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  1. #126
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    All I know is that my Warden was the best for killing Grumpy Trees in Frostbluff and Champion the worst. Long ranged other players would beat you out of a quick kill.
    It is logical, in view of the times in which we live. But to be logical is not to be right, and nothing on God's earth could ever make it right!
    - Judge Dan Haywood

  2. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by CDingler View Post
    I kinda get a kick out of some of you going on about red Hunter should be higher DPS than blue. Really? They do the same thing.......ranged ST DPS. Its not like were talking about CC vs DPS or tanking vs heals, they are both ranged ST DPS. That's it. Period. Nothing more. If anything, they should be evened out with maybe a little more range advantage added to red. I'd do something like this:

    Buff the percentages of redline set bonuses Shoot to Kill and Haemorrhaging Shot, and change Plant Feet to a percentage reduction of inductions while in Strength Stance, to bring DPS in line with blueline. Extend redline range advantage by another 5 meters. This will make both lines somewhat equal for DPS. Red will have a distinct range advantage, while blue will have mobility. This will support both styles of play while keeping some advantage to each line. Blue can run and gun but has to stay closer in, while red can snipe away at a safer stand off distance, all while having virtually the same ST DPS.

    Now Champs are a different animal. They are already AoE kings, but their ST does need buffed some to make them viable for Abyss, etc.. Unlike the OP, I don't think Champs should have top ST DPS, but it definitely needs to be better than it is. For them I'd probably look at doing something like this:

    Buff the skill damage percentage of redline set bonus Fervour and increase the attack duration reduction of set bonus Precise Strikes, to bring ST DPS up to acceptable levels. Buff target's out-going damage reduction percentage of Champion's Duel skill, possibly by 2-5%. The added DPS and the increased target debuff should make Champs more viable for raid spots when ST DPS is needed.

    Anyway, just some ideas for relatively simple fixes to a couple of the things people were discussing in this thread.
    Annoys the hell out of me. Sure....take away the ONE fun spec for me in the game. In Mordor my well geared Hunter has to kite the living @#$% out of bad guys in many areas for dailies. Instead of crying to take away dps from blue line make red more viable. I am so tired of MMOs where short-sighted simpletons want to nerf #### instead of buffing the rest. Or.....if you have class or spec-envy nothing is stopping you from rolling it.

    Stop trying to make classes or specs less fun for others and instead lobby to make yours more fun for YOU. Idiocy.

  3. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymore View Post
    All I know is that my Warden was the best for killing Grumpy Trees in Frostbluff and Champion the worst. Long ranged other players would beat you out of a quick kill.
    Sounds like Warden needs a nerf....

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by dselden View Post
    Why do you think blue hunters should be the same dps when they maintain dps while being forced to move while red hunter doesn't?
    That argument is based on a false premise. Red doesn't have to move at all. It is a higher burst DPS whereas blue is more sustained. So red is going to kill everything quicker, excepting for the higher mobs and bosses. Because of that, the longer range of red allows them to kill most mobs before they get to melee range. So even on the rare occasions when you are forced to move, say tank loses agro or soloing an RT, red will have done more damage than blue before it is forced to move. That being said, I wouldn't use red for soloing RTs or anything along that line, because blue's sustained DPS would win out in a situation where the Hunter is the only threat. But, I'd be almost solely red for group content that wouldn't require any kiting. And that is where the beauty would lie in evening the two lines up. It would cater to both play styles and also return situational functionality to the class.
    CAANJAAL - Like Visa and Savoir Faire, he's everywhere!!!
    "If you find yourself in a fair fight, you've already lost!"

  5. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Viper482 View Post
    Annoys the hell out of me. Sure....take away the ONE fun spec for me in the game. In Mordor my well geared Hunter has to kite the living @#$% out of bad guys in many areas for dailies. Instead of crying to take away dps from blue line make red more viable. I am so tired of MMOs where short-sighted simpletons want to nerf #### instead of buffing the rest. Or.....if you have class or spec-envy nothing is stopping you from rolling it.

    Stop trying to make classes or specs less fun for others and instead lobby to make yours more fun for YOU. Idiocy.
    I run redline for dailies on my non-geared hunter and nothing survives long enough to get close to me, I can pull 3 or 4 mobs and they're all dead before I'm below 80% (that usually from ranged enemies). The reason my hunter isn't geared is because I can vaporize and burn through dailies in no time at all without the effort.

