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  1. #201
    Is there any word on when the next round of changes will be announced? I'd hate to think they are leaving the current classes where they stand now, with so many issues unaddressed. Some improvements were made, but there are many long-standing bugs that have existed since the inception of trait trees that were completely overlooked, as well as new ones that were introduced for most every class... Not to mention blue-line really didn't see any meaningful changes whatsoever.

    A list of long-standing bugs/issues that were not addressed:

    • Staff-Sweep damage is delayed about 2 seconds from the skill animation.
    • Burning Embers spread using Gust of Wind while spec'd red are not able to be upgraded to Searing Embers.
    • Searing Embers created from Burning Embers only stack with Burning Embers created from Improved Sticky Gourd; Searing Embers created from Sticky Gourd do not stack with Burning Embers created from Improved Burning Embers. (If a target has 3 Burning Embers applied from Improved Sticky Gourd, casting the skill Burning Embers will overwrite these currently active DoT's, while Burning Embers from Improved Sticky Gourd will always stack alongside Burning Embers from the skill.)
    • Searing Embers only stacks up to three times. (I know this is by design, but now with a cooldown again on our Searing Embers upgrade, Gust of Wind, I don't think this artificial limit is necessary.)
    • Lightning Cashout damage always prioritizes Searing Embers over Burning Embers.
    • Stun immunity (Sign of Power: Righteousness) does not apply when used on a target that is rooted during the application, yet still goes on cooldown.
    • All Target Resistance legacies (Fire/Damaging/Debuffing Skills) do not do anything/increases enemy resistance depending on who tested it.
    • Enfeeble does not properly account for the bonus provided by the Sign of Power Durations/Ratings legacy. (here)
    • Debuffs that tier-down after the first 10s because of Enfeeble can be resisted during this tiering-down.
    • Pet cooldown clockfaces do not always accurately reflect the cooldown time remaining on skills. (Also true for captain and spider pets.)
    • The blue trait Loyalty will go on cooldown without a pet being summoned (should not work if no pet is out).
    • The skill Shatter Arms for the bear pet tests against resistance when it should test against physical avoidance.
    • Fire/Frost-lore skills have a higher resistance than all other debuffs (excluding secondary debuffs). (here)
    • Loremasters require a ridiculous amount of finesse to be reliable in t2 instances (see above link).
    • Loremaster secondary debuffs (Turn Up the Heat, Warm Up, Deep Freeze, Cool Off, and lightning debuffs) are resisted at a much higher rate than anything else on any class.
    • After traiting Wild Fire/Chill Wind (yellow), Fire/Frost Lore will not refresh when cast on a target already debuffed by these skills. Only Wind Lore will refresh them.
    • Burning Embers DoT effects created by Improved Sticky Gourd do not show up when the Effect Display Options for Selection is checked (don't count as effects "cast by you").
    • Wisdom of the Council suffers from the immediate skill bug. (sometimes goes on cooldown when double-clicked without casting its effect.)
    • Pleasant Breeze trait still says it increases % power restored in description.
    • Pleasant Breeze heal magnitude is much too low considering unreliable proc chance.
    • Water-Lore has no initial heal anymore (first heal it provides is delayed by 4s).
    • Fourth tier of Ring of Fire trait still gives the increased radius despite no longer saying so in the trait description.
    • Inner Flame heal magnitude is negligable at level cap, especially for pets with upwards of 300k morale.
    • Eagle's Sacrifice (eagle rez) only works when it is actively attacking something, not when on passive.
    • Catmint doesn't increase pet skill damage despite saying it does.
    • Staff-skill/autoattack damage hasn't scaled since level 100.
    • Staff sweep doesn't restore power anymore when used on a flanked target.
    • Stamp out the Fire (blue, tier 1 sidebar) does nothing.
    • After summoning any combat pet, there is a brief skill delay where you can't use any skills.
    • The tier 3 blue trait Prepare for War has not scaled to account for Mordor stat inflation.


