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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eruadarion View Post
    The fight already has some cool mechanics but half of them can simply be ignored because their effects are hardly noticable. The Devoted Supplicants buff is only one of many examples.

    I'm not saying a flat damage increase is the best solution but I believe it's better to first make sure the already existing mechanics can't be ignored before asking for completely new mechanics. And yes, some mechanics can be made relevant by increasing the damage of certain effects or mobs. At least that's the easiest way to do it and with limited dev resources it's probably the only option.


    Also: The enrage timer should only be nerfed if the devs make other parts of the fight significantly more challenging to compensate for it! In the current build and the current state of mechanics, the enrage timer is not too hard to beat!

    I'm not saying the timer should be changed, I said the timer should be changed ONLY if they decide to massively increase boss damage.
    Right now as it is the timer is more then enough.
    Last edited by elzeqq; Nov 13 2017 at 08:48 AM.
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  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Funari View Post
    Agreed, clever mechanics over straight damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruadarion View Post
    The fight already has some cool mechanics but half of them can simply be ignored because their effects are hardly noticable. The Devoted Supplicants buff is only one of many examples.

    I'm not saying a flat damage increase is the best solution but I believe it's better to first make sure the already existing mechanics can't be ignored before asking for completely new mechanics. And yes, some mechanics can be made relevant by increasing the damage of certain effects or mobs. At least that's the easiest way to do it and with limited dev resources it's probably the only option.


    Also: The enrage timer should only be nerfed if the devs make other parts of the fight significantly more challenging to compensate for it! In the current build and the current state of mechanics, the enrage timer is not too hard to beat!
    Quote Originally Posted by Funari View Post
    Agreed, they should produce a buff that is actually noticeable. I have always been a fan of corruption bosses like Durchest, LT, UO. Corruptions seem to scare players as it's an uncommon concept.



    Agreed, did the boss with live gear last night with over 40s to spare with not exactly the optimum group or strategy.
    If we want to add a mechanic instead of a straight damage buff to the boss, I don't see a reason not to reuse the one already in place with the Devoted Supplicants. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't notice any form of buff for any of the bosses beyond the Ent healing after death. Why not give the bosses a damage buff, similar to the supplicants, but more powerful and permanent? This buff would only appear if you properly dispose of the Spoiled mini bosses. This makes CM an actual challenge, and different from regular t2. The bosses will steadily increase damage as the fight continues, if you choose to do CM. Meanwhile, groups who may not have the time or gear for it can simply nuke the Spoiled when they activate and do regular t2.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    Careful to not turn this fight into dungeons of naerband.

    By that i'm not saying the fight should not get buffed, i'm up to see it little bit more challenging but we all know what happens when we ask SSG for harder fights, thrankul is a great example.

    Also like I mentioned before, damage is 1 thing that SSG can't handle in this game correctly, i'd be more then happy to see extra mechanics over damage, the way fight is builded would be much better.
    Naerband wouldn't have been as bad if it was a raid, ironically (teleport still would've sucked, but been easier to deal with in a raid, having to bring debuff classes, and multiple tanks, deal with healer being ported, etc). Not saying it wouldn't have still needed tuning, but would have been much more reasonable of an idea for the space and the fights had it been a raid.

    As mentioned current problem is a lot of mechanics that are there can be mostly avoided, not that there's not enough mechanics. People don't even notice the current mechanics that happen when the side-bosses are beaten other than the full-heal (which is apparently buggy).

    Regardless, excited to see it in further builds. If it gets turned up to 11 I hope people will give it some time before they call for nerfs -- T2 should be beatable, T2C should make you stress and take you a fairly long while to get the familiarity and near perfection with the fight's mechanics that you can beat it, IMO.

    Especially considering their new lock system -- you can beat T2, do other bosses T2, and then decide which you want to progress on for T2C (hypothetically). Worst case scenario if T2C is unbeatable we get 3 reasonably difficult T2 fights and then after a month of progress they make the T2C fights more doable with gear or nerfs. Way better than people killing first and/or multiple bosses day one T2C because it was either so easy that people got it first night, or people spent way too much time in Bullroarer and had it on farm pre-release.