    This actually sounds about right - you should have to kite and avoid contact while your dps slowly eats away at them, I should be able to vaporize them but get dead if they get close to me.
    .

    Gulz posting on the wrong account.

  6. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    If you dont know about the class, please dont make stuff up about it. Burg is in extremely good position and giving them any more damage means rendering on most fights other classes useless.
    Silly, my Main Main is a Burg. I am just saying that for ST dps the class should be at number two spot, right behind the finger waggler (Rk) but ONLY if they get position. No one is even mentioning Burg while they mention every other dps class in the book.


    Quote Originally Posted by CDingler View Post
    That argument is based on a false premise. Red doesn't have to move at all. It is a higher burst DPS whereas blue is more sustained. So red is going to kill everything quicker, excepting for the higher mobs and bosses. Because of that, the longer range of red allows them to kill most mobs before they get to melee range. So even on the rare occasions when you are forced to move, say tank loses agro or soloing an RT, red will have done more damage than blue before it is forced to move.
    You premise is false because mobility should be a trade off of something, but with equal DPS it trades off nothing except for making soloing RT's not a viable option for Red Line. If damage per hit is traded off for mobility then there is a trade-off. This can be done by increasing damage of the Red Line as the Blue line apparently is working fine (since one of my Mains is a blue-line hunter I can attest to it working pretty well over all).
    Also, looking at it from a RL perspective, I am much more likely to not only hit my target but to do lethal damage to it if I am standing still rather than moving (even in a moving vehicle). In fact until the USA's new Main Battle Tank the scenario for tank battles is move, acquire target, stop, zero target in, fire, move. One just does not engage in tank battles in real life while moving. Also all these Hollywood gun battle scenes where people are running and rolling while shooting is fiction. You do that and you'll hit nothing. So this game giving you the option to run while firing a bow with any accuracy at all is beyond reality in and of itself, but is almost needed for a game such as this. but it should be with that trade-off over the real life tactic of standing still, aiming and shooting.
    Making Brides Princesses Again!

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milii View Post
    You premise is false because mobility should be a trade off of something, but with equal DPS it trades off nothing except for making soloing RT's not a viable option for Red Line. If damage per hit is traded off for mobility then there is a trade-off. This can be done by increasing damage of the Red Line as the Blue line apparently is working fine (since one of my Mains is a blue-line hunter I can attest to it working pretty well over all).
    Also, looking at it from a RL perspective, I am much more likely to not only hit my target but to do lethal damage to it if I am standing still rather than moving (even in a moving vehicle). In fact until the USA's new Main Battle Tank the scenario for tank battles is move, acquire target, stop, zero target in, fire, move. One just does not engage in tank battles in real life while moving. Also all these Hollywood gun battle scenes where people are running and rolling while shooting is fiction. You do that and you'll hit nothing. So this game giving you the option to run while firing a bow with any accuracy at all is beyond reality in and of itself, but is almost needed for a game such as this. but it should be with that trade-off over the real life tactic of standing still, aiming and shooting.
    Range is the trade off.

    You're supporting your argument by comparing RL to a game based on a fictional realm? Ummm, OK. Well, if we're going to do that, a much closer analogy would be Navy SEALs (blue) and Marine Snipers (red). SEALs are masters of lethal shooting while on the move and snipers are masters of spreading the love from a long way off. Not to mention the numerous examples throughout history of people highly skilled at shooting on the move. But regardless of that, my point from earlier is that it is not an either/or proposition. With a few relatively simple changes to red, you can have both lines as viable high-end ST ranged DPS, with little effect beyond a player's play style and situational functionality.
    CAANJAAL - Like Visa and Savoir Faire, he's everywhere!!!
    "If you find yourself in a fair fight, you've already lost!"

