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Thread: Fiddle Forum

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolaan View Post
    Studio time and paying a musician (those darn musicians, you gotta keep them indoors and feed them *every day!*) would be more expensive than synth/modding.
    I actually have no problem with them spending some money on the music community. Granted we are not a main part of the game, but neither was PvMP and yet they have dumped money and time into it, they even got a whole new map. We have gotten a stage or two and one horrible instrument and one that may yet have some potential if they give it a full three octaves so no complaints from me if we get a little more put into it. I didn't like that some of my vip money went towards a new map for the PvMP folks so they can deal with it if we get a little attention in my opinion.
    Fincin of Landroval
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  2. #52

    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Emere View Post
    I actually have no problem with them spending some money on the music community. Granted we are not a main part of the game, but neither was PvMP and yet they have dumped money and time into it, they even got a whole new map. We have gotten a stage or two and one horrible instrument and one that may yet have some potential if they give it a full three octaves so no complaints from me if we get a little more put into it. I didn't like that some of my vip money went towards a new map for the PvMP folks so they can deal with it if we get a little attention in my opinion.
    On the one hand - I have zero argument with this personally. The music community has certainly been acknowledged as a vital and appreciated part of the community overall, cf. the cooperation we get with Weatherstock and Winterstock.

    On the other, I appreciate that this is a business, under new ownership with new investors that expect a return. Spending coding hours on synth/modded tones being cheaper than hiring in a live musician and booking studio hours is not a saving I'd begrudge the Stoners.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolaan View Post
    On the one hand - I have zero argument with this personally. The music community has certainly been acknowledged as a vital and appreciated part of the community overall, cf. the cooperation we get with Weatherstock and Winterstock.

    On the other, I appreciate that this is a business, under new ownership with new investors that expect a return. Spending coding hours on synth/modded tones being cheaper than hiring in a live musician and booking studio hours is not a saving I'd begrudge the Stoners.
    Many of us kept vip to support the game without doing much more than make and play songs in game though and I suspect many still do. I finally dropped mine since I had no intention on another gear grind with Mordor so had several months of my money supporting the game without getting anything in return other than the music and vip mailbox. None the less, you do make a valid point and the music community time and time again suggested ways to increase revenue off of the music community in order to get more work done on the music system.
    Fincin of Landroval
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emere View Post
    I actually have no problem with them spending some money on the music community. Granted we are not a main part of the game, but neither was PvMP and yet they have dumped money and time into it, they even got a whole new map. We have gotten a stage or two and one horrible instrument and one that may yet have some potential if they give it a full three octaves so no complaints from me if we get a little more put into it. I didn't like that some of my vip money went towards a new map for the PvMP folks so they can deal with it if we get a little attention in my opinion.
    Its because as tiny as pvp players are in this game its SIGNIFICANTLY higher than any kind of music community put together... Even on one server. Many servers have hundreds of active players playing pvp. Most have hundred per day visiting the area daily. Meanwhile there might be few people doing music per day on some servers. Thats the difference. Ad much as you like to hype events like weatherstock thing is on most populated servers that is norm action every evening and when servers got merged every server had 2v2-3v3 raid fights. Meaning good 60+ players per side every night.

    Considering pvp makes them significantly more revenua its safe to say with logic that investint resources into that makes way more sense than putting money into music that is hobby of very tiny population of the game.
    Last edited by siipperi; Mar 12 2018 at 08:35 AM.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolderbrook View Post
    Fer what it's worth—
    This ain't a perfect fix, but here's a way t' eliminate th' scratches an clunks from yer fiddle parts:

    Open up th' .abc file in whatever text editor y' may have (Notepad, TextEdit, InDesign... whatever). I know that this makes some folks start sweatin right away, but this'll be pretty painless, really.

    Fer a solo piece, use yer "Find an Replace ALL" function t' replace th' followin 3 things (just what's b'tween th' brackets): Replace [ C, ] with [ C ]; replace [ ^C, ] with [ ^C ]; an replace [ D, ] with [ D ].

