact that it doesn't exist is confusing.


    Eriador Year 2 Trifles: Reflections I

    • I was unable to test this quest because Instance: The Tomb of Elendil can't be soloed by most characters below level 51, and I was unable to find another player on Bullroarer to help me test it.


    At this point, I'm stuck and unable to continue testing.
    Last edited by Fredelas; May 10 2018 at 12:08 PM.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for raising this issue. We've already looked into it, overcome our embarrassment at the mistake, and are working on the fix. :-)

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Thanks for raising this issue. We've already looked into it, overcome our embarrassment at the mistake, and are working on the fix. :-)
    I imagine SSG has already invested too much time and effort to turn back now, but please at least consider removing the maximum level requirement to accept all the quests.

    What problems does adding a maximum level solve?

    • No serious problems that I can think of.


    What problems does adding a maximum level create?

    • Some players who invest extra time to begin the lower-level set of quests might be prevented from getting the rewards they want from that effort.
    • Players level 52-90 might feel they're being excluded from two sets of quests now, not just one.
    • Some players close to level 51 might be dissuaded from participating in other anniversary festival activities (or doing almost anything else in the game at all) for fear of outleveling the scavenger hunt.
    Last edited by Fredelas; May 10 2018 at 01:40 PM.

  4. #4
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    New quests don't help my mid-level characters at all. Most are over 51 but too low to do the original quests. So I guess they have to wait some more.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredelas View Post
    General Feedback

    Eriador Year 1 Tales: Frodo


    • I was not able to see or interact with any remembrance objects in Bag End with this quest active. Consequently, I was unable to complete this quest.
    • I was not able to see or interact with any meal objects in Tom Bombadil's house with this quest active. Consequently, I was unable to complete this quest.

    DrO, if you need comparison data, I was able to successfully complete these two things on BR last night with Tiriion, level 24 Captain.

    As a mild aside, since you can take both the Eriador and regular version of the quests if the year is unlocked, clicking on the remembrances and doing all the other things of Eriador Year 1 Tales: Frodo also completed the same objectives for the regular one. Of course, I wasn't able to complete the higher-level options in the regular version, but the game acknowledged both quests at the same time. Is it possible some weird synergy between the regular and Eriador versions allowed mine to complete but Fredelas' to fail?

    Things to make you go hmm.

    Drood.
    What I do, I do in the name of peace.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Druidsfire View Post
    DrO, if you need comparison data, I was able to successfully complete these two things on BR last night with Tiriion, level 24 Captain.

    As a mild aside, since you can take both the Eriador and regular version of the quests if the year is unlocked, clicking on the remembrances and doing all the other things of Eriador Year 1 Tales: Frodo also completed the same objectives for the regular one. Of course, I wasn't able to complete the higher-level options in the regular version, but the game acknowledged both quests at the same time. Is it possible some weird synergy between the regular and Eriador versions allowed mine to complete but Fredelas' to fail?

    Things to make you go hmm.

    Drood.
    I didn't accept the high level version of any of the quests. Perhaps having the high level version active at the same time allowed you to complete the objectives I couldn't.

  7. #7
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    Yes, the bug is that the phasing was keyed to the high level version and not the low level version. So while you COULD complete the low level version by also taking the high level quests at the same time, that's not ideal!

    We set the maximum level low because we want to make it extremely clear that this was a duplication of the main scavenger hunt event. We didn't want anyone feeling they had to or were being asked to complete this version as well as the original! (For the same reason, there are no new rewards; they are a subset of the originals.) I can certainly see the other side of the argument, however. Does anyone feel that there is a better organic dividing line between the low and main versions? Level 70, say? Or 85?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Yes, the bug is that the phasing was keyed to the high level version and not the low level version. So while you COULD complete the low level version by also taking the high level quests at the same time, that's not ideal!

    We set the maximum level low because we want to make it extremely clear that this was a duplication of the main scavenger hunt event. We didn't want anyone feeling they had to or were being asked to complete this version as well as the original! (For the same reason, there are no new rewards; they are a subset of the originals.) I can certainly see the other side of the argument, however. Does anyone feel that there is a better organic dividing line between the low and main versions? Level 70, say? Or 85?
    It seems as if there's an argument to be made to do three tiers of anniversary scavenger hunts that pretty much mirror the Valar boosts. So, level 50 (Eriador), level 95 (Rohan), level 105 (Gondor). I know it's more work to make a second set of Cliff's Notes for something that's ultimately for a set of cosmetics that don't really affect gameplay, but in terms of armchair development, that's how I'd approach the idea. You'd also have the headache of how to apply the rewards and the metas and the titles (could someone achieve the meta titles by doing Eriador one year, Rohan the next year, and Gondor the third year and have it count for the overall deeds?)

