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  1. #1

    Abyss of Mordath Raid Feedback (Round 2)

    Abyss of Mordath Raid Feedback
    Bugs:
    1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDZYiJ4xa2k&t=1s - Whatever you want to call this, it looks like a bug to me. Being able to attack the mobs from an unattackable position doesn't seem WAI.
    2) The "rhino" spoiled in the first boss fight with the priest and priestess will go up in the air over certain objects sometimes.
    3) 2 of the banners are missing for skipping ahead in the instance. More specifically, the two in front of the bridge near the first trash pulls.
    4) There is a currently a bug that allows players to get trash/adds stuck in positions that allow for the tanks to take no damage but DPSers to damage freely in the First boss. Possibly other positions besides the one given in the post below. (Thanks Funari and Enz for mentioning this.)

    Trash:
    The trash difficulty is good. Upon further review, it does not actually take too long, even if doing them all is extremely boring. Didn't notice any bugs besides certain positioning. (Linked above).

    Boss 1:
    I assume all the mechanics are in for this boss. Didn't notice any bugs besides the one already listed above. However, occasionally a member of the raid will get an eye that ports them to the sacrificial table upon expiration. Sometimes you get a damaging debuff/root after port and sometimes you don't. Not sure if WAI. All the spoiled now leave their cages.

    Upon killing of the last spoiled, both bosses full heal. I'm not sure if there's a way to avoid this as of yet, but if this is the intended mechanic it's possible the DPS has been slightly overestimated.

    Boss 2:
    The mechanics are not all in for the boss yet, but I'll mention what's in it so far. The boss will instantly attack you, there is no dialogue or activation required to start the fight. The smoke walls are interesting I guess, seem to be WAI from what I could gather. Upon killing the boss, none of the walls despawn.

    I probably missed/forgot bugs. If anybody else has encountered others that I missed, posting them would be greatly appreciated. Other general feedback is also appreciated too, of course.
    Last edited by Starkorm; Nov 12 2017 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Updating.
    Arkenstone| Officer of Faded | Altria
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Starkorm View Post
    Abyss of Mordath Raid Feedback
    Bugs:
    1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDZYiJ4xa2k&t=1s - Whatever you want to call this, it looks like a bug to me. Being able to attack the mobs from an unattackable position doesn't seem WAI.
    2) The "rhino" spoiled in the first boss fight with the priest and priestess will go up in the air over certain objects sometimes.
    3) 2 of the banners are missing for skipping ahead in the instance. More specifically, the two in front of the bridge near the first trash pulls.

    Trash:
    The trash difficulty is good. Upon further review, it does not actually take too long, even if doing them all is extremely boring. Didn't notice any bugs besides certain positioning.

    Boss 1:
    I assume all the mechanics are in for this boss. Didn't notice any bugs besides the one already listed above. However, occasionally a member of the raid will get an eye that ports them to the sacrificial table upon expiration. Sometimes you get a damaging debuff/root after port and sometimes you don't. Not sure if WAI. All the spoiled now leave their cages.

    Upon killing of the last spoiled, both bosses full heal. I'm not sure if there's a way to avoid this as of yet, but if this is the intended mechanic it's possible the DPS has been slightly overestimated.

    Boss 2:
    The mechanics are not all in for the boss yet, but I'll mention what's in it so far. The boss will instantly attack you, there is no dialogue or activation required to start the fight. The smoke walls are interesting I guess, seem to be WAI from what I could gather. Upon killing the boss, none of the walls despawn.

    I probably missed/forgot bugs. If anybody else has encountered others that I missed, posting them would be greatly appreciated. Other general feedback is also appreciated too, of course.

    The first boss seems very easy, the incoming damage is very light and bosses/sub-bosses do not hit very hard.
    Something more should be done with that eye too. If I wanted to make this a bit harder, I'd probably add a corruption cycle similar to last boss in BG or alternatively the three sub-bosses in Unbroken One to the Spoiled. Currently they do not really hit hard.

    Also, I have been told that during the first boss you can pull everything to one side of the wall, then the tank goes around to the room where the spider boss comes out and they'll get stuck - the DPS can sit the other side and pew pew which no doubt kinships such as the one included in your video will do.

  3. #3
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    If they are to massively increase dmg of the bosses or sidebosses, I'm afraid you won't be able to outheal this with 2 minstrels and atm the way fight is builded, you need zerg dps setup, so preferably 1 yellow and 1 blue mini.