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDingler View Post
    That argument is based on a false premise. Red doesn't have to move at all. It is a higher burst DPS whereas blue is more sustained. So red is going to kill everything quicker, excepting for the higher mobs and bosses. Because of that, the longer range of red allows them to kill most mobs before they get to melee range. So even on the rare occasions when you are forced to move, say tank loses agro or soloing an RT, red will have done more damage than blue before it is forced to move. That being said, I wouldn't use red for soloing RTs or anything along that line, because blue's sustained DPS would win out in a situation where the Hunter is the only threat. But, I'd be almost solely red for group content that wouldn't require any kiting. And that is where the beauty would lie in evening the two lines up. It would cater to both play styles and also return situational functionality to the class.
    Again, there would be no reason to ever use red if blue did more sustained unless you were trying to 1-shot creeps in moors. This is the situation right now in reality. Red has great burst but is only used for 1 shotting things while blue line is mobile and is used for dps in every single fight in the game because it simply does more and has no real drawbacks. For rks and wardens, the real sustained dps classes, movement causes them to lose dps, warden due to range and rk due to inductions. Hunter can continually dps in blue without those issues. Also, there is basically no fight where 40m range offers a real advantage over 30m range simply because the majority of other dps classes are 30m range and you want to group near other dps for captain banner to hit all.

    Also, there are many fights where mechanics force you to move.
    In Throne alone:
    1st boss: Hunters gets punted by boss
    2nd boss: Kiting off mumak eye
    3rd: Vadokhar punt
    4th: Vortexes
    5th: Crawlers/Crawler Eyes

    When the majority of more challenging fights have movement required, there should not be a mobile dps line that does the same or more than one than cannot dps while moving.
    Last edited by dselden; Jan 12 2018 at 03:08 PM.
    Eredor-Champion, Ereworn-Minstrel, Ereshorn-Runekeeper, Eresworn-Hunter, Eremourn-Burglar, Erehorn-Captain, Erelorn-Warden, Eretorn-Lore-Master, Erescorn-Guardian... And Erecorn-Master Farmer

  9. #134
    Just quoting you, cause you brought up the traitline descriptions from the ingame traittrees and misinterpreting the wording so it suits your point of view like several others. Nothing personal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happychappy View Post
    Huntsman
    A mobile, harassing mid-ranged Hunter.
    A mid-ranged mobile harasser who deals sustained damage while free to move. They unload rapid volleys, dealing damage quickly.

    Sustained Mobile DPS.
    Dictionary:
    sustained:
    Meaning - lasting, enduring.
    It doesn't say anything about how much damage it should be. It says, the damage doesn't drop while moving. The history of blue line (pre U19) implies that it should not deal the highest damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happychappy View Post
    Bowmaster
    A stationary, long-ranged Hunter dealing great damage.
    A stationary, high-impact line that rains bursts of damage upon the assailant, using a rhythm of generating and consuming Focus to maximize DPS.

    Burst DPS.
    Stationary, high impact.
    Dictionary: high meaning great altitude, big, in some circumstances: highest
    great damage
    Dictionary:
    great:
    Meaning - considerable, outstanding

    Why should blue have HIGHER damage than red? Acording to these quotes from traittree, red has to deal HIGH, GREAT damage, blue dps doesn't have to drop while moving. Your quotes don't say anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happychappy View Post
    Trapper of Foes
    Uses AoE and CC ranged skills to hinder foes.
    Focuses on sustained damage, AoE, and CC, controlling the flow of battle while providing buffs for allies to gain leverage on their opponents.

    Sustained Dps.
    Again sustained damage, using your line of thought it should deal as much damage as blue. Despite the fact, that I really like yellow line, that would be totally wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Happychappy View Post
    Yellow is even described as AoE, it clearly isn't. Not Champ AoE comparable anyway.
    Concerning AoE:
    Blue Aoe-skills: Split Shot, Low Cut, Cry of the Hunter - a total of 3
    Red Aoe-skills: Rain of Arrows, Low Cut, Cry of the Hunter - a total of 3
    Yellow AoE-skills: Triple Trap, Deadly Decoy, Explosive Arrow, Rain of Thorns, Low Cut, Cry of the Hunter - a total of 7
    Yellow has the most AoE-skills. It's just, they deal pathetic damage compared to Rain of Arrows. The description doesn't say anything about the damage of AoE-skills. It says: uses AoE to hinder foes. The majority of yellow's AoE-skills do exactly that: hinder foes. Low Cut snares, Triple Trap and Rain of Thorns root, Deadly Decoy distracts and stuns, Cry of the Hunter dazes
    Last edited by Tatharil; Jan 12 2018 at 05:20 PM. Reason: aunt edith said I forgot Cry of the Hunter
    Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
    Trapper of Foes needs better tools to fulfill it's supporting(CC and offensive debuffs) and DoT role.