    ^^ IMO. YMMV.

  4. #29
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    My 2 cents on the 1st raid boss so far...

    1) The eye sacrifice port root/dot does not always apply.
    2) The ent dying causing bosses to full heal needs a nerf.
    3) The bosses damage needs a boost , or simply boost the buff sacrificed devoted apply.
    4) Add a way to avoid loremaster bear usage for boss tanking.
    5) Make the spider miniboss run more towards the middle or change the spawn point , to avoid getting it stuck behind bars.
    6) You can get the challenge even if you don't sacrifice all the spoiled. My guess is its the same bug as in Seregost. If you do it on one try and then wipe/reset , you get challenge done on next try without redoing it : D

    In my opinion , you need to reduce the DPS race element a bit ( by nerfing the full heal ) and boost the survival element by boosting the boss DPS.
    That way , you can reduce hunter stacking and allow more classes in.
    Currently , its a bit too easy for good healers to heal the 1st boss on t2.Even for 1 yellow and 1 blue mini...Unless people do a lot of mistakes ofc...

    I like the fight so far , the mechanics are interesting and i had a lot of fun testing it this weekend.

    Hoping for more of the same.

  5. #30
    A little feedback from the experinece i had:

    1 Trash:The first trash waves are way to easy in my opinion (you can clear them with 6 people).
    Trolls should hit way harder, normal mobs should hit way harder and everything could use a +30% moral boost. Maybe add some special skills/corruptions/aura or whatever to make it hard on t2.
    The trash waves with nurnoth,revenant,pitcrawlers and maggts are ok,maybe a little to easy. The abysal maggot should hit harder and should be harder to kill(more like 10 mio health.
    The last waves before the first boss are way to easy aswell. Make the watcher hit hader, implement some really difficult mechanics there, make cc required(not only 2 mobs).

    In general i can just say that i really liked the tower of orthanc trash and that a lot of grps were wiping on the acid/shadow trash on t2.
    You dont have to make it super hard on the way to boss 1,maybe let the trash difficulty increase over the trash ways from -boss1,boss 1-2 and boss 2-3.

    Boss 1 T2C:

    The fight is looking good but he is way to easy at the moment.

    1:Buff the base outgoing dmg for about +20% of the high pristess

    2:Make the buff the suplicants provide to the bosses if you dont kill them +100% dmg(like erebor bloodrage)

    3:The red puddels are really weak,you can ignore them atm. Let them do 20% moral dmg every sec that people need to move out and let them expire instead of ignoring them.

    4:The teleport is either not working correct or way to easy. Give the player 2 seconds and not 7 seconds before the teleport.If he is teleportet with 90%+moral he should get a big dot like from some scourges first boss naerbrand t2.
    Like 100k every 2 sec before mits.If he is getting teleportet with less then 90% moral he should die 5sec after and everyone else in 5m range should die aswell.That would require more proactive game play.

    5:Adds from sidebosses:

    The blood spirits are decent balanced,could maybe do a little more dmg/some coruption/cc mechanic to the tank.

    The little spiders are way to weak atm.Instead(or in combination) with a root let them do a big acid dot that it requires you to kill them/kite them if they are on light armour classes.like 60k every 2sec before mits should be good.

    6:The heal from the ent(and even spider sometimes) seems a little rng.
    I would prefer a timer(like 30sec to kill the end) and if you take longer the bosses heal 50,70 or 100% of their moral.
    To make melee dps viable all 3 sideboss should have a +50% inc melee dmg buff.

    7:Make the challenge harder.The sideffects you get if you do t2c are decent but not to hard now,maybe in combination with:

    8:Add a shadoe mechanic.+10-15 shadow if you kill a sideboss and +20-25 shadow if you kill a sideboss under challenge circumstances.



