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  1. #101
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    Some feedback concerning lootboxes.

    I opened around 200 of them in Beta #4 and i have good news and bad news : D

    Good news

    The chance to get teal gear is propably nerfed a LOT. I basically got around 1 teal piece every 50 lootboxes.
    That automatically sets lootbox gear pointless to gamble for.
    Getting the item you want straight from the box is almost impossible. There are a ton of items in the lootlist and while its ultra sad you can potentially get offhand/bracelet/earring which can be best-in-slot , realistic chances are : You are going to get a bad item.
    I got 4 teal items in total and all of them were useless for me.
    However , wait for the bad news : )

    Bad news

    As a draft average , expect 50 lootboxes to give you around 6k-6.5k ashes. This includes disenchants on purple/teal and cosmetic gear you get from them.
    This automatically makes lootboxes the best way to get ashes by far.
    Each purple/teal item that drops from them , returns the same ammount of ash that raid gear does , 160 and 320 ash respectively.
    However , things like tokens of service gear , crafting-instance gear and Mordor instance gear still return the same ammount of ash as they do on live , propably because the ash return depends on item level!!! ( 20/40/80 etc)

    This has to be fixed!

    It is pure pay to win.With 50 lootboxes you can ash barter around 4 best in slot jewels if this reaches live.
    Doing the same through gameplay will propably take months , thanks to the changes you made like no ash from landscape , slivers and mordor instance locks.
    Last edited by BotLike; Nov 20 2017 at 07:03 AM.

  2. #102
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    77
    *1 day chest lock on mordor instances.

    No. Just no!

    *Makin black steel keys char or even account bound.

    No. Just no!

    *Remove ash drops from mobs.

    No. Just no!

    *More stuff in lootboxes.

    No. Just no!

    Doesnt matter if its gear or cosmetics. Sell stuff in store insted. Some of us will never get to buy keys in store as its gambling. My dad will never let me buy any and I dont want to buy any anywayz. He alredy say we might stop playin lotro now. Im alredy so tired of lootboxes in overwatch that I stopped playin. U never get wath u want anyway even if they drop for free. People are stupid if they buy them to hope to get wath they want. They wont get it. Just keep losing money. After time they will give up to. Let people buy the things they want insted of lootboxes. Also make things like ash mostly available in game not mostly in lootboxes.

    So many suggestion to add kool skins, mounts, cosmetics to store and other stuffz. Do that instead of stupid lootboxes.

    I dont wanna play anymore if you do this update things. No fun anymore.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sun-Tzu View Post
    *1 day chest lock on mordor instances.

    No. Just no!

    *Makin black steel keys char or even account bound.

    No. Just no!

    *Remove ash drops from mobs.

    No. Just no!

    *More stuff in lootboxes.

    No. Just no!

    Doesnt matter if its gear or cosmetics. Sell stuff in store insted. Some of us will never get to buy keys in store as its gambling. My dad will never let me buy any and I dont want to buy any anywayz. He alredy say we might stop playin lotro now. Im alredy so tired of lootboxes in overwatch that I stopped playin. U never get wath u want anyway even if they drop for free. People are stupid if they buy them to hope to get wath they want. They wont get it. Just keep losing money. After time they will give up to. Let people buy the things they want insted of lootboxes. Also make things like ash mostly available in game not mostly in lootboxes.

    So many suggestion to add kool skins, mounts, cosmetics to store and other stuffz. Do that instead of stupid lootboxes.

    I dont wanna play anymore if you do this update things. No fun anymore.
    Designing Endgame around lootboxes and keys is the worst thing. Farming mobs mindlessly for ash was another stupid design decision -> they fixed that xD
    Sales team is only looking shortterm and loose many players in the long term. After so many years of downhill, we reached another low milestone. Thanks for destroying!

