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  1. #1
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    Difficulty of Abyss of Mordath?

    Hey everyone! As some of you know, I spent time this past weekend observing and assisting with raid testing on this server. I am aware of certain issues with the boss encounters, but am hoping to start a conversation about their overall difficulty since I am unsure what tier different raid groups were attempting. Do you feel that Tier I is reasonable for a PUG? Is Tier II challenging enough? There are bugs that may prevent definitive answers, but regardless, it would be great to hear about your experiences within these encounters thus far and what we should be looking into addressing before the next beta round.

  2. #2
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    The problem is , we are not 100% what is WAI or not.

    When it comes to t2 , i think the trash mobs are overall in a good spot.

    The first boss seems almost finished and is more fun this week comparing to beta #3.
    A few things :

    1) The devoted supplicants damage buff are on a great spot atm and allow tanks to bring back key cooldowns in their rotation.
    2) Same as previous builds , the eye-sacrifice-port does not always apply a DOT. Also , if it does happen but a player gets a loading issue , he can die without having a chance to heal him.
    3) The spider sometimes heals the bosses to full when sacrificed. WAI ?
    4) The ghosts changed , there's more spawning and they don't all induct together. WAI ?
    5) The difficulty difference between t2 and t2c is quite big and welcome in my eyes.
    6) The conjuction buff on the bosses doesn't seem to work very reliably. WAI ?
    7) The buffs from rhino , tainted bite thingie from spider seem to do decent damage now. Also , i like the mini spider root thing , its an annoying but alright mechanic! : D
    8) Other than the heal , the ent dying doesn't do anything to the bosses from what i've seen. Is the full heal WAI ?
    9) If everything get to work as intented , for example , if the eye port always applies the root/dot , then perhaps the timer should go back to 10 minutes.

    It would be nice for a dev to tell us what is working properly or not , so that we can answer if the fight is hard enough more effectively.
    Perhaps other players can provide more feedback.

    I am hoping we see at least 2 more builds ( i know next week won't have any BR ) , with more flag-ports added to the next bosses so that we can test next bosses more extensively without spending time on the way there. Also , allow us to skip trash more effectively to save valuable time. First build had more ports straight away which got removed for some reason. Take us straight to the bosses , at least when it comes to the first 2 , the trash on the way are fine as they are at the moment and don't require any more testing imo.
    Last edited by BotLike; Nov 20 2017 at 12:05 PM.

  3. #3
    I second BotLike's comments - it would really be helpful to know what is WAI and what is not. A couple of other points on the first boss fight (T2C):

    1) Would like to reiterate BotLike's comments - the buff from the Devoted Supplicants is fine and does not need to be nerfed.
    2) It would really make this a lot less RNG-centric of an encounter if you could make it where the bosses' aggro target could not be ported. We had several wipes caused by the bosses turning on melee DPS when one of the main tanks was ported.
    3) The fight is very melee unfriendly - as-is I see raid groups bringing only hunters and RKs for DPS.
    4) If the full heal from the Ent is WAI, the enrage timer might be a little over-tuned.
    5) It would be nice if there was some kind of indicator as to whether the side bosses are in blood or not. As-is, you can't be sure that they are correctly positioned. I'd hate to fail challenge due to that.
    6) This is a kinda difficult fight for the first boss in a raid. It's early and people will be getting better gear (our raid group only uses equipment available on live for the fight), but I could see a situation where this becomes a blocker for progress to the other two bosses like Mumaks was in Throne. Not calling for a nerf at all, to be clear, but it definitely looks like it could be tough fight for less experienced raiding kins.

    Overall this is a really nice fight. With some fine-tuning it has the potential to be one of the better raid bosses in LOTRO.
    .
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  4. #4
    I appreciate the Chance you give us here

    About trash:
    Till boss 1
    1.The total difficulty is not bad.
    2.The trash is in my opinion a little Long.
    3.Only the middle part with nurnoths,maggots,the revenant and pitcrawlers is really good balanced and cant be facerolled.
    4.I suggest making less trash waves in general and making the first and the last part before the first boss harder/more interesting

    Till boss 2
    1:The trash is really really easy and even a Little short.
    2:I dont want to have to much trash but 3-4 well balanced and challenging add waves would be cool.
    3:Make this trash harder then the trash from the start-boss 1.

