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  1. #1

    Open up freep zones to monsters

    There is no risk anywhere in the landscape. No danger means travelling is never an adventure. Its just a slideshow on a horse.

    I know you won't do it, but do it.
    Illydros Squanto Ulricson Saridas Gap

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by 007Squanto View Post
    There is no risk anywhere in the landscape. No danger means travelling is never an adventure. Its just a slideshow on a horse.

    I know you won't do it, but do it.
    Bad idea as always. It will end up being a starter-area farm, thats not danger, thats called a massacre and only good for rankfarmers.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Aineas. View Post
    Bad idea as always. It will end up being a starter-area farm, thats not danger, thats called a massacre and only good for rankfarmers.
    Exclude the starting areas... make it gondor and beyond.
    Illydros Squanto Ulricson Saridas Gap

  4. #4
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    No thanks. I don't want to PvP. I'd go to the Moors if I did.

  5. #5
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    Open world PvP is never going to happen
    Most people don't want it. Open world PvP creates a particular type of community and culture that many of us play LOTRO to avoid.
    Farming non PvPers (at any level) isn't any serious PVPer's idea of fun.
    The game engine won't allow it. Creeps are glorified session play npc's. The whole design is an add on.
    There aren't the resources to make it happen even if the previous points weren't correct.

    But mostly, why bother?
    You can play eso if you want huge zergy fast combat PvP, and/or battlegrounds, and/or open world sparring in markets and crafting places. Or play any other open world PvP game if that is really what you want. A few still exist.
    Better still go play PUBG if you want a new dedicated PvP game with open random teams on various maps. Everyone else is.
    Last edited by Calta; Nov 15 2017 at 05:56 AM.

    And the minstrel sang to them……”and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.”

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    Open world PvP is never going to happen
    Most people don't want it. Open world PvP creates a particular type of community and culture that many of us play LOTRO to avoid.
    Farming non PvPers (at any level) isn't any serious PVPer's idea of fun.
    The game engine won't allow it. Creeps are glorified session play npc's. The whole design is an add on.
    There aren't the resources to make it happen even if the previous points weren't correct.

    But mostly, why bother?
    You can play eso if you want huge zergy fast combat PvP, and/or battlegrounds, and/or open world sparring in markets and crafting places. Or play any other open world PvP game if that is really what you want. A few still exist.
    Better still go play PUBG if you want a new dedicated PvP game with open random teams on various maps. Everyone else is.
    I'd be fascinated to know how it is that you know that most people don't want it.

    I'd also be interested to know how you've been gifted information about their budgetary restraints when no one else knows these things, and how exactly entire multi-boss raids can be developed along with newly designed zones and quests when apparently they lack the resources to allow creep passage into new zones. O.o fascinating stuff here.

    The game engine can easily allow it, session play npc's have been grafted in and out of the regular map many times by the devs. Know a little bit about the "engine" before asserting what it is and isn't capable of. Creeps were literally allowed to roam free in Eregion during a special event long ago...


    "Play a different game" is always a really intelligent addition to any discussion.

    I don't want carebear noobs to get farmed mercilessly, I want them to avoid those zones or tread carefully through them as we once had to do when the landscape was difficult, and I want that risk as well. You take your enjoyment from clubbing npcs while semi-afk, I derive it through a risk/reward dynamic, and if we're hazarding guesses about which is the more common penchant, I'd say the majority of people are more excited by the latter. But that's just a guess.
    Last edited by 007Squanto; Nov 15 2017 at 08:51 AM.
    Illydros Squanto Ulricson Saridas Gap

  7. #7
    A huge % of LOTRO is RPing casuals who enjoy the game for its story. Now, I'd be for increasing landscape difficult to what it was at 75, to force people to at least learn their classes a bit, but if Creeps were roaming, nobody would leave Minas Tirith. This would apply to many people's creeps. Never going to happen, and SSG would have to be clinically insane to implement it. We don't even have the PvP population to support 1 zone.
    ~Rank 11 Loremaster, Arkenstone~

    ~Rank 13 Warg, Arkenstone~

  8. #8
    [OOC: Third raid forming! 1/24 for Warg pack at West Bree gate.]