    Then save th' file. (Y' might want t' "Save As" with th' title Songname_Fiddle or somethin, t' keep yer original in case y' want t' still play it on a Clarinet or whatever.)

    What this does is replace th' 3 bottom notes, which is where them sound effect things is, with th' same notes a octave higher. If it's a single melody line that goes that low, ye'll get some awkward octave jumps in yer melody as a result, but it will sound better than b'fore. If ye're playin a solo that's got chords in it, y' may have a hard time tellin that anything's changed b'sides losin them sound effects.

    Y' can do th' same thing with a multi-part song, but ye'll probly have t' copy an paste just th' part ye're convertin t' Fiddle into a new text document, then make them changes an then copy an paste th' new stuff back over th' old notes.

    Hope this helps a few folks =)

    This information has been invaluable for me! I find that converting a fiddle part as I would a clari (and no longer being afraid of low register), then filtering it per your instructions results in very nice sounding pieces indeed. Things already sound much better than my earlier attempts to simply shift everything upward a bunch. Kudos to you!

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Its because as tiny as pvp players are in this game its SIGNIFICANTLY higher than any kind of music community put together... Even on one server. Many servers have hundreds of active players playing pvp. Most have hundred per day visiting the area daily. Meanwhile there might be few people doing music per day on some servers. Thats the difference. Ad much as you like to hype events like weatherstock thing is on most populated servers that is norm action every evening and when servers got merged every server had 2v2-3v3 raid fights. Meaning good 60+ players per side every night.

    Considering pvp makes them significantly more revenua its safe to say with logic that investint resources into that makes way more sense than putting money into music that is hobby of very tiny population of the game.
    To those who don't belong to the music community it might seem like it's only a few people playing since they probably only come across a random musician/band once in a while when they visit towns, but it's actually a quite big community There are concerts every day and there are a huge amount of bands playing regular weekly concerts, and many different weekly events that include music across all servers Also, the music community doesn't only include the bands, it also includes all those dear people who always comes to listen
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

  7. #57
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    The Lonely Mountain Fiddle and The Sprightly Fiddle are barter at the spring festival! they sound really nice
    Pontin Level 115 Hobbit Burglar Kinship Second Breakfast Crickhollow Server. Staff member of the Lord of the Rings Discord Server, and Owner of Middle-Earth Lore discord.
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  8. #58
    I normally dont respond to the thread here since most of the times my opinion has been voiced by others in a way that reflects how i feel about it. However. Their are a couple of things I need to say.

    1. Devs. you messed up. Stand tall. Step up and admit it.
    2. The only instrument in the game that takes a year to get all part of it is the Fiddle. Not cool.
    3. A fiddle is like a violin. Its supposed to have high pitches. If you want lower pitches add a Viola.
    4. Adding sound effects to a long awaited instrument that totally ruin it is a slap in the face to many of us who work hard at making music.
    5. PvP and Music is not a competition. Their are many who like either and or both.
    6. And finally. Why would you ask those who either rarely play music in game or those that play mainly PvP about music. Unless you plan on letting us use the Fiddle as a weapon, Updates concerning PvP should be discussed with those who are active in it, Updates to Music should be discussed with those who actually play music in the game.

    Sevonis

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzures View Post
    ...Unless you plan on letting us use the Fiddle as a weapon...

    Sevonis
    you already can, theres recipes for level 115 combat Fiddles
    Pontin Level 115 Hobbit Burglar Kinship Second Breakfast Crickhollow Server. Staff member of the Lord of the Rings Discord Server, and Owner of Middle-Earth Lore discord.
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  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Pontin_Finnberry View Post
    The Lonely Mountain Fiddle and The Sprightly Fiddle are barter at the spring festival! they sound really nice

    Hooray!!! Didn't have to wait forever for the Lonely Mountain Fiddle.