    Till boss 3

    I cant judge on this but:make it harder then the previous trash waves in the whole instance.
    It should be quite hard to get to the last boss.

    Conclusion on trash:Instead of many boring and easy i would like to see Shorter and less trash waves in numbers.
    They should be harder/more challenging and well thought(like the middle part till boss 1).


    First Boss:

    I was suprised how much of the Feedback from: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...back-(Round-2)
    got implemented this week.Last week the fight was to easy and some mechanics were ignoreable/notworking.

    I really like the difficulty of this first boss now.Its not easy but not on a super hardcore level like unbroken or so was.

    I can agree a lot about mechanics(and if they are working as indented) with botlike:

    1) The devoted supplicants damage buff are on a great spot atm and allow tanks to bring back key cooldowns in their rotation.
    2) Same as previous builds , the eye-sacrifice-port does not always apply a DOT. Also , if it does happen but a player gets a loading issue , he can die without having a chance to heal him.
    3) The spider sometimes heals the bosses to full when sacrificed. WAI ?
    4) The ghosts changed , there's more spawning and they don't all induct together. WAI ?
    5) The difficulty difference between t2 and t2c is quite big and welcome in my eyes.
    6) The conjuction buff on the bosses doesn't seem to work very reliably. WAI ?
    7) The buffs from rhino , tainted bite thingie from spider seem to do decent damage now. Also , i like the mini spider root thing , its an annoying but alright mechanic! : D
    8) Other than the heal , the ent dying doesn't do anything to the bosses from what i've seen. Is the full heal WAI ?
    9) I would leave the timer as it is and dont increase it.If noone is able to kill the first boss on live in the first 2 weeks you could maybe increase it.
    10) Give the 2 highpristess a +inc melee dmg buff. At the Moment there is no reason to take a champ/red burg/red warden as melee dps here since ranged got a big advantage the whole fight.


    I cant say anything about boss 2 yet.

    I hope that we will see a good balanced encounter ones the raid hits live.And if that takes till january ist fine aswell aslong ist good balanced and as bugfree as possible.
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  5. #5
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    Boss 1 T2 non-challenge is very easy, so I'm sure it won't be a blocker for less experienced kins. They can always do non-challenge first and continue progressing on other bosses and then come back trying T2C later.
    T2C feels in a good spot for a first boss atm. Let's see if there still will be new mechanics added in the next builds. Enrage timer doesn't need a nerf. I hope the other bosses will be significantly more challenging though.

    Bosses 2 and 3 are way too unfinished to give reasonable feedback concerning difficulty.
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  6. #6
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    I think difficulty is in a good place right now, however I was sustaining 130-150k DPS on the fight alongside 3 other DPS with a Yellow Burg and Red Captain, I think 9 minutes is insufficient for most groups to achieve the challenge.

    Other than that, the full heals don't seem WAI, they're random and I've seen them proc from all three bosses, and none of them. How is that supposed to work?

    It's fairly obvious that the bosses are meant to "die" and not be killed, for the buffs to be absorbed by the bosses however lag and bursty DPS makes it really easy to accidentally kill them and waste 8 minutes of a fight. They should just have 1.5million more HP and be "absorbed" 1.5million HP earlier, problem solved.

    Boss 2 hits very, very hard to non-tanks, though I haven't looked at the fight well enough to know whether or not I'm doing something particularly wrong, capped mits reduces the hit with Wages of Fear to "only" doing 150% of my morale (with a tome of D and medium armour mits cap). If this is part of a mechanic that I am missing (likely) then fair enough.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drachyn View Post
    Hey everyone! As some of you know, I spent time this past weekend observing and assisting with raid testing on this server. I am aware of certain issues with the boss encounters, but am hoping to start a conversation about their overall difficulty since I am unsure what tier different raid groups were attempting. Do you feel that Tier I is reasonable for a PUG? Is Tier II challenging enough? There are bugs that may prevent definitive answers, but regardless, it would be great to hear about your experiences within these encounters thus far and what we should be looking into addressing before the next beta round.
    Hey drachyn! Me and my kinship only ran T2 succesfully, we finished first and second boss T2C.