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillOTheWisp View Post
    [OOC: Third raid forming! 1/24 for Warg pack at West Bree gate.]
    Im not sure if creeps would summon enough courage to leave one shotters range.

  10. #10
    chinese and russian servers did it long ago, looks like fun

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyWxteuFCg8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G2rS7uEbkk&t=41s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_ZladDt5gA

    EU/US servers never did cause it wasnt allowed because of different license agreements :/
    Last edited by Skullsquasher; Nov 15 2017 at 11:33 AM.
    First R15 creep on Nimrodel --> Reaver Skullsquasher
    R14 Warg = Violentius
    R7 BA = Sativas

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by 007Squanto View Post
    There is no risk anywhere in the landscape. No danger means travelling is never an adventure. Its just a slideshow on a horse.

    I know you won't do it, but do it.
    Squanto! Good to see you active in the forum. Fortunately, have not seen your burg much in the Moors... we die fast enough to bad burgs these days, much less having you running around again. Hoping that changes soon.

    That said, interesting idea that would not work for all the reasons others have listed. However, I recall when I played Turbine DDO some years ago that they had a special night or weekend where demons roamed through the landscape and killed EVERYONE in their path. They tore down the market, waylayed hapless newbs and fought some huge fights with the best of the best.

    Maybe rather than making it a worldwide thing, it would be possible to pick a zone (e.g. Mordor) and have a special event weekend! Just a thought...

    Aak/Cor

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullsquasher View Post
    chinese and russian servers did it long ago, looks like fun

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyWxteuFCg8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G2rS7uEbkk&t=41s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_ZladDt5gA

    EU/US servers never did cause it wasnt allowed because of different license agreements :/
    These are great, thanks for sharing.
    One can only hope, but I remember Sapience saying years ago
    that this would never happen because
    anything server related is just too expensive.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by 007Squanto View Post
    There is no risk anywhere in the landscape. No danger means travelling is never an adventure. Its just a slideshow on a horse.

    I know you won't do it, but do it.
    No.

  14. #14
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    I started out playing Battlestar Galacrica online. Most all sectors had NPC Cylon and Colonial's. Aside from a few sectors that were "safe" sectors for each side....Players of all levels from each side could be in any given sectors. The main problem was higher levels of each faction going around blasting lower levels of the opposing faction. This kinda demoralized many of the beginning players from playing on both sides because of the lack of restraint on both sides of "Noob Killers". I would hate to see that happen to Lotro....those that like to RP or enjoy the scenery, espically the lower levels would be under constant anxiety of being wacked as soon as they stepped out of a safe area, and that would take away quite a lot of the games unique fun.
    Slimm Pickens (115 Burg) Matel Stormcrowe (105 Lore Master)
    Server: Crickhollow (from Meneldor originally)

    Founder/Leader of The Unforgiven

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Spilo View Post
    A huge % of LOTRO is RPing casuals who enjoy the game for its story. Now, I'd be for increasing landscape difficult to what it was at 75, to force people to at least learn their classes a bit.
    What's the point in "forcing people to learn the class" though if they are getting what they want out of the game?

    Also funny that you would mention lvl 75 as I remember playing during ROI and being shocked at how easy it was (wow, bigtime PVE humblebrag). I think it's fine as long as there's people that find some of the landscape is challenging, but not unmanagable, since questing by default isn't usually meant to test your uber gamer cred or anything.

    As for the topic at hand - don't think it's a good idea: lower levels players, people that aren't interested in pvp at all (playing can be a good way of relaxing, pvp without a choice isn't quite that though), having an even larger area to aimlessly run around without finding anyone.
    I think the best people can hope for are events on BR where creeps are allowed to enter a usually pve zone specified beforehand.


    Lotro PVP Videos l Thorfinn || r14 champ, r12 burglar- Crickhollow || r11//r9 warg Crick//Elendilmir || + other stuff

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007Squanto View Post
    You take your enjoyment from clubbing npcs while semi-afk
    Calta is a minstrel main on Landroval(?) so you're not too far off with that statement.