    So theres 3 solutions to this

    1 - Remove the fullheal on bosses after you defeat ent and boost DMG of the side bosses.
    2 - Keep the fullheal but change little bit the eye mechanic.
    3 - Buff dmg of main bosses but increase main timer to 12 minutes.


    or just become mirkovic and exploit

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    If they are to massively increase dmg of the bosses or sidebosses, I'm afraid you won't be able to outheal this with 2 minstrels and atm the way fight is builded, you need zerg dps setup, so preferably 1 yellow and 1 blue mini.

    So theres 3 solutions to this

    1 - Remove the fullheal on bosses after you defeat ent and boost DMG of the side bosses.
    2 - Keep the fullheal but change little bit the eye mechanic.
    3 - Buff dmg of main bosses but increase main timer to 12 minutes.


    or just become mirkovic and exploit
    Get burg(s) and RK as 3rd healer to reduce damage. Shrug. Also no nerfs, if people can beat it now I would suggest buffing difficulty...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Get burg(s) and RK as 3rd healer to reduce damage. Shrug. Also no nerfs, if people can beat it now I would suggest buffing difficulty...
    I had burglar and if you invite 3rd healer you won't have enough dps to finish the fight in 10 minutes, I suggest you trying it before you comment.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    I had burglar and if you invite 3rd healer you won't have enough dps to finish the fight in 10 minutes, I suggest you trying it before you comment.
    Just because you can't summon enough DPS in few days of trying don't mean you can't complete it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Just because you can't summon enough DPS in few days of trying don't mean you can't complete it.
    I can almost assure you that with 3 healers and multiple burgs like you suggested, u won't finish the fight.

  8. #8
    Well we had ~1.5 out of 10 minutes left when we completed the Challenge, but i believe this can be increased up to 2 minutes (at MAX) if we adjust our strategy a bit.
    Also we had 2xHunter, 1xRK, 1xChamp dps setup (as always, we are not able to switch classes dramatically because we have only 14 players in our kin), so changing champion to another RK\Hunter should improve the result too.
    So yeah there's defintely a spot for increasing outgoing damage of bosses\eyes\spirts.
    Xolla;Tishina\Arkenstone

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siddharta View Post
    Well we had ~1.5 out of 10 minutes left when we completed the Challenge, but i believe this can be increased up to 2 minutes (at MAX) if we adjust our strategy a bit.
    Also we had 2xHunter, 1xRK, 1xChamp dps setup (as always, we are not able to switch classes dramatically because we have only 14 players in our kin), so changing champion to another RK\Hunter should improve the result too.
    So yeah there's defintely a spot for increasing outgoing damage of bosses\eyes\spirts.
    Thank you. Also worth noting that 10 minutes enrage =/= must kill in 10 mins. There's ways to go a little past.

    The DPS requirement is fine (arguably a little low -- but it's boss 1), and outgoing damage currently is far too low to create any stressful moments or requirements of synchronizing CDs, etc.

    Also before it gets mentioned... The team I experienced this with is required to only use gear they have on live or gear we will ensure they have before raid release (no 18 light gear!). Went in with full mits builds, which we didn't need due to low outgoing damage. No yellow mini, either. Didn't adjust due to expecting more hard hitting mechanics at some point -- first night in with boss 1 having mechanics and us being with 90% of our prog group.

    Loved the fight, though.

    T2 is fine as it is with an outgoing damage buff (DPS requirement is low if it's T2 -- which is fine, makes T2 accessible, you can have extra healers, etc, and people can gear up whilst trying to push DPS and healing to complete T2C -- that's fun!). Most organised raiding kins (or raiding alliances) will kill T2 first day even if you buff outgoing damage, T2C will probs be done early by a decent amount of Kins but not too many if you buff outgoing damage significantly. Good progression fight with significant outgoing damage buff, IMO.
    Last edited by canyouaddcolour; Nov 12 2017 at 11:56 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by canyouaddcolour View Post
    Thank you. Also worth noting that 10 minutes enrage =/= must kill in 10 mins. There's ways to go a little past.

    The DPS requirement is fine (arguably a little low -- but it's boss 1), and outgoing damage currently is far too low to create any stressful moments or requirements of synchronizing CDs, etc.