    BOSS 1:

    I think difficulity is at spot. Enrage timer is hard enough to reach for most kinships, unless they have exceptional dps, bosses are hitting hard enough, personally I like the fight and I would definitelly keep it like that.

    BUGS:
    When the spider spawns, he gets stuck in a wall, when you move him out of the room, he gets stuck on the left side of wall.

    BOSS 2:
    I would suggest nerfing wages of fear by 25% just to avoid 1 shots on live servers, we had plenty of one shots happening on bullroarer with full mits gear/morale gear.

    BUGS:
    When the boss reaches 1 morale, he does nothing, assuming it's a bug and you need to have spirit at full HP before you kill him (thats what we did)
    When he does the purple cloud animation, it lags very very bad. Freezes client for like 10 seconds.

    Overall I think this fight will be decently balanced when you fix the challenge. So far I really like the raid, keep it up!
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  8. #8
    The first boss fight seem pretty decent in terms of difficulty atm, though i am afraid it is kinda too much of a dps race atm, rather than actually the mechanics being too much, and causing wipes. This might differ alot though ofc, as this fight gets more polished over time.
    All the feedback here generally looks nice.

    Am just gonna address the biggest problem for me in this fight; it was LAGG. The fight has serious lagg issues atm, especially when the Sulokil spawned somehow. On the prior BR patch, there was no lagg issues for the raid team at all, and i suspect it is cus tooltips on both of the bosses got added in Escort Vitals 2 and 3.
    My computer is normally not strong enough to run smoothly in a raid without turning on Social Options - Effect Display Options, so i only see my own skills used on bosses. With the tooltips of both the bosses that has been added since last BR patch, ALL skills -debuff/buffs/dots from all the raid is visible AT ALL TIMES on the Escort Vital tooltips, allthough all effect display options is turned on. Furthermore there's no way to remove them from my UI, as i can with the Social Options - Effect Display Options.

    Reason why i mainly suspect it is because of the Escort Vital tooltips is because they're also in the OD raid, with the lagg being totally similar. For what some players experience lagg when sulokil spawned, i don't know.
    Last edited by Seodric; Nov 20 2017 at 05:06 PM.
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  9. #9
    Thanks for opening this thread!

    The trash to boss 1 difficulty is very good, i like how challenging it is to clear it but i think there are way too many pulls before reaching the first boss. Take down at least 1 of each type.

    Boss 1:

    -Feels a little awkward to get ported to the sacrifice table and not be bound or get any debuff. Probably needs fixing so we always get tied to the table.
    -This port might be really bad though if one of the tanks gets it (we had our warden tanking the spirits ported and it was a major issue, since the adds were loose and they heal the bosses), make some flags or something they pick up at the start of the fight so they are immune to the eye for the whole fight.
    -The ent feels very anticlimatic as in he was adding no difficulty to the fight at all, most of the times this round on beta he wasnt even healing the main bosses, so im not sure why is he there or the purpose of his existence.
    -I loved the devoted ones and their dmg debuff after they sacrifice. We got one once that was a little coward and wasnt devoted enough, so he didnt sacrificed himself, instead he stood in front of the table just doing some weird animation and then we got no more devoted ones, might check that for a possible glitch.
    -The spider gets stucked in a wall sometimes, might change spawn location more to the center of the back wall so he runs straight into the main room and not get stucked.
    -Still not sure why sometimes they both full heal, or just one of them full heal, after killing one of the spoiled (randomly any of them).
    -Overall difficulty seemed fine to go like this on live, if you fix the little details mentioned above it will be very challenging.


    Trash to Boss 2:

    I think the number of trash pulls is fine, but i would like it to be harder than what we got this beta round. You know its not hard enough when u can ignore what gives you the green puddle induction debuff + permasilence meanwhile, and just aoe kill everything.