  17. #17
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    To those who say its not a good idea or that you would be forcing something onto uninterested players, World of Warcraft had the right idea with certain quests in various zones being pvp. Even then you have to flag yourself for pvp. If you don't flag yourself for pvp you might come across opposite faction players and not have to fight them.

  18. #18
    I often wished it was open world too, but instead of intruding on others, I would rather see it on its own dedicated server. It's been a long time, but I think that is how EQ1 handled that.
    Cheesiepoofs Bane of Vilya

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Nifroth View Post
    What's the point in "forcing people to learn the class" though if they are getting what they want out of the game?

    Also funny that you would mention lvl 75 as I remember playing during ROI and being shocked at how easy it was (wow, bigtime PVE humblebrag). I think it's fine as long as there's people that find some of the landscape is challenging, but not unmanagable, since questing by default isn't usually meant to test your uber gamer cred or anything.

    As for the topic at hand - don't think it's a good idea: lower levels players, people that aren't interested in pvp at all (playing can be a good way of relaxing, pvp without a choice isn't quite that though), having an even larger area to aimlessly run around without finding anyone.
    I think the best people can hope for are events on BR where creeps are allowed to enter a usually pve zone specified beforehand.
    Just compare the level of effort required to PvE compared to any other game. The game has gotten significantly easier since I started playing, even if that was relatively easy to you. There was a Champion who was "famous" for leveling up to Moria with using nothing but auto-attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seglord View Post
    I often wished it was open world too, but instead of intruding on others, I would rather see it on its own dedicated server. It's been a long time, but I think that is how EQ1 handled that.
    It would be fun, but we don't have the population to support that. Just compare the Moors to the size of all the other areas.
    ~Rank 11 Loremaster, Arkenstone~

    ~Rank 13 Warg, Arkenstone~

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    Farming non PvPers (at any level) isn't any serious PVPer's idea of fun.
    It's a sociopath's idea of fun. I'm perfectly OK with LOTRO not being a fun game for sociopaths.

    Eve Online is a great game, but it caters to sociopaths, which is why I don't play it any more.
    Thurallor, Warden of Landroval
    Author of plugins: SequenceBars, Reminders, others

  21. #21
    Swtor had this feature that allowed PvP between the factions (empire and republic) because the two factions shared the landscape on some worlds. You could switch into PvP mode manually to fight. Or walk into the other faction's controlled landscape on a shared world and be forced into PvP mode.

    Bioware eventually did away with this concept because of all the ways members of one faction could interfere with the game play of the members of the other faction. I can remember times having to log out a pub character. Play a different character until the imps left the area.

    What Bioware did ids to layer the shared worlds. You have a non PvP and PvP layer - two copies of a shared world like Alderaan. You start out in the non PvP layer. You can go anywhere you want. You can never be attacked by another player. want to PvP. You manually switch to PvP mode. Your character is transferred to the PvP layer. Of course, in the PvP layer all members of your opposing faction can attack you and you can attack them.

    If SSG wants to implement a similar concept I am OK with that. A Creep wants to leave the Moors, they go into the PvP layer for the shared regions. There is no method for a Creep to get into the non PvP layer regions. Freeps can manually go into PvP mode which will then move their character to the PvP layer.

    This implementation would preserve the consent required nature of our game play. SSG would have to figure out all the other interaction issues that PvP in Freep region would bring. They would need to deal with the level differences. You have level capped Creeps in lower level regions. Bioware solved this issue - sort of with the concept of level synchronization. You take a level capped character to a world like Alderaan. Your character imp or pub is reduced to the level cap for that particular world.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    Swtor had this feature that allowed PvP between the factions (empire and republic) because the two factions shared the landscape on some worlds. You could switch into PvP mode manually to fight. Or walk into the other faction's controlled landscape on a shared world and be forced into PvP mode.

    Bioware eventually did away with this concept because of all the ways members of one faction could interfere with the game play of the members of the other faction. I can remember times having to log out a pub character. Play a different character until the imps left the area.

    What Bioware did ids to layer the shared worlds. You have a non PvP and PvP layer - two copies of a shared world like Alderaan. You start out in the non PvP layer. You can go anywhere you want. You can never be attacked by another player. want to PvP. You manually switch to PvP mode. Your character is transferred to the PvP layer. Of course, in the PvP layer all members of your opposing faction can attack you and you can attack them.

