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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MithrielWielder View Post
    How exactly do you buy a key from another player with real money ? And why wouldn't that be a TOS ?
    That is not being discussed at all. I think you misread or misunderstood the discussion.

    I know someone is eventually going to say, "But wait! Why don't you just not buy any keys and use the dailies to get your own keys for free?"

    The only problem with that, is that I am not going to do Mordor Allegiance and Restoring the North dailies for a measly 6 keys a week when I can simply spend 250-300 gold for a key and get 20 keys in one sitting. In-game gold is extremely easy to get and it saves me and many other players the trouble of running dailies on all of our characters to get keys. The issue here is that players who simply want to avoid doing a ton of dailies a day across all of their characters by buying keys with their in-game gold are being banned erroneously.

  2. #27
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    inb4lock

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hejazia.Arkenstone View Post
    That is not being discussed at all. I think you misread or misunderstood the discussion.

    I know someone is eventually going to say, "But wait! Why don't you just not buy any keys and use the dailies to get your own keys for free?"

    The only problem with that, is that I am not going to do Mordor Allegiance and Restoring the North dailies for a measly 6 keys a week when I can simply spend 250-300 gold for a key and get 20 keys in one sitting. In-game gold is extremely easy to get and it saves me and many other players the trouble of running dailies on all of our characters to get keys.
    Just to add to your point... The system is designed so that someone with real money can buy keys for those that cannot or do not want to spend real money in order to keep a revenue stream consistent. It is not against TOS when done correctly (e.g. Mithril Coins), however those buying the keys/coins with IRL money are abusing/exploiting the system to gain more than intended and those buying with in game currency from the abusers have no way of knowing that the goods were gained illegitimately.

    They are banning people for using the system they implemented.
    Last edited by Arathlo; Apr 15 2018 at 08:35 PM.
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  4. #29

    Thumbs down

    Pretty sad this game has just turned to pay to win trash by SSG not to mention they screw over people who actually spend money like moors players can hardly play because of lag vip.ers that pay to pvp are paying for lag. And it’s very sad that they ban people for just playing the game while they let the real people breaking CoC go they need to get their act together or this game will be done within the year. We all love this game but SSG is ruining it turbine did a better job than you guys pretty sad for company that had the nickname t u r d b i n e

  5. #30
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    This was bound to happen at some point. Ultimately, through SSG/Turbine's own game decisions regarding gold inflation, store items, and grind, coupled with the individual loot system, they've created a systemic gold selling issue where individuals are making 60,000 USD/year selling gold. Individuals, not people controlling teams of cent-per-hour workers in developing countries. These are smart college kids who realize they can make hundreds of dollars an hour. Until SSG gets its collective head out of its ### and fixes these exploitable game mechanics as well as re-designs the content that creates this demand, the gold sellers are going nowhere.

    At every step of the way they've opted to not fix the underlying issues, and instead focus on Band-Aid chat fixes and customer bans. This is just the next level of them taking out their poor design on players, all while having no real moral leg to stand on because they allow gold/gear sales done through their store.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarahimal01340 View Post
    This was bound to happen at some point. Ultimately, through SSG/Turbine's own game decisions regarding gold inflation, store items, and grind, coupled with the individual loot system, they've created a systemic gold selling issue where individuals are making 60,000 USD/year selling gold.
    Where are u getting this number? The problem is specificly thisss people making a huge deal out of gold spammers forcing ssg to take drastic.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sahanto View Post
    Where are u getting this number? The problem is specificly thisss people making a huge deal out of gold spammers forcing ssg to take drastic.
    I've had contact with some of the sellers, mostly because I'm interested in this sort of thing from a game design aspect. IMO LOTRO's gold selling issue is pretty unique across the MMO genre, there aren't many other games that have opened themselves up to it to this degree, especially not games as dead as this one. The factors behind it are fascinating and it makes for a great summary of a how-not-to as far as game economy management goes.