    (Also before it gets mentioned... My raid team is required to only use gear they have on live or gear they will be acquiring soon and we went in with full mits builds... which we didn't need due to low outgoing damage, but didn't adjust due to expecting more hard hitting mechanics at some point -- first night in with boss 1 having mechanics and us being with prog group)
    We also use only live gear for raid testing
    DPS requrement is quite high in case if changes to outgoing damage will be made.
    I like the real difference between T2 and T2C, so this boss won't become a stopper for many kins i believe as it was in Throne with Mumaks
    Xolla;Tishina\Arkenstone

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siddharta View Post
    We also use only live gear for raid testing
    DPS requrement is quite high in case if changes to outgoing damage will be made.
    I like the real difference between T2 and T2C, so this boss won't become a stopper for many kins i believe as it was in Throne with Mumaks
    Yeah, I mean I guess the DPS requirement will def be challenging if healing is more stressed and you need a 3rd healer. That's definitely true. I don't necessarily want a 3rd healer to feel required but I wouldn't be upset if we didn't have enough DPS to kill it day one due to needing 3 healers until we get more gear from the raid. I would prefer not to kill the boss on day one T2C. Might put it out of the reach of a bunch of people -- but there's also more gear available as you progress through the raid and T2 is very good as you mentioned -- a good progression boss.

    I also am not saying we need to buff outgoing damage to the point where 3rd healer is required, that's an option, but -- the Devoted Supplicants need to buff the bosses to the point of needing the boss tanks to use a CD, IMO, and the general aoe damage (Blood Sickness, Tainted Bile) needs to be buffed. Also, the 'chains/teleport' mechanic could do a little more damage. As it is with 2 pretty great healers (maybe 95th percentile, hard to gauge across lotro for sure and I'm biased!) both of them felt very relaxed and like one of them could have potentially solo healed it with better usage of cooldowns by others. I want it back to the point where they're both at least somewhat challenged, and people can't just spread Blood Sickness with no worries. Not necessarily to the point where we need a 3rd healer.

    P.S. I meant the 'live gear requirement' as a defense against people suggesting that my and your point of view was based on us going in with 18 light gear, empowered abyssal essences, etc. I have great respect for your Kinship (and I also think Faded looks like a very skilled Kin, too!).
    Last edited by canyouaddcolour; Nov 12 2017 at 12:09 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by canyouaddcolour View Post
    I would prefer not to kill the boss on day one T2C.
    Yes, but I think he will not survive the first day, as we have at least a couple of beta rounds left.
    High hopes that Sagróg and King Váskmun encounters will be a hell
    Xolla;Tishina\Arkenstone

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Funari View Post
    The first boss seems very easy, the incoming damage is very light and bosses/sub-bosses do not hit very hard.
    Something more should be done with that eye too. If I wanted to make this a bit harder, I'd probably add a corruption cycle similar to last boss in BG or alternatively the three sub-bosses in Unbroken One to the Spoiled. Currently they do not really hit hard.

    Also, I have been told that during the first boss you can pull everything to one side of the wall, then the tank goes around to the room where the spider boss comes out and they'll get stuck - the DPS can sit the other side and pew pew which no doubt kinships such as the one included in your video will do.
    Thanks! Updated the OP with mention of the bug.

    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    If they are to massively increase dmg of the bosses or sidebosses, I'm afraid you won't be able to outheal this with 2 minstrels and atm the way fight is builded, you need zerg dps setup, so preferably 1 yellow and 1 blue mini.

    So theres 3 solutions to this

    1 - Remove the fullheal on bosses after you defeat ent and boost DMG of the side bosses.
    2 - Keep the fullheal but change little bit the eye mechanic.
    3 - Buff dmg of main bosses but increase main timer to 12 minutes.


    or just become mirkovic and exploit
    Quote Originally Posted by canyouaddcolour View Post
    Yeah, I mean I guess the DPS requirement will def be challenging if healing is more stressed and you need a 3rd healer. That's definitely true. I don't necessarily want a 3rd healer to feel required but I wouldn't be upset if we didn't have enough DPS to kill it day one due to needing 3 healers until we get more gear from the raid. I would prefer not to kill the boss on day one T2C. Might put it out of the reach of a bunch of people -- but there's also more gear available as you progress through the raid and T2 is very good as you mentioned -- a good progression boss.

    I also am not saying we need to buff outgoing damage to the point where 3rd healer is required, that's an option, but -- the Devoted Supplicants need to buff the bosses to the point of needing the boss tanks to use a CD, IMO, and the general aoe damage (Blood Sickness, Tainted Bile) needs to be buffed. Also, the 'chains/teleport' mechanic could do a little more damage. As it is with 2 pretty great healers (maybe 95th percentile, hard to gauge across lotro for sure and I'm biased!) both of them felt very relaxed and like one of them could have potentially solo healed it with better usage of cooldowns by others. I want it back to the point where they're both at least somewhat challenged, and people can't just spread Blood Sickness with no worries. Not necessarily to the point where we need a 3rd healer.

