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  1. #1
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    Catching up -Trouble with Mordor content

    I hit 105 on both Minstrel and Warden before the Mordor release /Level-Cap increase to 115., so I know what those characters could do with good gear and traits prior to the Mordor Expansion.

    My wife and I had an infant to care for, so not enough time to play until recently. I read up a bit and realized I had to ditch my old gear for LoE gear to function in Mordor. Trading Ash or making do with quest rewards has kept my Light level greater than or equal to Shadow.

    My problem is I am being overpowered by 2 basic or 1 signature mob... So I leveled...and kept dying...re-equip...still dying......now at level cap 115...and I am STILL dying if I engage more than one level 111 mobs in landscap single signatures are a challenge too. I am confused as I could destroy 2 equal level signatures at the 105 level-cap....

    With no big trait revamp since 105, I am 4 levels higher than the mobs I am fighting, Light greater than or equal to Shadow, gear/essence is either quest rewards or Gorgoroth Ash gear better than my region/epic quest rewards. I have tried browsing threads and found them not very helpful ex: ( https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...5-disappointed )

    Is it my gear? I'm running 11X purple equipment + regular essence not 105 blue equipment +itilian essence. I use to run my mini yellow line and did fine, but not doing much damage at allto much lower level mobs so I switched to red line and still takes me half a dozen calls/crys to kill one orc.....

  2. #2
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    Raise your finesse. Finesse was not needed for landscape prior to Mordor. However, the mobs received massive buffs to mits, damage, resistance, etc thus finesse is now a must for any build and it looks like this will continue. Use the Mordor essences, even if they are green you can barter for better armour and Mordor essences with ash.
    Last edited by Gandolf_TheOld; May 07 2018 at 06:45 PM.
    Ujest - 115 Lore-master, Opun Tia - 90 Warden, Veneur - 75 Hunter, Cneasai - 61 Minstrel, plus alts and mules
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  3. #3
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    This is really surprising when it comes to minstrel. He's actually a great class to quest in Mordor with.

    While i realise your gear is nothing great , possibly bad , since a dozen cries per orc sounds like a lot for a level capped char , i'd advise you change your gameplay.
    Don't let enemies hit you , use piercing cry stun and anthem of wizards slow and kite.
    Use minor ballad when everything else is on cd.That resets your piercing cry , more stuns.Also lowers skills cooldown and gives you offensive buffs.
    Try to keep your targets debuffed with call of orome.
    You can also throw a chord of salvation every now and then for some heals.
    Trait red and into yellow. https://lotrottp.lotrostatus.com/l.php?c=8GP
    If you fight more than 1 mob , use your fear too , it helps.
    If all the above are too hard for you then what can i say , try to cap your mitigations on 40% and hope for the best.

    Do dailies , get gear , crit , tactical mastery etc , you don't need more than 35-40k finesse on red minstrel.
    Last edited by BotLike; May 07 2018 at 06:47 PM.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the info on mob mitigation and defense buffs Gandalf_TheOld.

    Botlike, I'm not new to minstrel. I used a skill rotation very similar to what you suggested for years. Mobs seem more durable and my mini is a glass cannon. If it gets to me I do not last long. Mobs are more densely packed too so sometimes I cannot use AoE damage or more mobs will be dragged in.

    Since both of you mentioned Finesse I have some Essence to grab, thanks!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoilFodder View Post
    Thanks for the info on mob mitigation and defense buffs Gandalf_TheOld.

    Botlike, I'm not new to minstrel. I used a skill rotation very similar to what you suggested for years. Mobs seem more durable and my mini is a glass cannon. If it gets to me I do not last long. Mobs are more densely packed too so sometimes I cannot use AoE damage or more mobs will be dragged in.

    Since both of you mentioned Finesse I have some Essence to grab, thanks!
    One (in hindsight) simple thing I'd run into on my Guardian - I had fallen behind on the grind for Star-Lit crystals. The first dozen or so only raise the DPS of your legendary item a small amount, so i played down their importance. But whereas diminishing returns is the rule with other things, it's the opposite here and the last few tiers make big gains, such that i realised I was running around with a weapon half the DPS rating other 115s were using.