    Still wish it wasn't gated behind a festival... but that won't keep me from wrenching one out of the greedy paws of a spring festival vendor! haha

    I heard from someone that they aren't BOA either... so we could buy them for friends if we wanted or needed to. Or even trade instruments if someone in the band forgot theirs or didn't have it on them. That's good!!
    "Pink makes EVERYTHING better! Cept Orcs or gobbies. Nothin' can make them better!"
    Tearna Quickfoot, Hobbit minstrel on Landroval
    Lonely Mountain Band

  11. #61
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    Grand, if I want to equip my band for optimized performances, I will only have to earn 1400 leaves over 5 servers...
    Fincin of Landroval
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    Hugger of Bunnys

  12. #62

    Dear Dev’s

    Dear Dev’s

    Job well done!

    You sat behind your computers knowing what was coming out at the festival. You let us complain and listened to our rants. My hat is off to you.

    Now it is our turn on find and create songs that will sound as good with these two new fiddles.
    I was absolutely tickled to hear “Cannon in D” on the Lonley Mountain fiddle. Now to find some songs that are a little more sprightly for the other fiddle.

    Just want to know are fiddles going to be only available at festivals or is there going to be another way to receive these fiddles?

    Student Fiddle, the laugh is on us!!!! Well done Dev’s, well done!
    Corn Is Lore appropiate!!
    .

  13. #63
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    I make my reply to this thread, not because my views have not already be voiced, but to add them to the chorus.

    I voiced my concerns when the fiddles were still on Bullroarer, and was happy to see some of those concerns were addressed when most of the noises would be removed from the Lonely Mountain, Trusty Traveller, and Spritely Fiddles with the latest update. Thank you.

    During our Open Stage time after concert on Thursday, I heard some of the most breathtakingly beautiful music I've ever heard in game coming from the Lonely Mountain Fiddle. Seriously, jaw-dropping. This is what we were hoping for... but it saddens me that there will be so many songs that could benefit from one of the fiddles that just won't work with such a limited range.

    The lack of that lower octave of useable notes is keenly felt. I'm one of those players who creates and notates original music, have sometimes notated music by ear, transcribed sheet music by hand, used other music programs like MuseScore to transcribe sheet music into midis, can hand edit ABC code when needed... but I'm slow at it, so most the time I use a ready made midi and run it through Maestro because I just don't have enough time to be doing it all by hand. I can do a lot of "wrangling" of keys and octaves in that little gem of a program, but sometimes it just isn't possible to bring a part into the right place to adequately accommodate even a 3 octave instrument! Please, for the love of music, find some way to fill in at LEAST half of that lower octave.

    In the absence of the fiddle, I have used other instruments to approximate the sound of a violin, sometimes the flute or clarinet, or harp for pizzicato. Surprisingly the pibgorn's top octave stands in pretty well for the high pitched sustained violins... but only if it is accompanied by a full range of other instruments and turned down as quiet as it will go! I would much rather have a high pitched fiddle instead. A sustained bass instrument like cello would also be a boon.

    If synthesizing those lower notes is the only thing SSG can afford to do right now, then I say go for it on a new Basic fiddle with a short attack and decay so it will work for both simple fiddle melodies and long sustained (arco) chords of a strings section. If it sounds ok then you can work with confidence on filling in the vibrato, staccato, and pizzicato versions.
    Diamond of Gladden & Landroval.
    Director of Eriador Music Society of Landroval.

  14. #64
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    Ok. Now that I have the two new fiddles, time for me to make some comments.

    First, I am very annoyed that I was FORCED to endure the festival content in order to get the fiddles. It meant that I was made to sit through 6 hours of doing something I don't enjoy in order to get to doing what I wanted to do in the first place.

    Now to the fiddles themselves. The one I was looking forward to was the sprightly one, as it would have the quickest notes. However, I find that there is next to no sustain on the notes... This means it's ENTIRELY staccato. More, I find that it can't play notes QUICKLY enough. For example, when trying to play The Devil Went Down to Georgia, it can't play the fiddle part quickly enough, and drops a great many notes. Then, at the end of the rapid fiddle part, there's a long sustained note that THIS fiddle cannot do. All in all, I find it to be almost entirely useless. 2/10.