    Review:I like the idea of the fight and the general mechanics. make them interesting and hard and we could have a quite cool boss here.
    In my opinion (specially if you only got 3 bosses in the total raid) no kin should be able to kill the first boss on t2c in the first week.T2 could be okay after some practice,but where is the point of creating a raid if bosses are down on t2c on the first day?That would be just boring.

    Rather make this boss and the other 2 really hard at the start and if needed balance them after 2-3 weeks.Throne was a really bad example there(4 challenges were killed on the first 2 days and the remaining ones were nerved to hard).i rather have a level of Tower of Orthanc difficulty that takes a few month to kill all bosses on t2c.

    I hope to see at least some changes when it goes live.
    i even would appreciate some non test able mechanics to have at least a little bit of new stuff to do on live and that br resting kins dont have a super big advantage.
    But i rather have a well tested and well balanced raid(where the raid community is helping on balanceing) then a bugged/to easy raid.


    Edit:That shadow tiering mechanic would work way better if the best loe gear wont be in a p2w system.
    If you want t free to everyone reduce the loe or better lock it behind t2 deeds or wait 2 months till you release that for no requirements.
    Last edited by Kasius; Nov 14 2017 at 02:29 PM.
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  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasius View Post
    Rather make this boss and the other 2 really hard at the start and if needed balance them after 2-3 weeks.Throne was a really bad example there(4 challenges were killed on the first 2 days and the remaining ones were nerved to hard).i rather have a level of Tower of Orthanc difficulty that takes a few month to kill all bosses on t2c.
    1. Tower of Orthanc almost wasn't tested on BR. Door to Bukot\Saruman was closed at all. So the only reason 4 challenges beaten in 2 days - BR testing, as SSG\Turbine doesn't own such testing team, as it was 5 years ago.
    2. F&F and Saruman Challenges were completed only after patch. This is the only reason why it took few months.
    3. Orthanc difficulty was a way lower than Throne.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasius View Post
    8:Add a shadoe mechanic.+10-15 shadow if you kill a sideboss and +20-25 shadow if you kill a sideboss under challenge circumstances.
    Anything about shadow mechanics is a joke while raid gear is available for Ash.
    IMO any synthetic difficulty increasing is a bad thing.
    Enrage timer is good, and that's enough.
    Last edited by Siddharta; Nov 14 2017 at 04:04 PM.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siddharta View Post
    1. Tower of Orthanc almost wasn't tested on BR. Door to Bukot\Saruman was closed at all. So the only reason 4 challenges beaten in 2 days - BR testing, as SSG\Turbine doesn't have a proper testing team, as it was 5 years ago.
    2. F&F and Saruman Challenges were completed only after patch. This is the only reason why it took few months.
    3. Orthanc difficulty was a way lower than Throne.



    Anything about shadow mechanics is a joke while raid gear is available for Ash.
    IMO any synthetic difficulty increasing is a bad thing.
    Enrage timer is good, and that's enough.
    Thank you. Completely agree.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Siddharta View Post
    Anything about shadow mechanics is a joke while raid gear is available for Ash.
    IMO any synthetic difficulty increasing is a bad thing.
    Enrage timer is good, and that's enough.
    Yep. All counters to such mechanics should be done on class level. Not by using light essence/more light gear. Stuff like that work only on buff/debuff level that is not possible to nullify on gear level. Having shadow increasing mechanic just means whole mechanic comes irrelevant over the time.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siddharta View Post
    1. Tower of Orthanc almost wasn't tested on BR. Door to Bukot\Saruman was closed at all. So the only reason 4 challenges beaten in 2 days - BR testing, as SSG\Turbine doesn't own such testing team, as it was 5 years ago.
    2. F&F and Saruman Challenges were completed only after patch. This is the only reason why it took few months.
    3. Orthanc difficulty was a way lower than Throne.



    Anything about shadow mechanics is a joke while raid gear is available for Ash.
    IMO any synthetic difficulty increasing is a bad thing.
    Enrage timer is good, and that's enough.