    Some of these may have since been stealth-fixed as I haven't tested many in at least a year, so if anything is outdated please call me out on it. Also, if I missed any, let me know. I'll update the list as needed.
    Last edited by ColMcStacky; Jul 16 2018 at 05:24 PM.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod View Post
    Here i would like to see some merging/consolidation in the future. Like: "Base Damage of Nature's Furry Skills" and also some more Skill/Trait-Tree clarification in that case: like Ring of Fire is only available in the Master of Nature's Fury-Tree but doesn't count as a Nature's Furry Skill (i have no idea why this skill is a "lost lore") and then some legacies, which are useful for the other Trees.
    But back to EgtW and NF: i did yesterday just for fun an Abyss T1 run as DD LM. And it was really fun. In such situations, a well-played and well-equipped LM does not have to be ashamed compared to a champion. For single-target damage: at Fingar my damage was up to 35K (ok, it was T1, but in my group we didn't have a Cappy.) I use different Book+Staff for Single and for AoE damage.
    You also right with that, that the legacy for EgtW is not worth to slot it. Albeit i still use EgtW often for the 6s stun (if i have more that three targets).
    I was always under the impression the Nature's Fury legacy only affected the capstone redline skill and not all Nature's Fury skills? NB might be a risk of getting what you wish for here, it isn't entirely a disadvantage that LMs really only ever need 1 staff and not multiple weapons and LI grind like other classes.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Lightning Cashout damage always prioritizes Searing Embers over Burning Embers.
    this might not be bug. I thing the damage out of the cash out is a bug. If the damage would be twice as cash out from burning embers, it would be ok (for me).

    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post

    Some of these may have since been stealth-fixed as I haven't tested many in at least a year, so if anything is outdated please call me out on it. Also, if I missed any, let me know. I'll update the list as needed.
    Staff sweep doesn´t regenerate power if used on the flanked target.
    Stamp out the Fire (blue line 1st bonus) does nothing.
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik
    Eglish isn't my native language, sorry for mistakes

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Gust of Wind damage does not apply until another skill is used on the same target.
    This one has been fixed with the last changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Enfeeble does not properly account for the bonus provided by the Sign of Power Durations/Ratings legacy. (here)
    Debuffs that tier-down after the first 10s because of Enfeeble can be resisted during this tiering-down.
    - I totaly agree with you it isn't worth at all to skill Enfeeble, because the skills can be resisted twice as much as without Enfeeble being traited. (1st time when the debuff is set, 2nd time when the debuff switches to the original debuff)

    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Pleasant Breeze heal magnitude is much too low considering unreliable proc chance.
    - I recommend to change its requirement. For example let Wind-lore be the required skill to unlock Pleasant Breeze. Every time you use Wind-lore you'll be able to use Pleasant Breeze, but once you use the skill (PB) it is on cooldown for like 20 or 30sec, because why should a yellow line LM hit a critical strike with a damage spell which he don't need to use for any other skill except for PB, that just makes no sence for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Water-Lore has no initial heal anymore (first heal it provides is delayed by 4s).
    - Yeah, this one seems to be a bug, or at least I hope so, because Vastin said that the base heal value of Water-lore has been increased with the changes, but they just removed it

    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Increased base and dot heal values of water-lore, light of hope, beacon of hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Also, if I missed any, let me know. I'll update the list as needed.
    - I don't know if bug is the right word for this, but there is one thing that really pisses me off about the loremaster, some skill, exspecialy summoning pets have got a ridiculous delay
    afterwards. After summoning a pet I'm not able to do anything (except for moving) for 3 or 4 sec. Same for Ancient Craft and Knowlege of the Lore-master.
    Last edited by Ranmazu; Jul 16 2018 at 01:50 PM.

