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  1. #101
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    Yet another update to this thread.

    Today SSG added an instant verification system on credit cards when you make a transaction from the store, replacing the old system that took 2-3 days to process your transaction. This is a really good change as it fixes the fraudulent system in place that allowed people to put exploited keys, AoV, etc. into the in-game market.

    As crazy as this thread has been, at least two good changes came about after it was created.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by valkrye View Post
    translation: "there have been key bans but we won't undo them nor do we care because in our opinion we have not banned anyone since a vaguely recent time"

    and i supposed all of these players who have gotten banned for buying things for real money are liars too? since apparently nobody was banned?
    what a joke do you think people who pay for your game are stupid?
    Yuh banns were not revoked, so ssg admits its mistake, fixes it, and dosnt help the victims

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hejazia.Arkenstone View Post
    Yet another update to this thread.

    Today SSG added an instant verification system on credit cards when you make a transaction from the store, replacing the old system that took 2-3 days to process your transaction. This is a really good change as it fixes the fraudulent system in place that allowed people to put exploited keys, AoV, etc. into the in-game market.

    As crazy as this thread has been, at least two good changes came about after it was created.
    Wait... You think the change was due to this thread? lol

    Keeping looking at your reflection in the water.



    This backdoor exploit has been around for 8 years. It is about time they fixed it.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian.S View Post
    Wait... You think the change was due to this thread? lol

    Keeping looking at your reflection in the water.



    This backdoor exploit has been around for 8 years. It is about time they fixed it.
    Oh and I suppose they just got around to fixing the problem in the past few days after it's gone unnoticed for 8 years out of coincidence. Give me a break. None of your posts in this thread have been even remotely constructive. You're clearly biased against the players who have been directly affected by this issue and you're using that bias to be counterproductive to finding a solution that helps the innocent players who have recieved wrongful punishment because of players who abused this problem. Too bad you and the few other ignorant trolls in this thread weren't the ones wrongfully banned. At least then we would be rid of your stupidity.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hejazia.Arkenstone View Post
    I mean, if you think this thread is still about chat spam, I don't know what to tell you. *shrug*
    This is what I have taken away from the conversation:

    All the players jumped on the SSG-is-banning-innocent-players-for-selling/buying-in-trade-chat bandwagon.

    Only ban with some measure of proof? Was for spamming. So yeah, way to jump down the rabbit hole without any concrete evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cenifh View Post
    since when is offering a sale every 1.5 mins chat spam?
    Since ever. You don't seem to be super familiar with the term. Frequency is actually not the original criteria. It's "unsolicited messages to large numbers of receivers" typically with a commercial spin of some sort. One single message can be considered spam if it reaches enough people, depending on the content. And since I almost never see someone restricting the hawking of their wares to just the /trade channel, but also post it in /world as well, I consider that spam. We have /trade for that. Don't put it in /world as well (we have no proof of whether they did or not, just that they got the boot for spamming). And every 1.5 minutes is unnecessary. They must be pretty sure they might miss that golden opportunity of a buyer in the 1 min 29 seconds that they don't send the message.

    The whole thread is a joke. Cordovan has been warning us on the forums since two months ago. First the anti-spammer announcement HERE and the follow-up comments HERE. The whole thing is warning against exchanging in sales in chat or the in-game mail system from people you don't know. I wouldn't be sorry if /trade went away entirely -- that's what the AH is for.

    It's simple. If you can't tell if its a legit purchase or not, walk the other way. And if someone got keys from a spammer and then resold them, then it gets even worse.

    One thing that has bugged me for years is that this community has a really hard time grasping what the channels are for and will spam their message in every chat they can. Somehow people just really can't keep their messages restricted to /trade.

