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  1. #1

    Minith Tirith travel = crash

    It seems that, for the past 3 or 4 months, stable porting into Minith Tirith from almost anywhere will OFTEN crash the game
    and riding a war horse down to south gate also crashes far too often.
    I know tickets and bug reports have been filed but the problem persists.
    Wonder why?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    18
    I've crashed a few times at Minas Tirith, but that was due to extensive AFK'ing and joining/leaving lots of skirmishes.

    The funny thing to me is I get 40-50FPS with the entire Minas Tirith in view, yet 5-20FPS throughout Mordor

  3. #3
    i have to switch to very low setting to remove the crash in minas tirith
    at high setting i crash every 5 min
    and even at low setting i use the standard horse.
    war steed bug too much in this zone

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Germany Middle Frankonia
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    45
    That bug is as old as MT, it's a memleak. You encounter it when lotroclient.exe uses more than ~2,5GB RAM. Same occures in Bree, Camp of the Host, Dol Amroth and so on. You can workaround this by switching to high graphic settings instead using ultra high. Atm it's not fixable, maybe when the 64bit client is released (if that will ever happen of course).

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    2,198
    Quote Originally Posted by Thormund View Post
    That bug is as old as MT, it's a memleak. You encounter it when lotroclient.exe uses more than ~2,5GB RAM. Same occures in Bree, Camp of the Host, Dol Amroth and so on. You can workaround this by switching to high graphic settings instead using ultra high. Atm it's not fixable, maybe when the 64bit client is released (if that will ever happen of course).

    I think the perceived wisdom about MT is wrong. I have spent an hour per evening, every evening this week jumping in and out of MT using all the various porting skills and not crashed once, using dx11 with the gfx settings all set to the maximum level - which resulted in fps as low a 2fps in places!!

    If anyone suffering crashes feel brave enough, try switching off the Windows page/swap file. I'll post instructions if anyone wants to try. It hasnt really been needed since before LOTRO came out - originally being used to get around the memory constraints on early x86 designs, and later, the high price of RAM. I have been switching mine off since 98se.

    EDIT

    I realised I hadnt been checked RAM usage, so have just gone back and jumped in and out a few times; RAM usage has so far reached 3.5GB with no crashes.

    2nd EDIT

    At no time in the area did my RAM usage drop below 2.7GB; as soon as I ported out of the MT area to Bree, thorins Hall etc, it would spike to ~3.2GB for a second, then drop to around 1.5 GB, the 3.5GB spike above was using CampFire skills to go from MT to the nearest camp.

    My conjecture is it is the delays caused by writing data to and from the pagefile that is causing the issue, as the pagefile gets written to regardless of need.

    Caveat

    I have a Win7 system, I have never played with Win10, so I dont know how the pagefile system might have changed; however it hasnt changed since Win95, so I dont see that it will have changed for Win10.
    Last edited by Yarbro; Jan 13 2018 at 07:21 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
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    6,285
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    If anyone suffering crashes feel brave enough, try switching off the Windows page/swap file. I'll post instructions if anyone wants to try. It hasnt really been needed since before LOTRO came out - originally being used to get around the memory constraints on early x86 designs, and later, the high price of RAM. I have been switching mine off since 98se.
    Hi Yarbro,

    With PM notifications not working reliably, you may not have noticed that I have replied to yours.

    I tried disabling the paging file. Unfortunately, there was no effect and crashing persisted. I have sent the details.

    --H
    Installing LotRO -- One Guide to Rule Them All!
    Purchasing LotRO -- Guide to Building Your Own "Lifetime" Account.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    UK
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    2,198
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    Hi Yarbro,

    With PM notifications not working reliably, you may not have noticed that I have replied to yours.

    I tried disabling the paging file. Unfortunately, there was no effect and crashing persisted. I have sent the details.

    --H
    Hi Hurin, I just checked again and I have no new messages.

    Did you disable for all drives, Win seems to set it up on each HDD, and of course, you did a full reboot??

    If so, it is very odd that I have been trying my hardest to cause a crash, and havent managed yet; 3.5GB is well above the 2.5GB perceived wisdom says is the cause.

    As I said to you though, I am only on Tier One, I havent done any of the quests to go higher as my character hasnt reached that point in the Epic line yet, (still sub L100).
    I cannot think of any other changes to the basic OS settings that I might have made that could make a difference.

    "Processor scheduling" is set for Programs and not Background services, DEP is set for OS files and not all files, and System Restore is Off.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    USA
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    6,285
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    Hi Hurin, I just checked again and I have no new messages.
    Is it possible your inbox is full? The capacity of our inboxes was cut back a while ago.

    Did you disable for all drives, Win seems to set it up on each HDD, and of course, you did a full reboot??

    Yep.

    As I think you've speculated, maybe it's a case of some computers being too fast. . . so those with SSDs (etc.) might be loading in game data before memory is cleared. Someone in a prior thread mentioned that MT crashes are alleviated by turning down the game "engine speed" a notch.

    --H
    Installing LotRO -- One Guide to Rule Them All!
    Purchasing LotRO -- Guide to Building Your Own "Lifetime" Account.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    Is it possible your inbox is full? The capacity of our inboxes was cut back a while ago.




    Yep.

    As I think you've speculated, maybe it's a case of some computers being too fast. . . so those with SSDs (etc.) might be loading in game data before memory is cleared. Someone in a prior thread mentioned that MT crashes are alleviated by turning down the game "engine speed" a notch.

    --H
    I noted the game engine speed tip, but dont know, mine is still set to max I beleive (I will check on next log in), I also have LOTRO installed on a fairly fast SSD (Patriot), and prior to the Patriot on a blisteringly fast, but rather small sized KingSpan(?) SSD that now sits in my daughters system. Not 100% sure of the brand name, as there are a dozen Chinese knock-offs with variations of the name.

