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  1. #1

    Why do Lore-Masters still play Red line anymore?

    Since Mordor came out, it is plainly obvious that you are at a distinct disadvantage when fighting Mobs which are higher level than you (much more than before) and also you have a noticeable advantage when fighting Mobs which are lower level than you.

    Which is why it makes a huge amount of sense to play a Blue line lore-master when doing normal questing rather than a Red line one. If you trait right down to the bottom of the Blue line, your pet gains 3 levels which means it is fighting the Mobs you tell it to attack with a massive advantage. I have nearly finished Northern Mirkwood with my Blue line Lore-master and it has only died once and that's only when I got jumped by 4 mobs accidently. (and it nearly won anyway!)

    I swapped over from red to blue half way through Mordor and my pet was amazing. Landscape is so easy now on blue line compared to red.

    OK you don't get "Ents Go To War" but you get "Sic 'Em" which is just as good (better IMHO).

    And the best thing that you DON'T get is "Ring of Fire", which should be renamed as "Ring Of Can't See on Earth What It Is You Are Doing Anymore" or "Ring Of Lets Pull Lots Of Mobs We Didn't Mean To"

    (BTW - This post has nothing to do with YELLOW line lore-masters which are awesome in raids etc.)

  2. #2
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    I normally play red line, but I have not yet stepped into Mordor with a lore master. I'm curious to see how that works out.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  3. #3
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    Blue line (purpley really) has been amazing for a long time now. Some people just like fire and burning things. Maybe red is good for other stuff, but for questing and non-dungeon content blue is so fun.
    Centuries ago, in primitive times, before the dawn of civilization, there were things that would be inconceivable to us today; such things as poverty, disease, violence, senility, and love.

  4. #4
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    Red line is still played because some people like to play an active role in the game instead of going ezmode and having the pet do everything for them which imo is lazy.

  5. #5
    I've been playing yellow line since my LM exists and its amazing in Mordor. There actually is use in CC again and the burst from insult to injury hits quite hard.
    I dislike blueline as I like to do the job myself instead of letting the pet do the work... but I see how its easier than red. Still, yellow is the coolest traitline imo, as long as enemies are not immune against CC. If they are, yellowline sucks.
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  6. #6
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    I have no idea; all my LMs have always traited blue, all the way down to Tutelage of the Brown Wizard, before spending any points on any other tree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digaloo View Post
    I swapped over from red to blue half way through Mordor and my pet was amazing. Landscape is so easy now on blue line compared to red.

    OK you don't get "Ents Go To War" but you get "Sic 'Em" which is just as good (better IMHO).
    Indispensable. Faced with a group of mobs, I can set my Onyx Lynx on the boss and use Sic 'em to attack everything else in sight, while I help my Lynx finish off the boss; and then we clean up whatever's left.

    Mind you, I don't try soloing mobs like that at level. I'm a LM, which means I'm a squishy weakling in light armour. My pets, and my husband's Hunter, are what keep me alive.

    And the best thing that you DON'T get is "Ring of Fire", which should be renamed as "Ring Of Can't See on Earth What It Is You Are Doing Anymore" or "Ring Of Lets Pull Lots Of Mobs We Didn't Mean To"
    Heh. It may be that many other LMs agree with you; I hardly ever see anyone use that skill, and have to take a second to remember what it is.

    (BTW - This post has nothing to do with YELLOW line lore-masters which are awesome in raids etc.)
    I'll take your word for it; I've never traited yellow either. Even in the opening days of SoA, when we didn't even have trait trees yet, and when (if my memory serves me correctly) we got the Bear before we got the Raven, and the Bear was a bumbling idiot who couldn't path worth sour apples and persisted in getting caught in tight corners-- I knew that once I got a *decent* Companion, s/he was going to save my bacon. In eleven years and six LMs, I've tried out most of the pets available, and I've settled on the Lynx. And each of my LMs manages to get the Tome of the Onyx Lynx, in memory of my cat Sebastian, 1998-2008.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digaloo View Post
    And the best thing that you DON'T get is "Ring of Fire", which should be renamed as "Ring Of Can't See on Earth What It Is You Are Doing Anymore" or "Ring Of Lets Pull Lots Of Mobs We Didn't Mean To"
    If you do not like RoF, then do not put it on your skill bar.
    Ujest - 115 Lore-master, Opun Tia - 95 Warden, Veneur - 75 Hunter, Cneasai - 61 Minstrel, plus alts and mules
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  8. #8
    I played Red line exclusively until Mordor, then I did a little reconfiguration to add some Blue traits to it. I like it that I am still necessary; that my pet is not carrying me along. I would send my Lynx in (my absolute FAVE pet), and then help him out with my own dps skills. If his health started to dip, I would heal him up. My trait line now is very much of a reddish purple, and I'm still enjoying it very much.