    Boss 2:

    Probably too early to say if its going to be easy or not, need to work on some more mecanics i guess. The fps drop to the ground there with the UI npc we get, its totally unnecessary, get rid of that please since its actually screening all the buffs/debuffs from boss and this is major cause for screen freezing. The damage seemed fine once you learn the mecanics we had, some ppl still died but once you get used to how to get rid of the bubble + not turn your back to boss, fight gets good.
    Not sure whats the point of making the challenge to full heal the Spear, besides making you stay on the fight longer than you need to kill the boss.


    Boss 3:

    Dragon looks amazing! i loved that place and i cant wait for the whole fight to be released! im gonna be sad if it doesnt say something like draigoch: scatter you rats! ala draigoch :3

  10. #10

    Its nice you all can test this out

    I would like to participate too. I have a mini in Mordor and hunter in the eyes and guard tavern.

  11. #11
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    The raid is not yet ready to go live. I honestly hope you have big plans/changes coming if this is the last bullroarer build : D
    Only the trash seem on a good spot.

    The first boss still has the same issues like before and more.
    The port does not always root/dots. If it happens on a player that has loading issues , you barely get a chance to heal him at all. ( he gets damaged while loading and can't be targetted ) However , we didn't get any ports on tanks , which is great , unless we were just lucky ; D
    The spider sometimes causes a full heal when sacrificed , sometimes not. Maybe the ent does it too , not sure , didn't happen to us at least.
    The blood spirits seem broken , they do nothing but weak random attacks now. That causes the fight to become too easy even on challenge because of different class composition.
    There is a new mechanic from the ent sacrifice that needs a boost imo. The rest of the mechanics from rhino/spider and devoted are on a great spot.
    The conjuction buff on the mini bosses seem to do nothing ( or best case scenario , its something way too complicated to figure out , that you don't even need in the first place. )

    The second boss causes HUGE lag when he gets the corruptions ( the purple lights animation ).
    Some of the javelin skills still cause too much damage on t2. ( even with proper debuffing , if it works at all )
    The 2nd boss talks over and over again when he resets. Please remove or shorten the drama dialogue after first try.
    The smoke wall mechanic seems interesting but should happen faster.

    Etc etc

    Maybe other players can contribute too , to me it looks like Beta #1 material still when it comes to bosses.
    No more beta builds on live please.

    And PLEASE , for the love of Eru , STOP THE STUPID LOREMASTER BEAR FROM BEING BEST TANK IN THE GAME.
    Last edited by BotLike; Dec 02 2017 at 02:36 PM.

  12. #12
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    I also don't think the raid is ready to go live.

    First boss seems to be in a good spot, I would definitelly keep it like this, the only thing that needs to be changed is:
    Port - when someone is being ported and he has long loading screen, he will die because he still take dmg.

    My group also tried to do boss 2 but i'm not sure what kind of feedback I can share.

    First of all - I think boss damage is fine in the spot it is but the adds are definitelly not fine. Every 60s 4 adds spawn and they keep respawning every 60s. You won't have time to kill them and then dps the boss so i'm not sure how devs planned this to be finished. I would definitelly reduce the amount of adds spawning or add a mechanic behind it. (perhaps x amount of time needed to remove corruptions off boss or adds will spawn, or if you kill the adds, they respawn again but definitelly not infinite amount of adds thats just broken) or second option is increase timer 2 minutes per adds wave instead of one.

    Second of all - Wages of Fear really need nerf big time. With proper LM/burg/champ debuffing, I got oneshot on my minstrel plenty of times having over 100k morale and T2 mitigations.



    Also the GM admitted that something is not working as intended in boss 2 fight regarding adds.
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  13. #13
    Apparently the first boss's Blood-Spirit adds are currently bugged with random aggro attacks, once that's fixed I feel that's in a good place.

    Second boss is currently bugged/way too extreme with the adds and the amount of damage they deal atm. Will be able to gauge how difficult it is next beta if it's tweaked.

    Greytooth 3rd/final (?) boss is currently not in yet.

