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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2016
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    Champion Feedback Thread

    • Champion skill damage is being increased across the board.
    • Blue Line:
      • Champion Blue Line Set Bonus "Glory" is being changed to a flat 10% melee damage reduction.
      • Morale Bubble from the Blue-line spec skill "Sudden Defence" is being converted to a % bubble covering ~15% of the player's unmodified Max Morale.
      • Sudden Defence's morale bubble bubble grants +10% melee damage whilst active.
      • “Riposte” now grants “Sweeping Riposte” by default.
      • Some blue line traits have been rearranged in the tree to address balance issues when buying traits outside specialization
        • Sweeping Riposte: Row 3 -> Row 2
        • Placed Strikes: Row 4 -> Row 3
        • Tactical Mitigation Increase: Row 1 -> Row 3
        • Vitality Increase: Row 2 -> Row 1

    • Yellow Line:
      • Blade Wall’s inherent damage has been increased dramatically. The bonus damage from the trait ‘Barbed Wall’ has decreased in proportion. This was done to make ‘Barbed Wall’ less of a “must-have” trait.
    "FriendlyHat"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    1,746
    We are excited to be able to bring you this class work on Bullroarer, and look forward to reading your feedback. In order to get the most from your feedback, we would very much like you to do the following in this thread:


    • Make sure your feedback is focused on the class work seen in the Release Notes and the writing above, or focused on your specific feedback regarding the class in cases when you feel it necessary to discuss things beyond what is in the notes.
    • DO NOT REPLY TO OTHER POSTS IN THIS THREAD TO PROVIDE YOUR OPINION ON THEIR POST. We want to be able to use this thread to foster a productive discussion between you and the development team, and that means we are less interested in your opinion about someone else's opinion. If you are responding to another poster in this thread, it should not be to provide your opinion about their post. If you are providing feedback that is not in-line with another person's post, you can simply provide that information independently. Posts about someone else's feedback that are opinion-based in nature WILL be deleted from this targeted feedback thread. If you must have this discussion, please do so in a new thread on the Bullroarer forums, and not in this thread.
    • Please be civil. Insulting, harassing, abusive, or profanity/filtered profanity-laden posts will be deleted. We welcome critical feedback as it relates specifically to the work being done, but this thread is not the place to provide your opinion on the development team itself, or your view on the historic work that has been done or not done in regard to class balance. In order to get the most use out of this thread, you can expect me to be a bit more heavy-handed on moderation than I typically am.
    • Recognize that this class balance work is not a comprehensive and final adjustment to classes, but is rather the first in a series of changes aimed at improving LOTRO's classes throughout the game. We are happy to read about what further work you would like to see, but want to make sure you understand that this is not the final step in this process.


    There is some chance that we will not respond immediately to your comments today, as we would like to gather some feedback initially in a relatively "neutral" way prior to providing responses. Thank you for your help in making sure we get this right, both now and in the future, and thank you for the time you spend on Bullroarer in the coming days to try out these changes in-game.
    Community Manager, Lord of the Rings Online
    Follow LOTRO on: Twitter - Facebook - Google+ - Pinterest - Twitch - YouTube
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    coolcool

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    4,652
    I'm sad to see no changes to red line champions. The current iteration of the class is so far from where it originally started out. That is a shame, because currently, it feels like a total gimmick. This has several reasons:

    - Fervour management is non-existent with the final tier of the Ardent Rage trait in yellow
    - The class completely relies on critical hits due to the Critical Damage Multiplier legacy that has been increasing steadily over the past few years
    - (Related to the above) Partial BPE's have been increased across the board, and champions have suffered as a result. Not only can their attacks be parried, unlike those of a hunter, there is also no such thing has a "critical partial BPE". That is to say, the critical magnitude is completely lost when an attack is partially BPE'd.