    To the pictures of the high level officer with good gear, that means absolute squat. People place too much faith in other people. That person could be anyone. His/her account could have been hacked. He/she might have become disgruntled with SSG and decided to stoop to low levels. Literally anything. In the current environment, it is hazardous to exchange in trades with strangers. If you are willing to jeopardize your account, go right ahead. Just don't cry when you get the boot after being warned.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 115 MNS Fayah/115 LM Siennah/115 HNT Dinenol/115 RK Dhurik
    115 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/61 BUR Dhax/115 WDN Godoric
    R9 115 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fresuvi View Post
    Oh and I suppose they just got around to fixing the problem in the past few days after it's gone unnoticed for 8 years out of coincidence. Give me a break. None of your posts in this thread have been even remotely constructive. You're clearly biased against the players who have been directly affected by this issue and you're using that bias to be counterproductive to finding a solution that helps the innocent players who have recieved wrongful punishment because of players who abused this problem. Too bad you and the few other ignorant trolls in this thread weren't the ones wrongfully banned. At least then we would be rid of your stupidity.
    Yes I do think they just got around to it. It has nothing to do with this thread being created. It hasn't gone unnoticed. Just by you obviously. This exploit has been used by gold seller's for the past two years or more. Also its been used by hundreds if not thousands of players. The honest players recognize it and don't repeat those steps again. Many players in the last eight years have been banned for doing the same thing,you just aren't privy to that info. I know because, I knew players who did it alot and they all served temp bans and then permabans for repeat offenses. Another player who wants a break? Imagine that.

    There is nothing constructive about this topic. All it did was expose the depths the some gamers will go. Everyone knows by now, buying and selling outside of the AH has an unwanted risk,yet many still do it regardless.
    I am clearly biased.
    Clearly biased by the fact I know better than to pay cash to not play a game.
    Clearly biased by know the difference between truth and hidden pretty lies.
    Clearly biased by knowing no one is innocent if they engage an RMTer or its extensions knowingly or unknowingly.

    How many times the uneducated capitulate, to guttural feelings in expressing their disgust for those who don't agree, amazes me.

    I can say with certainty if I were banned, I wouldn't be here on an alt account complaining about why I can't continue to violate the rules.


    You were saying?

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    This is what I have taken away from the conversation:

    All the players jumped on the SSG-is-banning-innocent-players-for-selling/buying-in-trade-chat bandwagon.

    Only ban with some measure of proof? Was for spamming. So yeah, way to jump down the rabbit hole without any concrete evidence.



    Since ever. You don't seem to be super familiar with the term. Frequency is actually not the original criteria. It's "unsolicited messages to large numbers of receivers" typically with a commercial spin of some sort. One single message can be considered spam if it reaches enough people, depending on the content. And since I almost never see someone restricting the hawking of their wares to just the /trade channel, but also post it in /world as well, I consider that spam. We have /trade for that. Don't put it in /world as well (we have no proof of whether they did or not, just that they got the boot for spamming). And every 1.5 minutes is unnecessary. They must be pretty sure they might miss that golden opportunity of a buyer in the 1 min 29 seconds that they don't send the message.

    The whole thread is a joke. Cordovan has been warning us on the forums since two months ago. First the anti-spammer announcement HERE and the follow-up comments HERE. The whole thing is warning against exchanging in sales in chat or the in-game mail system from people you don't know. I wouldn't be sorry if /trade went away entirely -- that's what the AH is for.

    It's simple. If you can't tell if its a legit purchase or not, walk the other way. And if someone got keys from a spammer and then resold them, then it gets even worse.

    One thing that has bugged me for years is that this community has a really hard time grasping what the channels are for and will spam their message in every chat they can. Somehow people just really can't keep their messages restricted to /trade.

    To the pictures of the high level officer with good gear, that means absolute squat. People place too much faith in other people. That person could be anyone. His/her account could have been hacked. He/she might have become disgruntled with SSG and decided to stoop to low levels. Literally anything. In the current environment, it is hazardous to exchange in trades with strangers. If you are willing to jeopardize your account, go right ahead. Just don't cry when you get the boot after being warned.
    Both those warnings are great warnings against the obvious. Do not respond to unsolicited mails, tells or visit links to seller sites etc. Neither warn a player to not buy a key using in game gold from a seemingly legit seller through the usual avenues. ie WTS 10 keys (price), then buyer buys.

    There is one line in one of the warnings that speaks pretty loudly.

    "This is more about people deliberately buying gold from spammers to attempt to get other people banned"

    If that line can be posted, then that problem exists, and it is indeed possible for a player to get banned for something they did unwittingly. If it can't happen, then that line wouldn't exist.