    Fingar the Greedy is in. Not sure if he's supposed to be a boss by himself, or part of Greytooth's fight. Either way, he feels unfinished atm, so will reserve final judgement for when it's confirmed to be done. As is, though, boss doesn't deal nearly enough damage, skeletons stop spawning after a certain point, and the fight becomes fairly boring with his morale pool. Boost his damage, especially his belly flop AoE attack. His "Fire breath" attack also deals common damage atm, feels like it should be swapped to fire damage and also get increased damage as well.
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  14. #14
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    Raid difficulty needs to be increased, put more mechanics or bosses on palantir. No one should be able to full clear the instance on t2c the first day. Also, if you are capable, please change the loot rule from personal loot to a form of master looter so there is a guaranteed chance to get an armour piece and it will get rid of a chance that another kin will have a gear advantage.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanxcve View Post
    Raid difficulty needs to be increased, put more mechanics or bosses on palantir. No one should be able to full clear the instance on t2c the first day. Also, if you are capable, please change the loot rule from personal loot to a form of master looter so there is a guaranteed chance to get an armour piece and it will get rid of a chance that another kin will have a gear advantage.
    Increased in which way exactly? The only boss that most kins were able to defeat on T2C is boss 1, because boss 2 is not done and neither is boss 3/4.
    Also the only reason why most kins cleared boss 1 is, because this is beta 5. Raiding kins had so much time to learn mechanics of boss 1.
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  16. #16
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    Boss 1 T2C was too beatable this build primarily because of the Blood-Spirits being bugged. Still could do with a buff, IMO, other than spirits getting fixed, but it's a decent first boss as is.

    Boss 2 is likely a little overtuned with the adds at the moment. I'm cautious about calling for nerfs, though, as it's not like people were getting oneshot when they obeyed mechanics, it just seemed like organizing corruptions and DPS was going to be tricky, thus maybe the adds would be too much to handle whilst still being able to move the fight forward.

    If it were up to me, I'd say that you should have T2 with 2 shadow adds that spawn and implement a 'brazier' for challenge which unlocks and spawns 4. Nerf it if nobody clears it after a month, but I bet people would clear it. What's wrong with making T2C super hard? Not like there's a ton of gear progression that it looks like is locked behind Boss 2 T2C anyway.

    The idea of having to heal the 'Spear' dude to max and then kill the boss within 10 seconds is a pretty boring challenge, tbh. Pretty disappointed with Boss 2's challenge requirements, when i was very impressed by Boss one's. Much like anything, it's possible I've missed something about Challenge for Boss 2, but it seems pretty straight forward...

    Unless I'm wrong Wages of Fear is fine. Nobody in our raid got 1shot by it once we figured it out... Admittedly maybe reducing the damage would be a good idea so you can see the secondary mechanic from it, instead of just getting 1shot by it when you don't treat it properly. Similar deal with the regular Javelin skill.

    ----

    Agreed that a lot of people who spent a significant amount of time in Bullroarer will down Boss 1 day 1. It's the first boss, it's the easiest to access and has had mechanics active for the longest. That's just the reality of raiding, people with the ability to raid most days wind up with a significant advantage. That's life in general. Raiding firsts are a combination of skill, knowledge, organization and commitment. Credit goes to the people whom put forth those efforts and are able to organize enough skilled players to commit that kind of time.

    Where I'm kind of disappointed is that some Kins have gotten ported past the second boss and gotten the opportunity to see third boss, whilst others haven't (yay for bugged wall!). Doesn't make much sense to me that SSG with its new flag system didn't implement some flags we could grab for each boss so we could all do more testing, as opposed to relying on GMs to allow us to progress to test mechanics on the next boss. Disadvantage for those whom raid at (US) night time, when GMs aren't usually present, and limits the pool of players you have to test your content. Maybe something to think about for next multi-boss raid (if we get one).
    Last edited by canyouaddcolour; Dec 04 2017 at 06:34 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by canyouaddcolour View Post
    Boss 1 T2C was too beatable this build primarily because of the Blood-Spirits being bugged. Still could do with a buff, IMO, other than spirits getting fixed, but it's a decent first boss as is.

    Boss 2 is likely a little overtuned with the adds at the moment. I'm cautious about calling for nerfs, though, as it's not like people were getting oneshot when they obeyed mechanics, it just seemed like organizing corruptions and DPS was going to be tricky, thus maybe the adds would be too much to handle whilst still being able to move the fight forward.

