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  1. #1

    Quick Fix for Balance Issues

    I’ve read lots of posts on the growing disparity between Freeps and Creeps and have seen detailed and potentially resource intensive suggested fixes that will likely never be considered. As the game continues to expand with ever bettter items, legacies, gear for the Freeps, maintaining any hope of balance gets more and more elusive. I particularly agree with the suggestions that a bit more uniformity of gear would be quite helpful, but that will likely keep Freeps out who really want to use their nifty new gear.

    Thus, my very simple suggestion that may take very few resources for the devs to consider: use the Audacity table to encourage Freeps to use the Moors Gear and to add a bit more defense to the Creeps.

    Currently, audacity damage reduction is a flat 40% for Creeps and 30% reduction for Freeps. I suggest you make it:

    Freeps: 15% + 1% per point to create a range of 16 - 40% damage reduction as they blend or add audacity gear. This is both a carrot and a stick as It will be a meaningful improvement over the current reduction but only if they use the Moors gear.

    Creeps: 25% + 1% per Audacity (range of 26-50% reduction) to improve the defense of most Creeps while adding to a rewards system that encourages active and frequent participation.

    It should be fairly easy to try on Bullroarer and I will be happy to help test drive it on my various toons.
    Aakvanark/Corwelleon

  2. #2
    So make it work like it used to work. That didn't work.
    Phrasing! Doesn't anybody do phrasing anymore?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    653
    I'd say you are looking in the right direction. Expect resistance from the Free Peoples.

    On the subject of Audacity, I'd see it completely removed from pvp.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian.S View Post
    I'd say you are looking in the right direction. Expect resistance from the Free Peoples.

    On the subject of Audacity, I'd see it completely removed from pvp.
    What’s not to like about 10% more damage reduction for the Freeps? Oh, yeah,the need to use different gear... Now it gets a little more interesting.

    Trying to craft a win-win while preserving maximum flexibility for all to make the decision that works best for them. Extra damage reduction on both sides would help make the fights a little longer - but I suspect many Freeps will stay with outside Gear which would help the Creeps a little (and they, frankly need it). Not sure if 10% extra is the right factor, but it would be a great place to start from.
    Aakvanark/Corwelleon

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Corwelleon View Post
    What’s not to like about 10% more damage reduction for the Freeps? Oh, yeah,the need to use different gear... Now it gets a little more interesting.

    Trying to craft a win-win while preserving maximum flexibility for all to make the decision that works best for them. Extra damage reduction on both sides would help make the fights a little longer - but I suspect many Freeps will stay with outside Gear which would help the Creeps a little (and they, frankly need it). Not sure if 10% extra is the right factor, but it would be a great place to start from.
    Isn't the win win to apply stat caps to freep to control their dps, health and mitigations, create an algorithm that turns those into DPS while under attack, do the same for creeps, then assuming creeps value is lower, increase their values until they match freeps? And then as each update comes, plug those number into the algorithm, figure out the % increase, and then boost creeps accordingly?

    Instead of doing it half assed backwards, which is what audacity does. Audacity still requires you to figure out that "balance", but instead of increasing creeps, it attempts to decrease freeps. Then when an update comes you have to figure out the increase to freeps, figure out the increase to creeps, boost creeps AND reduce freeps. It's governmental in its inefficiency.
    Phrasing! Doesn't anybody do phrasing anymore?

  6. #6
    whenever Turbine made the mistake of using alternate gear/skill sets for gameplay, It's been pretty bad results, i.e.epic battles and mounted combat.

    theres been countless suggestions re: balance, most completely valid and workable.

    SSG has already said they will not restrict freep pve gear in the ettenmoors, if they did there ya go i agree most the problem solved.too bad it wont happen

    scaling creeps is so much easier than implementing a completely new dynamic in an instance.creating new gear sets etc etc.

    I would guess all it would take at minimum would be dev time comprable to a fast pass each update to scale creeps to the latest freep stat bloat.

    they dont have the resources to even toggle the old +5% morale and damage per update.that would of put me at maybe 250k hp morale by now? that would not be too far off but they dont, so.......
    .