  10. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by dselden View Post
    Again, there would be no reason to ever use red if blue did more sustained unless you were trying to 1-shot creeps in moors. This is the situation right now in reality. Red has great burst but is only used for 1 shotting things while blue line is mobile and is used for dps in every single fight in the game because it simply does more and has no real drawbacks
    This and this is why Red-line needs a boost. But it still shouldn't do more dps than a Burg positioned behind a foe.
    Making Brides Princesses Again!

  11. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatharil View Post
    Just quoting you, cause you brought up the traitline descriptions from the ingame traittrees and misinterpreting the wording so it suits your point of view like several others. Nothing personal.


    Dictionary:
    sustained:
    Meaning - lasting, enduring.
    It doesn't say anything about how much damage it should be. It says, the damage doesn't drop while moving. The history of blue line (pre U19) implies that it should not deal the highest damage.



    Stationary, high impact.
    Dictionary: high meaning great altitude, big, in some circumstances: highest
    great damage
    Dictionary:
    great:
    Meaning - considerable, outstanding

    Why should blue have HIGHER damage than red? Acording to these quotes from traittree, red has to deal HIGH, GREAT damage, blue dps doesn't have to drop while moving. Your quotes don't say anything else.


    Again sustained damage, using your line of thought it should deal as much damage as blue. Despite the fact, that I really like yellow line, that would be totally wrong.

    Concerning AoE:
    Blue Aoe-skills: Split Shot, Low Cut, Cry of the Hunter - a total of 3
    Red Aoe-skills: Rain of Arrows, Low Cut, Cry of the Hunter - a total of 3
    Yellow AoE-skills: Triple Trap, Deadly Decoy, Explosive Arrow, Rain of Thorns, Low Cut, Cry of the Hunter - a total of 7
    Yellow has the most AoE-skills. It's just, they deal pathetic damage compared to Rain of Arrows. The description doesn't say anything about the damage of AoE-skills. It says: uses AoE to hinder foes. The majority of yellow's AoE-skills do exactly that: hinder foes. Low Cut snares, Triple Trap and Rain of Thorns root, Deadly Decoy distracts and stuns, Cry of the Hunter dazes
    I never said Blue should be higher than red. I just don't see why red should be higher than blue. Which ever is the highest, i don't think it should be too far ahead of the other trait trees.

    To be honest i think they should all do similar dps. Yellow being the least due to CC/debuffs etc. Red more bursty and long range, blue mobile sustained and yellow sustained with additional trap damage under the right circumstances to boost its dps.

    And it was not to suit my point. You are the one analysing it to suit your own point of view.

    Blue-"Dealing damage Quickly". "rapid Volleys". It certainly does that :P

    But we still need more Aoe to give Champions a rival. They are the undisputed kings of AoE with no contenders. At least Hunters have RKs and Burgs barking at their heels.

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milii View Post
    Silly, my Main Main is a Burg. I am just saying that for ST dps the class should be at number two spot, right behind the finger waggler (Rk) but ONLY if they get position. No one is even mentioning Burg while they mention every other dps class in the book.

    Yet you have no idea about burglar in group setting it seems (which seems to be common thing with the class as someone just asked burg buff on cordovans stream, facepalm). No their DPS should never be 2nd best, because as I said burglar being on top tier it means other classes get irrelevant since burglars as a big groups are too strong. Burg stacking is a problem when they produce really high dps, rendering any kind of dps races faceroll. Why would you take other dps class but one rk for debuffs over them on that scenario? One increases dps of whole group A LOT and they stack. In same package one gets virtually one of the best damage increasing class and one of best dps classes, why would you pick classes that are inferior on dps and do no damage increasing.

    This is why I said only feedback that should be ever listened is from raiders who know game inside out or we get seriously badly balanced game. Bigger mess than we already have.


    Edit:
    On balanced game all classes of warden, champion, hunter, rk and beorning would (hopefull didnt forget any class) be ahead of burglar on single target dps. Some just mariginally but some a lot, it would stilll mean burglar would be relevant in groups but it would also mean classes that have no buffing ability to the extend of burglar would get spot in groups as dps.
    Last edited by siipperi; Jan 13 2018 at 07:12 AM.