    Still no mail; I switched you off of "ignore", but nothing new showed up, system says I am allowed 250 messages - live or stored; I have 36, as I clear out old conversations once per year, and delete junk mails whenever they arrive.

    Of course it could be something different on your system, which is why I asked if anyone else wanted to give it a try; a sample size of 2 isnt really a good idea.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    Still no mail; I switched you off of "ignore", but nothing new showed up, system says I am allowed 250 messages - live or stored; I have 36, as I clear out old conversations once per year, and delete junk mails whenever they arrive.
    Odd. My PMs say 75 total are allowed at bottom.

    With your permission, I'll just post them (the details of the crash and settings, etc.) to the thread.
    Installing LotRO -- One Guide to Rule Them All!
    Purchasing LotRO -- Guide to Building Your Own "Lifetime" Account.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    Odd. My PMs say 75 total are allowed at bottom.

    With your permission, I'll just post them (the details of the crash and settings, etc.) to the thread.
    Please feel free.

    BTW I just logged in to check, Game Speed is set to "Very High"

  12. #12
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarbro View Post
    Please feel free.
    -----------------#1---------------------
    Generally, it occurs when zoning after any substantial amount of time is spent in and around Minas Tirith. So, running around pre-battle Pelennor, or the city itself, and then swift-travelling away. And from then on, having been in/around MT, every swift travel or mapping/zoning anywhere during that play session is prone to crashing.

    Is the current theory that AMD video is not affected? Or that disabling paging file works around it?

    I can disable paging file. But I won't be buying an AMD card just to test. ;P

    ------------------------------------------

    ----------------#2-----------------------

    Reply #2 (plz see first reply for details on MT crashing).

    I turned off paging file and rebooted. Played at 3440x1440 ultra 8x AA in windowed mode. Used "Returned to MT". . . got daily quests, Swift Traveled to North Gate (the Rammas), did th dailies there, warsteed rode to go get the Uruk-Hai killing daily to the East of the Main Gate (near the river), then crashed to desktop as I rode my warsteed back to Main Gate to turn in. Crashed about "20 paces" from the gate.



    So I guess that rules out paging file settings. . . I'll leave testing on AMD video cards to you! Though, be careful, it's tough to prove a negative conclusively!

    Best,

    --H
    Installing LotRO -- One Guide to Rule Them All!
    Purchasing LotRO -- Guide to Building Your Own "Lifetime" Account.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    -----------------#1---------------------
    Generally, it occurs when zoning after any substantial amount of time is spent in and around Minas Tirith. So, running around pre-battle Pelennor, or the city itself, and then swift-travelling away. And from then on, having been in/around MT, every swift travel or mapping/zoning anywhere during that play session is prone to crashing.

    Is the current theory that AMD video is not affected? Or that disabling paging file works around it?

    I can disable paging file. But I won't be buying an AMD card just to test. ;P

    ------------------------------------------

    ----------------#2-----------------------

    Reply #2 (plz see first reply for details on MT crashing).

    I turned off paging file and rebooted. Played at 3440x1440 ultra 8x AA in windowed mode. Used "Returned to MT". . . got daily quests, Swift Traveled to North Gate (the Rammas), did th dailies there, warsteed rode to go get the Uruk-Hai killing daily to the East of the Main Gate (near the river), then crashed to desktop as I rode my warsteed back to Main Gate to turn in. Crashed about "20 paces" from the gate.



    So I guess that rules out paging file settings. . . I'll leave testing on AMD video cards to you! Though, be careful, it's tough to prove a negative conclusively!

    Best,

    --H

    Someone on the other thread has already stated his set up is AMD and crashing, although it is a rather elderly AMD card, I do think it rules out the idea that AMD is immune for now; although it might be his card is going sour, which is why we need a decent sample size of people posting their system, system settings and crash status.

    Were you watching the amount of RAM the game was using? I kept the process window open under the LOTRO window, quickly switching back and forth to keep an eye on it, and focusing entirely on it while porting.



    The alt* I am currently working with is just cleaning up in The Gap of Rohan, a few slayer deeds to do; then I will switch to my main for a month, work him up to MT in that time if I can, and try questing there to see what happens; but right now, I just cannot make the game crash.

    * Still using non LI weapons and still going strong - although he has now nearly outleveled the Gap - everything is light blue; and this after starting Endwaith when it was still purple, skipping much of the content in the area, AND skipping the Epic quests in Endwaith and Dunland. It really is too easy to level up, even when not a VIP.

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    The basic problem here is exactly what was stated in the beginning -- LOTRO is a 32-bit client which has memory leaks; all of which are related to the "land-block" system which LOTRO uses for Graphics.

    The problems are manifest dependent upon many different aspects of your system (and have nothing to do with the servers) - memory speed, CPU speed, graphics card, bus speed, etc.
    As long as your system can move these land-blocks in and out of the 4gb memory space allotted to a 32-bit program, everything runs smoothly.
    But when there is a delay switching blocks - like during the transitions screens for swift travel or moving from one "busy" land-block to another, you get the crashes.
    The area around Minas Tirith is "busy" in that the flames chew up a lot of processor power. No not on your graphics card, but moving the graphics information from your graphics card to the display memory, etc.

    The problem is that each system has different characteristics, and because of the 4Gb limit of a 32-bit program, programmers have played lots of games to pretend that limit does not exist.
    And the differences relate to versions of the Operating System's memory management code as much as anything else - what patches are installed, and what other programs are doing.

    In short, every individual has to tune their system themselves -- what works for one person may or may not work for another.
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