    The other fiddle is better than either of the other two (Lonely Mountain, I think it is?). It sustains notes properly, and attacks notes... adequately. I would have liked it to attack notes a BIT quicker, but it's passable. THIS is the best of the fiddles. I'm giving it a 6/10, relative to other instruments.

    However, something I did notice was that it also dropped notes, usually ones above or below the register of the instrument. This is notable, because the student's fiddle made a lot of odd squawks, clunks and knocks. It's still a bit frustrating having notes dropped entirely, but silence is at least preferable to clunks and squawks.


    Here's hoping they continue to tweak this instrument, it has great potential.

    (EDIT)

    Some examples of what I mean. This first video is The Devil Went Down to Georgia. First, it's played on bagpipe, so you can hear the speed of the notes, and also that there are sustained notes. Next, I play it on the sprightly fiddle... which SHOULD be ideal for this song. You will hear that it misses notes, it just can't play fast enough. Also, it can't play the sustained notes. Second is the Lonely Mountain fiddle, which CAN play the notes fast enough, but they build so slowly that they're nearly inaudible. Also, the sustained note is rather loud. Finally, the Student's fiddle, which performs much like the Lonely Mountain one.

    https://youtu.be/stKB-lBGPeg

    Next, a couple of videos of songs that play pretty well, using the Lonely Mountain fiddle.

    https://youtu.be/-ZtsQDAavCo
    Across the Stars from Star Wars

    https://youtu.be/plcyo8zX66E
    Air on a G String
    Last edited by Tiamo; Mar 18 2018 at 02:39 PM.
    Skjald of Rohan, Minstrel, Captain of Rohan

    R.I.P NIDOR of Brandywine Server(1970-2012)

  15. #65
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    I don't have anything especially insightful to add to the discussion, but while I was testing out songs on the Lonely Mountain Fiddle I found Moonlight Sonata to be a good fit. Then I rotated the camera and saw this:






    One of the loveliest moments I've had in the game in a long time.

  16. #66
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    OMG! I'm so Happy! Thanks to Weeters for giving me the link for the Maestro update that Bruzo and others have been working on!
    If people don't know the link here it is!
    https://github.com/NikolaiVChr/maest...ses/tag/v2.3.4
    Needs windows to run. Click on the .msi file and install.....

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthCeltics View Post
    To help ease some concerns, I just wanted to let you know that we have been looking into other fiddle options. I've been in the process of pitching notes down to see how they sound, but it's very important to point out that the further you get from the base note (in this case G2) the more synthetic the note will sound.

    The student fiddle will remain as is, and the other sound effects might be added back in for anyone that wants them.

    A new basic fiddle would be offered in addition to the student fiddle and potentially offer 3 full octaves. The ranges on the other fiddles might also be extended down depending on the quality of sounds after pitch alteration.

    Because of the nature of the current swelling long notes, those can't have very loud note beginnings or else the middle of the notes would overpower everything else. This quieter attack makes them less than ideal for faster music. I do believe that the longer swelling notes have a purpose, however, so we are contemplating a different fiddle that would have a strong attack and long duration. This fiddle would hopefully be able to hold up volume-wise as both a long and short option.
    I have had a little time to try out the updated Maestro program. I am very happy to have that tool. After working on various songs for the last few days, I noticed that certain notes of the sprightly fiddle have a clicking sound. I eliminated instruments until I determined it was the Sprightly fiddle. I created a test file in Anvil Studios and brought it back into Maestro and determined that notes G4 and G4 sharp yield a click instead of a musical note. The notes above and below that, do play a musical note. I logged into the game to try some song files out and sure enough certain notes do yield a clicking sound instead of a musical note with the sprightly fiddle. I think I have narrowed it down to the G4 and G4 sharp mentioned above. I am not certain if other notes do this too, but I don't think so.