  4. #104
    Many of my kinmates have left this game for better ones.
    I think it's time for me to follow their path.
    This game if managed properly could have been a successful one and attract more subscribers.
    But it seems greediness and dumbness had ruined this once beautiful game.
    What a waste..
    The Adventure of Markbjorn
    Guardian of Laurelin

  5. #105
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    Its the first time after 10 years of playing this game that the server are so dead.You barely find people to do the Mordors 3 man instance anymore.My advise to you is that you should make playable the 6 men instance as fast as you can and give it to people before the raid.Dont wait to give them both together.You loose people cause there is nothing to do anymore, even pvp is broken.Another mystake was that you can get defence chest-offence legs from 3 men and obviously offence chest and defence legs from 6 men etc.That makes people not to do the 3 man anymore cause they are bored.
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  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Arandour View Post
    Its the first time after 10 years of playing this game that the server are so dead.You barely find people to do the Mordors 3 man instance anymore.My advise to you is that you should make playable the 6 men instance as fast as you can and give it to people before the raid.Dont wait to give them both together.You loose people cause there is nothing to do anymore, even pvp is broken.Another mystake was that you can get defence chest-offence legs from 3 men and obviously offence chest and defence legs from 6 men etc.That makes people not to do the 3 man anymore cause they are bored.
    SSG already know this IMO , Thats why Mordor/High elf is available for LP now

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    snip
    Percentages/Drop rates don't matter. People will still buy keys even for that 5% chance that they will get x, y or z. The loot-boxes need to be removed. Period.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denhith View Post
    Percentages/Drop rates don't matter. People will still buy keys even for that 5% chance that they will get x, y or z. The loot-boxes need to be removed. Period.
    No need to buy any key i make dailies with 6 chars and i have gather 150 keys so far for the next update.
    I dont have problem with the lootboxes my problem is that things in game arent work well like the 6 men instance for example.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchys View Post
    SSG already know this IMO , Thats why Mordor/High elf is available for LP now
    Maybe you are right but desicions like daylie lock on instances shows the oposite
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  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Sun-Tzu View Post
    *1 day chest lock on mordor instances.

    No. Just no!

    *Makin black steel keys char or even account bound.

    No. Just no!

    *Remove ash drops from mobs.

    No. Just no!

    *More stuff in lootboxes.

    No. Just no!

    I have cancelled my 2 vip accounts now, only to see what they are going to do. If this goes live i will quit this game.

  11. #111
    Well, been a long haul...

    SSG giving us *'s instead of content was the first sign that I needed to re-evaluate how much I played or spent on lotro, so I decided to opt out of buying Mordor because I needed to know what I was going to get before I buy it.

    Then came new lootboxes and new keys, and now this? I feel bad for anyone who paid for Mordor and is upset about any of it, I feel worse for those who have been desensitized by the tactics used in lotro over the years to think that its worth it.

    Then came the whole EA/SW debacle... and I realized... I have a 4 year old who watches and engages with my video game habits daily... and i realize that the games I watched at her age are NOT the games she is watching. Games today are turning into an interactive ad-ware and use addictive gambling tactics with advertising... People think they don't see ads in lotro, but they are there. Every time you see a mithril coin logo, every time you change areas, "Pile up some points!" "Be like Sam!" "Hobbit gifts!" "Lootboxes!". Every single one of these pointing to one thing, more money.

    I need to be a better role model on what games my child is exposed to. Ones that support good ethics, good morals, and one where we dont constantly need a dollar sign shoved in our face.

    So, SSG, get your hands out of my wallet, I still got my old N64, it may have been 20 years, but not only does it all still work, but I didn't have to pay a cent beyond what I paid 20 years ago to re-live the land of Hyrule, and it doesn't lag!
    "There are things that go bump in the night. We're the ones who bump back." -BPRD

  12. #112
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    Lightbulb

    A video You devs could show to whomever it is that calls the shots and have decided to add these new Gorgoroth lootboxes and make design decision revolve around them. I mean if You devs are feeling preassure from somewhere above You this could be one possible ammunition in Your battle to argue against the lootboxes. I doubt the suits above You watch alot of YouTube or follow Gaming News to realize how big these reactions against lootboxes is on a global scale. Even in Japan and not just in US or Europe. The Gaming scene is basically flooded these last weeks with this topic. That is what has even lead politicians to hold speeches and press conferences. This is not an issue to take lightly or brush away as a few angry nerds outrage.