    That being said, it's pretty easy to do the math on it. During the Rakothas exploit era there were people making 30-100 USD per 15 minute Rakothas fight on as many 3 box setups as they had in a given week. I'm sure some people were running as many as 50. Multiply that, then add in whatever they were getting from selling store items or rank or whatever else, as well as straight currency like gold that they're getting from AFK macro bots. And from what I understand there's a similar setup for Abyss, so I'd guess the total would be pretty current. Not to mention the added income from keys. These guys aren't going anywhere because the money is crazy and it's easy to rebuild their setups if they get banned.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hejazia.Arkenstone View Post
    You seem to know a lot about aforementioned scammers, seeing as how you are able to give such a specific figure. One can only imagine why...
    Haha, that's totally one way to look at it. I haven't ever sold or bought, though. Like I said in my previous post, I'm fascinated by it/the rest of the design flaws in this game, especially now that I mainly play Black Desert Online, which is about as well-managed as an MMO gets. Seriously, go look at what they do in terms of marketplace management/perma bans for anything remotely resembling an exploit. It's refreshing.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarahimal01340 View Post
    I've had contact with some of the sellers, mostly because I'm interested in this sort of thing from a game design aspect. IMO LOTRO's gold selling issue is pretty unique across the MMO genre, there aren't many other games that have opened themselves up to it to this degree, especially not games as dead as this one. The factors behind it are fascinating and it makes for a great summary of a how-not-to as far as game economy management goes.

    That being said, it's pretty easy to do the math on it. During the Rakothas exploit era there were people making 30-100 USD per 15 minute Rakothas fight on as many 3 box setups as they had in a given week. I'm sure some people were running as many as 50. Multiply that, then add in whatever they were getting from selling store items or rank or whatever else, as well as straight currency like gold that they're getting from AFK macro bots. And from what I understand there's a similar setup for Abyss, so I'd guess the total would be pretty current. Not to mention the added income from keys. These guys aren't going anywhere because the money is crazy and it's easy to rebuild their setups if they get banned.
    No...no....no no no no

    First of all: EVERY MMO HAS GOLD SPAMMER. Swtor, wow the list goes on. (btw 30-100 is a pretty big gap
    Second of all in the 5 min life span of a gold spamming account i doubt the even slightly cared about ur question, i think ur just making something up so u can back ur previous argument.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sahanto View Post
    No...no....no no no no

    First of all: EVERY MMO HAS GOLD SPAMMER. Swtor, wow the list goes on. (btw 30-100 is a pretty big gap
    Second of all in the 5 min life span of a gold spamming account i doubt the even slightly cared about ur question, i think ur just making something up so u can back ur previous argument.
    30-100 is because they were selling rare drops at a price-per-piece amount. No rare drops, no money. Lots of rare drops, lots of money.

    Also, obviously every MMO has gold spammers. BDO has gold spammers and you have to physically give your account information to someone who grinds for you. I'm not going to argue with you about how LOTRO's system is different on here, going into details would take a 10+ page post with some spreadsheets of changing gold values at endgame. If you want, I'm in Trinno's pvp discord. I'll answer whatever questions you have.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sahanto View Post
    No...no....no no no no

    First of all: EVERY MMO HAS GOLD SPAMMER. Swtor, wow the list goes on. (btw 30-100 is a pretty big gap
    Second of all in the 5 min life span of a gold spamming account i doubt the even slightly cared about ur question, i think ur just making something up so u can back ur previous argument.
    He said he chatted with the sellers, not the spammers. I examined one of the LOTRO spammer websites and it had the option to chat with a live rep. There certainly isn't any way to verify what the gold seller said.

    I also traced from that site back to one hosted in Russia advertising gold, item, etc. sales for ALL the major MMOs in Cyrillic. They'd swiped the logos from all the games to display for links on their front page.
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  12. #37
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    This is interesting...
    Me , my kin and my friends never got a ban so far , i am willing to speculate there is more to this than what people claim in the thread.