  5. #205

    pert nerf

    has any one seen this,
    my pets aggro range is non existant they can nearly set on top of target and not attack.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranmazu View Post
    - I totaly agree with you it isn't worth at all to skill Enfeeble, because the skills can be resisted twice as much as without Enfeeble being traited. (1st time when the debuff is set, 2nd time when the debuff switches to the original debuff)

    - I recommend to change [Pleasant Breeze]'s requirement. For example let Wind-lore be the required skill to unlock Pleasant Breeze. Every time you use Wind-lore you'll be able to use Pleasant Breeze, but once you use the skill (PB) it is on cooldown for like 20 or 30sec, because why should a yellow line LM hit a critical strike with a damage spell which he don't need to use for any other skill except for PB, that just makes no sence for me.

    - I don't know if bug is the right word for this, but there is one thing that really pisses me off about the loremaster, some skill, exspecialy summoning pets have got a ridiculous delay
    afterwards. After summoning a pet I'm not able to do anything (except for moving) for 3 or 4 sec. Same for Ancient Craft and Knowlege of the Lore-master.
    I wouldn't say Enfeeble isn't worth traiting, given that you have enough finesse. Especially on Ancient Craft, the increased debuff magnitude for the first 10s is invaluable, especially when timed with other debuffs from other classes such as Oathies. For the rest of the skills it augments however, it isn't too useful. I could take it or leave it.

    For the Pleasant Breeze change, I think that's an interesting idea. It would fall more in line with skills an LM would be using while healing, I like it. I would say though if the chance increased by say +20% proc chance per rank in the trait or something like that, it would be nice. I would also like a longer cooldown on it like you mentioned so that way it can be a more potent heal, rather than requiring a nerf. The crit requirement isn't terrible, because do have a crit build, but I would much rather my heals be consistent...

    Eh, the list I posted isn't exclusively for bugs, some things in there are just issues with the class that have been around for a while, and that is one of them. Just tested it now, and it is still an issue. There's a 2-3 second delay after summoning a pet. It's probably similar in nature to the delay yellow champs are experiencing right now with dual wielding.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by oggovog View Post
    has any one seen this,
    my pets aggro range is non existant they can nearly set on top of target and not attack.
    They cut the pet aggro range in half a few updates ago. Probably to make life more difficult for AFK LM farming.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    I wouldn't say Enfeeble isn't worth traiting, given that you have enough finesse. Especially on Ancient Craft, the increased debuff magnitude for the first 10s is invaluable, especially when timed with other debuffs from other classes such as Oathies. For the rest of the skills it augments however, it isn't too useful. I could take it or leave it.
    I agree.
    I'd say enfeeble is must have.
    Loremaster resists are defo bugged though.
    I actually made a 30% finesse build a while ago and i still get ~4% resists on AoM t2. That's mostly firelore/windlore though.
    Signs of power and ancient craft are totally fine with such high finesse , in my tests at least.
    Perhaps for a lower finesse build , enfeeble can be problematic.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    For the Pleasant Breeze change, I think that's an interesting idea. It would fall more in line with skills an LM would be using while healing, I like it. I would say though if the chance increased by say +20% proc chance per rank in the trait or something like that, it would be nice. I would also like a longer cooldown on it like you mentioned so that way it can be a more potent heal, rather than requiring a nerf. The crit requirement isn't terrible, because do have a crit build, but I would much rather my heals be consistent...
    This needs to get changed for sure. Pleasant breeze heal on GoW crit is bad design for support.
    Wind-lore suggestion is good.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Eh, the list I posted isn't exclusively for bugs, some things in there are just issues with the class that have been around for a while, and that is one of them. Just tested it now, and it is still an issue. There's a 2-3 second delay after summoning a pet. It's probably similar in nature to the delay yellow champs are experiencing right now with dual wielding.
    Yes , another annoying issue.
    However , you can still command your pet and apply the debuffs and also dismiss it , both on that 'stuck' period.
    Assuming you can refresh your debuffs and do 2 rotations per minute , then it's not THAT terrible on boss fights..
    1st rotation) 3-4 pets one after the other ( catmint raven , bear , lurker , maybe ball ) ,
    2st rotation) same as above without raven , ~30 seconds after 1st.
    For trash i'd say it doesn't worth rotating pets at all in most cases. Just permanent raven. Even with the cooldown on fire debuff in play , you can reliably apply it on all trash.
    I actually think its better to CC the heck out of them and only use simple stuff such as tar , raven , lore etc

