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  1. #1

    Exclamation Is it the end for LOTRO's Mac version?

    Mac is on its way of allowing only 64-bits applications. For now, users get a warning saying that the app they are using is not optimized and it opens fine, but eventually, this will be not the case, as stated here:

    "At some unspecified time in the future, the operating system will end its support for 32-bit technology… meaning those apps that haven’t been updated just won’t work.

    That time, mind you, is not tomorrow, but the company’s hoping that this messaging will help light a fire under users and developers to upgrade before that day comes. Says the company on its help page, “To ensure that the apps you purchase are as advanced as the Mac you run them on, all future Mac software will eventually be required to be 64-bit."
    https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/11/ap...t-app-support/

    Maybe it's time for that 64-bit version of LOTRO. We know Mac users aren't a big portion of the players but not having that portion might be bad for business.

  2. #2
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    I wonder how this is going to work out. There's got to be a ton of games that are not going 64 that play on Mac.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    I wonder how this is going to work out. There's got to be a ton of games that are not going 64 that play on Mac.

    Particularly legacy games that may still be popular. There are people around who, say, like to take a break from what they've usually been playing, and rerun something like Baldur's Gate, or early editions of Civilisation. Looks like another case of Apple being too hip for its own good.

  4. #4
    If you care about gaming, particularly when Apple transitions away from x86 processors in the future, you should not be using a Mac.

  5. #5
    Just don't upgrade to the next version of the OS if you don't have to. I'm still running on Sierra and everything is fine. OS upgrades don't give that much advantage to me so I'm good with that.
    Besides that, if you game a lot purchasing a windows machine might be very beneficial... sure a lot cheaper.

  6. #6
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    Leave it to apple. One reason why i will never get istuff.
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  7. #7
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    This is a hell of a thing to ask of developers. I'm a developer myself. To resolve this means porting (minimally) to a 64-bit launcher and client. Still...

    To those who say "why are you on a Mac?". What a rude question. My employer picks the machine I use. I travel for work. When I play LotRO away from home, I don't have a choice. Please keep rude comments to yourself.

    To any BLUE NAMES: What, if any, plans do you have to port to 64-bit? (Hi, @Cardovan!)


    Warm regards and sympathies,
    Gloimli @ ex-Windfola

  8. #8
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    Mac is linux so I want to believe someone will make an app to emulate 32bit. No worries. =P
    I amar prestar aen. Han mathon ne nen. Han mathon ned cae. A han noston ned gwilith.
    Palenen - Elendilmir - The royal gem of Arnor - "May you 'Jingle Jangle' into the West."

  9. #9
    There are a number of ways around this. If you have space you could partition your ssd/hd and install an earlier version of Mac OS along with lotro on there and restart into that partition when playing. You could also install onto an external ssd/hd and do the same. You could also run boot camp and install a windows version or the app could be updated but doubtful. All a bit of a nusience but doable.

  10. #10
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    Virtualbox could be a solution.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    I wonder how this is going to work out. There's got to be a ton of games that are not going 64 that play on Mac.
    A) Badly

    B) Macs have games?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoBasilisk View Post
    If you care about gaming, particularly when Apple transitions away from x86 processors in the future, you should not be using a Mac.
    Apple tried to run things with the PowerPC architecture, but they switched to Intel. As Intel's current architecture is basically a 64 bit extension of the x86 architecture, so I highly doubt Intel will ever go away from that instruction set (which is what the architecture is actually referring to). Which also means that x86 may refer to a 64 bit machine in the right context (like this one).

    So unless you think Apple's going to try to make an ARM Mac, you're stuck with Intel CPUs because there is no other CPU design outside of ARM and Intel's that would work well for PC style gaming.

    Quote Originally Posted by BINKLEY1 View Post
    To those who say "why are you on a Mac?". What a rude question. My employer picks the machine I use. I travel for work. When I play LotRO away from home, I don't have a choice. Please keep rude comments to yourself.
    It's actually a very relevant question because Apple keeps showing that they do not care about making Mac gamers viable, which follows the exact same stance they have historically.

    Why should a game company support a platform that keeps being hostile towards gamers?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post

    B) Macs have games?


    As far as I know, and that is not much, Macs do not have games. However, there are games that play on Macs. if LOTRO does drop it's compatibility with Macs, I have a feeling it won't be the only one.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    So unless you think Apple's going to try to make an ARM Mac, you're stuck with Intel CPUs because there is no other CPU design outside of ARM and Intel's that would work well for PC style gaming.
    My understanding is that Apple is planning on switching to a 64 bit ARM processor for all their Macs. Since ARM processors are RISCs (Reduced Instruction Set Chips), Apple must be going to not include 32 bit instruction set support in their new RISC chip. ARM processors can't run Intel applications like Lotro. You would need a 32 bit Intel emulator.