    I could also speculate that the 1-week bans are a result of an automated process of banning gold spammers that are on fire these days.
    They basically see ''bl4ck st33l k3y'' or something similar on their spam report and they ban. That doesn't mean a human does it : d
    The spam report could be mistakenly triggered by a player or who knows what else.
    I am not saying this a serious system , no , it's a total joke , and SSG is a joke too when it comes to their efforts vs gold sellers but still , it could somewhat explain it.

    Anyway , i refuse to believe SSG throws permanent bans for buying/selling black steel keys. There is more here for sure , and all the victims hide something : )

    PS1.The reason '''''players''''' sell keys for 200-250g instead of ~350 which is the usual price , is because they want to get rid of them fast before the automated ban hammer.
    As to why they deserve a ban in the first place , i'll speculate again and say they got them in an illegal way.

    PS2.I also happen to know IRL one of the biggest Auction house sellers on my server. Buying and reselling all sort of stuff from trade chat is one of his main activities , and still , no ban.
    Last edited by BotLike; Apr 16 2018 at 01:03 AM.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    Anyway , i refuse to believe SSG throws permanent bans for buying/selling black steel keys. There is more here for sure , and all the victims hide something : )
    You must be kidding right ? Automated bans ? W00t ? They can't implement properly chat filter without breaking something. They can't implement simple filter to ban ppl who spam SAME message WITHOUT modifying it every 0.5 second (which is literally if(prevMsg==thisMsg AND prevMsg.Time-thisMsg.time<=1second)>auto ban). Just don't comment on things you are not familiar with at all.

    Bit of a derailment, but there was some sort of RP event in the PvP map and when normal Free-Peoples players who were unaware of such event decided to kill the Monster players as you normally do on a PvP map, the Monster players threw a hissy fit in OOC and on the forum while also spam reporting for "harassment". All in all, these bans are utterly ridiculous.
    Except Arkenstone is not RP server.


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    Last edited by Leopoldio; Apr 16 2018 at 02:54 AM.

  14. #39
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    I don't know why they would punish someone just for buying or selling an item, unless of course they have evidence to prove that the transaction is 100% known to be supporting those who sell gold/items for real money outside of the game. It's a pretty harsh slap in the face otherwise if an innocent player receives a ban just for purchasing an item player-to-player in-game. Kind of makes me a bit weary of trading at the moment, not going to lie. I would hope SSG are doing more to investigate who is running these companies and which accounts are legitimately associated with those people to remove those from the game.
    As for the chat spam... I thought F2P accounts had chat restrictions? or is that no longer the case? Perhaps duplicate messaging within a specified time-frame could be flagged automatically as spam?
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    This is interesting...

    Anyway , i refuse to believe SSG throws permanent bans for buying/selling black steel keys. There is more here for sure , and all the victims hide something : )
    While I don't disagree with there being more to the story, I do disagree with the "all" victims hide something. I'm still completely baffled by the fact that this is even happening. This is the second time in 2 months that SSG has come down with the ban hammer with no previous statement being released as to why or what for. First, it was CoS (which now we all know was an exploit but that's not my point). A kinny I personally know was banned today until August 2045. No email. No warning. He had to log into the forums to find out he was banned. The reason? No reason was given. He bought keys legitimately from the store with the intention of selling them for in-game currency as usual. My biggest problem with this is why are no warnings going out? Clearly, the people who have been banned thus far are people I'm assuming who have had their account for years and have been part of what makes this player base so great. Cant SSG just look at this account and realize they aren't gold sellers? Someone else pointed out that there is no way for someone to know they are buying something that was obtained through other illegal means. In summary, SSG is killing the player base that literally pays its salaries.

