We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1

    Champion suggestions for upcoming class balancing

    With the upcoming class changes I thought we could start a thread consolidating ideas to help the devs when they get round to the champion.



    Post your thoughts and suggestions and let's discuss how to improve the champion.
    Rakanor R12 Reaver - Trin R11 Champion

  2. #2
    Aside from balancing damage numbers here are my suggestions.







    • Crit magnitude legacy: cap at 50% add secondary +melee skill damage or some base damage modifier.
    • Fear nothing: reduce base cd to 25sec, legacy reduction to -15sec and make it remove disarm effect in addition to current removal.
    • Bracing attack: this needs to scale better as we level, possibly reintroduce improved bracing attack of old with a HoT.
    • Fight on: cooldown reduced to 1min.
      • Legacy: critical rating changed to +melee/range/tactical defence rating buff lasts for 20sec.

    • Wild attack: Animation is sped up and base damage is increased in relation to other skills.
    • True heroics: cooldown reduced to 1min
    • Rend is now a general skill with no bleed. The rend armour debuff is not as strong as at 105 which is a good thing but is still something we can bring to the group. These changes would allow champs to trait single target for single target fights and still bring this benefit to the group.
      • Red line: rend becomes rending strike and replaces devastating strike. Combines current verion of devastating strike with the armour reduction of rend. All devastating strike bonuses from tratis apply to rending strike. Cooldown of rending strike is 8.4sec double that of standard rend.
      • Yellow Line: rend becomes rending blades and keeps all its current benifits from yellow.

    • Brutal and savage/feral strikes: remove the hidden -40% critical magnitude from 2nd and 3rd strikes.


    • Dual wield weapon master: change 3% parry to +10% off hand weapon damage (can't remember the off-hand damage penalty)Controlled burn: +15% melee damage becomes +15% skill damage.
    • Emboldened blades: t5 guarantees a crit.
    • Hamstring: base cooldown reduced to 10sec
      • t5 of hamstrung trait doubles cooldown and gives knockdown.

    • Sprint: base cooldown reduced to 2mins.
      • Athletic trait reduces cooldown by 10/20/30 seconds.
      • Sprint legacy gives duration and evade max +15 seconds


    • Blade wall: once again builds 1 fervour.
    • Born for combat: Now triggers after 4 or 5 aoe skill uses.


    • Glory bonus: -2% from fervour spent tiers down 4sec also decreases damage from ranged and tactical sources.
    • Champions challenge: cooldown reduced to 15sec in blue traits.
    • Masocism: partials also reflect the increased threat effect.
    • Placed strike: t5 of the trait makes riposte sweeping riposte 100% of the time.
    • Aggressive exchange: debuff duration increased to 6seconds.
    • Adamant: duration increased by 5 seconds.
    • Fight through the pain and unstable: No longer procs on taking critical hits, now procs on full B/P/E.
    • Horn of champions: while traited blue acts as a force taunt.
    • Sudden defense: bubble needs to scale better as we level.



    I would also love to see a return to actually building and spending fervour starting with the removal of max rank ardent rage bonus. However I think that ship may have sailed into the West.
    Last edited by Rakanor; Feb 13 2018 at 07:58 AM.
    Rakanor R12 Reaver - Trin R11 Champion

  3. #3
    Firstly fire mitigation debuff potency of RKs and LMs have to be reduced, so all damage types (light, fire, frost, beleriand, westernesse, ancient dwarf) will be equally efficient in group content. After that they can continue on class balance.
    Laurelin: Kinship - Outcasts
    Ilwee - Warden, Krindel - Minstrel, Krinborn - Lore-Master, Gislin - Burglar

  4. #4
    @ Rakanor

    Some good points / suggestions. I will go further into detail as soon as I have more time.

    @ Krindel

    100% agree that all damage types should be (at least almost) equally efficient in group content. But for sure this will be kind of complicated.
    Either one would have to remove exisiting fire mit debuffs completely and change them to general tactical & physical mit debuffs, or leave fire mitigation debuffs as they are and introduce counterparts for all other damage types, which would be a more complicated way.

    Cheers,
    Vala
    Valanduin [Champ] & Valanduir [Warden] & Valanur [RK]
    Gwaihir [EU-DE] | Die Reiter von Rohan

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakanor View Post
    I would also love to see a return to actually building and spending fervour starting with the removal of max rank ardent rage bonus. However I think that ship may have sailed into the West.
    I miss those times too... u_u

    Just feel like throwing in my $0.02 to this in what will most likely be a wall of text... sorry
    I think your recommendations for yellow/red are right on the mark and would do well to help champs actually do the best they can by playing a champ and not rerolling a hunt*rd... I just want to throw in what I think more specifically of your blue recommendations. Most of them would be great to have, but a few of them I would sort of disagree on.