    Kill times had gotten ridiculous, which on a sword and shield guardian doesn't mean I'm going to run out of HP first, but that my gear is going to break before i fight my way to the quest objective. Some solo quests were taking longer than raids, and i was having such a miserable time it was getting tough to log on the character and play at all.

    It is possible that tactical classes haven't scaled as well as Hunters, but i still think it should take less than a dozen cries in Red to kill stuff. I did follow a Hunter into mirkwood. He only had purple items except for the bow, which was maxed, and was killing stuff in 2 or 3 shots , except for when his lack of finesse caused the mob to avoid the attack.
    Elf females - Nemulias (grd) Arenor (min - retired)
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  6. #6
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    Do you have a heal and a dps set of LIs?

    Heal LI should have legacies for Feign Death CD and Distraction CD. Maxed; 30 sec on FD, 1m15s Distract. Swap in to limit numbers.

    Move. I see so many players carry on going toe to toe like they've always done and failing, giving up.

    Max LIs, invest.

    Don't start a fight without Anthem of War up, read the tooltip to know which skills Debuffs/Buffs and get them in early.

    Key later will be spawns with too many linked mobs to deal with at once. Fear one, FD (acts on the non feared mobs only) and hit the feared mob before fear elapses and kill.
    Whittle down 'til comfortable you can handle the rest. Plan your attack and create space to move into by clearing odd mobs in the vicinity. I put a few traits in blue to help heals a bit during and after a fight.

    But mostly get a wastes jewel and slap 3 finesse in it.

    Mac

    EDIT: I felt motivated to make a video showing how you can have complete control of a mob spawn:
    https://youtu.be/veF8mASTp_4
    Last edited by Macdui; May 08 2018 at 11:31 AM.
    See my Lotro gaming videos:
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  7. #7
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    I saw this, this morning and wish to add some perspective?

    I play a Lore-master and he aint no Warrior in Mordor. Without getting class specific I can maybe show what I have done.

    I find Mordor difficult and I love it. It reminds me of northern Angmar back when level 50 was cap.

    I am only 112 and not in a hurry, but you hit 115, wow, and I can kind of relate to your challenges. It has been lots of selective encounters, trying to avoid big groups of mobs.
    I don't do dailies. But I did join an Alliance when the message appeared, found nothing of use and kept playing landscape. I have done nearly every single Udun quest, lots of the Black Book quests and some in dor Amarth. Some quests rewards gave Light of Earendil so I swapped to those pieces. I have alts that craft and spent some money browsing the Auctions for Finesse Essences.

    Everything turned a corner when I finally found all the Lost Pages Of Lore in Udun and got some 4000 Alliance points. The vendors at the Allegience hall have lower level items for 112 with slots open to add Finesses or whatever essence you like.

    I now have 164 LOE and 44, 789 Finesse. It is way better.

    I don't rely much on uber LI configuration, my level 100 1st age staff has 259.2 DPS and I see 3rd ages with only slightly less DPS. I used some crystals, scrolls, etc., but to be honest I stopped grinding LIs a long time ago because it is insane, Maybe I could do better, but it is what it is,

    In Durthang, Udun for example, the mobs are 5 levels below me and I die fairly often when I get too pushy. But now, after trading out more pieces they are easier.

    Something to keep in mind is "pathing" I think it is called? Mobs are close together and look impossible to confront, but if you draw imaginary lines between mobs and attack, there is alot of forgiveness between groups. Don't assume every mob near by will attack. The design seems easier that way, than in Angmar when everybody in the area attacked because you hit one mob. It is more foregiving that way. That sounds condescending maybe, but I thought playing in spurts and spouts when you have a free hour might have assumed differently.

    So I just wanted to show an example of non-daily, non-raid configuration so you can compare.

    Cheers!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidster View Post
    I saw this, this morning and wish to add some perspective?

    I play a Lore-master and he aint no Warrior in Mordor. Without getting class specific I can maybe show what I have done.