    This also brings up an entirely new question. How are people even able to obtain items to sell illegitimately?! Gold sellers were never an issue when Turbine owned and ran this game. I understand people can "farm LOTRO points which requires nothing but time and therefore can buy things in the store to sell like SSG's system is meant to work. If you don't want people farming LOTRO points then why not just make it so they can only be obtained via RL money? I feel like SSG doesn't even care about this game or is player base and they only care about lining their pockets with money.
    Last edited by Thriwen; Apr 16 2018 at 07:10 PM.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopoldio View Post
    You must be kidding right ? Automated bans ? W00t ? They can't implement properly chat filter without breaking something. They can't implement simple filter to ban ppl who spam SAME message WITHOUT modifying it every 0.5 second (which is literally if(prevMsg==thisMsg AND prevMsg.Time-thisMsg.time<=1second)>auto ban). Just don't comment on things you are not familiar with at all.
    Well considering the amount of spammers nowadays , i am certain even they tried to come up with something to lighten their limited GMs' burden.
    There are gold sellers spamming almost constantly.
    It simply failed to work properly , as you said , they can't do anything without breaking something else.

    I am also surprised they never managed to implement a spam chat filter for everyone : D

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    This is interesting...
    Me , my kin and my friends never got a ban so far , i am willing to speculate there is more to this than what people claim in the thread.

    I could also speculate that the 1-week bans are a result of an automated process of banning gold spammers that are on fire these days.
    They basically see ''bl4ck st33l k3y'' or something similar on their spam report and they ban. That doesn't mean a human does it : d
    The spam report could be mistakenly triggered by a player or who knows what else.
    I am not saying this a serious system , no , it's a total joke , and SSG is a joke too when it comes to their efforts vs gold sellers but still , it could somewhat explain it.

    Anyway , i refuse to believe SSG throws permanent bans for buying/selling black steel keys. There is more here for sure , and all the victims hide something : )

    PS1.The reason '''''players''''' sell keys for 200-250g instead of ~350 which is the usual price , is because they want to get rid of them fast before the automated ban hammer.
    As to why they deserve a ban in the first place , i'll speculate again and say they got them in an illegal way.

    PS2.I also happen to know IRL one of the biggest Auction house sellers on my server. Buying and reselling all sort of stuff from trade chat is one of his main activities , and still , no ban.
    Indeed some people in here are far from little innocent birds. Dont fall on it people...

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    I could also speculate that the 1-week bans are a result of an automated process of banning gold spammers that are on fire these days.
    They basically see ''bl4ck st33l k3y'' or something similar on their spam report and they ban. That doesn't mean a human does it : d
    The spam report could be mistakenly triggered by a player or who knows what else.
    Nobody in this chat has spammed World chat. The bans have been exclusively for receiving Black Steel Keys in the mail as a COD. That is why the word "key" is being filtered out, and you could not connect these dots if you didn't know this background information. You can speculate all you want, but facts are facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    Anyway , i refuse to believe SSG throws permanent bans for buying/selling black steel keys. There is more here for sure , and all the victims hide something : )
    They banned people for running CoS at 105 and obtaining the challenge chest despite it being a very marginal reward since its a lvl 105 chest, I'm sure you can stretch your imagination just a little bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    PS1.The reason '''''players''''' sell keys for 200-250g instead of ~350 which is the usual price , is because they want to get rid of them fast before the automated ban hammer.
    As to why they deserve a ban in the first place , i'll speculate again and say they got them in an illegal way.
    I personally have never seen keys being sold at 200g on Arkenstone, the prices have always been above 250g. I bought 20 keys from former kinmate for 280g each yesterday and I most definitely will not get banned for that. What I am concerned about is the fact that a small group of people have been the victims of a blanket ban. It does not matter that the people who have had the opportunity to speak up within the last 24 hours are few in number, not everyone uses the forum and this is a legitimate issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    PS2.I also happen to know IRL one of the biggest Auction house sellers on my server. Buying and reselling all sort of stuff from trade chat is one of his main activities , and still , no ban.
    LOL..... you cannot even post Black Steel Keys on Auction House since they are LOTRO Store item. You can only mail with Mithril Coins. You can buy/sell any item that does not come by spending LP and not fear a ban. But when you buy an item from LOTRO Store, there is now the risk that the item originally came from a scammed credit card payment. So unless if you know the seller and he is legitimate, then I would exercise caution.