  13. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymore View Post
    All I know is that my Warden was the best for killing Grumpy Trees in Frostbluff and Champion the worst. Long ranged other players would beat you out of a quick kill.
    Haha, the ultimate Grumpwood challenge. Nah, my champion is very quick with her bow and never uses Let Fly skill;P

  14. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Digaloo View Post
    What do people think.
    I think people need to get their head out of DPS meters and just play the game otherwise LOTRO will go the same way as WoW did and end up with homogenised classes because of players whining that x class has 1% more dps than theirs.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

    Voltaire

  15. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferathyr View Post
    I think people need to get their head out of DPS meters and just play the game otherwise LOTRO will go the same way as WoW did and end up with homogenised classes because of players whining that x class has 1% more dps than theirs.
    This would be a pretty valid point if it was a 1% DPS difference. Instead the difference is large enough that many traitlines/classes simply cannot get a place in groups since they can't compete with the top traitline for their role.
    ~ I tank with a Beorning, my opinion is invalid. ~

  16. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Happychappy View Post
    Blue-"Dealing damage Quickly". "rapid Volleys". It certainly does that :P
    Quick means fast(number of attacks per time not damage per time), not high or great. You only want it to mean high/great.
    Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
    Trapper of Foes needs better tools to fulfill it's supporting(CC and offensive debuffs) and DoT role.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferathyr View Post
    I think people need to get their head out of DPS meters and just play the game otherwise LOTRO will go the same way as WoW did and end up with homogenised classes because of players whining that x class has 1% more dps than theirs.
    Lotro has already gone the way of WoW. That happened when Mines of Moria went live.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferathyr View Post
    I think people need to get their head out of DPS meters and just play the game otherwise LOTRO will go the same way as WoW did and end up with homogenised classes because of players whining that x class has 1% more dps than theirs.
    You can't ignore such things if you are going to do the hardest content in the game. Half arsed rotations and random group setups worked in hardest content in way back, but the most hardest content is simply harder than it used to be (majority of the game easier to compensate that I guess). Problem rises when other class does 90k DPS and other class 40k DPS. Both classes are DPS classes, or supposed to be historically... Then we have classes that struggle to break 20k DPS (all examples in groups)... Why is there need for such DPS disparity especially between everyones DPS specs. I'm all fine if tank class like guardian and DPS classes DPS difference would be like 100% but when they do 400% or more DPS it's just ridiculous and unneeded. 100% difference is already to the point of full blown carry but 400% is on the tier of undermanning.

    So I ask you. Knowing you can take one guy with you in the group and other guy offers double the DPS potentially, why would you choose other guy who does that much less DPS(if there is no other bias to choosing process)?

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Yet you have no idea about burglar in group setting it seems (which seems to be common thing with the class as someone just asked burg buff on cordovans stream, facepalm). No their DPS should never be 2nd best, because as I said burglar being on top tier it means other classes get irrelevant since burglars as a big groups are too strong. Burg stacking is a problem when they produce really high dps, rendering any kind of dps races faceroll. Why would you take other dps class but one rk for debuffs over them on that scenario? One increases dps of whole group A LOT and they stack. In same package one gets virtually one of the best damage increasing class and one of best dps classes, why would you pick classes that are inferior on dps and do no damage increasing.

    This is why I said only feedback that should be ever listened is from raiders who know game inside out or we get seriously badly balanced game. Bigger mess than we already have.


    Edit:
    On balanced game all classes of warden, champion, hunter, rk and beorning would (hopefull didnt forget any class) be ahead of burglar on single target dps. Some just mariginally but some a lot, it would stilll mean burglar would be relevant in groups but it would also mean classes that have no buffing ability to the extend of burglar would get spot in groups as dps.
    You do realise that this game could have three clearly defined and different burglar specs, each doing a specific job and filing a separate role (Gambler - top tier sustained dps for raiding but no debuffs and much reduced cc, QK - burst dps and some cc & debuffs for pvp & solo/small group, MM - reduced dps, cc and support for fellowship & raid content) without one spec bleeding into the other. Just takes a little bit of imagination, some original thought and a lot of looking outside of the meta box that you're firmly wedged into.

  20. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    You do realise that this game could have three clearly defined and different burglar specs, each doing a specific job and filing a separate role (Gambler - top tier sustained dps for raiding but no debuffs and much reduced cc, QK - burst dps and some cc & debuffs for pvp & solo/small group, MM - reduced dps, cc and support for fellowship & raid content) without one spec bleeding into the other. Just takes a little bit of imagination, some original thought and a lot of looking outside of the meta box that you're firmly wedged into.
    Someone thinking rather than hating.
    Slipknot just wants Burgs to be second class toons with no real grouping viability because every other class would do what they could do better, including DPS while damage buffing.
    Reason why no one is mentioning Burgs isn't because they aren't broken but because they are so broken everyone ignores them.
    Making Brides Princesses Again!