    If it were up to me, I'd say that you should have T2 with 2 shadow adds that spawn and implement a 'brazier' for challenge which unlocks and spawns 4. Nerf it if nobody clears it after a month, but I bet people would clear it. What's wrong with making T2C super hard? Not like there's a ton of gear progression that it looks like is locked behind Boss 2 T2C anyway.

    The idea of having to heal the 'Spear' dude to max and then kill the boss within 10 seconds is a pretty boring challenge, tbh. Pretty disappointed with Boss 2's challenge requirements, when i was very impressed by Boss one's. Much like anything, it's possible I've missed something about Challenge for Boss 2, but it seems pretty straight forward...

    Unless I'm wrong Wages of Fear is fine. Nobody in our raid got 1shot by it once we figured it out... Admittedly maybe reducing the damage would be a good idea so you can see the secondary mechanic from it, instead of just getting 1shot by it when you don't treat it properly. Similar deal with the regular Javelin skill.

    ----

    Agreed that a lot of people who spent a significant amount of time in Bullroarer will down Boss 1 day 1. It's the first boss, it's the easiest to access and has had mechanics active for the longest. That's just the reality of raiding, people with the ability to raid most days wind up with a significant advantage. That's life in general. Raiding firsts are a combination of skill, knowledge, organization and commitment. Credit goes to the people whom put forth those efforts and are able to organize enough skilled players to commit that kind of time.

    Where I'm kind of disappointed is that some Kins have gotten ported past the second boss and gotten the opportunity to see third boss, whilst others haven't (yay for bugged wall!). Doesn't make much sense to me that SSG with its new flag system didn't implement some flags we could grab for each boss so we could all do more testing, as opposed to relying on GMs to allow us to progress to test mechanics on the next boss. Disadvantage for those whom raid at (US) night time, when GMs aren't usually present, and limits the pool of players you have to test your content. Maybe something to think about for next multi-boss raid (if we get one).

    First boss is good in the spot it is right now. Even with blood spirits being the way they are, they never were issue either way. With random aggro, they make the fight more chaotic. I really like the way it is atm.

    However I can't agree with you on boss 2, realistically it's not possible. GM already told me that they are aware of this and they will reduce the amount of adds or increase time per add wave. Wages of fear are broken in term of debuffing (if you fire lore boss or disable with burg he still does the same dmg) thats the part where it's broken. It seems like you figured out how it works and thats cool but regardless of that, it still needs change, light class people will get one shot regardless.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    First boss is good in the spot it is right now. Even with blood spirits being the way they are, they never were issue either way. With random aggro, they make the fight more chaotic. I really like the way it is atm.
    They weren't an issue? Did you always just let them roam, or did you tank them? If you tanked them, that either required a third tank, or for your non-dps target Tank to tank them, and you deal with the heals on the boss (can be worked around but still raises the dps requirement). The DPS requirement is significantly easier if there's no need for a third tank, or the blood-spirits don't heal the boss.

    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    However I can't agree with you on boss 2, realistically it's not possible. GM already told me that they are aware of this and they will reduce the amount of adds or increase time per add wave.
    60 seconds per add wave. 4 adds with 2.9 million morale each. Have to remove corruption on run in otherwise Tank gets 1shot (RK rock or WH OP). Lets say you want to kill them within 30 seconds so as to avoid the reapplication of the corruptions that's about 380k DPS. 3 Champs in Yellow with Red Captain + Ancient Craft on the 4 targets, 1-2 RKs as ranged AOE who can assist with AOE damage. There's other ways to deal with this, obviously, and if you go that route that's a really high dps requirement, but Champs are already really strong in the fight due to regular corruptions.