    Suggestions to resolve these problems:

    - Remove the final rank on Ardent Rage
    - Increase damage of all Fervour builders (Wild Attack, Swift Strike/Blade) substantially, so that they are worth using for damage
    - Decrease the magnitude of the Critical Damage multiplier legacy
    - Increase base damage to compensate
    - Give red line champions and -x BPE penetration modified (like the hunter bow legacy), so that they can bypass more partial BPE's (finesse does not work against those)

    Further notes:
    - People below might say that yellow line's Rend Armour should be buffed, so that the armour debuff is more effective. Please don't do this. Champions are a DPS class, not a debuffing class, and buffing Rend Armour will only lead to more gimmicky playstyles where it's more optimal to go into yellow for single target DPS.

    Will edit later with more feedback.

    Edit:
    I can see the damage value on certain skills has been altered, but for most abilities this is barely noticable. Deep Strikes, however, was nearly tripled in damage.
    More importantly, animations were sped up. This is an exceptionally good change, and I commend you for it. Thank you. However, you seem to have forgotten to reduce the delay after using Strike skills, because currently, there's an awkward pause after most of them. If you reduce this delay, I, and many others, would be incredibly grateful.
    Last edited by Giliodor; May 10 2018 at 05:37 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    I'm sad to see no changes to red line champions. The current iteration of the class is so far from where it originally started out. That is a shame, because currently, it feels like a total gimmick. This has several reasons:

    - Fervour management is non-existent with the final tier of the Ardent Rage trait in yellow
    - The class completely relies on critical hits due to the Critical Damage Multiplier legacy that has been increasing steadily over the past few years
    - (Related to the above) Partial BPE's have been increased across the board, and champions have suffered as a result. Not only can their attacks be parried, unlike those of a hunter, there is also no such thing has a "critical partial BPE". That is to say, the critical magnitude is completely lost when an attack is partially BPE'd.

    Suggestions to resolve these problems:

    - Remove the final rank on Ardent Rage
    - Increase damage of all Fervour builders (Wild Attack, Swift Strike/Blade) substantially, so that they are worth using for damage
    - Decrease the magnitude of the Critical Damage multiplier legacy
    - Increase base damage to compensate
    - Give red line champions and -x BPE penetration modified (like the hunter bow legacy), so that they can bypass more partial BPE's (finesse does not work against those)

    Will edit later with more feedback.
    "Champion skill damage is being increased across the board."
    First line of the changes includes a baseline damage increase. This might mitigate some dps issues. However Dev's as far as partial's are concerned and the pandora's box that is finesse, these issues will need to be addressed in the long term. Overall the changes look good as a start

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyHat View Post
    • Yellow Line:
      • Blade Wall’s inherent damage has been increased dramatically. The bonus damage from the trait ‘Barbed Wall’ has decreased in proportion. This was done to make ‘Barbed Wall’ less of a “must-have” trait.
    In my opinion, Barbed Wall is still I must-have, Blade Wall is maby the most important Skill for a good yellow line DPS, so you always want to have its damage as high as possible.

    The Damage increase mostly affects all the Red skills (in yellow it's just Bladewall and Raging Blade), but Remorsless Strike got a bit weaker (why?).
    The overall DPS Increase on the Dummys seems okish (i honestly don´t know where champ is now the DPS ranking, because hunter/RK got changed)
    The Traitpoints Changes in the Blueline allow you to take Ripost without wasting to much skillpoints, what could be usefull in some situations but seems uselles in most instances or the raid (when you are traided red)

    Overall its clearly a Buff that mostly benefits Red champs, what is a good thing.
    But I really hoped for more "advanced" Changes ,other then just raw Skill damage increase (Hunter, Mini and Guardian got way more complex changes).
    Bpe, is still the main crippling factor for a good and constant Champion DPS , dual wielding vs. twohanded weapons is also something that could need some work ( maybe you could buff the trait Weapons Master and add like 5% crit chance or something if you are wielding a two-handed weapon).
    Gertes

  6. #6
    i have not tested hunters yet but without even trying yellow line is now about the same as an rk, which is god awful but more of a statement about how bad rks are rn

    Either way with the champ i like that yall scaled the trait trees super nice but blue line still is not good enough to actually tank, also it consumes a metric ton of power which is something we cant do jack about since lm power restore is now trash
    i think you should add some more taunts to the champion and since they cant block their evade/parry should be veryyyyy high (they should prolly get this from their trait line) more importantly scale all the cd/last stand skills and we'll be in business

    yall took blade wall wayyyy too high im hitting close to 100k with it bring it down to like 60k remember that this ius hitting like 10 targets so thats a ton of dps

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    As a former Champ main who had to switch to Hunter to DPS in most endgame instances, the damage buff across the board is most welcome. I think red line could use an additional set of damage buffs as overall at 115 it doesn't come anywhere close to Hunter or RK damage. Not to be chosen over a Hunter or RK for single-target DPS roles, but to at least be useful for instances where a single-target Champ can be extremely helpful to the group (and where AoEs should be avoidable).

