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  1. #201

    Sigh

    I am so sad and disappointed. About most of the adjustments, which are making the class pain to play and only weaken. Instead of promised tweaks for better.

    The class has lost much more than gained with this update. And instead of fixing issues which have long been accumulating since Helm's Deep. There are only more added to the list.

    For 10 years, LM is my main. And the only class I play. Alas, no more.

    Goodbyes lotro, It's been a great time.

  2. #202
    Is there any word on when the next round of changes will be announced? I'd hate to think they are leaving the current classes where they stand now, with so many issues unaddressed. Some improvements were made, but there are many long-standing bugs that have existed since the inception of trait trees that were completely overlooked, as well as new ones that were introduced for most every class... Not to mention blue-line really didn't see any meaningful changes whatsoever.

    A list of long-standing bugs/issues that were not addressed:

    • Staff-Sweep damage is delayed about 2 seconds from the skill animation.
    • Burning Embers spread using Gust of Wind while spec'd red are not able to be upgraded to Searing Embers.
    • Searing Embers created from Burning Embers only stack with Burning Embers created from Improved Sticky Gourd; Searing Embers created from Sticky Gourd do not stack with Burning Embers created from Improved Burning Embers. (If a target has 3 Burning Embers applied from Improved Sticky Gourd, casting the skill Burning Embers will overwrite these currently active DoT's, while Burning Embers from Improved Sticky Gourd will always stack alongside Burning Embers from the skill.)
    • Searing Embers only stacks up to three times. (I know this is by design, but now with a cooldown again on our Searing Embers upgrade, Gust of Wind, I don't think this artificial limit is necessary.)
    • Lightning Cashout damage always prioritizes Searing Embers over Burning Embers.
    • Stun immunity (Sign of Power: Righteousness) does not apply when used on a target that is rooted during the application, yet still goes on cooldown.
    • All Target Resistance legacies (Fire/Damaging/Debuffing Skills) do not do anything/increases enemy resistance depending on who tested it.
    • Enfeeble does not properly account for the bonus provided by the Sign of Power Durations/Ratings legacy. (here)
    • Debuffs that tier-down after the first 10s because of Enfeeble can be resisted during this tiering-down.
    • Pet cooldown clockfaces do not always accurately reflect the cooldown time remaining on skills. (Also true for captain and spider pets.)
    • The blue trait Loyalty will go on cooldown without a pet being summoned (should not work if no pet is out).
    • The skill Shatter Arms for the bear pet tests against resistance when it should test against physical avoidance.
    • Fire/Frost-lore skills have a higher resistance than all other debuffs (excluding secondary debuffs). (here)
    • Loremasters require a ridiculous amount of finesse to be reliable in t2 instances (see above link).
    • Loremaster secondary debuffs (Turn Up the Heat, Warm Up, Deep Freeze, Cool Off, and lightning debuffs) are resisted at a much higher rate than anything else on any class.
    • After traiting Wild Fire/Chill Wind (yellow), Fire/Frost Lore will not refresh when cast on a target already debuffed by these skills. Only Wind Lore will refresh them.
    • Burning Embers DoT effects created by Improved Sticky Gourd do not show up when the Effect Display Options for Selection is checked (don't count as effects "cast by you").
    • Wisdom of the Council suffers from the immediate skill bug. (sometimes goes on cooldown when double-clicked without casting its effect.)
    • Pleasant Breeze trait still says it increases % power restored in description.
    • Pleasant Breeze heal magnitude is much too low considering unreliable proc chance.
    • Water-Lore has no initial heal anymore (first heal it provides is delayed by 4s).
    • Fourth tier of Ring of Fire trait still gives the increased radius despite no longer saying so in the trait description.
    • Inner Flame heal magnitude is negligable at level cap, especially for pets with upwards of 300k morale.
    • Eagle's Sacrifice (eagle rez) only works when it is actively attacking something, not when on passive.
    • Catmint doesn't increase pet skill damage despite saying it does.
    • Staff-skill/autoattack damage hasn't scaled since level 100.
    • Staff sweep doesn't restore power anymore when used on a flanked target.
    • Stamp out the Fire (blue, tier 1 sidebar) does nothing.
    • After summoning any combat pet, there is a brief skill delay where you can't use any skills.
    • The tier 3 blue trait Prepare for War has not scaled to account for Mordor stat inflation.