    I don't know, I'd prefer T2C be seen as near impossible initially than to be merely a footnote as it is currently. Adjusting it down after a month wouldn't bother me, so long as T2 was doable at release. There's no deed locked behind T2C, other than potentially the title. I'd prefer the raid to not be downed within the first week due to people's time spent on Bullroarer. I am cool, either way, I just really dislike the current T2C mechanic and want a reason to look forward to progressing on the raid over a certain period of time. Hypothetically halving the add spawns or something might mean Bullroarer Kins will clear Boss 2 T2C on Bullroarer this week. =/

    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    Wages of fear are broken in term of debuffing (if you fire lore boss or disable with burg he still does the same dmg) thats the part where it's broken. It seems like you figured out how it works and thats cool but regardless of that, it still needs change, light class people will get one shot regardless.
    Kin's only been in on Boss 2 for one night, so it's certainly possible that we were lucky and once we figured out Wages of Fear our Light Armours never got hit by it and thus one-shot. I'll take your word for it and they should nerf it if obeying the mechanic means you get 1shot regardless if you're light armour. Also, isn't Wages of Fear a ranged (tactical damage) javelin attack? Why would Disable/Fire-Lore affect it?
    Last edited by canyouaddcolour; Dec 04 2017 at 07:24 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by canyouaddcolour View Post
    They weren't an issue? Did you always just let them roam, or did you tank them? If you tanked them, that either required a third tank, or for your non-dps target Tank to tank them, and you deal with the heals on the boss (can be worked around but still raises the dps requirement). The DPS requirement is significantly easier if there's no need for a third tank, or the blood-spirits don't heal the boss.



    60 seconds per add wave. 4 adds with 2.9 million morale each. Have to remove corruption on run in otherwise Tank gets 1shot (RK rock or WH OP). Lets say you want to kill them within 30 seconds so as to avoid the reapplication of the corruptions that's about 380k DPS. 3 Champs in Yellow with Red Captain + Ancient Craft on the 4 targets, 1-2 RKs as ranged AOE who can assist with AOE damage. There's other ways to deal with this, obviously, and if you go that route that's a really high dps requirement, but Champs are already really strong in the fight due to regular corruptions.

    I don't know, I'd prefer T2C be seen as near impossible initially than to be merely a footnote as it is currently. Adjusting it down after a month wouldn't bother me, so long as T2 was doable. There's no deed locked behind T2, other than potentially the title. I'd prefer the raid to not be downed within the first week due to people's time spent on Bullroarer. I am cool, either way, I just really dislike the current T2C mechanic and want a reason to look forward to progressing on the raid over a certain period of time. Halving the add spawns or something might mean Bullroarer Kins will clear Boss 2 T2C on Bullroarer this week. =/



    Kin's only been in on Boss 2 for one night, so it's certainly possible that we were lucky and once we figured out Wages of Fear our Light Armours never got hit by it and thus one-shot. I'll take your word for it and they should nerf it if obeying the mechanic means you get 1shot regardless if you're light armour. Also, isn't Wages of Fear a ranged (tactical damage) javelin attack? Why would Disable/Fire-Lore affect it?

    There was no difference if you had third tank or not. It always depended on what group setup you had. We had warden always as third tank, now when there is no need for third tank, warden goes yellow to buff even more dps.

    There were many ideas not only by me, but other kins and the only thing that happened was multiple T2C raiding kins confirm second boss is broken. Pinion literally said it is broken.

    Wages of Fear is positional attack. It has nothing to do being tactical or physical, Disable/fire lore should affect it and it does not.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    There was no difference if you had third tank or not. It always depended on what group setup you had. We had warden always as third tank, now when there is no need for third tank, warden goes yellow to buff even more dps.

    There were many ideas not only by me, but other kins and the only thing that happened was multiple T2C raiding kins confirm second boss is broken. Pinion literally said it is broken.

    Wages of Fear is positional attack. It has nothing to do being tactical or physical, Disable/fire lore should affect it and it does not.
    You literally just said when you don't have to worry about the Blood-Spirits you get more DPS. The DPS requirement is the thing that makes Challenge interesting/you have to be on your toes/organized, with extra DPS you can be way less organized.

    Bullroarer build #3 had Mirkovic saying Boss 1 needed a significant nerf, too, IIRC, and a GM agreeing and have him skip it... Next build was good, fine, and not nerfed other than making mechanics work better and more reliably. I respect your opinion and understand you're coming from the experience with Naerband which was a joke, and maybe you're right. I just err on the side of not wanting to nerf a fight to the point where most raiding Kins kill it early on.