    • Champions challenge: cooldown reduced to 15sec in blue traits.
    • True heroics: cooldown reduced to 1min
    • Horn of champions: while traited blue acts as a force taunt.

    One thing I like about chanking (and from what I can tell, others who do it feel the same way for the most part) is how it is reminiscent of the old threat system, and hasn't devolved to what every other tank has become (taunt-to-win). I would be very wary about reducing the cooldowns on our taunts too much... Champion's Challenge going down to 15 seconds in blue I think would be ok, but I think True Heroics should stay at least at around 1minute 30s or so, just to make sure this doesn't happen. With Horn of Champions, I think it would be better suited to not make it an actual taunt, but a threat multiplier that works similarly to the way War Chant works on a guard. Give it a threat multiplier that is vastly higher than most other skills, but don't make it an actual taunt.

    • Aggressive exchange: debuff duration increased to 6seconds.

    This would definitely be a welcome change. Would help to keep it up more reliably, because as it stands with the Blade Wall animation, if we just spam Blade Wall and nothing else, we still can't keep it up perfectly 100% of the time. If we use another skill alternating with Blade Wall, the skill delay doesn't let us use Blade Wall off cooldown because it is just so slow...

    Here's a condensed version of what I would recommend is changed for blue line. Full explanations are here.
    • Seriously fix skill delay... It cripples blue champ to a ridiculous extent...
    • Change Vitality trait in blue (tier 2) to +% Incoming Healing. Give it +1/2% per rank, with a total of 5 ranks.
    • Adamant: Increase legacy to give +20s (max of 30s) instead of +5s. (Really, just give it a 50% uptime. Duration/cooldown is not as important.)
    • Unbreakable: Tact Mit rating buff changed to percentage (+0.5% per tier? +1%?) And the damage burst available at t10 should be changed to either a much larger Sudden Defence (~70% max morale bubble?) or a Shield of the Dunedain type bubble (explained here).
    • Sudden Defence: Obviously increase bubble potency. (~4.6k at 115 with max fervour exhausted? That's not even laughable, just sad...)
    • Good Defence/Strong Offence: Maybe give a defeat response when bubble pops (explained below for use)? I think that'd be interesting.
    • Unstable: Buff needs to be made multiplicative and adjusted accordingly. I'd recommend proc'ing on defeat responses, or if not, BPE like the OP said.
    • Fight Through the Pain: Good buff, change the proc to defeat responses/BPE like for Unstable.
    • Bracing Attack: Like OP said, Scale main heal, add HoT component like we used to have before trait trees.
    • Dire Need: Change to drain x% of current power, and take the percentage of that power compared to your max power, and restore it to morale. (40% max drain = 40% heal. 20% max drain (because power is half full) = 20% heal, etc.)
    • Ebbing/Rising Ire: Obligatory QQ
    • Hedge (or lack thereof): Give us Hedge back. It used to remove disarms, give the armour rating of a (heavy?) shield, and give a ton of wound resistance. 15s duration, 12s cooldown, so permanent buff.
    • Riposte: Change Sweeping Riposte proc to what OP said (t5 Placed Strike gives 100% Sweeping Reposte proc chance). Also, increase Sweeping Riposte from 3 targets to 5 or 8. Even with +5 targets from yellow, we only have 8 total, which often is not enough.
    • Exchange of Blows: I would love to see this given back to blue (replace Merciful Strike capstone) and have its duration/cooldown augmented to be a 50% uptime so you can dance it back and forth with Adamant. I'd recommend changing it though so that while active, Exchange of Blows sets incoming damage reduction to 0%, so no buffs will increase it. Makes it a very situational use then. (Just buff yellow DPS accordingly when this is removed.)
    Last edited by ColMcStacky; Feb 13 2018 at 12:32 PM.

  6. #6
    At first, i think SSG is aiming towards more minor changes and straight damage buffs, rather then reducing the cd of certain skills or changing there mechanics.
    And im not a big fan of putting to much work into the blueline champ, to make him an actuall tank besides cappy and guardian.
    I would realy like to see a strong redchamp and the old continues blood rage, atm the berserk tree feels not like a berserker, a berserker should be squishy , combined with the ability to deal insane damage.