    I trust SSG pretty well that the massive majority of the time they get this right, but if it's possible (enough to warrant a warning about it, that not every player has seen by the way, and I tend to put a lot of faith in people) for one player to buy gold to get another player banned, then there is going to be a proportion of time when it isn't always right.

    I don't buy progression, so I don't buy keys, or valars etc, and if I ever did want to, I'd buy my own, directly from the store, and fund my own game. So it would be easy for me to stand here and point a finger, but, I know quite a few people in game that rely on buying stuff off other players, and I know they aren't doing anything dodgy, so I wouldn't automatically point a finger at them for simply - buying stuff.

    There are very real dangers involved by going into auto-pilot and assuming if someone buys, or maybe sells a bit cheaper, they are automatically in the gold spam trade. I mean where does that end? the most recent items to hit the spammed advertisements are fragments of the abyss. Those are in game items, only earned one way. Should it be assumed then that any spammer selling a fragment is a raider? No? Then should it be assumed then that any raider that sold a fragment wittingly sold it to a gold spammer? You see where that goes right? I think a little more faith in people is what's needed, not that there is too much faith.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Apr 19 2018 at 02:38 AM.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian.S View Post
    Yes I do think they just got around to it. It has nothing to do with this thread being created. It hasn't gone unnoticed. Just by you obviously. This exploit has been used by gold seller's for the past two years or more. Also its been used by hundreds if not thousands of players. The honest players recognize it and don't repeat those steps again. Many players in the last eight years have been banned for doing the same thing,you just aren't privy to that info. I know because, I knew players who did it alot and they all served temp bans and then permabans for repeat offenses. Another player who wants a break? Imagine that.

    There is nothing constructive about this topic. All it did was expose the depths the some gamers will go. Everyone knows by now, buying and selling outside of the AH has an unwanted risk,yet many still do it regardless.
    I am clearly biased.
    Clearly biased by the fact I know better than to pay cash to not play a game.
    Clearly biased by know the difference between truth and hidden pretty lies.
    Clearly biased by knowing no one is innocent if they engage an RMTer or its extensions knowingly or unknowingly.

    How many times the uneducated capitulate, to guttural feelings in expressing their disgust for those who don't agree, amazes me.

    I can say with certainty if I were banned, I wouldn't be here on an alt account complaining about why I can't continue to violate the rules.


    You were saying?
    First off, I acknowledged that this exploit has been an issue since pre HD in this thread before you even brought it up. In fact, I was the first one in the thread to explicitly explain what the exploit is. So yes, I'm privy to the information.
    Second, I haven't been banned in this game ever, even for a single day because I don't break the CoC. So, I'm not here posting on an alt account.
    Third, I'm here sticking up for good friends who were randomly banned without warning for purchasing items in trade chat for IN GAME GOLD. This is in no way a violation of the CoC.

    And finally, the bias I'm referring to is your disdain for some of the players who are posting here also trying to stick up for innocent players who have recieved wrongful punishment. You obviously have some false preconceptions of these players and you're taking out that bias in a really toxic way.

    Players like you, and all the toxicity that you bring are worthless additions to this community. I constantly see you getting into little forum spats with other players, often casting blame on others while attempting to lord yourself over them on your high horse. You're doing it again on this forum and to be quite frank, I'm not gonna stand for it on this issue. You say "everyone knows by now buying and selling outside of the AH has an unwanted risk", WHERE is that a bannable offense in the terms of service. That's right, no where.

    Take your loser BS somewhere else and rid us of your stupidity and toxicity.

    Thanks, Bye.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Both those warnings are great warnings against the obvious. Do not respond to unsolicited mails, tells or visit links to seller sites etc. Neither warn a player to not buy a key using in game gold from a seemingly legit seller through the usual avenues. ie WTS 10 keys (price), then buyer buys.

    There is one line in one of the warnings that speaks pretty loudly.

    "This is more about people deliberately buying gold from spammers to attempt to get other people banned"

    If that line can be posted, then that problem exists, and it is indeed possible for a player to get banned for something they did unwittingly. If it can't happen, then that line wouldn't exist.

    I trust SSG pretty well that the massive majority of the time they get this right, but if it's possible (enough to warrant a warning about it, that not every player has seen by the way, and I tend to put a lot of faith in people) for one player to buy gold to get another player banned, then there is going to be a proportion of time when it isn't always right.