    Totally agree, shadow increase is very very bad idea, please don't do that.
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  10. #35
    Model bosses off of UO. That was a very nice fight with mechanics that allow the fight NOT to be faceroll today. Shadow mechanics are lame and flat damage increases too.
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  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Siddharta View Post
    1. Tower of Orthanc almost wasn't tested on BR. Door to Bukot\Saruman was closed at all. So the only reason 4 challenges beaten in 2 days - BR testing, as SSG\Turbine doesn't own such testing team, as it was 5 years ago.
    2. F&F and Saruman Challenges were completed only after patch. This is the only reason why it took few months.
    3. Orthanc difficulty was a way lower than Throne.



    Anything about shadow mechanics is a joke while raid gear is available for Ash.
    IMO any synthetic difficulty increasing is a bad thing.
    Enrage timer is good, and that's enough.
    I disagree with a few things.
    In my opinion saruman and in some terms even unbroken were possible before the patches(some kinds were super close to get them down).
    Turbine tended to nerv throne bosses to early to strong(instead of fixing really non working stuff).


    With the shadow system i can agree.
    The potential is huge( like just compare it with Barad Guldur at 65).
    That way you could make progress:Everyone needs to do t1 at the start to be able to do t2 and do that to be able to do t2c.

    SSG made the horrible mistake with:loe essences and the whole lootbox p2win system.
    So IF they dont change anything about the p2win #### i even agree that you just should leave shadow at 200 for t2 that you can completly ignore it.
    Then the onky thing you can p2win is like 5-10% stats and that shouldnt be the only reason to get a firstkill(if you are a bad players) vs good players who do it with current live gear and no p2win.

    The enrage timer in total is good,but then make it really an enrage timer.
    We had the same on the nazgul fight and how many people were really struggeling with the enrage of the nazguls?
    not many....
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siddharta View Post
    1. Tower of Orthanc almost wasn't tested on BR. Door to Bukot\Saruman was closed at all. So the only reason 4 challenges beaten in 2 days - BR testing, as SSG\Turbine doesn't own such testing team, as it was 5 years ago.
    2. F&F and Saruman Challenges were completed only after patch. This is the only reason why it took few months.
    3. Orthanc difficulty was a way lower than Throne.
    Yep. This is correct.

    Not to mention that F&F NEVER worked as intented. For anyone old school , remember they had a mechanic to reduce their rage by hitting each other ? : D
    That was never used in practise because it was badly balanced. Instead , people stacked burglars and got it down after patch.
    A couple of years after , same thing happened with Flight to the lonely mountain. Too bad that time , there was no work around.
    Badly balanced fight remained broken even after patch.

    Anyway , this is not the case here. The 1st boss fight has good fundamental mechanics and i like it so far.

    As for light , it should stay 200 , but you all know we are getting a 250 shadow req for last boss : D Because this is SSG = Store Sounds Great.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasius View Post
    Then the onky thing you can p2win is like 5-10% stats and that shouldnt be the only reason to get a firstkill(if you are a bad players) vs good players who do it with current live gear and no p2win.
    I am more worried about pay 2 win and personal loot system atm. Personal loot means ZERO gauranteed loot and no master loot. Instead you have good old depressing RNG.
    Those will turn people to the lootboxes for gear and diminish the duration of raiding , even if the raid itself turns out good.
    With their store gear attitude , there is 0 chance people will endure raiding this raid for as long as Throne.
    And no , i don't care if the whole difference is 5% , its still an unfair advantage that you can have before you even step inside the raid on day 1 , AKA pay 2 win.
    Plus , it's not even about the raid light requirement itself. Having extra light allows you to use 115 pellenor gear or even legacy 105 gear for some support classes.
    So no , its not ONLY about the stats themselves.