    Just looking at the Blue line trait changes, I agree with most of them. Bubbles and main stat bonuses really need the buff to make them viable at 115. However, I disagree with moving the Tactical Mitigation trait from line 1 to line 3. Personally, I have found gearing a Champ for T2 instances at 115 can be a real challenge mainly due to the mitigation caps. Even with virtues at 20, 7-8 Tactical Mitigation Essences, and decent armor; I can only reach about 65k Tactical Mitigation (not T2-overcap, which is about 77k). Unless there's a major change to mitigations for Heavy Armor classes, especially for Champs, it's going to be difficult to gear for endgame as a DPS melee class.

  8. #8
    I've done some testing with both the Berserker and Deadly Storm specializations against the Eyes & Guard Tavern training dummies, and they appear to be roughly similar in overall DPS with maxed-out gear and Legendary Items (the results I got with yellow line are a little above 30k against a single target, with red line at 35k or so).

    My personal impressions so far are that red line needs a further damage increase against single targets, to further distinguish its role from yellow line. Our AoE specialization should be doing plenty of damage on its own now when engaging multiple targets simultaneously, but there would not be much reason for red line if it did not do noticeably more damage in single-target situations. Perhaps a chance for Devastating Strike to occasionally proc a free Merciful Strike use with no Fervour cost (with the Devastation set bonus trait from Berserker) would accomplish this? Due to Merciful Strike being classified as Fast and therefore able to be chained right after any other skill use, an occasional free proc would passively increase single-target DPS.

    As for the Martial Champion changes, they all make sense so far. However, Dire Need is really in need of a rework, due to our Morale completely outpacing our Power by the time we reach level 115. Aside from incorrectly stating that the power cost can be decreased through a Legendary Item Legacy, the overall heal is extremely small compared to what Dire Need was once capable of. It might work better if the heal was instead a large percentage of the Champion's maximum Morale, with a fixed 30% Power cost, and the Power cost increase portion of the associated Imbued Legendary Item Legacy changed to a temporary maximum morale buff. Increasing the amount of Morale healed when using Bracing Attack in this specialization would also work well.
    Last edited by RingOfFire; May 10 2018 at 03:51 AM.
    One less Orc in the world is a good thing, and one less leader among the Orcs is a great thing.

  9. #9
    After doing some testing on BR, this is what I've found so far.

    - There seems to be a very small buff to base damage to skills damage. Varying between ~10% - 20%. Hardly any noticeable change to Remorseless or Merciful, if anything, those skills seem to hit lesser than on Live servers.

    - Skills in Red-line feel a bit faster, which is good, but there is now a horrific skill delay after each skill, looks like the old bug is back, which was fixed in U18 I think. This needs an urgent fix. Moreover, in Yellow line, Blade-wall and Rend are now feeling extremely slow, skill delay is affecting these two particular skills a lot.

    - This was the parse I got on the dummy in Red line, with 62k Critical Rating and 215k Physical Mastery. 6.3% Partial Evades, and a few other tests I got around 8-9% partials as well. So, I guess it's safe to assume that they fluctuate around 10%.

    Red-line: 'Thou didst maintain a DPS of 38,360.090 over the last three minutes of our momentous conflict!'



    Yellow-line: (EDITED, updated parse posted a few posts down below). 42K Parse.

    This is a major problem, Red line should be a lot higher in Single Target DPS fights, or it becomes useless (as it is now on live servers).


    This is what needs to happen in the next build for Champions, in my opinion.

    - Significantly increase the base damage of Brutal Strikes, Ferocious Strikes, Remorseless Strike, Merciful Strike, Devastating Blow, Wild Attack and Swift Strike.