    Mortem Tyrannis

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by subadar View Post
    whenever Turbine made the mistake of using alternate gear/skill sets for gameplay, It's been pretty bad results, i.e.epic battles and mounted combat.

    theres been countless suggestions re: balance, most completely valid and workable.

    SSG has already said they will not restrict freep pve gear in the ettenmoors, if they did there ya go i agree most the problem solved.too bad it wont happen

    scaling creeps is so much easier than implementing a completely new dynamic in an instance.creating new gear sets etc etc.

    I would guess all it would take at minimum would be dev time comprable to a fast pass each update to scale creeps to the latest freep stat bloat.

    they dont have the resources to even toggle the old +5% morale and damage per update.that would of put me at maybe 250k hp morale by now? that would not be too far off but they dont, so.......
    are we guilty of looking at this from a 'what makes the play good' viewpoint ? SSG primarily think of 'what makes us profitable and viable' I'm guessing , and then playability comes second. So is it reasonable to assume that their mindset may be that high end players are spending lots of money on cap content and raiding etc as well as some moors time on their top end gear at the end of each cycle ? If this is where they assess their main revenue is , why would they change it ? Any counter to that argument may take the form of saying casuals will slip away from pve content (cancel vip, purchase fewer LP) and not turn up in the moors due to a second-rate status of not being equipped with all the raid goodies , consequently making them less competitive. But if SSG assess that the casuals that slip away are the few and the raiders are the many suddenly their approach looks rational. The decision facing creeps and casuals/non-raiders are similar :- either put up and shut up , or give in and join the raiders set paying all the money and try to get the play that you actually want inbetween the gearing cycle.....if you want to win , be a raider....that's where all the good gear is and there ain't no other way to get it. (are these raiders doing it because they love the content , or just because they must have the best gear ?). the repercussions of such strategic decisions can be felt in the moors as well as across the core game. my outlook is that I want to play the core game, solo and kin stuff, whilst being able to gear up my alts and take them to the moors for decent competitive balanced play....that's what i'll pay for , and I used to spend a lot to do it. f2p now so gaming is real cheap atm.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    125
    You kind of hit the nail on the head in a roundabout way, Freep gear whoring is what has killed off pvp, they are either using OP gear, which is BAD for any sort of level playing field of PVP or grinding for it, which is also bad for PVP action.

    Gear that doesn't wildly improve every update is THE ONLY way you will ever see any sort of improvement in the action in Moors.

    But then the mask slips and you give vent to the all prevailing disease thats wiped out PVP ....''whilst being able to gear up my alts and take them to the moors for decent competitive balanced play''....you yourself KNOW whats wrong with PVP but admit to participating in its downfall.


    FREEPS GEAR WHORING HAS KILLED PVP


    And thats about it.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by SavileRow View Post
    You kind of hit the nail on the head in a roundabout way, Freep gear whoring is what has killed off pvp, they are either using OP gear, which is BAD for any sort of level playing field of PVP or grinding for it, which is also bad for PVP action.

    Gear that doesn't wildly improve every update is THE ONLY way you will ever see any sort of improvement in the action in Moors.

    But then the mask slips and you give vent to the all prevailing disease thats wiped out PVP ....''whilst being able to gear up my alts and take them to the moors for decent competitive balanced play''....you yourself KNOW whats wrong with PVP but admit to participating in its downfall.