  9. #9
    And how do you get your sic em animals to attack ? Mine just stand around doing nothing. I cast for defense hoping some of the mobs will attack the animals instead of me.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MithrielWielder View Post
    And how do you get your sic em animals to attack ? Mine just stand around doing nothing. I cast for defense hoping some of the mobs will attack the animals instead of me.
    There is an “attack” skill. Not the one on the pet bar, but as a skill and has an icon identical to the sic ’em skill. But its casting seems to be very slow, at least on my computer.

  11. #11
    Ring of fire is an absolute liability. If red line LM's want to use when they are on their own then that is their choice but they should really think about it when around other players i.e. not necessarily even in a fellowship.

    Usually in instances when one is cast I am often playing my RK. When this happens I can't see a thing that is happening anymore so I just hit 'Tab' or 'Backspace' to target any old Mob and blast away. (Not exactly efficient!) The worst thing is when I am playing my burglar. My effectiveness is based on being able to get behind a mob in stealth to hit them hard or to see them to debuff them neither of which I have chance of doing. It is doubly worse as my Burg is a hobbit and has no chance of seeing what is going on at his height. I usually just stand there and end up not doing ANYTHING until the ROF has gone away.

    The thing about ROF is most red line LM's use it to try and show the party that they are 'doing' something. LM's are far more useful using Crowd Control and the huge debuffs they get to aid a party. Unfortunately most red line LM's just want to DPS everything like all other classes and show the world how big their 'Staff' is - lol

  12. #12
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    I’m with the people that always use lynx. For me, it’s mostly role playing reasons. It’s the only pet that feels like a companion to me.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  13. #13
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    Digaloo, it sounds as if you are just interested in proving what a forum troll you can be. This thread is nothing more than a bad attempt to get a rise out of people.

    Try harder next time. You still have a ways to go.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Madmanthief View Post
    Red line is still played because some people like to play an active role in the game instead of going ezmode and having the pet do everything for them which imo is lazy.
    ^ this.

    Before Mordor I never quested with my pet on my lm cause imo there was no need for it and even with Mordor I still only use my pet like half the time. As such my playstyle on my lm is run a red-yellow hybrid, pull a group of mobs together > hit bane flare (with an unimbued swap book for extra targets) > hit Ancient Craft (with the trait from yellow to buff it further) > then lighting storm. If anything is alive after that I'll usually hit a Sticky Gourd and/or Ring of Fire (which is one fo my favourite skills and I have never had any lag issues with). Yes, half the time I will have to hit a quick Wisdom to save myself from dying and have in fact died numerous times questing in Mordor when it bugged out (applied the cooldown but didn't give the heal) but to me that is half the fun of it And ofc half the time I will quest in yellow-red as I cbf traiting back after raiding

    So as such it makes no sense for me to trait a line that buffs something I rarely use. But different strokes for different folks and all that
    Last edited by Mirillin; Apr 16 2018 at 09:00 AM. Reason: Typos

  15. #15
    Digaloo may or may not be a troll but I generally agree with everything he says about blue line LM.

    I also agree although red is demonstrably weaker against landscape mobs at most level ranges it gives more player involvement and can be more fun and less lazy for many people.

    I am not one of them - I prefer blue.

  16. #16
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    Pre-Mordor, I ran red/yellow line with no pet because it was easy enough without it. In Mordor, I still run red/yellow but with a pet, usually the bear. Pull a group (maybe Blinding Flash on one tough mob so I can deal with him later), Storm Lore to stun them, Ancient Craft, Lightning Storm. Sticky Gourd if anything is still standing. If things get unpleasant, use the bear taunt to pull the toughest guy off me while I mop up the rest. It even works on bosses. I soloed all the Mordor hidden threats this weekend that way, though a couple were a near thing.