  9. #209
    if you got over 200k Finesse(what is easy to get for yellow Lm) you should trait enfeeble for 100%.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    I wouldn't say Enfeeble isn't worth traiting, given that you have enough finesse. Especially on Ancient Craft, the increased debuff magnitude for the first 10s is invaluable, especially when timed with other debuffs from other classes such as Oathies. For the rest of the skills it augments however, it isn't too useful. I could take it or leave it.

    For the Pleasant Breeze change, I think that's an interesting idea. It would fall more in line with skills an LM would be using while healing, I like it. I would say though if the chance increased by say +20% proc chance per rank in the trait or something like that, it would be nice. I would also like a longer cooldown on it like you mentioned so that way it can be a more potent heal, rather than requiring a nerf. The crit requirement isn't terrible, because do have a crit build, but I would much rather my heals be consistent...

    Eh, the list I posted isn't exclusively for bugs, some things in there are just issues with the class that have been around for a while, and that is one of them. Just tested it now, and it is still an issue. There's a 2-3 second delay after summoning a pet. It's probably similar in nature to the delay yellow champs are experiencing right now with dual wielding.
    ´


    Ok I may took the wrong words. I just think doubling the risc of resisting Ancient Craft is too high for the benefit I get for the first 10 sec, but as you said, it depents on how much finesse you have.

  11. #211
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    Just a note about our pets: on bullroarer update 23 #2 at level 115, my bear has gone from from 327k hp(live) to 124k and lynx from 276 hp(live) to 105k hp ( bull.) Blue line...

    Sry about my english

  12. #212
    Hi Vastin, when you get to Blue line I'm hoping that it is more aligned toward the old flank and spank melee Lore-Masters of SOA, MOM, SOM days

    With that in mind I have a few comments on the current tree and traits;

    Keeper Tree
    -Stamp Out the Fire-
    Needs better explanation what it does. Percentile bonus, flat value? What does this do?

    -Peerless Wisdom-
    Nothing on this itself but I feel you have an opportunity for another trait that could reduce the CD on this ability (which could assist Blue LM's with damage reduction within melee range, make the players choice on using this ability be possibly proactive rather than always reactive)

    -Raven's Protection-
    I don't think its a good idea to have tree traits that only affect one pet, would prefer this be replaced with something more universal such as if the player crit's the pet will auto flank on next attack.

    Keeper Traits
    -Inner Flame-
    Has first a cast animation then a channel animation. Feels clunky with the delay on the affect. Also with Water Lore the affect feels weak and as it only affects the LM and his pet this feels completely underwhelming.
    Suggest a rework such as having Inner Flame consume the LM's Fire DOT's within a small radius, then having an initial Heal followed by the channeled Heal. The power of both determined by the number of DOT's consumed.

    -Don't Touch Him/Loyalty/After-Battle Treat-
    Dislike the trigger for all these, would prefer triggers such as pet flanks and pet or player crit's rather than something completely aligned to landscaping.

    -Don't Interrupt Me-
    This trait could be changed to assist the LM with surviving melee range, but would need to affect all incoming damage and be more reliable to trigger. Could be triggered off cast of Burning Embers with short duration and affecting all incoming damage. (this could already affect all incoming damage but I can't ever get it too trigger to find out)

    -Sick Em-
    I would prefer if this trait was a timed player buff that caused player hits to have a chance to spawn a random animal to attack the target once and disappear then what it is right now. It feels extremely clunky.