    I personally have not been affected because I've always been careful about buying/selling from strangers, but who knows what could happen in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galuhad View Post
    As for the chat spam... I thought F2P accounts had chat restrictions? or is that no longer the case? Perhaps duplicate messaging within a specified time-frame could be flagged automatically as spam?
    I can answer this question. The people who spam world chat use some premium accounts that have had their login information compromised, or they have purchased premium accounts on a 3rd party website from players who no longer play. Premium accounts are also used to farm gold, since F2P accounts cannot send gold to other players.

  19. #44
    I'd like to offer you (SSG) a solution.
    1. Bring back unbound keys. What even was the reasoning for making the keys from dailies bound? I personally, and I know lots of people who do the same, have loads of toons that are rolled, Aria'd, then quickly leveled to cap without taking them through mordor thereby not having dailies unlocked. I enjoyed Mordor the first, second and maybe even the 5th time, but at some point I just couldn't be bothered to run through mordor again so I can't get keys for them without spending money on LP or in game currency for them. I amassed a fortune in my years of playing, if I want to spend my gold on keys I should be allowed to without the fear of getting banned, I have nothing else to spend gold on and I don't want to always have to buy keys with my own money through the store.
    2. In conjunction with bringing back unbound keys, remove the option to use mithril coins to send other players store bought items. Done. No more illegal transactions for keys. You're welcome SSG

    Perhaps SSG is making it harder for us to obtain keys so it takes longer to gear out toons thereby extending the amount of time they have to create new content, if they plan to at all. I mean why not add black steel keys to lootboxes, or a chance for them to drop from mobs similar to sturdy steel keys.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hejazia.Arkenstone View Post
    They banned people for running CoS at 105 and obtaining the challenge chest despite it being a very marginal reward since its a lvl 105 chest, I'm sure you can stretch your imagination just a little bit.
    I am happy they did.There is no challenge quest and still , they spawn a challenge chest on a non-cap instance.
    Plz explain to me how someone can farm it on 105 challenge multiple times without an intention to exploit. I don't care how small the reward is.
    I was also happy when they banned rakothas exploiters or Silent street hilt exploiters.
    Eventually , i hope they'll ban AoM trash skippers too although judging by what happened in Vadokhar , they might let it go.

    They delay the bans intentionally , because they are a cheap studio that wants to milk 'kids' dry before applying the ban hammer.

    Either way , exploit is exploit.

    And in the end , this studio has let sooooo many things go , like exploiting instances ( silent street last boss , early mumaks , unbroken one etc etc ) but that doesn't mean the bans they do are not justified.

    As for this thread's case , i am still waiting to see an explanation as to why they supposedly throw permanent bans to innocent trade chat buyers. Till then , sorry , i won't bite.

    Fact remains , the game is still broken and pay to win , and bans like those are the least of my concerns ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Hejazia.Arkenstone View Post
    LOL..... you cannot even post Black Steel Keys on Auction House since they are LOTRO Store item. You can only mail with Mithril Coins. You can buy/sell any item that does not come by spending LP and not fear a ban. But when you buy an item from LOTRO Store, there is now the risk that the item originally came from a scammed credit card payment. So unless if you know the seller and he is legitimate, then I would exercise caution.
    I forgot to mention that in the case of black steel keys , i've seen him resell them in trade chat multiple times , but anyway... Our auction house still has keys in it.

    And what about solvents ? QQ
    Last edited by BotLike; Apr 16 2018 at 08:08 AM.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    I am happy they did.There is no challenge quest and still , they spawn a challenge chest on a non-cap instance.
    Plz explain to me how someone can farm it on 105 challenge multiple times without an intention to exploit. I don't care how small the reward is.
    I was also happy when they banned rakothas exploiters or Silent street hilt exploiters.
    Eventually , i hope they'll ban AoM trash skippers too although judging by what happened in Vadokhar , they might let it go.

    They delay the bans intentionally , because they are a cheap studio that wants to milk 'kids' dry before applying the ban hammer.

    Either way , exploit is exploit.