    PS.Ow and before anyone pops up and says : ''Yeah but we already have light essences for that''.... Where do you get those again ? : DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
    Last edited by BotLike; Nov 14 2017 at 06:18 PM.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    Yep. This is correct.
    Not to mention that F&F NEVER worked as intented. For anyone old school , remember they had a mechanic to reduce their rage by hitting each other ? : D
    I remember the moment when jwbarry came to the progression thread and said something like "YOU ALL DON'T UNDERSTAND THE RAGE MECHANICS"
    As far as i know a long after this he comfirmed somewhere that one of the main mechanics wasn't working at all (shadow grims were supposed to transform into fire\frost when you put them under the orrey).
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  14. #39
    Current timer requires a little less than 250k raid dps. If, as a raid, you can't hit 250k raid dps, you can always run T2 non challenge, or even T1. But don't complain if you can't average 21k dps per member. Even if you need to take 3 healers.

    Should leave the timer as is and still increase boss damage.
    .
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  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Starkorm View Post
    Abyss of Mordath Raid Feedback
    Bugs:
    1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDZYiJ4xa2k&t=1s - Whatever you want to call this, it looks like a bug to me. Being able to attack the mobs from an unattackable position doesn't seem WAI.
    2) The "rhino" spoiled in the first boss fight with the priest and priestess will go up in the air over certain objects sometimes.
    3) 2 of the banners are missing for skipping ahead in the instance. More specifically, the two in front of the bridge near the first trash pulls.
    4) There is a currently a bug that allows players to get trash/adds stuck in positions that allow for the tanks to take no damage but DPSers to damage freely in the First boss. Possibly other positions besides the one given in the post below. (Thanks Funari and Enz for mentioning this.)

    Trash:
    The trash difficulty is good. Upon further review, it does not actually take too long, even if doing them all is extremely boring. Didn't notice any bugs besides certain positioning. (Linked above).

    Boss 1:
    I assume all the mechanics are in for this boss. Didn't notice any bugs besides the one already listed above. However, occasionally a member of the raid will get an eye that ports them to the sacrificial table upon expiration. Sometimes you get a damaging debuff/root after port and sometimes you don't. Not sure if WAI. All the spoiled now leave their cages.

    Upon killing of the last spoiled, both bosses full heal. I'm not sure if there's a way to avoid this as of yet, but if this is the intended mechanic it's possible the DPS has been slightly overestimated.

    Boss 2:
    The mechanics are not all in for the boss yet, but I'll mention what's in it so far. The boss will instantly attack you, there is no dialogue or activation required to start the fight. The smoke walls are interesting I guess, seem to be WAI from what I could gather. Upon killing the boss, none of the walls despawn.

    I probably missed/forgot bugs. If anybody else has encountered others that I missed, posting them would be greatly appreciated. Other general feedback is also appreciated too, of course.

    Hi, Starkorm. Our group is also running this raid recently. While we cannot understand the meaning of the challenge for the first boss. In Beta 3, we killed the priest and Priestess before we killed three spoileds. Then the challenge is failed. So, in Beta 4, we killed three spoileds first, then we kill the priest and priestess. But it also shows the challenge is failed. We totally confused of how to complete the challenge. Do you have any idea of how to run the challenge?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohnbaby View Post
    Hi, Starkorm. Our group is also running this raid recently. While we cannot understand the meaning of the challenge for the first boss. In Beta 3, we killed the priest and Priestess before we killed three spoileds. Then the challenge is failed. So, in Beta 4, we killed three spoileds first, then we kill the priest and priestess. But it also shows the challenge is failed. We totally confused of how to complete the challenge. Do you have any idea of how to run the challenge?
    You have to sacrifice them in 'the blood'. Like, they have to be in blood waters before they get to 5%. It opens up extra mechanics.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by canyouaddcolour View Post
    You have to sacrifice them in 'the blood'. Like, they have to be in blood waters before they get to 5%. It opens up extra mechanics.
    Thank you very much, canyouaddcolour^ ^. I see now. Good luck & Have fun!!

 

 
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