    That's all that comes to mind, good luck with all the work your doing I hope you get a chance to look at Blue LM's soon

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by trichard2 View Post
    Just a note about our pets: on bullroarer update 23 #2 at level 115, my bear has gone from from 327k hp(live) to 124k and lynx from 276 hp(live) to 105k hp ( bull.) Blue line...

    Sry about my english
    Sry to quote myself but i m the only one worried about the hp reduction of LM pets in update 23 (#1 and #2)?

    (Again sry about my english)

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by trichard2 View Post
    Sry to quote myself but i m the only one worried about the hp reduction of LM pets in update 23 (#1 and #2)?

    (Again sry about my english)
    I'll speak for myself. Since i never trait for blue, i'm not that worried about the morale pool of pets. Red all the way! (and Yellow/red when needed).

    What i'm really interested in, is opinions of fellow LM's (especially red traited ones) about LM play in 2 beta builds that were introduced so far. I don't have time to play on BR, but i'm really interested in how the changes affect our gameplay.
    How we should prepare for U23, do we have to immediately change our essences (tact mastery, finnese, vit) to something else if we want to play comfortably on landscape until hitting 120 cap?
    If someone could share his/hers opinions about their experiences from beta on BR i would be very grateful

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by trichard2 View Post
    Sry to quote myself but i m the only one worried about the hp reduction of LM pets in update 23 (#1 and #2)?
    No, you are not, I just haven't the Real World time to get onto Bullroarer. But yes, that reduction is worrisome, given how fast a pack of 115 orcs in Talath Urui can chew through my bear or saber-cat and then come swarming after my fragile backside.

    Be sure to post your observations to the actual feedback thread!
    Immigrant from the City of Paragon. We are heroes. This is what we do.

    Founding member of Mornost Gwend of Gladden. "We shout a lot!"

  16. #216
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    the dust has settled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranmazu View Post
    This one has been fixed with the last changes.



    - I totaly agree with you it isn't worth at all to skill Enfeeble, because the skills can be resisted twice as much as without Enfeeble being traited. (1st time when the debuff is set, 2nd time when the debuff switches to the original debuff)



    - I recommend to change its requirement. For example let Wind-lore be the required skill to unlock Pleasant Breeze. Every time you use Wind-lore you'll be able to use Pleasant Breeze, but once you use the skill (PB) it is on cooldown for like 20 or 30sec, because why should a yellow line LM hit a critical strike with a damage spell which he don't need to use for any other skill except for PB, that just makes no sence for me.



    - Yeah, this one seems to be a bug, or at least I hope so, because Vastin said that the base heal value of Water-lore has been increased with the changes, but they just removed it





    - I don't know if bug is the right word for this, but there is one thing that really pisses me off about the loremaster, some skill, exspecialy summoning pets have got a ridiculous delay
    afterwards. After summoning a pet I'm not able to do anything (except for moving) for 3 or 4 sec. Same for Ancient Craft and Knowlege of the Lore-master.

    would a blue name please let us know when the next pass for LM's will be? consider this:

    Overall, IMO the changes could have been much worse, and yet, they are so far from an improvement.
    Holistically, i'm personally not a fan of having to use Gust of Wind now, after 6+ years of it being dormant (off-the-skill-bar sort of dormant)
    I'm really not a fan of what they did to wizard's fire. removing the dot make it worse for leroy jenkins-ing trash while slayer deeding (although the pet is great for slayer deeding, at least until u23 pet nerfs)
    While it's true that they moved the Wizards fire's DoT effect as well as the upgrading burning embers to gust of wind, gust of wind is an induction skill, and wizard's fire isn't. Perhaps they will add a new effect to wizard's fire a future update.


    The power nerfs are actually fine, so long as you have the power restore legacy. it's much better on live than it was in Beta. Good work!