    In my opinion there are some simple ways to put the champ,in the first phase of balacing ,near hunters/rk´s dps.

    -Change finesse so it mitigate partials or add a way that champions can mitigate it somhow (like hunter or burg). (In throne for example you have like 0% partials, because its lvl 105 content, and your dps comes super close to hunters or rk´s dps. Thats why i think this is one of the most important thinks to do, its an easy but such an impactfull fix)

    - Increasing Twohanded Weapon Dps, by default or via traits, either in the skilltree or on the weapon.
    - Currently traits that add +% damage to a skill, just add the damage to the mainhand and not the offhand.
    - Overthink certain traits or skills that add +mele damage and give them a streight +damage component.
    Gertes

  7. #7

    Good start to the conversation

    At the moment Champions are not used endgame, not used in the raid due to their weak-sause scaling.
    As i doubt some of the huge changes proposed by some dreamers and lovers of blue line champ (which has never really got attention) so forget about it.

    Lets look at what champ was born for, killing the minions of evil dynesty warriors style, aka AOE insanity. Here are a few simple fixes:

    Simple fixes:
    Scale rend to a 10-15% armor debuff, insted of its pointless-ness right now. When champs have something to contribute uniquly to the group they will get used end game.
    Update Flurry for the love of all thats good and holy, having to use so many crit essences hurts. Flurry is what right now like +1200 crit, should be more lik 8-10k like a cappy buff.
    Add a real armor penetration to skill tree, to offset the partial avoid non-sense. Or a +20k finess in yellow insted of these tiny numbers like 1k.
    For the love give champs at least 1 half-way-decent armor set bonus, current bonuses are total garbage and dont buff dps in any way on a dps based class that currently lacks dps.

    A few dreams to improve champ:
    Add a cc skill or disarm to a champ skill, or remove the number of trait pointes needed for upgraded hamstring and sprint. (both skills are meh conpared to other classes similar skills, long cooldowns and short durations. As an arms master a champ should be able to run and slice.
    Add a move speed buff that corresponds to +fervor like +5% per ferver - so max +25% (in combat)

    (i have been playing champ since the old days, and lotro since beta, please fix my favorite class)
    I'll even make my wife bake you some cupcakes. true story.

  8. #8
    I guess that for yellow line would be interesting to add a skill that could avoid the champ from attacking one foe, so we could go AoE in raids and control our dps on bosses while taking down multiple minions. There could be some testing to it, like it's cooldown, duration and conditions for it breaking, like making it break if attack the target directly.
    That sounds like an kind of easy change and something that could make aoe less harmfull to some bosses.

  9. #9
    I donßt get your point here, where is the aoe damage of a champ a problem in bossfights?
    Gertes

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    I donßt get your point here, where is the aoe damage of a champ a problem in bossfights?
    There are bosses that you need to control the dps or there will be many mobs spawning. I can't really point where though, but I guess Lintanar from silent street used to be one, and probably there are others.
    Obviously, that's a very occasional situation, and far less important than the general champ balance.
    Valadao (champ), Dissikni (minstrel)
    Evernight; The Outlaw Brotherhood kinship.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by GValadao View Post
    There are bosses that you need to control the dps or there will be many mobs spawning. I can't really point where though, but I guess Lintanar from silent street used to be one, and probably there are others.
    Obviously, that's a very occasional situation, and far less important than the general champ balance.
    You certainly didnt need to limit aoe on that boss. We would start with full nuke on the boss and 40s later everything dead.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    You certainly didnt need to limit aoe on that boss. We would start with full nuke on the boss and 40s later everything dead.
    That's how it was after you got a geared group, but when I was still gearing i remember some groups would wipe out as many mobs would spawn and couldn't be killed fast enough.
    Valadao (champ), Dissikni (minstrel)
    Evernight; The Outlaw Brotherhood kinship.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GValadao View Post
    That's how it was after you got a geared group, but when I was still gearing i remember some groups would wipe out as many mobs would spawn and couldn't be killed fast enough.
    Thats why you do not limit aoe, you simply stop heavy single target dps. Aoe dps isnt high enough to trigger such bosses too frequently.

  14. #14
    For the Beginning I would already be happy when Champions get mitgations from there main attributes,
    like other classes in the game,
    Having to slot all your essence with mitgations campared to maybe one for other damage dealers to reaching the t2 Caps is just BS.

    Also a scroll, Item or skill that gives us firedamage would be cool
    Last edited by Malganis_Lefay; Yesterday at 05:51 AM.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload