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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    34

    Lightbulb Warden 2018 / Changes and Improvements

    I want to share my thoughts about wardens changes and improvements that devs need to do in 2018.
    The main concept of warden - tanking class that can buff himself for b/p/e and deal moderate damage while tanking.
    Now i'll compare 3 main tank classes with they survivability and usefulness in raid t2.


    let's compare Warden with other tanking classes nowadays:

    Guardian:

    Advantages:
    - Lots of taunts with low cooldown and high range that you can easily rotate to hold aggro.
    - The highest mitigations level - 72% in combat.
    - Extremely high level of b/p/e without using any essences or buffs( 70k of each can be easily done without using any in combat buffs)
    - 3 skills that can help you to survive nearly in all hardest situations. You also can rotate them well to stay alive. (Warriors heart/ Guardians Pledge, Juggernaut, sometimes Bring on the Pain)
    - Very high morale pool (165k morale without cappy and duty bound)
    - Can be useful helping fellowship to survive (litany of defiance, shield wall)
    - Amazing instant healing skill ( Warrior's heart)


    Disadvantages
    - No survival skill that can absorb tactical damage
    - Can't deal damage while tanking / can't heal fellowship or give any significant buffs for fellowship


    Captain:

    Advantages:
    - Very high pull of morale (200k morale)
    - Moderate b/p/e with all essences of vitality (u still can get maximum full avoidance chance with 200k morale)
    - Buffs that can help to survive cappy ( Battle-Hardened Incomind damage -15%) (Sure strike +5% to defence) ( To arms buff)
    - Extremely useful for fellowship because of his buffs (+10% to morale/ + to all stats / To arms buff / Sure strike buff / Brother's call buff / Banners (incoming heal/ damage) and so on)
    - Amazing healing potency in all lines / can give mana / help mini with healing his felowship
    - Best survivability (Shield of Dunedain -70% inc damage for 20 sec cooldown 2 min , +70% to parry for 20 sec with cooldown 2 minutes, Last stand 17 sec immortal , tons of heals and buffs that help to survive)
    - Healing mark is invisible healing rk in fellowship.
    - 63 % of mitigations
    - Aoe taunt 40 m range and solo melee taunt

    Disadvantages:
    - Can't deal even moderate dps while tanking
    - Only one Aoe taunt with 20 sec cooldown
    - (if cappy could deal dps - you can delete warden)



    Warden:

    Advantages:

    - Can deal moderate dps while tanking
    - Can survive for 12 sec while using aoe taunt vs 5+ targets. After this = death or shaking hands of mini.

    Disadvantages:

    - 50% mitigations = x 1.5 more damage taken than any of ther tanks
    - Got no any survivability skills that can help to stay alive against solo targeted bosses. (Only one survival skill with 5 min cooldown that heal you for 50% of your morale.)
    - Low morale pull (135 k morale with all essences of Vitality)
    - Low level of non-combat b/p/e (if you don't use any b/p/e essences you can get 30k block/ 50k parry/ 60k evade)
    - Can't be useful for his fellowship while tanking t2c instances . ( u can't do -20% induction buff while tanking t2 raid becuase you simply can die if you don't concentrate on buffing yourself with gambits)
    - If you have lm and red rk you can forget about your debuffing javelins ( lm and red rk can decrease fire mitigation to nearly 0%)
    - No solo taunt. No targeted taunt at all.
    - Only 1 taunt! (tank class don't forget)
    - Healing gambits don't help warden to survive against spike strikes.




    THAT'S WHY I WANT TO PAY YOUR ATTENTION TO WARDENS, SSG!
    This class seems to be the hardest to play nowadays and to do his job correctly (can only be compared to lm).


    Here are some of my ideas how to make warden more useful and strong enought to be a real tank( as it was written in your concept):
    Blue line :

    - New skill - When u use it , u get + 40% mits for 14 seconds as if you used defiant challenge on 5+mobs. Cooldown: 30 sec. This skill would be great for wardens survivability against solo targets that hit hard spec attacks(Lumithil, Gloom of Nurn) and when you need to start the fight and survive first hard hits of mobs ( trash pulls to 3rd boss AoM t2c for example).
    - Increase buff duration of shield gambits to 60 seconds. Now it's hard to hold agro with dps increase of hunters/ rk's and to hold all the buffs of fist and shield gambits on yourself.
    - New Skill - Solo taunt gambit (fist-spear-fist-spear-fist) with cooldown up to 20 seconds.
    - Dance of war and Conviction should increase warden's mitigations for every char in his pack up to +10% phys and tact mits.
    - Make skill - Warning Shot- decrease outgoing damge from -5% to -20% . That would help warden and his fellowship to survive AOE spec attacks. (Dulgabeth Court of Seregost)
    - Make new Runes of binding(+96 tact healing work for warden's healing skills sane as for beornings)
    - Adroit Manoeuvre should give -20% induction buff in all stances (melee/ range)
    - New skill - Javelin of Lance - javelin that warden can attack target with . While javelin is active on a target that was attacked - all critical attacks on this target heal others for 10% of their morale. Duration 20 sec / Cooldown 40 sec.
    - Decrease the cooldown of antistun skill from 2 min to 1 min in blue line.


    Red line
    - Make Warden's Triumph gambit increase incoming damage to the target u used it on for +15 or +20% . Duration: while in combat.
    - Fix warden's legacie ( +% to light damage), right now it's scaled wrong( +17%) it should give the same percentage as +% to fire type damage on rk's work(+50%).
    - Fix warden's bleed gambits, extremely terrible damage from spear gambits.
    - Too much resists on t2c bosses even with 120k + finesse.
    - Increase double dot proc chance from 15% to 25%.

    Yellow line

    You should forget about warden's ranged dps and make yellow line oriented on debuffing enemy to increase dps on them significantly.

    - Make some ranged gambits increase critical chance and critical damage of fellowship.
    - Warden's Skill - Fire at Will - should give strong temporary buff with +% to ranged/ melee/ tactical damage for 15 seconds with cooldown 1 min.
    - Make Marked Target and Diminished Target decrease mitigation to -15 % basically. That would help wardens who don't have earring or daily set also it will let warden's with earring still stay a bit more useful.
    - Scale + finesse ( now it gives you about 2000, should give about + 8000-10000).


    That are some of my ideas. If you guys have any good ideas about wardens changes and improvements pls write about them in this thread. We should help SSG with it because seems to me they can't do it without our feedback.
    Last edited by Axillo; Jan 12 2018 at 06:28 AM.

  2. #2
    Blue:
    - Only in blue +10s spear, shield, fist gambit buff duration
    - Dance of War grants +5% physical mitigation, up from 2%
    - Conviction grants +5% tactical mitigation, up from 2%
    - Shield Mastery grants -25% incomming melee and ranged damage, trade-off will be loss of 25% melee skill damage for duration of buff, this gambit is blue line exclusive
    - Shield Tactics grants -25% incomming tactical damage, trade-off will be loss of -25% tactical skill damage for duration of buff, this gambit is blue line exclusive
    - Reduce Restoration healing by 20%, increase Persevere and Safeguard healing by 25%
    - Reduce mitigation buff from Deffiant Challenge by 2% per target.
    - Introduce single target force taunt on Warning Shot javelin skill or on gambit - what about Agression - 3213
    - With this changes warden will still have higher tps than guardian and captain, but difference will not be that high

    Red:
    - Reduce healing by 75%, we have now -50% and healing is still too strong, only if red traited
    - Scale up light damage legacy little bit
    - Fix Spear shield gambit damage an Spear gambit damage legacies to increase bleeds or increase bleed damage significantly
    - Critical strike is useless skill, it works only if target is dazed or knocked down and damage is pathetic, lets make a short window after use of Recklessness, in which you can use Critical Strike. Introduce new mechanic - after Critical Strike use, your next bleed will proc twice.
    - Increase buff duration of Warden's Triumph and Adroit Manoeuvre from 20s to 35s
    - Spear Sweep trait - AOE damage have to be increased significantly
    - Quick Sweep trait - Bleeds on AOE targets have to be increased significantly, also chance should be increased from 10-30% to 30-50%
    - Way of the Spear trait - should increase bleed damage
    - On the Offense trait - increase offence strike morale tap damage and morale tap damage from 3-15%, 1-5% to 10-50%, 2-10%
    - Wardens damage have to be balanced around fire RKs damage, because we do not have much utility besides dps.

    Yellow:
    - +100% javelin skills damage, only if yellow traited
    - Throwing arm +25% ranged damage instead of 10%
    - Focus fire +5% instead of +2,5%
    - Fire at Will +10% physical and tacical mastery for your fellowship
    - Dodge This! debuff target BPE by 10% for 10s
    - Shields Up and Momentum traits - increase duration from 12s to 20s
    - Battering Strikes trait - debuff critical defence by 3%, 5% and 7%
    - Piercing Javelin trait - reduce armour significantly
    - Shatered Javelin trait - increase AOE damage significatly
    - Ranged Damage trait - increase ranged damage from 3-15% to 10-50%
    Last edited by Krindel; Jan 12 2018 at 09:45 AM.
    Laurelin: Kinship - Outcasts
    Ilwee - Warden, Krindel - Minstrel, Krinborn - Lore-Master, Gislin - Burglar

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Krindel View Post
    Blue:
    - Only in blue +10s spear, shield, fist gambit buff duration
    - Dance of War grants +5% physical mitigation, up from 2%
    - Conviction grants +5% tactical mitigation, up from 2%
    - Shield Mastery grants -25% incomming melee and ranged damage, trade-off will be loss of 25% melee skill damage for duration of buff, this gambit is blue line exclusive
    - Shield Tactics grants -25% incomming tactical damage, trade-off will be loss of -25% tactical skill damage for duration of buff, this gambit is blue line exclusive
    - Reduce Restoration healing by 20%, increase Persevere and Safeguard healing by 25%
    - Reduce mitigation buff from Deffiant Challenge by 2% per target.
    - Introduce single target force taunt on Warning Shot javelin skill or on gambit - what about Agression - 3213
    - With this changes warden will still have higher tps than guardian and captain, but difference will not be that high

    Red:
    - Reduce healing by 75%, we have now -50% and healing is still too strong, only if red traited
    - Scale up light damage legacy little bit
    - Fix Spear shield gambit damage an Spear gambit damage legacies to increase bleeds or increase bleed damage significantly
    - Critical strike is useless skill, it works only if target is dazed or knocked down and damage is pathetic, lets make a short window after use of Recklessness, in which you can use Critical Strike. Introduce new mechanic - after Critical Strike use, your next bleed will proc twice.
    - Increase buff duration of Warden's Triumph and Adroit Manoeuvre from 20s to 35s
    - Spear Sweep trait - AOE damage have to be increased significantly
    - Quick Sweep trait - Bleeds on AOE targets have to be increased significantly, also chance should be increased from 10-30% to 30-50%
    - Way of the Spear trait - should increase bleed damage
    - On the Offense trait - increase offence strike morale tap damage and morale tap damage from 3-15%, 1-5% to 10-50%, 2-10%
    - Wardens damage have to be balanced around fire RKs damage, because we do not have much utility besides dps.

    Yellow:
    - +100% javelin skills damage, only if yellow traited
    - Throwing arm +25% ranged damage instead of 10%
    - Focus fire +5% instead of +2,5%
    - Fire at Will +10% physical and tacical mastery for your fellowship
    - Dodge This! debuff target BPE by 10% for 10s
    - Shields Up and Momentum traits - increase duration from 12s to 20s
    - Battering Strikes trait - debuff critical defence by 3%, 5% and 7%
    - Piercing Javelin trait - reduce armour significantly
    - Shatered Javelin trait - increase AOE damage significatly
    - Ranged Damage trait - increase ranged damage from 3-15% to 10-50%
    I kind of like your suggestions more than the original post, I don't know, it feels more like warden style. I wouldn't ask to reduce restoration heal, we got a 130-150k morale pool fully geared with buffs, restoration heal seems like on point, safeguard and persevere are the ones that feel too underpowered.

    As for the first post, I'm totally up for not binding your survival skills (DC) to your taunt.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    408
    Let's just remind ourselves that its LOTRO's long-standing practice of making quick fixes and changes when it comes to class balances. They aren't going to revamp everything because they lack the manpower. Don't make lofty suggestions that you know SSG won't do.

    Here are my suggestions:

    Blue
    Warning Shot definitely needs some changes, add a taunt effect to it and raise the debuff from 5%.
    Gambit buff duration definitely needs to be raised.
    Always make Defiant Challenge give +40% mits for solo boss tanking like Ruined City final boss.
    Add any extra mechanism to reduce warden incoming damage in blue line, because the main issue is that they take way too much damage compared to Guardian/Captain tanks.

    Red
    Warden healing in redline is irrelevant as it is, no need to reduce it further. Keep it at -50%.
    Scale up light damage and spear bleed damage legacies.
    Nobody traits Quick Sweep and Spear Sweep to begin with, and it makes little sense to give up points elsewhere to gain these traits unless if they made ridiculous increases to it. I'd say just forget about these altogether.
    Critical Strike change is gimmicky, in my opinion. They should just remove that skill entirely because nobody uses it.

    Yellow
    I would just forget about any ranged damage increase. Make yellow a buffing/debuffing line for the fellowship. The OP's suggestions are acceptable.
    Scaling up the finesse trait would be good, since it's useless now.

  5. #5
    I am a guardian and do not have problems for t2 coss and other istancias but I have a wuarden and cannot enter to these instances for lack of treatment if I run to the boss
    Attempt pardon explains to me for my bad Inglis in coss t2 end boss when I run to the boss with the guardian I recover with warrior's heart without problem and put on mitigation alone, but the wuarden on having run cannot use gambit and does not have an automatic heal as the guardian
    The wuarden needs on line blue a skill of heal as heart of the warrior in the guardian who is used without doing gambit to be able to run to a boss without dying

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,029
    Unless the general attitude regarding how to deal with the mitigation gap changes from "lets give them an active buff like DC" to "Let's passively buff wardens without simply giving them +10% mits", the class (as far as tanking) is gunna remain at destination ####ed. Traits and itemisation, while significant issues, are still solid #2 and #3 priorities.

    Red line is pretty silly. There should be more utility offered by warden DPS, with less of a focus on stacking light damage DoTs, just like it used to be pre trait trees. I'm not saying, however, to get rid of light DoTs as a dps option. For example, why is the desolation fear only offered to blue line wardens, who have no reason to use the skill? What shield skills, debuffs or other forms of cc/utility exist for any line, apart from yellows -20% induction buff?

    Thematically, yellow line just doesnt fit the class at all. Of course, people would get too upset (probably) if the ranged stance got canned. Apart from not fitting with the class at all, it's just totally useless - it does no damage and offers terrible utility to justify a spot in a group.


    I personally would like to see red line turned into a physical DPS orientated spec, and yellow line turned into a tactical AoE DPS line, but with both lines getting small-moderate utility bonuses on gambits (particularly shield gambits, and other gambits that nobody uses) and javelin skills. If people really like the javelin gambit options, maybe we could merge the melee and ranged stances into one. Simply give the javelin builder to people in all lines, and then give the warden something like their old stances (Determination, Conservation, Recklessness, Way of the warden).

 

 

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