    I find Mordor difficult and I love it. It reminds me of northern Angmar back when level 50 was cap.

    I am only 112 and not in a hurry, but you hit 115, wow, and I can kind of relate to your challenges. It has been lots of selective encounters, trying to avoid big groups of mobs.
    I don't do dailies. But I did join an Alliance when the message appeared, found nothing of use and kept playing landscape. I have done nearly every single Udun quest, lots of the Black Book quests and some in dor Amarth. Some quests rewards gave Light of Earendil so I swapped to those pieces. I have alts that craft and spent some money browsing the Auctions for Finesse Essences.

    Everything turned a corner when I finally found all the Lost Pages Of Lore in Udun and got some 4000 Alliance points. The vendors at the Allegience hall have lower level items for 112 with slots open to add Finesses or whatever essence you like.

    I now have 164 LOE and 44, 789 Finesse. It is way better.

    I don't rely much on uber LI configuration, my level 100 1st age staff has 259.2 DPS and I see 3rd ages with only slightly less DPS. I used some crystals, scrolls, etc., but to be honest I stopped grinding LIs a long time ago because it is insane, Maybe I could do better, but it is what it is,

    In Durthang, Udun for example, the mobs are 5 levels below me and I die fairly often when I get too pushy. But now, after trading out more pieces they are easier.

    Something to keep in mind is "pathing" I think it is called? Mobs are close together and look impossible to confront, but if you draw imaginary lines between mobs and attack, there is alot of forgiveness between groups. Don't assume every mob near by will attack. The design seems easier that way, than in Angmar when everybody in the area attacked because you hit one mob. It is more foregiving that way. That sounds condescending maybe, but I thought playing in spurts and spouts when you have a free hour might have assumed differently.

    So I just wanted to show an example of non-daily, non-raid configuration so you can compare.

    Cheers!

    Thanks for sharing Schmidster. As the first two replies mentioned Finesse and I was running plenty Crit and TacMas but no Finesse boosts at all. I re-equiped / re-slotted up to 30,000 Finesse which meant about 9% off enemy mitigations and defenses and it made a big difference even though it does not sound significant. Incidently, at level 105 it took less than 5,000 Finesse for the same result.

    Durthang was challenging my first time in at ~108, but by the time I hit 110 I was chewing through the mobs even with ~0 Finesse. Maybe Minstrel light damage type is stronger against those mobs mitigations than LM fire damage?

    Also, Mini's tactical damage matters more on the legacies on the equiped LI than on the actual DPS of the LI. Not sure if LM staff LI works the same or not, my LM is only 46th lvl.
    Last edited by FoilFodder; May 09 2018 at 09:32 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by FoilFodder View Post
    Thanks for sharing Schmidster. As the first two replies mentioned Finesse and I was running plenty Crit and TacMas but no Finesse boosts at all. I re-equiped / re-slotted up to 30,000 Finesse which meant about 9% off enemy mitigations and defenses and it made a big difference even though it does not sound significant. Incidently, at level 105 it took less than 5,000 Finesse for the same result.

    Durthang was challenging my first time in at ~108, but by the time I hit 110 I was chewing through the mobs even with ~0 Finesse. Maybe Minstrel light damage type is stronger against those mobs mitigations than LM fire damage?

    Also, Mini's tactical damage matters more on the legacies on the equiped LI than on the actual DPS of the LI. Not sure if LM staff LI works the same or not, my LM is only 46th lvl.
    As Schmidster mentioned, there is a NEW STAT in Mordor, Light of Earendil. The stat is on gear (armour and jewellery). As you go deeper into Mordor, there will be a landscape debuff on you which gets stronger as you get further into Mordor. Light of Earendil counters that debuff. You will get some gear with this stat as quest rewards and you can barter for more gear with this stat from NPC's at the quest camps/hubs in Mordor. There are a few 115 craftable pieces of gear with this stat as well, but you with get LoE mostly from quest reward and bartered gear. When the debuff is active, there will be an indicator for it under your morale/power bars which will show if you currently have enough LoE or not for that area. Not having enough LoE might be why your are having some problems in Mordor.