    I don't buy progression, so I don't buy keys, or valars etc, and if I ever did want to, I'd buy my own, directly from the store, and fund my own game. So it would be easy for me to stand here and point a finger, but, I know quite a few people in game that rely on buying stuff off other players, and I know they aren't doing anything dodgy, so I wouldn't automatically point a finger at them for simply - buying stuff.

    There are very real dangers involved by going into auto-pilot and assuming if someone buys, or maybe sells a bit cheaper, they are automatically in the gold spam trade. I mean where does that end? the most recent items to hit the spammed advertisements are fragments of the abyss. Those are in game items, only earned one way. Should it be assumed then that any spammer selling a fragment is a raider? No? Then should it be assumed then that any raider that sold a fragment wittingly sold it to a gold spammer? You see where that goes right? I think a little more faith in people is what's needed, not that there is too much faith.
    But that is exactly my point. Cord even mentioned this probably won't be a recommended time to give things or sell things cheap or trading outside of the AH with strangers, specifically because it is so hard to know - as a player - if the other person in the trade is legit. The wolves are in with the sheep.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 115 MNS Fayah/115 LM Siennah/115 HNT Dinenol/115 RK Dhurik
    115 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/61 BUR Dhax/115 WDN Godoric
    R9 115 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fresuvi View Post
    Oh and I suppose they just got around to fixing the problem in the past few days after it's gone unnoticed for 8 years out of coincidence..
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian.S View Post
    Yes I do think they just got around to it. It has nothing to do with this thread being created.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fresuvi View Post
    First off, I acknowledged that this exploit has been an issue since pre HD in this thread before you even brought it up. In fact, I was the first one in the thread to explicitly explain what the exploit is. So yes, I'm privy to the information.
    Second, I haven't been banned in this game ever, even for a single day because I don't break the CoC.

    The odd things players do.

    In an older thread consisting of a very similar topic I had enough sense to not explain the exploit being used. Even when others were insisting it had something to do with game codes,I still wasn't tempted to explain it.

    Why? Because doing so is a violation of the agreement we consent to.

  11. #111
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    It is most interesting how a few think that identifying "illegitimate sales" is possible for players.
    The greedy ones stick out, the smart ones stay below the surface and continue their business.

    Up to now I haven't heard a single valid identification criterion for illegitimate sales.
    Example: The AH has a few solvent sellers that have regular names, high level, normal prices, medium sized stacks. What makes them suspicious? They sell those stacks since years, every day I looked.
    The identification criterion: long term surveillance. IMO SSGs job.

    Example: A player wants to buy-out item X for 5K gold at the AH before someone else gets it. This puts some time pressure on the player, so this player sells 20 keys for 250G a piece. Not something I would do, but up to now we have seen baby mumaks and Mordor ultimate editions, so people are obviously paying any price. The player uses a bank char with L30, both for being anonymous and because the char has more AH slots.
    Difference to an illegitimate seller? None. Could this player achive the same goal without this behavior? We could discuss about the char, but the rest is unavoidable. => clearly identified as illegitimate. Or so.

    In the end this means:
    • There is no way to identify smart gold sellers/exploiters other than long term surveillance and/or catching them doing their TOS violation. SSGs job.
    • This whole thread, regardless of truth content, creates a threat situation that is not good for SSGs own gold seller business. We may not like this business, but it is *their* decision to stop it properly or to leave it running.


    An interesting side-info:
    Selling keys for 200G gives still better money=>gold ratios than any gold seller. I wonder why people use gold sellers first place, risking ban and credit card fraud.
    Maybe failed marketing/advertisment/package sizes/whatever by SSG.