    Wages of Fear is literally a Warden ranged javelin skill. It would seem to be based off of that, therefore it should stand to reason that it's not in the 'melee damage' category.

    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Wages_of_Fear
    Last edited by canyouaddcolour; Dec 04 2017 at 07:39 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by canyouaddcolour View Post
    You literally just said when you don't have to worry about the Blood-Spirits you get more DPS. The DPS requirement is the thing that makes Challenge interesting/you have to be on your toes/organized, with extra DPS you can be way less organized.

    Bullroarer build #3 had Mirkovic saying Boss 1 needed a significant nerf, too, IIRC, and a GM agreeing and have him skip it... Next build was good, fine, and not nerfed other than making mechanics work better and more reliably.

    Wages of Fear is literally a Warden ranged javelin skill. It would seem to be based off of that, therefore it should stand to reason that it's not in the 'melee damage' category.

    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Wages_of_Fear

    I'm not saying they should nerf boss 1, i'm saying that for boss 1 i find it fun and challenging enough, if mirkovic can't get past it thats his problem

    They just need to change the way boss 2 is done
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    I'm not saying they should nerf boss 1, i'm saying that for boss 1 i find it fun and challenging enough, if mirkovic can't get past it thats his problem
    Blood Spirits being bugged as they are is a difference, though, it makes it so you can ignore them entirely instead of having to take them into account as a mechanic. If they fix them then the fight will be a good first boss for the raid, agreed.

    EDIT: Also, something that I haven't seen mentioned in the thread -- the way the fight (Boss 2) is setup with our 'Spear' Ally needing a large amount of heals results in a certain healing class having a near mandatory spot in the raid (or at the least it makes the goal relatively trivial for that class). I'm fine with that as the mechanic, as I'm not sure how you mess with that mechanic to the point where it's interesting and not too easy. Also like that it's that particular class that shines. Just making sure it's known by the devs that most Kins will see there being only one way to deal with that mechanic, even in T1.
    Last edited by canyouaddcolour; Dec 04 2017 at 07:51 PM.

  23. #23
    For this build:

    The trash didn't changed,still to many to easy trash waves and only a few well balanced ones.
    Read what I said above,reduce numbers of easy waves and increase difficulties from remaining ones to be on level with th middle part of was till boss 1.

    First boss:

    -to easy in this build and if this goes live like this it will be down on first day by many kins.

    - get the blood spirits back to the Build before with dealing quite some dmg when you got 8 on 1 Tank.
    - buff the teleport mechanic to be really dangerous, it's to easy to counter at the moment.
    - I would keep the fullheal on the ent, not sure if other coming solutions are really better. Don't make the dps race impossible, but don't make it to easy.
    I got th feeling that there was a secret nerv for outgoing dmg from highpristess or the supplicant buff is not that strong as shown in the tooltip.
    The whole fight feels way easier this week and I hope this will change again.

    +lagg is better
    + with returning to former difficult this fight will be really cool for boss 1.


    Boss 2:

    Keep it as it is now:

    If it is really to hard atm(what I doubt) you can Nerv it on t2c after 4-6 weeks live.
    Please give us the chance to at least try on the highest difficulty on live.
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasius View Post
    If it is really to hard atm(what I doubt) you can Nerv it on t2c after 4-6 weeks live.
    LOL that's not how progression should work.

    It's a 3-boss-raid that has been on public test server for 6 weeks, what do you expect? Of course it will be cleared within a few days.

    You should ask for more bosses and less BR testing weekends for the next raid, rather than making ridiculous suggestions such as it's okay to waste 4-6 weeks of peoples' time until devs fix a broken boss.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisplTru View Post
    LOL that's not how progression should work.

    It's a 3-boss-raid that has been on public test server for 6 weeks, what do you expect? Of course it will be cleared within a few days.

    You should ask for more bosses and less BR testing weekends for the next raid, rather than making ridiculous suggestions such as it's okay to waste 4-6 weeks of peoples' time until devs fix a broken boss.
    I agree, all that public testing on a 3-boss only raid is crazy imho. Tbh i didnt even know it was a 3 boss raid xD
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