    There are also four new reputation factions in Mordor which also provide some bartering for LoE gear, the Allegiance Halls. https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Allegiance_System
    Therina - Hobbit Guard Rongo - Hobbit Warden
    Frood - Man Minstrel Garmun - Man Captain
    Zorosi - Dwarf Champ Froodaroon - Elf Hunter
    Southern Defenders - Arkenstone (formerly Elendilmir)

  10. #10
    I will say, I felt like I had to truly LEARN my class while in Mordor. Before, it was pretty much whatever, whatever. I hit mobs, they died. Sometimes I had to hit them twice, (lol) but no biggie. Mordor is a whole other animal. As an LM, I hadn't needed to use stun skills before; I got VERY proficient with them in Mordor. What I'm saying is, if you're new back, don't be discouraged. Ramp up your finesse, and if you have any, a few Mathom armors opened at lvl 106 can be a big help until you get some Mordor/LoE quest gear. I love the new challenge of the game and it seems to be continuing on into the new update area of N Mirkwood (in fact, I found parts of N Mirk harder than Mordor despite the fact it's the same end lvl). Glad to have you back in the game!!

  11. #11
    I'm sorry to say, but what I experience is that there's no place for casual players in mordor. I was trying to do some quests with my minstrel and I have to die like 10 times to reach halfway. I don't have too much time to play, so I can't lvl up my char too quickly. But at this rate, I won't be able to anyway. I was trying some of you guys advice, like keep distance with enemies, slow them down, etc. But the problme is that they attack in groups, so even if I stun 1 of them, the other 3 eat me alive, especially when they hit 2-5k and I really like if there are maybe 1or 2 crits, the rest is like 1k, if I'm lucky.
    Why do I have to be max lvled and fully geared to be able to do a lvl 110 quest? Why can't I complete it as a lvl 112? I ask this politely as a casual gamer who currently cannot recruit a complete kinship to do a simple solo quest. And don't have financial background to pay for repairs after a 100 deaths because of the orcs of this solo quest...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eadirin View Post
    I'm sorry to say, but what I experience is that there's no place for casual players in mordor. I was trying to do some quests with my minstrel and I have to die like 10 times to reach halfway. I don't have too much time to play, so I can't lvl up my char too quickly. But at this rate, I won't be able to anyway. I was trying some of you guys advice, like keep distance with enemies, slow them down, etc. But the problme is that they attack in groups, so even if I stun 1 of them, the other 3 eat me alive, especially when they hit 2-5k and I really like if there are maybe 1or 2 crits, the rest is like 1k, if I'm lucky.
    Why do I have to be max lvled and fully geared to be able to do a lvl 110 quest? Why can't I complete it as a lvl 112? I ask this politely as a casual gamer who currently cannot recruit a complete kinship to do a simple solo quest. And don't have financial background to pay for repairs after a 100 deaths because of the orcs of this solo quest...
    Two Skills will greatly improve your survivability: 1) Song of Distraction 2) Still As Death

    First, when you are up against a group, use Song of Distraction, this is a form of mob control that reduces aggro distance.
    Second pull 1 mob only. If a mob RESISTed Song of Distraction, pull it first. Remember to use single target attacks ONLY (Ballads and Piercing Cry) or you will aggro the whole group anyway.
    Third if you pull to much use Still as Death, which gives you a do-over by dropping mob aggro. They leave you, go back to start (and heal up), but you don't die.

  13. #13
    Hello Fellow Mistrels,

    i join the Band some Weeks before.

    I have played my Captain in the Mordor Beta and later on the Lifeserver too.
    Only a bit, than i feel that i still do not like Mordor, even as become easier as on the Beta server.
    I do not call me a Casual player, for that i play to much and i was too active in the Raiding action from 65-105.

