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  1. #1

    BUBBLES, HoTs, and Damage reductions.... oh my

    So I have been thinking about how to make RK healing comparable but keep it different from Mini healing... With the stat increase (bloat) damage is too high and bubbles/ HoT s are too small for RK to effectively heal. I generally see mini as a reactive healing class and RK as a proactive healing class... The following suggestions are to maintain the healing style differences of the 2 classes and have a number of assumptions...

    assumption 1: There are only expected to be 2 primary healing classes (mini and rk) and other classes (cappy, beorn, LM) are secondary/off healer classes in a raid ( 3 and possibly 6 mans should be able to be healed by these classes with proper gear and group makeup) setting
    assumption 2: Mini and rk can be equally successful healing through different styles
    assumption 3: The devs ( and SSG more importantly) are ALL IN for making class balance come to reality. That means everything is on the table (ie trait trees, LI s passives/legacies, skills changes, and anything else)
    assumption 4: Suggestion are ideas numbers may need tweaked up or down to prevent being under/over powered
    assumption 5: ALL classes will get a balance pass making at least 2 of the 3 trait trees viable
    assumption 6: balance pve classes then worry about moors

    If RK is to remain a HoT, damage reduction, and bubble healing class then changes to those areas need to be made. While mini is a splash healing crit based healing class; RK should be different than that.

    BUBBLES- These should be significant special and robust and make RK healing drastically different from mini healing. Bubble magnitude/cooldowns/durations may have to be adjusted for better balance
    Change 1: Bubbles need to be bigger value and/or % based... Personally i would like to see bubble be 15% of targets max morale and an LI legacy that can get it to 20 or 25% (maybe too low)
    Change 2: Keep -10% inc damage, A HoT and +10% inc healing on bubbles but 1% mitigation with a legacy that can get up to 5% (should be better than mini's SoS). have legacy increment by .5% then add crit defence %
    Change 3: If bubble is depleted either a large splash heal (meh kinda like minis) + a HoT... or +10% possibly 15% (too OP?) mitigations for like maybe 5 or 10 seconds + a HoT. This allows the HoT to heal the person back up to close to full
    Change 4: If bubble is NOT depleted adds 1% mits and a HoT

    SKILLS- there are some really unique/ useful skills that RK s have with minor tweaking should be viable. HoTs magnitude/durations/cooldowns may have to be adjusted for better balance
    Change 1: If a HoT crits do something beneficial. Must be careful with this so RK is not a crit based healing class like mini... so looking for suggestions
    Change 2: Tooltip on fates entwined needs to say amount absorbed and possibly be a % of damage. Possibly have a legacy that can increase % or duration ... may have to extend cd for fates entwined then
    Change 3: Armor of the elements needs a buff. Only buff the skill in blue line this way. Make it cast on self only but make it a 30% absorb and 30% reflect (or higher/lower just make it useful) + bubble + HoT on expiration. It has a 2 minute cd for an awful skill possibly up it to 5 minutes and trait it down to 3 minutes
    Change 4: Increase the legacy for healing over time when tanks have 150k+ morale and get for 90k damage a 3k HoT every 2 seconds for 10 seconds is meh at best.. not sure what % the legacy should go up to but over 100% from current value of HoTs

    Trait Trees- most of these will have to be passive skills only available in blue line
    Change 1: Any single target heal skill puts a bubble on RK. Any ally (not including the Rk ) bubbled puts a HoT on the caster RK
    Change 2: Put the physical mitigation in red line up 1 line to be more easily accessed (tactical mitigation for minis is on line 2 ... not that i trait it)
    Change 3: Add a passive 5% incoming healing for RK somewhere in blue ONLY
    Change 3: Add a fellowship only bubble for a total of 4 bubbles in blue line (1 raid wide , 1 fellow wide, 1 single target , and 1 self only)
    Change 4: Rousing words HoT increases as you channel and increase the range on the skill
    Change 5: Determine a way to make epic for the ages insta cast ... im open to ideas here ... after rousing words you next epic is insta cast? if epic for the ages target has tier 3 writ of health on it insta cast? the induction is just painful. It also needs a magnitude increase and keep the aoe option still. Also maybe if epic does not heal a target to full they get a bubble of some sort
    Change 6: Keep HoTs having an initial splash heal but when Hots expire if target not full heath they get a bubble and small splash heal

    Im sure some people will come and shoot the ideas down. What i really hope happens are some unique flavorful robust ideas are inspired by this....