    If SSG wants to implement a similar concept I am OK with that. A Creep wants to leave the Moors, they go into the PvP layer for the shared regions. There is no method for a Creep to get into the non PvP layer regions. Freeps can manually go into PvP mode which will then move their character to the PvP layer.

    This implementation would preserve the consent required nature of our game play. SSG would have to figure out all the other interaction issues that PvP in Freep region would bring. They would need to deal with the level differences. You have level capped Creeps in lower level regions. Bioware solved this issue - sort of with the concept of level synchronization. You take a level capped character to a world like Alderaan. Your character imp or pub is reduced to the level cap for that particular world.
    yeah i dont see SSG providing the server real estate.....ever
    just a reminder... anything playable, doable, and actionable, may be considered an exploit and the ban-hammer may be authorized at any and all moments.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007Squanto View Post
    There is no risk anywhere in the landscape. No danger means travelling is never an adventure. Its just a slideshow on a horse.

    I know you won't do it, but do it.
    bad idea n worse than this
    you just look for easy kills
    if you dont like pvp in lotro go to somewhere else
    creeps in lotro exist only to be killed by freeps no less
    your lord is gone
    end of story
    20 years lotr enthousiast, 11 years lotro player, lifetimer, Loyal member of the Spartans Kinship, now in Evernight imigrants from Eldar

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valakircka View Post
    bad idea n worse than this
    you just look for easy kills
    if you dont like pvp in lotro go to somewhere else
    creeps in lotro exist only to be killed by freeps no less
    your lord is gone
    end of story
    The idiocy is strong in this fanboy.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ionlyzerg View Post
    Calta is a minstrel main on Landroval(?) so you're not too far off with that statement.

    Yep! That's me. Worst PvP minstrel ever. Only ever traited blue. Rank 9 entirely through heals. 400MS latency, 6 year old laptop with 15 inch screen and I'm riddled with arthritis. Haven't PvPed for 2 years....And I'm still famous!
    Who'd 've thunk it :P


    As for OP:
    the response here and in all the other similar threads going back years is always about 2 in favour and 8 against open world PvP. When suggested in world in my expereince the odds are 30-1 against minimum. Peoplesay they enjoy lotro because it isn't very competitive, doesn't require fast combat and they enjoy the story.

    As for implementation issues, Just do some searches on how PvP was developed in this game. it isn't hard. The facts are there.

    The resources clearly aren't available...just look at buggy Mordor, no class balance and no creep re-balance for evidence of that. How do you think they'd develop PvMP in the rest of the game when they can't even get the Osgiliath map done right despite actually devoting resources to it and having some of the best PvPers in the game advising them.....

    As for playing another game, it was a suggestion on how you could get what you want without completely destroying what the rest of us like.

    And finally, all the serious PvPers here, have agreed farming greenies /RPers/AI clubbers or w/e you want to call them/us isn't really PvP. It's dynamiting fish in a barrel. Even if SSG could take the WoW approach and allow open world PvP with a flag to turn on only if you want to participate, all you'd get is PvMP spars in a huge open world. So you'd get less action than in the circle jerks in the Moors.

    edit: I'd enjoy a PvP server on some days but I cannot see it happening. Too small a population. if the Ettenmoors are empty. imagine how desolate the rest of the map would be. You would just end up organising camps outside MT or Galtrev in stead of grams to get action.

    edited to avoid multiposting
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    It's a sociopath's idea of fun. I'm perfectly OK with LOTRO not being a fun game for sociopaths.

    Eve Online is a great game, but it caters to sociopaths, which is why I don't play it any more.
    yeah, that was the game i was thinking of with my comment about changing the community and feel of the game.(Making it toxic, imo). And when i said some still exist. There really are lots of open world PvP games available with different levels of interaction. PuBG is just the latest and seemed to meet what the OP wanted. Random group fights against other players in an open map
    Last edited by Calta; Nov 16 2017 at 05:15 AM.

    And the minstrel sang to them……”and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.”

 

 
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