    I had no true Problems on the Lifeserver with my Captain, even i am known for my low Moralbuild (around 36k).
    I play in Red with blue Line Support.
    Healmark and Damage.
    I heard often about, that Captains cant to Damage, but my Captain did not hear/know it :-)

    I take a break, played a 3rd Captain in Moria and a 2nd Warden true Moria and there was also a Minstrel.

    I want to play with my friends again, they are bound to Dailies, Raid, Instances at Level Cap and so on. We did Skirmishes, as we did after Raids in the past, but that was not the same. I helped in Thron Raid, and after that my Captain was 106...

    As i dislike to put my equiment to trash, i chose to pick an other Class. I chose the Minstrel, as i like to play him the 60 Level before.
    I picked an new one. Chose a Highelf for the new Animations :-)
    [have a look on dance3, but only if no one else see it]

    The Healing is other as on 60, because Bolster Courage is so strong, that you fokus on that. My mates said that is a long time so. We check that on 60. there is BC not so strong, it is more unimportant.

    I go for Red, as i have to do quests and READ MY SKILLS.
    I think that is the force, that let me bring the enemies down, much more faster as my maxed Captain.

    I play very offensive, for a Minstrel often to much. The Shield, i CARRY fend me often - it fits my Outfit great, but i still do not know who that belongs.
    I had not maxed LI, because with a new Char i have not 2.000.000 Scrolls in the bank.
    A Friend lent me 50 Scrolls, but that around 3,5 per attribut.....
    On the Book i pick Lightdamage for max first, because all Cries are Lighttyp damage.
    On the Sword i pick Piercing Cry first, Orome 2nd, Ballad 3rd (imo).

    As i had the Valar box Items, i had no choice of Fokus on Equipemt. I would go for more Crit oc, because the 2nd ballad will reset PC on Crit.
    I start with Call of Orome -> PC -> 2nd B -> if reset a 2nd PC, then what is in the damage Line left and not on CD :-) *

    So i start.
    That works fine.

    Yesterday i heal in the AVM T1 Raid.
    Level 115, 150 Light, 60k Moral...
    Get some hard hits, and learnt that i should not spay hots before the fight starts. Enemies do not like Minstrels that do that :-)
    Think i had a good learn curve yesterday.


    OK, i had good Minstrels around me, i asked how to heal on 60, because as i quests i do only damage.
    They explain it to me, and we discuss around that and test some skills and found out, that BC is not the same on 60 as on 100/105.

    Now i am 115 and i asked again my fellow Minstrels, and they give me Tips again.
    I had still the most, but some nice tricks are picked up.


    Damage and survival 2 *
    With CoC you can play the Athem of War that will give you more Mastery (if on the Book) else "only +5%" more damage. On Hard fights start with that.
    Then as written: Call of Orome -> PC -> 2nd B -> if reset a 2nd PC -> Cry of the Valar -> Call to Fate -> Cry of the Wiz (if the enemy is near).

    Focus on stunning you enemies, if they come free, they a moment immunity to the PC Stun.

    I found some Problems in Mordor:
    - Cry of the Wiz is nearly a melee skill and my Shield let me believe that i can do some more melee jobs as i should. The CotW high damage range support that. NO good idea !!! but i cant still resist.
    - The Enforce with the Stun are my Nemesis. You cant even play dead, while in stun and the ways from the stonering are often long. (but you can use it to return to camp)
    - Inside the buildings, have a look around what is left and what is right. That kills me too. In additon sometimes an Enforcer comes from the back too.
    - There are some elite enemies eg a troll in the first area (Udum), we (Cap+Minstrel) need 3 tries to bring him down.

    Use the Great benefit we have - we can cast all Damageskills while moving around, but do not kite your Tank, Champion or Captain around, we are no Hunter.


    That are my Tips, Tips from a starting Minstrel, one that has not all Classpoints, not the best Items, not the experience of 8+ Years Minstrel Raiding, not a Rank in the Moors, but the Will to learn the Class and maybe to Master it.

    Maybe that is not the best Rotation, but it works. Bring me more Information how to do it better, i will pick them up.


    TLTR
    Read first your skills, think about them, how they work. That is more important as to read my tips.