    Some of these may have since been stealth-fixed as I haven't tested many in at least a year, so if anything is outdated please call me out on it. Also, if I missed any, let me know. I'll update the list as needed.
    Last edited by ColMcStacky; Jul 16 2018 at 04:24 PM.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod View Post
    Here i would like to see some merging/consolidation in the future. Like: "Base Damage of Nature's Furry Skills" and also some more Skill/Trait-Tree clarification in that case: like Ring of Fire is only available in the Master of Nature's Fury-Tree but doesn't count as a Nature's Furry Skill (i have no idea why this skill is a "lost lore") and then some legacies, which are useful for the other Trees.
    But back to EgtW and NF: i did yesterday just for fun an Abyss T1 run as DD LM. And it was really fun. In such situations, a well-played and well-equipped LM does not have to be ashamed compared to a champion. For single-target damage: at Fingar my damage was up to 35K (ok, it was T1, but in my group we didn't have a Cappy.) I use different Book+Staff for Single and for AoE damage.
    You also right with that, that the legacy for EgtW is not worth to slot it. Albeit i still use EgtW often for the 6s stun (if i have more that three targets).
    I was always under the impression the Nature's Fury legacy only affected the capstone redline skill and not all Nature's Fury skills? NB might be a risk of getting what you wish for here, it isn't entirely a disadvantage that LMs really only ever need 1 staff and not multiple weapons and LI grind like other classes.

  4. #204
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Somewhere in Middle-earth
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    673
    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Lightning Cashout damage always prioritizes Searing Embers over Burning Embers.
    this might not be bug. I thing the damage out of the cash out is a bug. If the damage would be twice as cash out from burning embers, it would be ok (for me).

    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post

    Some of these may have since been stealth-fixed as I haven't tested many in at least a year, so if anything is outdated please call me out on it. Also, if I missed any, let me know. I'll update the list as needed.
    Staff sweep doesn´t regenerate power if used on the flanked target.
    Stamp out the Fire (blue line 1st bonus) does nothing.
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik
    Eglish isn't my native language, sorry for mistakes

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Gust of Wind damage does not apply until another skill is used on the same target.
    This one has been fixed with the last changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Enfeeble does not properly account for the bonus provided by the Sign of Power Durations/Ratings legacy. (here)
    Debuffs that tier-down after the first 10s because of Enfeeble can be resisted during this tiering-down.
    - I totaly agree with you it isn't worth at all to skill Enfeeble, because the skills can be resisted twice as much as without Enfeeble being traited. (1st time when the debuff is set, 2nd time when the debuff switches to the original debuff)

    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Pleasant Breeze heal magnitude is much too low considering unreliable proc chance.
    - I recommend to change its requirement. For example let Wind-lore be the required skill to unlock Pleasant Breeze. Every time you use Wind-lore you'll be able to use Pleasant Breeze, but once you use the skill (PB) it is on cooldown for like 20 or 30sec, because why should a yellow line LM hit a critical strike with a damage spell which he don't need to use for any other skill except for PB, that just makes no sence for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Water-Lore has no initial heal anymore (first heal it provides is delayed by 4s).
    - Yeah, this one seems to be a bug, or at least I hope so, because Vastin said that the base heal value of Water-lore has been increased with the changes, but they just removed it

    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Increased base and dot heal values of water-lore, light of hope, beacon of hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Also, if I missed any, let me know. I'll update the list as needed.
    - I don't know if bug is the right word for this, but there is one thing that really pisses me off about the loremaster, some skill, exspecialy summoning pets have got a ridiculous delay
    afterwards. After summoning a pet I'm not able to do anything (except for moving) for 3 or 4 sec. Same for Ancient Craft and Knowlege of the Lore-master.
    Last edited by Ranmazu; Jul 16 2018 at 12:50 PM.

  6. #206

    pert nerf

    has any one seen this,
    my pets aggro range is non existant they can nearly set on top of target and not attack.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranmazu View Post
    - I totaly agree with you it isn't worth at all to skill Enfeeble, because the skills can be resisted twice as much as without Enfeeble being traited. (1st time when the debuff is set, 2nd time when the debuff switches to the original debuff)

    - I recommend to change [Pleasant Breeze]'s requirement. For example let Wind-lore be the required skill to unlock Pleasant Breeze. Every time you use Wind-lore you'll be able to use Pleasant Breeze, but once you use the skill (PB) it is on cooldown for like 20 or 30sec, because why should a yellow line LM hit a critical strike with a damage spell which he don't need to use for any other skill except for PB, that just makes no sence for me.

    - I don't know if bug is the right word for this, but there is one thing that really pisses me off about the loremaster, some skill, exspecialy summoning pets have got a ridiculous delay
    afterwards. After summoning a pet I'm not able to do anything (except for moving) for 3 or 4 sec. Same for Ancient Craft and Knowlege of the Lore-master.
    I wouldn't say Enfeeble isn't worth traiting, given that you have enough finesse. Especially on Ancient Craft, the increased debuff magnitude for the first 10s is invaluable, especially when timed with other debuffs from other classes such as Oathies. For the rest of the skills it augments however, it isn't too useful. I could take it or leave it.