    And in the end , this studio has let sooooo many things go , like exploiting instances ( silent street last boss , early mumaks , unbroken one etc etc ) but that doesn't mean the bans they do are not justified.

    As for this thread's case , i am still waiting to see an explanation as to why they supposedly throw permanent bans to innocent trade chat buyers. Till then , sorry , i won't bite.

    Fact remains , the game is still broken and pay to win , and bans like those are the least of my concerns ^^
    You're talking about exploits but how is that comparable to buying things for gold and getting banned until 2045 with no warning?

    I'm about to quote someone, please explain what massive exploit that this person did to warrant such a ban?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thriwen View Post
    While I don't disagree with there being more to the story, I do disagree with the "all" victims hide something. A kinny I personally know was banned today until August 2045. No email. No warning. He had to log into the forums to find out he was banned. The reason? No reason was given. He bought keys legitimately from the store with the intention of selling them for in-game currency as usual.
    inb4 spending LOTRO points gained through VIP bonus or deed grinding to sell keys, is a bannable offense. *rolls eyes*

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hejazia.Arkenstone View Post
    I'm about to quote someone, please explain what massive exploit that this person did to warrant such a ban?
    You are asking for a guess right ? Perhaps he bought LP in an illegal way orrrr the 'story' is not true in the first place.

    There is zero chance they are banning people that play along their pay2win baby and sell legally-earned stuff in trade chat. They made it happen themselves long ago for a reason , more money.

    If this a false ban wave then i am certain they will fix it , but i doubt it is , even SSG is not capable of banning their best customers ( MMO whales or players who pay real money for end-game rewards or gold etc ) unless they have a REAL reason.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    This is interesting...
    Me , my kin and my friends never got a ban so far , i am willing to speculate there is more to this than what people claim in the thread.
    You know, i brought this issue up on the Reddit sub about 2 months ago about being banned for buying black steel keys for in-game gold and I got this same kind of toxic answer. Its happening to numerous people, being brought up different times, and different examples. Yet I am still reading this #### two months later. Just because it doesnt happen to you does not mean people are getting caught by buying from what is suppose to be a legitimate means (who even knows at this point). You have had plenty of people come forward saying they are all getting banned for the same reasons. I think its much more than a coincidence or a conspiracy of people hiding information like you're trying to make it out to be.

    Its this kind of GM behavior and lack of a player base supporting one another that drove me away from this game finally after 11 years

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckygirl1 View Post
    You know, i brought this issue up on the Reddit sub about 2 months ago about being banned for buying black steel keys for in-game gold and I got this same kind of toxic answer. Its happening to numerous people, being brought up different times, and different examples. Yet I am still reading this #### two months later. Just because it doesnt happen to you does not mean people are getting caught by buying from what is suppose to be a legitimate means (who even knows at this point). You have had plenty of people come forward saying they are all getting banned for the same reasons. I think its much more than a coincidence or a conspiracy of people hiding information like you're trying to make it out to be.

    Its this kind of GM behavior and lack of a player base supporting one another that drove me away from this game finally after 11 years

    You are absolutely right, this happened to my friend 3 days ago, he got perma banned without receiving email and they closed his appeal without response, really funny.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckygirl1 View Post
    You know, i brought this issue up on the Reddit sub about 2 months ago about being banned for buying black steel keys for in-game gold and I got this same kind of toxic answer. Its happening to numerous people, being brought up different times, and different examples. Yet I am still reading this #### two months later. Just because it doesnt happen to you does not mean people are getting caught by buying from what is suppose to be a legitimate means (who even knows at this point). You have had plenty of people come forward saying they are all getting banned for the same reasons. I think its much more than a coincidence or a conspiracy of people hiding information like you're trying to make it out to be.

    Its this kind of GM behavior and lack of a player base supporting one another that drove me away from this game finally after 11 years
    Was going to type out a response but you hit the nail on the head.

    Do people like BotLike and siipperi think that all of these players are "crisis actors?" Give me a break.

 

 
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