    Quote Originally Posted by FoilFodder View Post
    Two Skills will greatly improve your survivability: 1) Song of Distraction 2) Still As Death
    Sorry, but that reads for me, that the enemies will die on age.
    i use the fear, if something comes in the fight, that i had not invited and is not welcomed (and i see it first)
    Still As Death does not work while stunned, else i create more damage as i take.
    Only damage will kill enemies.

    Think the best is, that we can kite the enemies, while we damage them.
    Last edited by Laubgaenger; May 15 2018 at 10:20 AM.

  14. #14
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    Distraction and Still as Death

    These are when the initial plan gets you killed and you have not reduced the number of mobs you need to kill. If you have no problem killing a group keep playing with the same strategy, if not bring in an alternative strategy that can involve these skills. But ending a fight successfully that has you low on morale and waiting around to heal up before attacking the next group is not efficient. Have the end objective in mind, not just the group of mobs in front of you at any one time.

    Still of Death for an offensive mini is not an emergency skill to save your life but an offensive skill. Part of a rotation if you like. Just like Hunter's Cry of the Hunter should be used offensively, the same with champ AE stuns. They are used so you are ready for the next fight as you finish the last one.

    If you have valared a toon and not done the "work" to finish it off, you are being carried by fellows. They will likely have put years into their character and learnt far more than just a few weeks of play has given you. They will have seen the best of minstrels and the worst, you are lucky if you get help, often you'd just be replaced. But getting and acting on advice is important, pay back the help by going back to get deeds done, virtues maxed, trait points maxed, LIs setup and maxed so that it's only your skill that tells others how good you are and not the lack of skills on your bar or stats that mean you just can't heal as well as the next mini.

    Mac
    See my Lotro gaming videos:
    Macdui on Youtube.

  15. #15

    Mordor is death

    Armour certainly helps, and being a heavy armour makes a big difference too! But forced grouping gets really old and hard to do. Most of my friends made it through Mordor and claimed they loved it. Funny thing is they are now playing other games. They said they only had lunch time or a couple of hours at the max to play and it took nearly all their time trying to find someone to join. Some had played lotro for 11 years.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macdui View Post
    Distraction and Still as Death

    These are when the initial plan gets you killed and you have not reduced the number of mobs you need to kill. If you have no problem killing a group keep playing with the same strategy, if not bring in an alternative strategy that can involve these skills. But ending a fight successfully that has you low on morale and waiting around to heal up before attacking the next group is not efficient. Have the end objective in mind, not just the group of mobs in front of you at any one time.

    Mac
    Right on target Mac!

    Quote Originally Posted by Laubgaenger View Post

    Sorry, but that reads for me, that the enemies will die on age.
    i use the fear, if something comes in the fight, that i had not invited and is not welcomed (and i see it first)
    Still As Death does not work while stunned, else i create more damage as i take.
    Only damage will kill enemies.

    Think the best is, that we can kite the enemies, while we damage them.
    Luabgaenger; Ultimately your statement that damage kills enemies is true, but once the mobs reach you/the Fellowship you have to kill them before they kill you or your Fellowship's Tank. I find your statement suffers from tunnel-vision; yes the Minstrel can do ranged damage, but the Hunter would be a better class choice if you insist on ignoring the Minstrel's Healing, Buff and Control skilks.

    1) Still as Death is a "reset switch" for a fight, not a damage skill. Even if you have perfect execution in your pulls and sufficient damage to kill the mobs before they reach you there are many spots in LOTRO with wandering mobs as well as static/stationary. Having a Signature mob or multiple wanderers join the fight can be a quick death for a minstrel (or anything but a tank). I was doing landscape in Naerband last night and was a hunter in the area fall twice. Still as Death can save you a lot of time as Mordor respawns are rarely near where you left off questing.

    2) Song of Distraction, if you do not need it good for you. I only use it on groups 3+ as my opening Skill. It doesn't cause aggro and gives me more control over the fight for Solo play.
    Last edited by FoilFodder; May 24 2018 at 07:09 PM.

 

 

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