    I haven't run blue line in... ever, I think. Just don't like having an NPC do all the work.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MithrielWielder View Post
    And how do you get your sic em animals to attack ? Mine just stand around doing nothing. I cast for defense hoping some of the mobs will attack the animals instead of me.
    They will also attack any mob that hits you.
    Ujest - 115 Lore-master, Opun Tia - 95 Warden, Veneur - 75 Hunter, Cneasai - 61 Minstrel, plus alts and mules
    Officer, Pipeweed and Ale, Arkenstone (formerly Friends of Frodo, Vilya)

  18. #18
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    I switched from Red to Blue Line part of the way through Udun and have never looked back. I too use the Onyx Lynx. I tried using the Eagle a few times but was such a PITA as his control circle was always over my shoulder and he'd get selected as the target. I had to jigger the view to prevent that. For a mob of 115s I will start off with a Lightning Storm and then invoke Sic 'Em, throwing Sticky Gourds, etc. I am not afraid of mixing it up with Staff Strike and Staff Sweeps. Even Hidden Threats are easy enough to take out. I will also invoke my Herbalist Skirmish Soldier if necessary.
    It is logical, in view of the times in which we live. But to be logical is not to be right, and nothing on God's earth could ever make it right!
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  19. #19
    Maybe they're just tired of one-shotting everything in blue? :P I tend to roll blue lore masters all the time for farming LP, but get bored of one-shotting everything and delete them around lvl 20 :P

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by istvana View Post
    Digaloo may or may not be a troll but I generally agree with everything he says about blue line LM.

    I also agree although red is demonstrably weaker against landscape mobs at most level ranges it gives more player involvement and can be more fun and less lazy for many people.
    Good point. Some players like the game to be difficult, requiring lots of hard fighting on their part.

    I, on the other hand, am an old woman with slow reflexes and I'm chiefly interested in the story. I like to do any necessary fighting without breaking a sweat. So all my LMs have blue* Onyx Lynx.**

    _____
    *Actually, they're dark grey.
    **The plural of Lynx is Lynx.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandolf_TheOld View Post
    They will also attack any mob that hits you.
    And there's a "Command Pet" skill that makes them all attack your target. Apparently you get this skill along with "Sic 'em," when you reach the bottom of the blue tree.
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  22. #22
    No one mentions the eagle here?

    Last night after I finished defeating a boss mob in Barad Dur, there were two guards running toward me (normal), and one patrolling troll found me too (signature). That’s when the 10 min cd revival really helped! Or I’ll have to fight through the whole dungeon to the last chambers again.

    That’t why I use the eagle. Mainly to prevent me to die half way to the quests. And in blue line the eagle can do 1/3 to 1/2 my own damage.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightGatherer View Post
    No one mentions the eagle here?

    Last night after I finished defeating a boss mob in Barad Dur, there were two guards running toward me (normal), and one patrolling troll found me too (signature). That’s when the 10 min cd revival really helped! Or I’ll have to fight through the whole dungeon to the last chambers again.

    That’t why I use the eagle. Mainly to prevent me to die half way to the quests. And in blue line the eagle can do 1/3 to 1/2 my own damage.
    My main used the eagle briefly, went back to the lynx. It's been long enough ago that I don't remember why I didn't like it.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by LightGatherer View Post
    No one mentions the eagle here?

    Last night after I finished defeating a boss mob in Barad Dur, there were two guards running toward me (normal), and one patrolling troll found me too (signature). That’s when the 10 min cd revival really helped! Or I’ll have to fight through the whole dungeon to the last chambers again.

    That’t why I use the eagle. Mainly to prevent me to die half way to the quests. And in blue line the eagle can do 1/3 to 1/2 my own damage.
    Tried eagle a few times.

    Pros
    Rez but I don't die that often. Normal rez in place once every 2 hours or so is fine.
    Hp better than lynx
    Interrupts casting
    +1 level higher means more bpe/resists

    Cons
    No AOE
    Position above shoulder gets in way
    Very low dps relative to lynx (big factor here on obtaining and maintaining aggro)
    Lynx turns stealthy which removes a lot of pet pathing problems.

    So, not bad but worse than lynx overall except in special situations.


    Just my experience

  25. #25
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    Before the question about no one mentioning the Eagle, I had already mentioned it three posts above the question and noted the positioning above the shoulder as a problem.
    It is logical, in view of the times in which we live. But to be logical is not to be right, and nothing on God's earth could ever make it right!
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