    A really well made video going into at least some of the problems lootboxes are bringing with them. How it affects design decisions, gambling addiction etc.

    Even LoTRO is briefly mentioned in there as being one of the first PC Games to add both micro-transactions and lootboxes. I don't even think the YouTuber knows about the new Gorgoroth lootboxes and how much worse they are and how they clearly have affected and is affecting design decisions in Mordor (which can be seen in bullroarer update notes) to push us to the store for keys. It's kinda of sad that when LoTRO is finally mentioned in a general YouTubers video (which is rare these days unless from a true LoTRO fan) it is in this context. That this is one of LoTROs legacies it seems.

    He also mentions another interesting example that if putting some cosmetics in lootboxes but ALSO making the same cosmetics available to buy straight up from the store without having to gamble with a lootbox to get the item, it wouldn't be as bad. At least then that would add one more option. It's the whole game of chance/gambling that is the biggest problem. The gambling addiction it can potentially bring with it plus You can end up opening a 100 lootbox and spends tons of money and still not get it. Yes I realize that is exactly the reason why the business suits want lootboxes added but it will end up backfiring eventually. It already has in a way, as has been seen these last few weeks.

    Still imo removing lootboxes totally is the only acceptable and ethical option. In-game items should be accessible through gameplay mostly. If in store it should listed item and price not through gambling with lootboxes. That is the only "honest" and "transparent" way to conduct business. If not it's acctually not far from that street hustler with the 3 cups and 1 pea.

    Downward Thrust - Why Loot Boxes Are Ruining Video Games

    Last edited by Lord.Funk; Nov 25 2017 at 08:29 PM.
    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." /Edward Snowden
    Never The Spy-Tool Windows 10 Who needs DirectX 12 anyway ??? Vulkan is better. :)

  13. #113

    moving forward in beta

    We all get that loot boxes and pay to win are something no one wants or desires or what we need. What in my mind is make the three and six mans give ashes . and make the game enjoyable again my thoughts reward players with loot and ashes, Do not give any shortcuts rewards should be on boss chest rewards not on trash mobs . I understand one thing beta is here to formulate the next update with the developers who have been good enough to invite us to hash out the mechanics and the game play in the next update. please do so give your feedback in a polite manner and make mordor a decent update. I ask politely as lotro needs to move forward not backwards.
    All that glitters isn,t gold.

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    As of this build , the only potentially best-in-slot items from lootbox are earrings/bracelets/offhands/shields and MAYBE rings.
    Thankfully , the raid gear + cloak got a significant ilvl boost and so did the craftables ( helm/neck/pocket).And don't forget new relics : )

    So yeah , that's progress...

    Now i hope you totally remove the ash barterers for the first few weeks after launch so that kins can have a legitimate race to first clear without having to pay2win for the initial gear that will give that extra nudge.
    No it is not progress. No best in slot items should be in lootboxes EVER.,

    This is a step backwards
    I saw the light fade from the sky
    On the wind I heard a sigh
    As the snowflakes cover my fallen brothers
    I will say this last goodbye

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by crysis80 View Post
    I have cancelled my 2 vip accounts now, only to see what they are going to do. If this goes live i will quit this game.
    Bye bye...here's the thing. The ash drops instigated all those annoying Ash Farm raids. For those paying VIP members questing, this was a rather big pain in the posterior. I'm elated about this because, of course, there will be no motivation for Ash Farming now. In fact, I'd like to think I was one very small part, personally, in rendering this decision. Because, when I asked nicely in IM for these "farmers" to hold off for a few moments so I could do the quest I received profanity and insults for my courtesy. I reported those players, and don't regret that one bit. And, likely, I wasn't the only one filing a complaint. SSG's obviously came to the same conclusion. It doesn't bother me one bit that the F2P players don't have the motivation to ruin a region for the rest of us.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Casmond View Post
    Bye bye...here's the thing. The ash drops instigated all those annoying Ash Farm raids. For those paying VIP members questing, this was a rather big pain in the posterior. I'm elated about this because, of course, there will be no motivation for Ash Farming now. In fact, I'd like to think I was one very small part, personally, in rendering this decision. Because, when I asked nicely in IM for these "farmers" to hold off for a few moments so I could do the quest I received profanity and insults for my courtesy. I reported those players, and don't regret that one bit. And, likely, I wasn't the only one filing a complaint. SSG's obviously came to the same conclusion. It doesn't bother me one bit that the F2P players don't have the motivation to ruin a region for the rest of us.
    You should have no problems after this update with questing as those pesky, annoying people probably won't be logging in as much.