    - Fix the skill delays, because right now the class is feeling very clunky.

    - Allow Champions to bypass Full Evades (including Partials) if they are behind their targets and are at full Fervour. This will knock two birds with one stone, as it's going to fix unnecessary partials avoidances problem which Champs face while dpsing and it might just bring Fervour management back into play.


    Please remember that this is a melee class, which LOTRO always punishes in Raids, it should be in the very top DPS output on Training Dummies, because the mechanics in the raids will slow it down compared to Ranged DPS, which are shooting safely from a distance, completely out of harms way. From what my friend told me, Hunters with HS reset set are parsing 50-55k (which is going to be a lot more with LM and RK Fire Debuffs), and Red Burglar around 55k+ margin. Red Champions are well 15k behind the margin.

    Also, one other thing. This is not a discussion of Yellow line, about AOE being be the main focus of Champion. That is simply not true. For the past few updates, not many fights (or any in that case) favor AoE more than Single-target fights. Bring Champion Red line back to the top, like it was in pre-RoR.
    Last edited by Araphorn; May 10 2018 at 06:51 AM.


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Araphorn View Post
    After doing some testing on BR, this is what I've found so far.

    - Tooltips damage remains unchanged for both, Red and Yellow-line, only Bleeds have increased to almost double (which are still insignificant and looks un-intentional). If anything, tooltips for Remorseless Strike and Merciful Strike have been decreased. Is this intentional?

    - Skills in Red-line feel a bit faster, which is good, but there is now a horrific skill delay after each skill, looks like the old bug is back, which was fixed in U18 I think. This needs an urgent fix. Moreover, in Yellow line, Blade-wall and Rend are now feeling extremely slow, skill delay is affecting these two particular skills a lot.

    - This was the parse I got on the dummy in Red line, with 62k Critical Rating and 215k Physical Mastery. 6.3% Partial Evades, and a few other tests I got around 8-9% partials as well. So, I guess it's safe to assume that they fluctuate around 10%.

    Red-line: 'Thou didst maintain a DPS of 38,360.090 over the last three minutes of our momentous conflict!'



    Yellow-line: 'Thou didst maintain a DPS of 34,548.488 over the last three minutes of our momentous conflict!'

    I ran out of power after 2m20s in this Yellow line parse, while keeping Second Wind and Pots mostly on CD, so the remaining 40s were spent with lower amount of skills used. I also did not swap between 2H and DW for certain skills in this parse, so the parse can be higher, resulting in almost same as Red line. This is a major problem, Red line should be a lot higher in Single Target DPS fights, or it becomes useless (as it is now on live servers).


    This is what needs to happen in the next build for Champions, in my opinion.

    - Significantly increase the base damage of Brutal Strikes, Ferocious Strikes, Remorseless Strike, Merciful Strike, Devastating Blow, Wild Attack and Swift Strike.

    - Fix the skill delays, because right now the class is feeling very clunky.

    - Allow Champions to bypass Full Evades (including Partials) if they are behind their targets and are at full Fervour. This will knock two birds with one stone, as it's going to fix unnecessary partials avoidances problem which Champs face while dpsing and it might just bring Fervour management back into play.


    Please remember that this is a melee class, which LOTRO always punishes in Raids, it should be in the very top DPS output on Training Dummies, because the mechanics in the raids will slow it down compared to Ranged DPS, which are shooting safely from a distance, completely out of harms way. From what my friend told me, Hunters with HS reset set are parsing 50-55k (which is going to be a lot more with LM and RK Fire Debuffs), and Red Burglar around 55k+ margin. Red Champions are well 15k behind the margin.

    Also, one other thing. This is not a discussion of Yellow line, about AOE being be the main focus of Champion. That is simply not true. For the past few updates, not many fights (or any in that case) favor AoE more than Single-target fights. Bring Champion Red line back to the top, like it was in pre-RoR.
    I want to start off by saying this isn't an opinionated statement. I have seen/had similar results there is definitely something wrong with attack duration in both red line and yellow line that is especially noticeable when using a 2-handed weapon. Yellow line is actually seeming to equally parse with red line, and yellow does better in a raid environment generally because of mitigation penetration passive from yellow line capstone. Red line dps, especially on a training dummy should be right up there with Hunters/Red burglars considering the advantages that both of those classes have in a raid/group setting.