  2. #2
    generally, I like your ideas of giving bubbles and other skills secondary benefits, depending if they were used in the right situations (a proactive healer should use his bubble when big incoming damage will come, so even giving a debuff if the bubble wasnt destroyed might be viable... as long as the bubbles are strong enough to actually be worth using).
    but as long as all buffs stack additive, further buffs for mits or reduced incoming damage need to be double-checked to prevent possible immunity to damage, which already is possible with certain class-combinations.
    If SSG one time decides to make all their buff-effects multiplicative (I dont see this change coming), having strong secondary effects would totally be a good idea.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    524
    I like your ideas.
    I think that just scaling bubbles potency would be a good starting point. Bringing back something like the pre-HD critical immunity on Word of Exaltation would be supercool.
    Adding a full AoE heal on crit for Epic For Ages and something like a 100% crit chance if the target has a bubble up.
    Cutting the Bombastic animation/recovery time to avoid the mending verse-writ of health spam.
    Double the cd and halves the duration of Our Fates Entwined but add some cool side effects/triggers.

    Also bring back the perma rune-sign of winter bonus set and/or the old osgi blue set.


    In general i love the idea of forcing blue-rk using all the spells it has instead of spamming 2 3 skills max...mostly by adding "combos" like the epic for ages crit on bubble or something connected to the rune of restoration.
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
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  4. #4
    concerning bubble-scaling:
    how about giving bubbles for 100% morale of the target which decay with 10-20% per second (or via taking damage).
    That way, its better to use bubbles directly before big hits, which is what they should be used for...
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Gründer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    concerning bubble-scaling:
    how about giving bubbles for 100% morale of the target which decay with 10-20% per second (or via taking damage).
    That way, its better to use bubbles directly before big hits, which is what they should be used for...
    I like that for the single target bubble it may be too powerful for the AoE bubbles (maybe 50% of max morale on aoe bubbles) ... Could also increase the -% on inc damage to -15% on all bubbles ... perhaps as a legacy or a tree skill
    Last edited by Dmunney; Mar 06 2018 at 01:13 PM.

  6. #6
    I'm curious, how is RK healing these days? For the first 4 years I played LOTRO, when playing in groups, I always played as a healer. I loved healing in the Moors and in PvE instances. Then along came Helm's Deep and trait trees. That was such a horrendously bad update for RK healers that I went exclusively DPS. I've never healed since then. Has it gotten better?
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    I'm curious, how is RK healing these days? For the first 4 years I played LOTRO, when playing in groups, I always played as a healer. I loved healing in the Moors and in PvE instances. Then along came Helm's Deep and trait trees. That was such a horrendously bad update for RK healers that I went exclusively DPS. I've never healed since then. Has it gotten better?
    Is not only about how blue rk is. Even in throne was playable but not at minstrel level. Now the gap is even bigger cause minstrel class is simply broken ( 90+k hps and 140k triumphant spirit heals) and mobs deal too much damage so a fast refull class is way better than a heals over time one.
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
    Stragnokka - Champ - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog

  8. #8
    Also one of the main deficiencies of RK healing is lack of AoE heal, so that is why another group bubble (fellowship) is needed

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Dmunney View Post
    Also one of the main deficiencies of RK healing is lack of AoE heal, so that is why another group bubble (fellowship) is needed
    I love how these ideas offered compliment mini healing instead of merely replicating it. I don't think RKs need to be the same but equally viable. In an ideal world I think each raid would have one RK and one mini healing together. We used to do it this way but now it seems it's just minis that are helpful and sought after. The game is more rich with a variety of skills and classes working together.

    Thanks for posting these great suggestions! I'd love to dust off my healing satchel again.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sblak View Post
    I love how these ideas offered compliment mini healing instead of merely replicating it. I don't think RKs need to be the same but equally viable. In an ideal world I think each raid would have one RK and one mini healing together. We used to do it this way but now it seems it's just minis that are helpful and sought after. The game is more rich with a variety of skills and classes working together.

    Thanks for posting these great suggestions! I'd love to dust off my healing satchel again.
    Yes definitely want RK and mini healing to compliment each other in unique ways. Also need some kind of buff similar to anthems. Perhaps crit rating on the rune stone of restoration