    FREEPS GEAR WHORING HAS KILLED PVP


    And thats about it.
    I see what you are reading into what I typed but it is not what I intended. that's not your fault. I have never done the current abyss raid once, on any of my 6 alts. most of my alts are appallingly badly geared , and none of them has the decent essences, raid gear ,or runes, other than the 76 ones. they are not 't2' ready and are 2nd rate and uncompetitive in the moors. Why ? my kin has shrunk with the falling player base but I am still there because they are friends. So we don't raid. The moors has gone quiet on Landy so I don't go there because its quiet and I am not raid/Bis geared which is what it is balanced against. the creeps that are moaning about overpowered freeps are moaning about the raid slotted guys. I agree with their viewpoint . So I cancelled my vip and bought the really cheap current update . I am currently free to play dribbling along through the game logging in chatting to kinnies doing some content and generally apathetic towards the game waiting for improvements. But I cant really complain because its free. I hope SSG is getting all the money it wants from raider targeted play. So I don't want to go to the moors and outclass all the creeps for a faceroll. I want to go there with the current gear that makes me competitive as stated. simply put either grade me up to raid status and balance to that or peg them down to me. freeps fall into 2 categories ...max geared and the others. that will be the core of whats wrong with moors until it is addressed (individual class issues aside ). rant off...over and out.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by Dranak123 View Post
    I see what you are reading into what I typed but it is not what I intended. that's not your fault. I have never done the current abyss raid once, on any of my 6 alts. most of my alts are appallingly badly geared , and none of them has the decent essences, raid gear ,or runes, other than the 76 ones. they are not 't2' ready and are 2nd rate and uncompetitive in the moors. Why ? my kin has shrunk with the falling player base but I am still there because they are friends. So we don't raid. The moors has gone quiet on Landy so I don't go there because its quiet and I am not raid/Bis geared which is what it is balanced against. the creeps that are moaning about overpowered freeps are moaning about the raid slotted guys. I agree with their viewpoint . So I cancelled my vip and bought the really cheap current update . I am currently free to play dribbling along through the game logging in chatting to kinnies doing some content and generally apathetic towards the game waiting for improvements. But I cant really complain because its free. I hope SSG is getting all the money it wants from raider targeted play. So I don't want to go to the moors and outclass all the creeps for a faceroll. I want to go there with the current gear that makes me competitive as stated. simply put either grade me up to raid status and balance to that or peg them down to me. freeps fall into 2 categories ...max geared and the others. that will be the core of whats wrong with moors until it is addressed (individual class issues aside ). rant off...over and out.
    Fair enough, at least we agree that moors is un-fun and unplayable at the moment, probably for the foreseeable future too. You seem to be where I'm at regarding the game, there's nothing for me anymore, Raids are a dead self defeating end, and end up with an ever decreasing pug plea for people who've already done it to turn it into a farm for their alts. Gear inspection Nazi's limiting inclusivity, fear of failure, fear of defeat, thats the current FREEP mindset at the moment, hell, not even at the moment, it's been that way since ToO raid, probably before too, I'd bet Rift was like this too when new, before my time. Freeps forget that new raids are ALWAYS completed first with OLD gear, yes FREEP FAILURE potential says a lot about where the game is snapping its spine at the moment.

    Before the lazy retort comes from Raid Farmers that I'm just sour that I don't get into raids, thats false too, I've not x'd up for a pug since about 2014 when I was dragged into an OD by kinnies.

    Thats just the way it is.

  11. #11
    I gave them the quick (add 6 more corruption slots). They decided to listen to liars and obfustcaters and tried to do of the hard way (and failed).
    Team Milt.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRabbitfoot View Post
    I gave them the quick (add 6 more corruption slots). They decided to listen to liars and obfustcaters and tried to do of the hard way (and failed).
    I absolutely agree that added corruption slots would help offset the ever-increasing skill set, traits etc of the freeps. Not being a programmer, though, I’m not sure if that is quick and easy or a major recoding. It would be nice if a Developer weighed in.

    The “Fast Passes” update was indeed welcome and fixed lots of basic things, but should have been the first salvo, and not the final outcome. A little TLC with each expansion would be nice.
    Aakvanark/Corwelleon

  13. #13

    first and formost

    before they equal or balance pvmp dmg, etc they need to move the pvmp on its own dedicated server. thus better 40v40, or 20v20's i know 7 other that would drop a dime back on this game to dust off there old chars from 9 years ago. but laggggggg
    the moors, share same servers as dungeons and other things i do believe

 

 

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