  11. #11
    Thank you for your efforts on improving champions.

    Additional updates I would like to see for champs:
    1) Bracing attack heal should be scaled up properly.
    2) Rend armour reduction should be scaled up as well
    3) a solution should be implented to fix all the partials b/p/e that are making champion's dps lower than other dps classes.
    4) Critical rating from the Flurry buff should be scaled up properly.

  12. #12
    Did another 3 minute parse of Red line on the new dummy. This time with a slightly more glassier build (220k Mastery and 64k Critical), and popped consumables.

    DPS target dummy says, 'Thou didst maintain a DPS of 41,043.332 over the last three minutes of our momentous conflict!'



    Still 19k DPS short of top parses which top Burgs and Hunters are getting.


  13. #13
    Did another parse in Yellow line 2H, and its higher than Red line. I was bursting around 44k till I ran out of power around 2m30s.

    DPS target dummy says, 'Thou didst maintain a DPS of 41,807.356 over the last three minutes of our momentous conflict!'

    Almost 42k parse at around 3 minutes. Blade wall contributed 11% of the DPS.



  14. #14
    Hello,

    Some suggestion.

    Blue line

    Masochism Increase => Is this "Reflect 30% of damage" calculated with (partial physical b/p/e + damage taken) or just with (damage taken) ? I feel first option will be better I am not sure about it but will be better for generate Threat, isn't it ?

    Dire Need => need some revamp or adjustment. we do not have enough power for efficiency auto heal. Reduce CD and/or give up more % life restoration. Trait boost isn't enough too.

    Unbreakable => " +X Tactical Mitigation" is so useless. Should be "+ X %Tactical Mitigation" or "+ X % reduce damage" for example.

    Horn of Champions Transform it to a real forced taunt or see below.

    True Heroics => Update description and put it in this is a forced taunt. More player don't know about it. And maybe reduce CD or see my suggestion about Horn of Champions.

    Bracing Attack => Nice but need reduce cd. 30s is really bad.

    Blade Wall => need to give 1 fervour pip.

    “Riposte” now grants “Sweeping Riposte” by default. => I hope this mean we get the two skill after proc.

    Globally i feel block for champion is an error with his philosophy. We should have better reduce damage, finesse buff (to put properly blade wall and horn debuff) and incoming heal instead. Maybe a buff for One-Handed weapon and Two Handed weapon.

    Red and yellow line

    I read more post about great work suggestions and work to do. i feel i can't say more and better that it.
    Last edited by Papou_sous_la_montagne; May 10 2018 at 07:08 AM.

  15. #15
    Hello there,

    Very happy to see some blue line champion buffs overall, looking forward to playing this some more.
    I'm hoping we can see a little more happening to this though considering in my eyes most of the buffs are to survivability which is fine by me already.
    I don't know what the devs intend the champion tank to be.

    If the champ tank is supposed to be close to the guard/wardens, then I'd say they are not purely because these classes are way smoother into phase transitioning in a boss fight.
    Champs straight up have a harder time (while managable) in most situations than the other 2 which I mostly base on not having proper force taunts.
    From what I know they have 2, the single target 30s cooldown, solid skill, and the aoe True Heroics (I think it's called) which is on a 2 minute cooldown.
    compared to the other classes this is just a no-go in terms of consistancy.
    I think for champions in blue the aoe force taunt cooldown could easily be lowered to like 45s to 1 min cooldown when you compare it to other classes.
    In my eyes this would be a big deal on making champ tanks a great class to play.

    Nevertheless very happy with what you did change, because this makes it a lot more viable in most cases already.

    Keep up the good work!

  16. #16

    blue line

    Since no one mentioned it here, let me do it.

    when you tanking in blue line and have masochism, after you take damage from the mob you should generate aggro for that mob and you can see the red indicator for aggro on top of you normally.