    You probably have something like this:
    ARM processor --> Mac OS --> Intel processor emulator --> Windows --> Lotro

    This situation is very common in software development. You want to update an Android application. You run a cell phone hardware emulator which runs the Android OS which runs the application that you are working on. You can get the applications done before the prototype cell phone hardware is ready.

    I can remember doing cell phone applications using Microsoft Visual Studio on a Windows PC. The production system would spit out the native code for the cell phone. I would load that into a cell phone emulator to test. You would start testing in the Visual Studio environment. Switch to the emulator. Finally put in the real cell phone when they became available.

    For really demanding application like some games. It may not work very well to add a native hardware emulator which the native OS between something like Mac OS and the application
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    My understanding is that Apple is planning on switching to a 64 bit ARM processor for all their Macs. Since ARM processors are RISCs (Reduced Instruction Set Chips), Apple must be going to not include 32 bit instruction set support in their new RISC chip. ARM processors can't run Intel applications like Lotro. You would need a 32 bit Intel emulator.
    Yes, new Macs will no longer have Intel processors in as little as 2 years.
    https://9to5mac.com/2018/04/02/repor...-macs-by-2020/

    It is hard to say what the exact impact will be (depends on how much effort Apple puts into backwards-compatibility), but chances are that it will not be a good thing for someone trying to run something like LOTRO.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    My understanding is that Apple is planning on switching to a 64 bit ARM processor for all their Macs. Since ARM processors are RISCs (Reduced Instruction Set Chips), Apple must be going to not include 32 bit instruction set support in their new RISC chip. ARM processors can't run Intel applications like Lotro. You would need a 32 bit Intel emulator.
    I'm betting Apple is probably trying to get the Macs to run iOS and move away from OSX. Apple is, after all, a hardware company and the biggest thing they can do optimize their software side is drop OS-X in favor of iOS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    You probably have something like this:
    ARM processor --> Mac OS --> Intel processor emulator --> Windows --> Lotro
    That's not necessarily correct because Windows IoT Core runs on a Raspberry Pi (which has an ARM CPU), which indicates that at least some ARM code exists for the OS.

    I don't know if that's a different kernel from Win10, same kernel (as the Xbox One OS is basically a different distribution of Win10 specifically for the Xbox), or if there's an actual ARM Win10 version that's Microsoft is sitting on.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoBasilisk View Post
    Yes, new Macs will no longer have Intel processors in as little as 2 years.
    https://9to5mac.com/2018/04/02/repor...-macs-by-2020/

    It is hard to say what the exact impact will be (depends on how much effort Apple puts into backwards-compatibility), but chances are that it will not be a good thing for someone trying to run something like LOTRO.
    Which may also be the one thing that finally kills off Macs because Apple can't handle the fact that Microsoft wrote a better OS for their hardware than they did.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palenen View Post
    Mac is linux so I want to believe someone will make an app to emulate 32bit. No worries. =P
    It sort of already does. The problem with both virtualization and emulation is that it doesn't allow direct hardware access, which is what games are keen on for graphics performance. Your best bet for MacOS 10.14, which is scheduled to be released in October 2018, and is rumored to no longer support Mac 32-bit apps, is to run Wine (there is a commercial version of that for Mac) and run the WINDOWS version of the game. But this will bring about a big slew of problems on its own, as it may need a little bit of computer knowledge.

    In any case, you don't HAVE to upgrade to 10.14 immediately, so you probably have till 2019 some time for SSG to release a 64bit Mac client. If you get a brand new mac for Christmas 2018 though, it may come preloaded with 10.14, and then you are out of luck....

    Options:

    1) SSG hurries up and creates a 64-bit client for MacOS. (best possible solution)
    2) You run the Windows version in Wine (or the Mac commercial version of it, which costs money)
    3) You bootcamp Windows in multiboot and run the Windows version.

    Best case would be that SSG develops a 64-bit mac client some time before October 2018. They have time.
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    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  17. #17
    Lotro will definitely have to update or lose this platform. Though they still have a few years yet. Apple is starting with the MacApp store first but eventually support will be dropped for all apps at the OS level. They've done it already on iOS. A lot of good but unupdated programs went out the door with it too.

  18. #18
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    :-(

    I was about to ask you about that Mac warning, but you've already replied...
    Unless SSG develops a x64 version of LOTRO then I won't be able to play it... No way I'm techy enough to try the alternatives you offered! :-(
    And I just bought HD and went VIP!!!
    At least I did not buy Mordor. Had planned it though...
    - sobs and cries -

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post

    Which may also be the one thing that finally kills off Macs because Apple can't handle the fact that Microsoft wrote a better OS for their hardware than they did.
    Please define what you mean by "better". In my definition, OSX is better than Windows.

    BTW: Macs are doing fine, thank you (https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/02...rcent-q4-2017/).

  20. #20
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