    Instead of blaming the players why aren't you holding SSg accountable for their 'Megaserver' that they told us could handle everything?
    Also, there was massive lag before the ash farming so ...
    Founding Member of the Vocal Minority....

    "Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
    Captain Malcolm Reynolds

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    You should have no problems after this update with questing as those pesky, annoying people probably won't be logging in as much.

    Instead of blaming the players why aren't you holding SSg accountable for their 'Megaserver' that they told us could handle everything?
    Also, there was massive lag before the ash farming so ...
    I didn't say anything about lag. That wasn't the issue. The problem was a pack of 30 players standing around like zombies killing three orcs every time they spawned. Or, it was a bunch standing around in Agarnaith waiting for the boss and the two defilers to spawn so they could kill them in seconds while questers on level paid the price. Or is was a group of 20+ running through the orc camp killing everything including the "Lookouts" in the towers which, again, was a quest with limited mobs available to complete.

    No, I blame the players for being inconsiderate, self-important, and annoying. SSG's is attempting to limit that behavior. Essentially, you brought it upon yourselves. And, as I understand it, actions that deliberately disrupt the flow of the game are in fact a violation of the game policy. What I don't understand is why this is such a big deal. I've moved 8 alts through Mordor relatively easily with acceptable gear. Currently, all 8 are pretty well geared and I didn't have to resort to purchasing keys or doing any ash farming.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Casmond View Post
    I've moved 8 alts through Mordor relatively easily with acceptable gear. Currently, all 8 are pretty well geared and I didn't have to resort to purchasing keys or doing any ash farming.
    If you got 8 alts through Mordor and are happy with what you have then I'm wondering what all the fuss is about....clearly all those pesky players didn't affect you that much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Casmond View Post
    I didn't say anything about lag. That wasn't the issue. The problem was a pack of 30 players standing around like zombies killing three orcs every time they spawned.
    this got fixed early on by taking loot away from mobs in lhingris.


    Quote Originally Posted by Casmond View Post
    No, I blame the players for being inconsiderate, self-important, and annoying. SSG's is attempting to limit that behavior. Essentially, you brought it upon yourselves. And, as I understand it, actions that deliberately disrupt the flow of the game are in fact a violation of the game policy.
    Blaming the players for the server being overloaded because they failed to give us this superserver is annoying.
    SSG isn't trying to limit bad behavior, they are trying to save face because their game engine/servers can't handle it.
    SSG brought this upon everyone by allowing it to happen, YET AGAIN, because they haven't learned from past mistakes and don't listen to feedback.
    Talk about self important players.. look in a mirror.



    Quote Originally Posted by Casmond View Post
    What I don't understand is why this is such a big deal.
    That's exactly how I feel about your posting. Clearly you are happy and got all your stuff done, so I'm not quite sure about your rage towards people who took part in something that was clearly legitimized by the mobs dropping teal armor. If they didn't want ash farm, very much like the previous farms (it's nothing new btw) then they wouldn't have included them in the loot table. They changed things because their 'superserver that could handle ANYTHING' couldn't. Period.
    Then the story became.. oh.. thats not WAI.
    JUST LIKE EVERY EXPAC/REGION BEFORE IT
    Last edited by Jillymala; Dec 01 2017 at 01:01 PM.
    Founding Member of the Vocal Minority....