    But what I see is when you PBE the mob that red indicator doesnt show up. Which I understand that it doesnt generate aggro. Now if you consider tanking +6 mobs, you are going to PBE a lot. So this(lets call it

    bug) makes masochism %70 less efficent please take a look at it. Also I agree with most of my fellow champs here.... increase red line dps

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    4,652
    I am seeing numbers that are very similar to Araphorn's, averaging around 40k DPS in red line.



    DPS target dummy says, 'Thy DPS was 41,132.735 per second!'
    Clear disparity due to me re-entering combat after the dummy green phased (how to avoid that?).

    This DPS seems very reasonable when compared to the DPS of fire RK's, however, it clearly still falls way behind hunters/burglars. Since the tactical DPS ratings for fire RKs will likely be increased as a result of a nerf to the relics, I think it's safe to say that red champion needs a significant damage increase as well, in order to become competitive.

    However, I really don't get anywhere near 40k single target DPS in yellow line. I'm probably bad at yellow line, though.

    After actually doing multiple parses, it has become very clear that the delay after strike skills needs to be reduced drastically. Doing so will result in a notable DPS increase. After doing that, please consider boosting the single target damage of red line champions to more closely match hunters and burglars. I emphasise red line because it's of great importance that yellow and red do not get buffed equally. That would simply result in champions playing yellow for single target as well as AoE. For the same reason, please don't increase the potency of the Rend Armour debuff.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    I am seeing numbers that are very similar to Araphorn's, averaging around 40k DPS in red line.
    Nice numbers, thanks for contributing. I think it's evident enough now that Champ Red line needs plenty of work. I'm hearing some Hunters are peaking at 70-75k with old level 105 raid sets, and Burgs not far behind at 60kish. Not to mention that those Hunter parses will nearly double if you give them consistent LM and Fire RK Debuffs, which Champs have almost no benefit from.

    (Send me a PM if you want tips on ST Yellow line, don't wanna derail this).


  19. #19
    Some things i would like to add:

    -The first attack of Raging Blades got nerfed compared to live (intended?)
    - remorseless strike got nerfed
    -Trait tree Damage and legacie damage for bladewall just add damage to the mainhand componend (first attack), if you dualwield the second attack (offhand) has super low damage compared to the first attack
    - My Dwarf champ deal like 10-15% less damage than my highelf, because some elf/high elf/men animations are much faster than the dwarf ones

    overall numbers need to be higher to comped with hunter, and even rk got a massive nerf he is still more useful in the raid, due to debuff/rezz

    I hope for further improvements.
    Last edited by Gertes; May 10 2018 at 10:58 AM.
    Gertes

  20. #20
    This is what I got in yellow single target while in red I was averaging about 40k.. Blade wall shouldn't be the 1# damage skill and I'd rather just have more damage spread across all skills than the deep strikes bleed and blade wall damage tripled.


  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    Thanks for the particularly excellent and well-written feedback. It's especially good to see the stuff based on checking things out on Bullroarer. Much appreciated.
    Community Manager, Lord of the Rings Online
    Follow LOTRO on: Twitter - Facebook - Google+ - Pinterest - Twitch - YouTube
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    coolcool

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    102
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Thanks for the particularly excellent and well-written feedback. It's especially good to see the stuff based on checking things out on Bullroarer. Much appreciated.
    All the discussion about using level 105 set bonuses here too... Was it intended for 115 characters to be using 105 gear (some with set bonuses you can't even get anymore from Pele/Osgiliath instances) to achieve the best damage/utility?

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyHat View Post
    • Morale Bubble from the Blue-line spec skill "Sudden Defence" is being converted to a % bubble covering ~15% of the player's unmodified Max Morale.
    • Sudden Defence's morale bubble bubble grants +10% melee damage whilst active.
    Sudden Defence seems buggy atm. When you are trading blueline, without reaching the second passiv trait in Blue (i mean the passive traits on the left side, Good Defence/Strong Offence), the percentage scaling bubble is working ( its more like 10-12% then 15% of the players max mora)l. But when you got the second passiv trait activ, sudden defence becomes the old bubble with like 2,5k value. The left sudden defence Tootlip is with 10 points spend and the right one with just 1 point spend.