  18. #68
    If anyone have some abc files for fiddle, can you share them?
    Some lotr theme would be great

  19. #69
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    Just a heads up that with Update 22.1 I added pitched down notes to fill in the lowest register on the Sprightly and Lonely Mountain fiddles. The Student Fiddle remains the same (with sound effects). A new fiddle (Basic Fiddle) that uses the same notes as the Student Fiddle PLUS the pitched down notes (so no sound effects) has been added to Bards. Hopefully this will address many of the octave concerns.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthCeltics View Post
    Just a heads up that with Update 22.1 I added pitched down notes to fill in the lowest register on the Sprightly and Lonely Mountain fiddles. The Student Fiddle remains the same (with sound effects). A new fiddle (Basic Fiddle) that uses the same notes as the Student Fiddle PLUS the pitched down notes (so no sound effects) has been added to Bards. Hopefully this will address many of the octave concerns.

    Thank you so much for listening! Both to those demanding the lower register be notes and those who found some of the sounds (knocks in particular) on the student fiddle useful in some cases and leaving that as is! (Now we need an instrument bag... nay, a cart! ... to haul our instruments around. hehe)

    I've already heard some absolutely gorgeous music using what we had. It will only get better! So very pleased to be part of the Lotro music community!!!

    *Hobbity hugs*
    "Pink makes EVERYTHING better! Cept Orcs or gobbies. Nothin' can make them better!"
    Tearna Quickfoot, Hobbit minstrel on Landroval
    Lonely Mountain Band

  21. #71
    Thank you SSG and DarthCeltics.

    Just completed a quick test and verifying all but student fiddle has 3 octaves (restored?).

    The new Basic fiddle has three octaves, a faster attack than Lonely Mountain fiddle, no vibrato, and a slightly less but still noticeable volume increase(ramping up) with a sustained note.

    The volume of the Basic fiddle is quieter than a flute. Was this intentional? Just re-reading the update notes and noticed that this is in comparison to the upcoming Bardic fiddle.
    Just need verification on this quiet volume setting.

    Thank you from the Harlequins. 2300+ songs restored and just volume tweaks pending concert schedules.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthCeltics View Post
    Just a heads up that with Update 22.1 I added pitched down notes to fill in the lowest register on the Sprightly and Lonely Mountain fiddles. The Student Fiddle remains the same (with sound effects). A new fiddle (Basic Fiddle) that uses the same notes as the Student Fiddle PLUS the pitched down notes (so no sound effects) has been added to Bards. Hopefully this will address many of the octave concerns.
    Thank you so much for putting time into this. I can assure you the music community is thrilled. Now We'll just need Splik and company to update Maestro again. Does anyone know if a redo on Songbook or Band aid is in the works?

  23. #73
    Thank you for this. The Student fiddle is capable of some lovely notes, but nobody was using those sound effects and they got in the way of many songs. I do think that some volume issues should be ironed out and the fiddles could stand to have a slightly faster attack. Sustained notes sound great, but there are many songs that have notes going by too fast that we never get to the sustain, resulting in a "droning" noise because it's just a series of notes that never get there, and using the Sprightly Fiddle isn't the right solution. We need to get to those notes more quickly than the fiddles can currently offer. Perhaps the Bardic Fiddle will be its own solution, but I think the current ones could be tweaked a bit.

    To echo what others have said, musicians (who want to be prepared) have to carry around nearly two dozen instruments at all times. A newer storage solution is needed. We'll gladly pay money for it.
    Last edited by ZoneTripper; Apr 10 2018 at 11:51 PM.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthCeltics View Post
    Just a heads up that with Update 22.1 I added pitched down notes to fill in the lowest register on the Sprightly and Lonely Mountain fiddles. The Student Fiddle remains the same (with sound effects). A new fiddle (Basic Fiddle) that uses the same notes as the Student Fiddle PLUS the pitched down notes (so no sound effects) has been added to Bards. Hopefully this will address many of the octave concerns.
    Wonderful news! Thanks for listening to us, and thanks for your speedy action!
    Skjald of Rohan, Minstrel, Captain of Rohan

    R.I.P NIDOR of Brandywine Server(1970-2012)

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthCeltics View Post
    Just a heads up that with Update 22.1
    Thanks DarthCeltics and SSG.
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir


 

 
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