    That said, I would like to get rid of this semi-bought progress stuff. The border between pay to win and pay for convenience was always floating, but the amount of inconvenience was pushed a little too far.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fresuvi View Post
    Oh and I suppose they just got around to fixing the problem in the past few days after it's gone unnoticed for 8 years out of coincidence. Give me a break. None of your posts in this thread have been even remotely constructive. You're clearly biased against the players who have been directly affected by this issue and you're using that bias to be counterproductive to finding a solution that helps the innocent players who have recieved wrongful punishment because of players who abused this problem. Too bad you and the few other ignorant trolls in this thread weren't the ones wrongfully banned. At least then we would be rid of your stupidity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fresuvi View Post
    First off, I acknowledged that this exploit has been an issue since pre HD in this thread before you even brought it up. In fact, I was the first one in the thread to explicitly explain what the exploit is. So yes, I'm privy to the information.
    Second, I haven't been banned in this game ever, even for a single day because I don't break the CoC. So, I'm not here posting on an alt account.
    Third, I'm here sticking up for good friends who were randomly banned without warning for purchasing items in trade chat for IN GAME GOLD. This is in no way a violation of the CoC.

    And finally, the bias I'm referring to is your disdain for some of the players who are posting here also trying to stick up for innocent players who have recieved wrongful punishment. You obviously have some false preconceptions of these players and you're taking out that bias in a really toxic way.

    Players like you, and all the toxicity that you bring are worthless additions to this community. I constantly see you getting into little forum spats with other players, often casting blame on others while attempting to lord yourself over them on your high horse. You're doing it again on this forum and to be quite frank, I'm not gonna stand for it on this issue. You say "everyone knows by now buying and selling outside of the AH has an unwanted risk", WHERE is that a bannable offense in the terms of service. That's right, no where.

    Take your loser BS somewhere else and rid us of your stupidity and toxicity.

    Thanks, Bye.
    The MVP of this thread.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    But that is exactly my point. Cord even mentioned this probably won't be a recommended time to give things or sell things cheap or trading outside of the AH with strangers, specifically because it is so hard to know - as a player - if the other person in the trade is legit. The wolves are in with the sheep.
    Yes, but where did he say it? Out here, on the forum. Where in the forum? in two posts, in two threads, one of which got closed and sunk pretty quickly. Given that, it's highly possible that a very large proportion of the playerbase, didn't see the warning. Also, the warning was against the very obvious, not to visit spammer links, not to accept mail with items attached, when unsolicited. There was very little in there about buying some keys from another player, using gold, unless it involved a couple of hundred keys and very large amounts of gold. Normal, everyday trade, isn't often like that. From what I can gather in the thread here, players got banned for doing, none of the above, and just carried out a normal trade for a few items using in game gold.

    As I said earlier, this has some pretty serious implications. Do you think any player advertising an Abyss fragment for external sale for real money is automatically a raider? If you can answer no to that, then the alternative is that a raider sold a fragment to another player who then spammed it at an external link right? I'll hazard a guess that it was sold without any knowledge of what would happen to it. Automatic assumption that a raider is up to something dodgy because that fragment ended up on a gold selling site is destructive. Just the same as automatic assumption that a player who buys a few keys knows it's coming from a gold seller is. Neither party know (highly possible), the raider who sells their fragment, probably has no idea where it goes after they've mailed it. The player who buys a key or two, probably has no idea where it originated.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hejazia.Arkenstone View Post
    I have never been banned
    Then I guess we can expect to see you on your warden on landy soon.
    "You can't have your Kate and Eat her too!"

    Katelia Rk 11 Lm, Peppermintt Rk 12 Warg, Katetastrophe Rk 12 WL, Kateaclysm Rk 14 defiler

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate00 View Post
    Then I guess we can expect to see you on your warden on landy soon.
    I don't need to repeat myself for trolls who lack reading comprehension skills and constantly take statements out of context, only because they want to perpetuate a meaningless and silly beef with me. I don't play on Landroval, get over it Kate.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hejazia.Arkenstone View Post
    I don't need to repeat myself for trolls who lack reading comprehension skills and constantly take statements out of context, only because they want to perpetuate a meaningless and silly beef with me. I don't play on Landroval, get over it Kate.
    But your wardens on landy, surely you wouldnt pass up the opportunity to show us how to pvp. Unless theres some reason you cant log in.
    "You can't have your Kate and Eat her too!"

    Katelia Rk 11 Lm, Peppermintt Rk 12 Warg, Katetastrophe Rk 12 WL, Kateaclysm Rk 14 defiler

  17. #117
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    Closing at the request of the OP.
    Community Manager, Lord of the Rings Online
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