    Drood.
    What I do, I do in the name of peace.

  9. #9
    I have a question: if I complite low-level versions of the quests, would I be able to do every high-level quest later? And get all the rewards as well?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    We set the maximum level low because we want to make it extremely clear that this was a duplication of the main scavenger hunt event. We didn't want anyone feeling they had to or were being asked to complete this version as well as the original! (For the same reason, there are no new rewards; they are a subset of the originals.) I can certainly see the other side of the argument, however. Does anyone feel that there is a better organic dividing line between the low and main versions? Level 70, say? Or 85?
    The reason that people were, and still are, so upset about the anniversary scavenger hunts is that they were supposed to be a celebration of LOTRO by all players. But you placed such severe restrictions on them. You threw a giant party and denied a bunch people access to it. And now you're doing it again. The point of contention is that players felt excluded from what should have been fun, casual, celebratory content. Any level restriction will do that.

    Don't have a "dividing system" at all. No level restrictions. People who did the original ones should be able to recognize that they are the same rewards. You can put up a giant pop-up message if you want. And if level 115 players who did all of the original ones want to do these new versions...? Let them! Denying high level characters access to what should be some fun events is going to feel as bad for them (well, maybe slightly less) as it did for low level characters who were denied the original fun events.

    It's a festival.

    It's not an epic quest.

    It's supposed to be casual fun to celebrate LOTRO.

    Let the players do them. All players.

    I'm constantly baffled at how LOTRO devs make festival activities with arduous tasks and harsh consequences for not succeeding. If you want to make epic quests, make epics quests. We love epic quests! But come festival time, let players have some casual fun and get some cosmetic rewards.

    All players.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    We set the maximum level low because we want to make it extremely clear that this was a duplication of the main scavenger hunt event. We didn't want anyone feeling they had to or were being asked to complete this version as well as the original! (For the same reason, there are no new rewards; they are a subset of the originals.) I can certainly see the other side of the argument, however. Does anyone feel that there is a better organic dividing line between the low and main versions? Level 70, say? Or 85?
    Will we be able to complete both this new low level version and the high level version on the same character if we want to?

    Personally I would prefer there being no max level since that will stop completionists from being able to do both on their high level characters. Those who doesn't want to do both can pick one and can chose to skip the other, but some of us will want to do both
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silmelin View Post
    Will we be able to complete both this new low level version and the high level version on the same character if we want to?

    Personally I would prefer there being no max level since that will stop completionists from being able to do both on their high level characters. Those who doesn't want to do both can pick one and can chose to skip the other, but some of us will want to do both
    It.

    Sergio :-)
    Moved from Riddermark to Landroval on 2/10/1015!

  13. #13
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    I never understood how and why there is even need to celebrate 10 (11) year journey in this game if they arent going to include all/most of areas and so on. If you arent high enough just do next year. Its nod to players, not nod to level 5 player specifically.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Arabani View Post
    I have a question: if I complite low-level versions of the quests, would I be able to do every high-level quest later? And get all the rewards as well?
    Yes, the way it is now, if your character is below level 51, you can eventually complete both sets of quests and get both sets of rewards. (You'll probably have to wait until next year when you're higher level to finish the regular set of quests.)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredelas View Post
    Yes, the way it is now, if your character is below level 51, you can eventually complete both sets of quests and get both sets of rewards. (You'll probably have to wait until next year when you're higher level to finish the regular set of quests.)
    Wait, there are different rewards in the low level set that the ones in the high level one? I can not to get rewards from the low level set with my 115?

    Sergio :-)
    Moved from Riddermark to Landroval on 2/10/1015!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Olgomil View Post
    Wait, there are different rewards in the low level set that the ones in the high level one? I can not to get rewards from the low level set with my 115?