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milii View Post
    Someone thinking rather than hating.
    Slipknot just wants Burgs to be second class toons with no real grouping viability because every other class would do what they could do better, including DPS while damage buffing.
    Reason why no one is mentioning Burgs isn't because they aren't broken but because they are so broken everyone ignores them.
    Thing is 2 burglar strategy already has highest DPS yield at the moment... Everyone who has raided actively in the game knows negative effect burglar as top tier dps has to the fights and to rest of DPS and their possibilities to get into groups. Already burglar is better on DPS than champion and their group buffing ensures that there is no use for champion class at all and it will stay like that as long as burglar is better DPS than champion. It will be same situation if RK is significantly better than hunter. These are just facts.

    Judging your comments I'm starting to believe you don't have max level burglar, which kinda makes me ask have you done Mordor instances with burglar? This whole discussion is about the end game and champions and other classes usability in there.

  22. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatharil View Post
    Quick means fast(number of attacks per time not damage per time), not high or great. You only want it to mean high/great.
    Your interpretation again.

    "Bursts of damage" does not necessarily mean high dps. Whether its "great" or not.

    Still nothing here to suggest red should be better than blue dps. Damage per second is sustained damage. Burst, even though its Great, may not be sustained dps.

    Nothing suggests one is better than the other though really. Only that blue is sustained and red is Burst. Which is what i pointed out.

    But as i said i think they should be closer. But you obviously want red to be ahead. Good luck with that lol.

    Lead the Charge
    Uses Tactical and Melee attacks to deal damage.
    Lead the Charge Captains inflict heavy damage to their foes while enhancing their allies' prowess.

    The Claw
    Consumes Wrath to Deal Crushing Damage.
    Empowering both Bear and Man, this line focuses on overpowering foes with devastating attacks.

    I wouldn't see too much into it.
    Last edited by Happychappy; Jan 13 2018 at 12:11 PM.

  23. #148
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    Absolutely OP. Champs were always meant to be top dps aoe and ST. In raid 2 melee/2 ranged, tactical should always be the dps group.
    Once we started to join throne t2 to be in support group i could see this mess coming. Well, those with alts enjoy the game. Those with only champ as main and end game char, try another stuff, theres a lot things out there.

  24. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    This whole discussion is about the end game and champions and other classes usability in there.
    Maybe the discussion is bass akwards then and should be making the instances more champion and other classes desired by the way they are designed. But then it has already been mentioned that Champs are good to clear trash mobs in these instances but people also want champs to be the top of the DPS Single Target at the time; what's next? That Champs should also be able to tank as they are topping out DPS in all situations?

    I think you are just a Champion that wants everything handed to them.
    Making Brides Princesses Again!

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milii View Post
    Maybe the discussion is bass akwards then and should be making the instances more champion and other classes desired by the way they are designed. But then it has already been mentioned that Champs are good to clear trash mobs in these instances but people also want champs to be the top of the DPS Single Target at the time; what's next? That Champs should also be able to tank as they are topping out DPS in all situations?

    I think you are just a Champion that wants everything handed to them.

    Rk and hunter are very good on clearing trash. Not only they eliminate the most dangerous foes faster than champions would ever do but also do relatively good aoe both, both capable of doing well over 100k. Burst damage that rk and hunter both have is often vital even on trash pulls, where hunter seems to average good 200-220k dps burst on the first target.
    Champions do more damage in aoe but not even close to the double the damage differential that hunter and rk does on st. And as said, if there would be one melee damage class to be taken into group it would be most likely burglar. Not only it does significantly more dps than champion but increases everyones dps good 20% or so in red, resulting the total damage group benefits from such class well over 100k dps in raid size, compared to champions ~40k (not sure, it might be even lower now) if you lucky and extremely good (which red burg dont really need to be and still have great group increasing benefit).

    You can think what you like, I dont really care. I care this game and people I play with so they can have more fun with their classes and not forced on give up their mains because of the bad balance in the game. And if you would open your eyes you would see nowhere have I suggested particular buff to champion class. Im merely telling how situation is at the moment and something needs to be done.

    P.s. You avoided my question so I assume I was right.

 

 
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