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  19. #119
    Join Date
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    The stable travel route to the First Hall should now drop you off in the correct spot in front of the stable master.
    Fond recollection of a few stables where you realized you accidentally took the UNstable instead

    Missing Top Elf heralds.
    It's simply an expectation with high elf race option made Captain class available, maybe not super important.
    I expect their spectral elven archer to be quite majestic.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    If you got 8 alts through Mordor and are happy with what you have then I'm wondering what all the fuss is about....clearly all those pesky players didn't affect you that much.
    Not after I reported them to the GM. And, of course, I could do the quests. But, I found it annoying that I didn't really get to do them. Instead I had to tag the mob before the level 115 farmers killed them a few seconds later. The thing is, I paid to play the game...not have someone else play it for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    this got fixed early on by taking loot away from mobs in lhingris.
    Yes, it did, didn't it? And, it seemed to work as a solution rather nicely. Gosh, Jillymala...you just made my point as to why these changes are necessary on a more grand scale. I thank you.




    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    Blaming the players for the server being overloaded because they failed to give us this superserver is annoying.
    The server isn't overloaded. I've leveled 14 toons (the lowest is 105) and there are plenty of regions where you're lucky to run into other players. Again, I don't have issues with lag or latency or fps...even when one of those large groups comes through. The problem is inconsiderate players. The problem is a lack of social graces. The same attitude persists when someone is trying to quest and a high level player is deeding and killing all the mobs needed for the quest. A good example would be the wolves up in Ered Luin. Now, a reasonable and courteous player would offer a fellowship so as not to monopolize the mobs... Unfortunately, there are quite a few players of this game who are concerned about themselves and no one else. That mentality is merely highlighted in Mordor. Removing the motivation, by removing the teal drops is a forced response due to this immaturity etc... IMO


    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    SSG isn't trying to limit bad behavior, they are trying to save face because their game engine/servers can't handle it.
    I disagree, of course. I think SSG's is catering to their paying customers by making the playing atmosphere more friendly to those who actually want to play the game. If the game egines/servers can't handle it...how come my fps is averaging around 80 (and I'm not even port forwarding on this computer).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    SSG brought this upon everyone by allowing it to happen, YET AGAIN, because they haven't learned from past mistakes and don't listen to feedback.
    I believe that's another way of saying that they didn't listen to "your" feedback. Apparently, they listened to mine. I think the mistake was allowing the teal drops in the first place and creating an atmosphere where large groups of players go through questing areas and ruin the game for those actually playing it as it was intended. But, I have an open mind. However, it works. And, it's telling me that SSG's did indeed learn from their mistakes which is why they are making these changes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    Talk about self important players.. look in a mirror.
    Ah yes...when in doubt go with the ad hominem attack. But, I'll let you in on a little secret. Most people will recognize that approach for what it is...and it doesn't reflect well on the individual resorting to such. ;D





    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    That's exactly how I feel about your posting. Clearly you are happy and got all your stuff done, so I'm not quite sure about your rage towards people who took part in something that was clearly legitimized by the mobs dropping teal armor.
    Rage? I don't think that word means what you think it means (Princess Bride) . I, also, wouldn't use the word "legitimized" in describing the inconsideration of players relative to the farming raids. You could use the same logic to support shop lifting. After all, that can of Pringles is right there, and no one is looking. So, why not do something that benefits me?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    If they didn't want ash farm, very much like the previous farms (it's nothing new btw) then they wouldn't have included them in the loot table. They changed things because their 'superserver that could handle ANYTHING' couldn't. Period.
    Then the story became.. oh.. thats not WAI.
    JUST LIKE EVERY EXPAC/REGION BEFORE IT
    And now they are removing the drops...so obviously, they DON'T want the ash farming. Problem solved.
    Cheers,
    Cas

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Casmond View Post
    Snipped .. because lol
    Thing is, I also pay to play this game, so while you are condescendingly self aggrandizing YOUR playstyle being thrust on others.. I'm more concerned with the fact they are taking MY ability to play the game as it was sold to me. I paid for this game as well, and my playstyle should have exactly the same relevance as yours. I paid for a product that was released, then taken, then taken again. This is not the same expac I paid for. It's not the same expac YOU paid for. Shouldn't you be more concerned that you are losing content then being angry at players?