    Sergio :-)
    The low level quests and deeds don't have any new rewards. They're just a few of the same rewards you get from the high-level version.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredelas View Post
    The low level quests and deeds don't have any new rewards. They're just a few of the same rewards you get from the high-level version.
    Perfect, thank you for the clarification.

    Sergio :-)
    Moved from Riddermark to Landroval on 2/10/1015!

  18. #18
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    Pretty sure I've seen quests where you only need to complete one objective out of several to advance. Perhaps we could make the low-level versions like this? Make the lowest-level objective required and all the rest optional? Then players could complete the quest up to whatever point they could attain at their level, then move on. I think this would let even low levelers complete everything. Except the instance boss ones I suppose. Maybe you could just add "Wave to Jagger Jack" to those.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    We set the maximum level low because we want to make it extremely clear that this was a duplication of the main scavenger hunt event. We didn't want anyone feeling they had to or were being asked to complete this version as well as the original! (For the same reason, there are no new rewards; they are a subset of the originals.) I can certainly see the other side of the argument, however. Does anyone feel that there is a better organic dividing line between the low and main versions? Level 70, say? Or 85?
    I'd suggest renaming each of the quests and deeds "Novice" instead of "Eriador" to indicate they're lower-level versions of the same activities. LOTRO uses the term novice in other contexts to refer to lower-level characters, so it should hopefully be just as easy to localize as "Eriador".

    For example, "Novice Year 1 Tales: Frodo" and so on.

    I'd recommend just removing the maximum level altogether from the Novice quests. Once players realize they're just a watered-down version of the higher level quests, they can use the Filter function to hide the quest rings for either or both sets if they want.

    This way nobody gets left out, and everybody gets the same chances at the same rewards. (Twice, if they want!)

    Edit: You could also rename the original quests to "Veteran" to indicate they have harder objectives. Calling the easy quests "Novice" would also give you an excuse to remove a couple more difficult objectives (like Tomb of Elendil), even though they're technically in Eriador.

    These quests would then follow the same paradigm as other festival events like the snowball fight, shrew stomping, and beer brawl that have easy versions and then harder versions with more difficult objectives.

    In conjunction with removing the maximum level requirement, I'd suggest players only be able to accept one version of each quest at a time. For example, if "Novice Year 1 Tales: Frodo" is active, "Veteran Year 1 Tales: Frodo" would not be offered. That way, high level players can't double up on the quests and earn both sets of rewards by doing the activities only once. If they want the extra copies of rewards from the Novice quests, they can do those parts again later.
    Last edited by Fredelas; May 11 2018 at 10:00 AM.

  20. #20
    Last year these quests should have originally been set up so year 1 was L15; year 2 was L25, and each subsequent quest was 10 levels higher. There would be no need for 2 versions. Why in the world does year 1 take you to Henneth Annun?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZoneTripper View Post
    It's a festival. It's not an epic quest. It's supposed to be casual fun to celebrate LOTRO. Let the players do them. All players.
    /signed
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir


  22. #22
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    After some consideration, we plan to remove the level 50 limit from the low-level version of the scavenger hunt. As I mentioned above, we originally placed the cap out of concern that some players would feel compelled to play the same quests twice. However, the feedback in this thread makes a compelling argument for going the other way.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    After some consideration, we plan to remove the level 50 limit from the low-level version of the scavenger hunt. As I mentioned above, we originally placed the cap out of concern that some players would feel compelled to play the same quests twice. However, the feedback in this thread makes a compelling argument for going the other way.
    I think this decision will result in the least frustration. I hope you'll consider only allowing players to do the either the easier version of a quest or the harder version at a time, instead of both simultaneously.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    After some consideration, we plan to remove the level 50 limit from the low-level version of the scavenger hunt. As I mentioned above, we originally placed the cap out of concern that some players would feel compelled to play the same quests twice. However, the feedback in this thread makes a compelling argument for going the other way.
    Thank you. With a bunch of chars over 50/51 but a long way from the higher level range in our kinship we appreciate that change of mind. As others have already stated: it is a festival, supposed to be fun to participate.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    After some consideration, we plan to remove the level 50 limit from the low-level version of the scavenger hunt. As I mentioned above, we originally placed the cap out of concern that some players would feel compelled to play the same quests twice. However, the feedback in this thread makes a compelling argument for going the other way.
    Thank you kindly! This is much appreciated by us completionists!
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

 

 
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