    For the Pleasant Breeze change, I think that's an interesting idea. It would fall more in line with skills an LM would be using while healing, I like it. I would say though if the chance increased by say +20% proc chance per rank in the trait or something like that, it would be nice. I would also like a longer cooldown on it like you mentioned so that way it can be a more potent heal, rather than requiring a nerf. The crit requirement isn't terrible, because do have a crit build, but I would much rather my heals be consistent...

    Eh, the list I posted isn't exclusively for bugs, some things in there are just issues with the class that have been around for a while, and that is one of them. Just tested it now, and it is still an issue. There's a 2-3 second delay after summoning a pet. It's probably similar in nature to the delay yellow champs are experiencing right now with dual wielding.

  8. #208
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,044
    Quote Originally Posted by oggovog View Post
    has any one seen this,
    my pets aggro range is non existant they can nearly set on top of target and not attack.
    They cut the pet aggro range in half a few updates ago. Probably to make life more difficult for AFK LM farming.

  9. #209
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Under Bridge
    Posts
    966
    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    I wouldn't say Enfeeble isn't worth traiting, given that you have enough finesse. Especially on Ancient Craft, the increased debuff magnitude for the first 10s is invaluable, especially when timed with other debuffs from other classes such as Oathies. For the rest of the skills it augments however, it isn't too useful. I could take it or leave it.
    I agree.
    I'd say enfeeble is must have.
    Loremaster resists are defo bugged though.
    I actually made a 30% finesse build a while ago and i still get ~4% resists on AoM t2. That's mostly firelore/windlore though.
    Signs of power and ancient craft are totally fine with such high finesse , in my tests at least.
    Perhaps for a lower finesse build , enfeeble can be problematic.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    For the Pleasant Breeze change, I think that's an interesting idea. It would fall more in line with skills an LM would be using while healing, I like it. I would say though if the chance increased by say +20% proc chance per rank in the trait or something like that, it would be nice. I would also like a longer cooldown on it like you mentioned so that way it can be a more potent heal, rather than requiring a nerf. The crit requirement isn't terrible, because do have a crit build, but I would much rather my heals be consistent...
    This needs to get changed for sure. Pleasant breeze heal on GoW crit is bad design for support.
    Wind-lore suggestion is good.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    Eh, the list I posted isn't exclusively for bugs, some things in there are just issues with the class that have been around for a while, and that is one of them. Just tested it now, and it is still an issue. There's a 2-3 second delay after summoning a pet. It's probably similar in nature to the delay yellow champs are experiencing right now with dual wielding.
    Yes , another annoying issue.
    However , you can still command your pet and apply the debuffs and also dismiss it , both on that 'stuck' period.
    Assuming you can refresh your debuffs and do 2 rotations per minute , then it's not THAT terrible on boss fights..
    1st rotation) 3-4 pets one after the other ( catmint raven , bear , lurker , maybe ball ) ,
    2st rotation) same as above without raven , ~30 seconds after 1st.
    For trash i'd say it doesn't worth rotating pets at all in most cases. Just permanent raven. Even with the cooldown on fire debuff in play , you can reliably apply it on all trash.
    I actually think its better to CC the heck out of them and only use simple stuff such as tar , raven , lore etc

  10. #210
    if you got over 200k Finesse(what is easy to get for yellow Lm) you should trait enfeeble for 100%.
    Drizzels
    EN Evernight Odyssey Officer and Raid Leader
    Original Challenger of the Abyss
    NA Gladden:Ramble on of Elendilmir

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by ColMcStacky View Post
    I wouldn't say Enfeeble isn't worth traiting, given that you have enough finesse. Especially on Ancient Craft, the increased debuff magnitude for the first 10s is invaluable, especially when timed with other debuffs from other classes such as Oathies. For the rest of the skills it augments however, it isn't too useful. I could take it or leave it.

    For the Pleasant Breeze change, I think that's an interesting idea. It would fall more in line with skills an LM would be using while healing, I like it. I would say though if the chance increased by say +20% proc chance per rank in the trait or something like that, it would be nice. I would also like a longer cooldown on it like you mentioned so that way it can be a more potent heal, rather than requiring a nerf. The crit requirement isn't terrible, because do have a crit build, but I would much rather my heals be consistent...

    Eh, the list I posted isn't exclusively for bugs, some things in there are just issues with the class that have been around for a while, and that is one of them. Just tested it now, and it is still an issue. There's a 2-3 second delay after summoning a pet. It's probably similar in nature to the delay yellow champs are experiencing right now with dual wielding.
    ´


    Ok I may took the wrong words. I just think doubling the risc of resisting Ancient Craft is too high for the benefit I get for the first 10 sec, but as you said, it depents on how much finesse you have.

 

 
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