    The game was released with teal world drops, unbound Black keys, end game instance replay-ability and so forth.
    This has been out for months, literally. Months this way.. and now after people have paid for it, they take aspects away... doesn't this concern you?

    Think about it, they don't do things to cater to people, they do things to save the bottom line.
    All of the changes people, who by the way far outnumber you, are giving feedback on are telling them not to do this.
    Founding Member of the Vocal Minority....

    "Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
    Captain Malcolm Reynolds

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    Thing is, I also pay to play this game, so while you are condescendingly self aggrandizing YOUR playstyle being thrust on others.. I'm more concerned with the fact they are taking MY ability to play the game as it was sold to me. I paid for this game as well, and my playstyle should have exactly the same relevance as yours. I paid for a product that was released, then taken, then taken again. This is not the same expac I paid for. It's not the same expac YOU paid for. Shouldn't you be more concerned that you are losing content then being angry at players?

    The game was released with teal world drops, unbound Black keys, end game instance replay-ability and so forth.
    This has been out for months, literally. Months this way.. and now after people have paid for it, they take aspects away... doesn't this concern you?

    Think about it, they don't do things to cater to people, they do things to save the bottom line.
    All of the changes people, who by the way far outnumber you, are giving feedback on are telling them not to do this.
    Again with the ad hominen attacks...you might want to check the community guidelines. I'm pretty sure that's a no-no. Also, your play style deliberately interrupts the flow of the game. That, again, according to guidelines is a policy violation. Albeit, that is a vague guideline probably open to interpretation as SSG's sees fit. They possess that right as outlined in the agreement you check marked when you started playing the game the very first time. As far as SSG's catering to the bottom line? Well, SSG's is a business. Their priority should be to their bottom line. It's capitalism. Part of that is, of course, keeping their customers happy. That means they cater to the majority. It, also, means that their decisions balance the revenue and the potential for more revenue by retaining players and adding new ones. Regardless of whether you agree with SSG's success in that area, it's pretty much mute since it's their company and their decisions to make.

    And, I haven't really mentioned the black key issue, but since you brought it up, I'll address that too. The lootboxes have already been "nerfed." By adding cosmetic pets, outfits, and weapons to the mix, there was a noticable drop in the percentage of usable in-game gear received from these lootboxes. As it is now, players with multiple alts have the advantagle of using the dailies to accumulate keys and share with alts they start leveling in Mordor. Personally, I've taken advantage of that, and have about 30 or more unbound black keys sitting in a vault somewhere. I can only assume that they don't want the game to be lootbox dependent. There is a reason for this.

    Unfortunately, various countries are starting to regulate lootbox use in online gaming. This trend began in some of the Asian countries and has expanded. In most of those countries (Japan, China, S. Korea etc.) lootboxes are regulated under gambling law. The Netherlands is now investigating this issue, as is France. In fact, most countries are investigating how they can somehow regulate the use of lootboxes. It makes sense for SSG's to remove the value of lootboxes in general. Simply put, the world changes and businesses have to adjust accordingly regardless of how senseless the issue may seem. If you want to blame someone for the black key issue with this game...point the finger squarely at the Social Justice Warriors out there. They don't care about your gaming experience. They just want to "feel" relevant. About the only country that hasn't taken committee steps to regulate lootboxes is the US. And, even they are now trying to tie lootboxes to "skin gambling." The UK has stated that lootboxes are in full compliance with their standing law. But, of course, the law changes daily.

    So, personally, I can understand why SSG's is concerned that they are putting too much emphasis on lootboxes, and why they would want to remove the mystique and value from them. Because, when our lovely world politicians and SJW's get their mits into something...they hang on until they get their cut. Read: Taxes. So, it makes sense to remove the risk in that regard.
    My suggestion is that you stock up on unbound black keys now, before the next update. It is what it is.

 

 
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