    I would also like to add that 10% Meledamage is nothing, (currently you can reach like 400% Mele Damage) so 10% Mele Damage, is damagea increase of about 2,5% (it obviusly depends on your physical mastery). I would suggest to change this, to 10% Skilldamage and apply this to all Skills/Traits that somhow change your Meledamage.
    Last edited by Gertes; May 10 2018 at 04:19 PM.
    Gertes

  24. #24

    Sudden Defensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    Sudden Defence seems buggy atm. When you are trading blueline, without reaching the second passiv trait in Blue (i mean the passive traits on the left side, Good Defence/Strong Offence), the percentage scaling bubble is working ( its more like 10-12% then 15% of the players max mora)l. But when you got the second passiv trait activ, sudden defence becomes the old bubble with like 2,5k value. The left sudden defence Tootlip is with 10 points spend and the right one with just 1 point spend.

    I would also like to add that 10% Melee damage is nothing, (currently you can reach like 400% Melee Damage) so 10% Melee Damage, is a damage increase of about 2,5% (it obviously depends on your physical mastery). I would suggest to change this, to 10% Skill damage and apply this to all Skills/Traits that some how change your Melee damage.
    The release note says ~15% of the player's "unmodified" Max Morale, which apparently equates to 4617 morale (5193 with legacy) for a level 115 man race champion. Given that most tank builds run in the range of 160k-240k morale atm, a 5k bubble is not significant. Mobs/bosses frequently hit for 20-40k++. ~15% to 30% of the champs actual max morale would make more sense imho, resulting in a 30k to 60k bubble for a tank with 200k morale. Other tanks how more powerful "sudden defense" skills (-70% incoming damage and +70% parry on captain, +20% b/p/e on guard) but longer cool downs. I feel a 30-50% bubble would start to bring champs on par with other tank builds, effectively providing them with 15s protection that would allow them to take 2-3 big hits.

    EDIT:

    I am also seeing the issue reported by Gertes where, once I have spent enough trait points to get the second passive trait, the bubble magnitude is reduced to the old bubble mag. I am getting a bubble (before spending trait points) that is 17% of my total max morale (before token buff), giving a 35k bubble @ 200k morale. I still feel like this could be stronger but this is a step in the right direction. Of course, for t2c tanking this is not enough, for t1 tanking it is almost too much.
    Last edited by keztryl; May 11 2018 at 02:35 AM.

  25. #25

    Other Champion Defensive Skills / Suggestions.

    Some additional suggestions for champ blue line defense skills:

    1. Dire need is in serious need of attention. The champion's power pool seems low compared to some other tank classes, and their power consumption higher. For this reason, sacrificing power for morale doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. Also the ratio or power to morale that we see now (1 power : 25 morale), is no where near what is was when this skill was conceived (1 power : 3 morale). I would prefer if Dire Need sacrificed Fervour for a heal (along the lines of 10% of the champ's max morale per fervour pip) or a % based heal (30% of power gives 30% of champs max morale as base with higher gains with the legacy). The skill has a 2 minute CD, so it should provide a more substantial benefit than Sudden Defense. I feel like this skill should provide the champ with a big heal in the range of 50% to 70% of full health.

    2. Increase the base duration of adamant by 5 seconds (from 10s to 15s, 15s to 20s with legacy) or increase the max increase on the legacy from 5s to 10s. This would put in more in the ball park of similar tank defensive skills, keeping in mind that in order for the champ to receive the full benefits of Adamant they may need to build fervour (or delay the execution of other skills that cost fervour) in order to gain what for other tank classes often get as an instant benefit.

    3. Reduce the CD on Bracing Attack and increase the length of the +15% incoming healing modifier. A 10-20 second CD/duration would be ideal. The lack of fervour generation skills in blue would be much improved with a reduced cool down of BA, whereas the ability to maintain the +15% incoming healing buff would be similar to captain's ability to maintain battle-hardened stance (or warden's ability to keep up defensive buffs). I would prefer a 10s CD on this skill (given that it is a very small heal), but even something like a 15s buff duration of with a 20s CD would make this skill so much better, and a more organic feeling part of the Martial Champion rotation.

 

 
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