  11. #11
    Was talking to a kinnie who heals on mini at 115 (and RK occasionally)... who healed a lot on both at 75 and 85 caps (pre trait trees). she suggested that maybe epic for the ages is insta cast at 9 healing attunement but consumes attunement ... just throwing another idea out there ...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmunney View Post
    Was talking to a kinnie who heals on mini at 115 (and RK occasionally)... who healed a lot on both at 75 and 85 caps (pre trait trees). she suggested that maybe epic for the ages is insta cast at 9 healing attunement ... just throwing another idea out there ...
    Love this idea. Even if you lost attunement, it could still be worth it.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Ruined since trait treesl, incompetent developers/devs
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiCommander View Post
    Ruined since trait treesl, incompetent developers/devs
    Exactly, before the trait trees implementation rk heal was on par with minis, minis being better when damage was aoe and rk being better when damage was focused on tank. They should really do something about rk heals, right now basically is keeping t3 writ on all and spamming mending verse on main target. It's nearly the same as bolster spam was but without being able to compete even with the nerfed version of minis. For example: CoS got a 10s cd instant cast and on the move, crits for around 60k st. Efta on rk got a 15s cd, 2.5s induction and heals for 20k when crits. Mending verse heals 3-4k when critted, bolster heals 25-30k when critted, inspire fellows heals more than all the pulses from rousing words, useable each 4s and 1s induction, minis got also permanent -12% inc damage or -9% inc damage to whole fellowship. Soliloqy heals like 3 times as much as writ of health. All rk bubbles are useless, either they give you a morale bubble of 100k morale min, or they are completely useless, most bosses in raid already hit tanks for like 50k hits on a pretty solid basis, bubbles like they are atm just reduce the next hit magnitude by a really thin amount. Only skill rk got that is useful compared to a mini is fates entwined stone which btw seems completely out of tune in certain fights since pretty much nobody can die while it's up.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
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    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sblak View Post
    I love how these ideas offered compliment mini healing instead of merely replicating it. I don't think RKs need to be the same but equally viable. In an ideal world I think each raid would have one RK and one mini healing together. We used to do it this way but now it seems it's just minis that are helpful and sought after. The game is more rich with a variety of skills and classes working together.

    Thanks for posting these great suggestions! I'd love to dust off my healing satchel again.
    I do not have a capped Rk, but all of these changes sound good. I love the idea of having the mini be complemented by the presence of a blue rk, and vice versa, I think that would be wonderful. But I would be wary, the idea that a raid should have only one of each would turn the mini and blue rk into a what the beorning and rk are now, only present for boss 2, and only present for one dnf (Last raid I tried would not take multiple Rks because hunters are better). I think that the classes should complement each other, but by no means limit a raid to only one of each. Instead I would make the healing similar to what the guard and warden once were both different styles, both capable of tanking, one as good as the other.

    My Rk is lv 21 and her bubble is 1783 at max attunment while her health is 675

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    These are pretty complicated changes and a bit unnecessary.

    In my opinion to work with what we've got now and what we used to have, to minimise dev time (because that's what it boils down to) and maximise efficiency:

    Bring back Calming Verse, which gave us 10 seconds of on-the-move inductionless Mending Verses and a 20% run speed buff, as well as a few other minor buffs.
    Bring back Mending Verse morale boost, this was a cool/fun mechanic and idk why it was removed.
    Bring back the old Our Fates Entwined skill and remove the horrible fates stone we have now.
    Halve the induction of MV and remove its' CD, it's a bread & butter skill and the class cannot function without it, yet because it has a 1 second cooldown it can be interrupted and go on cooldown for 4 seconds, which is ridiculous.
    Massively increase all heals, especially the HOT components of the heals.
    Implement a way to make Epic for the Ages inductionless & reduce the CD of the heal to 5 seconds, massively buff the AOE range of the skill's splash heals, 5m range is pathetic and useless.
    The old 2set that applies initial heal of MV, Bombastic, and EftA should become a blue-line capstone trait.
    Fix the amazingly horrible skill delays between skills like Prelude, BI, Scribe a New Ending etc. these make the class horrible to play sometimes.
    Scribe should now be useable on the move.
    RKs should be susceptible to - but not crippled by - both silence and disarm. Currently either of these absolutely obliterates an RK and it's a joke. Pick one to be a minor inconvenience (like disarm for Minstrels) and make the other more damaging, with a way to counter it (like Minis Cry of the Chorus).
    All bubbles increased 10 fold. These have barely scaled since Moria and are utterly useless with current morale pools. Armour of the Elements is like 1200 or so last I checked, hilariously poor. Popping a 20 second CD single-target bubble should grant a really substantial bubble, just like you'd expect from a similar CD heal.
    Add an immediate AOE heal similar to Triumphant Spirit or massively buff Essay of Exaltation immediate heal.
    Fix the heals from Bombastic Inspiration, they're literally hilarious, I think the initial heal is like 200 morale right now, absolute joke and only worth using with the 2-set and as a split-second heal before casting bubble for cash-out right now.
    Double duration on all -10% inc damage buffs from bubbles, rune sign etc. They're too short at the moment.

    The list is probably endless but that'd be off the top of my head my suggestions.

    RK is in a sorry state right now but could be really great and fun to play with a few tweaks. Particularly the attack duration issue on loads of the skills, they're horrible.
    #15skills

 

 

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