    I absolutely HATE that the initial Heal and initial damage from all our DoT or HoT skills were removed. especially water-lore, and it's 5% nerf sucks also.


    As many others have said, Gust of wind is actually interesting now because when it crits, i has a chance to apply a decent heal in yellow. Sadly even though the heal is sizable, having it be conditional upon criting with gust of wind is too constraining. if it was guaranteed whenever you used gust of wind (with the 10 second cooldown), that would be ok.
    Or if it was crit dependent that would be fine, but then remove the cooldown of pleasant breeze and make it 2x/3x bigger heal.


    As far as red-line is concerned, I'll save that for another day, but if other red-line players are happy - im happy too.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniyel View Post
    As many others have said, Gust of wind is actually interesting now because when it crits, i has a chance to apply a decent heal in yellow. Sadly even though the heal is sizable, having it be conditional upon criting with gust of wind is too constraining. if it was guaranteed whenever you used gust of wind (with the 10 second cooldown), that would be ok.
    Or if it was crit dependent that would be fine, but then remove the cooldown of pleasant breeze and make it 2x/3x bigger heal.
    Just wanted to chip in that both proposed alternatives for Pleasant Breeze (highlighted in bold font above) are very fair and worth considering.
    "Leaving the game plan is a sign of panic, and panic is not in our game plan." - Chuck Noll

  18. #218
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    Pets - blue in 3#

    Bear : Live= 327k hp Bullroarer #3: 134k hp ( reduction of 244%)

    Lynx : Live = 276K hp Bullroarer #3: 122k hp ( reduction of 227%)

    As i ve asked before, is WAI ?


    ps. Sry about my english

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by trichard2 View Post
    Bear : Live= 327k hp Bullroarer #3: 134k hp ( reduction of 244%)

    Lynx : Live = 276K hp Bullroarer #3: 122k hp ( reduction of 227%)

    As i ve asked before, is WAI ?
    yes, it is stated in beta notes.
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik
    Eglish isn't my native language, sorry for mistakes

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by trichard2 View Post
    Bear : Live= 327k hp Bullroarer #3: 134k hp ( reduction of 244%)
    How the heck did you get a bear up to 327k morale? I'm blue line (heavily invested), lvl 115, doomfold stickpin of durability (or whatever it is called), and can only hit 293k.
    Immigrant from the City of Paragon. We are heroes. This is what we do.

    Founding member of Mornost Gwend of Gladden. "We shout a lot!"

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seschat View Post
    How the heck did you get a bear up to 327k morale? I'm blue line (heavily invested), lvl 115, doomfold stickpin of durability (or whatever it is called), and can only hit 293k.
    Do you have : Pet morale (+14.6%-lvl69) in book ?
    Also: Noble savage (+10%) and feral ( +5% max morale -bear) ?
    Curiously, i ve removed my superior black adamant stickpin of regrowth, recast my bear and he went down to 297k! Dismissed, re-equip, recast and oups... 327k again :P


    Ps. Sry about my english)

  22. #222
    Blue cap stone set bonus Tutelage of the Brown Wizard do not increase pet level by 3, pet is still only level 120.
    Laurelin: Kinship - Outcasts
    Ilwee - Warden, Krindel - Minstrel, Krinborn - Lore-Master, Gislin - Burglar

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by trichard2 View Post
    Do you have : Pet morale (+14.6%-lvl69) in book ?
    That would be it. I built the book entirely red line back before I even got to Minas Tirith. Then again, anything that can chew through a 293k bear faster than I can handle won't be slowed down by the other 50k morale.
    Immigrant from the City of Paragon. We are heroes. This is what we do.

    Founding member of Mornost Gwend of Gladden. "We shout a lot!"

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krindel View Post
    Blue cap stone set bonus Tutelage of the Brown Wizard do not increase pet level by 3, pet is still only level 120.
    Not work in bull #4. pet is lvl 120. But it works at 115 ( pet=118). I dunno for 116-119.

 

 
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