    P.S. I meant the 'live gear requirement' as a defense against people suggesting that my and your point of view was based on us going in with 18 light gear, empowered abyssal essences, etc. I have great respect for your Kinship (and I also think Faded looks like a very skilled Kin, too!).
    /signed

    I'm all for seeing an increase to the damage done by the boss, and 3 side bosses especially. I didn't save the parses, but TPS was extremely low from a raid boss of any form.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    or just become mirkovic and exploit
    Exploiting like this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by canyouaddcolour View Post
    I also am not saying we need to buff outgoing damage to the point where 3rd healer is required, that's an option, but -- the Devoted Supplicants need to buff the bosses to the point of needing the boss tanks to use a CD, IMO, and the general aoe damage (Blood Sickness, Tainted Bile) needs to be buffed. Also, the 'chains/teleport' mechanic could do a little more damage. As it is with 2 pretty great healers (maybe 95th percentile, hard to gauge across lotro for sure and I'm biased!) both of them felt very relaxed and like one of them could have potentially solo healed it with better usage of cooldowns by others. I want it back to the point where they're both at least somewhat challenged, and people can't just spread Blood Sickness with no worries. Not necessarily to the point where we need a 3rd healer.
    I hope the devs hear this : )

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    Change loot locks into raid locks? so you don't have to a full challenger run in order to get to the last boss

  17. #17
    I Found the fight really boring, the trash has more interesting mecanics imo

    This might be due to the low incoming damage that is dealt there, there is only a little burst from the spirits. There is nothing that holds me in the edge and no satisfaction after beating it, because it doesnt seem really hard at all.

    I was never a fan of dps races. You can all go full glass on hunter/rk because u only have to move away from puddles and the damage you get is very low.

    Fix the challenge, you get it even when you dont let them sacrifice.

  18. #18

  19. #19
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    Did they nerf the damage from the bosses from B1 to B2? Looking at the video, tps on tanks seemed really low without being proactive with CDs.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dselden View Post
    Did they nerf the damage from the bosses from B1 to B2? Looking at the video, tps on tanks seemed really low without being proactive with CDs.
    Yeah the outgoing damage from the bosses is nowhere near as high as it was in first build (no mechanics). Also a variety of the mechanics for the rest of the raid don't hit hard enough to add any stress and can mostly be ignored. I love the ideas in the fight and mechanics (best first boss fight in a LONG time as far as mechanics IMO), but they're definitely not tuned right yet. A very significant outgoing damage buff will help.

    Worth noting it's possible the dev in charge of this knows that, and is just leaving things relatively easily completed at the moment so that we can test all the mechanics and whether they're working, and we can move on to bosses 2 and 3. Might be already planning to raise the outgoing damage prior to or at release. Would make sense.

    Regardless, it is certainly worth making sure it's known that things (bosses, devoted buff, blood sickness, maybe tainted bile, etc) aren't hitting anywhere near hard enough yet, and I'd rather them start the raid tier with the bosses hitting too hard for T2C but still able to be completed on T2 (extra healers/tanks/support), than for it to be left in it's current state.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by canyouaddcolour View Post
    Yeah the outgoing damage from the bosses is nowhere near as high as it was in first build (no mechanics). Also a variety of the mechanics for the rest of the raid don't hit hard enough to add any stress and can mostly be ignored. I love the ideas in the fight and mechanics (best first boss fight in a LONG time as far as mechanics IMO), but they're definitely not tuned right yet. A very significant outgoing damage buff will help.

    Worth noting it's possible the dev in charge of this knows that, and is just leaving things relatively easily completed at the moment so that we can test all the mechanics and whether they're working, and we can move on to bosses 2 and 3. Might be already planning to raise the outgoing damage prior to or at release. Would make sense.

    Regardless, it is certainly worth making sure it's known that things (bosses, devoted buff, blood sickness, maybe tainted bile, etc) aren't hitting anywhere near hard enough yet, and I'd rather them start the raid tier with the bosses hitting too hard for T2C but still able to be completed on T2 (extra healers/tanks/support), than for it to be left in it's current state.
    I hope pinion does this. Crank the raid to eleven on the release. Let people complete it now, spot bugs and feel the balance and just turn the volume a bit higher for harder completion.

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    Careful to not turn this fight into dungeons of naerband.

    By that i'm not saying the fight should not get buffed, i'm up to see it little bit more challenging but we all know what happens when we ask SSG for harder fights, thrankul is a great example.

    Also like I mentioned before, damage is 1 thing that SSG can't handle in this game correctly, i'd be more then happy to see extra mechanics over damage, the way fight is builded would be much better.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    Careful to not turn this fight into dungeons of naerband.

    By that i'm not saying the fight should not get buffed, i'm up to see it little bit more challenging but we all know what happens when we ask SSG for harder fights, thrankul is a great example.

    Also like I mentioned before, damage is 1 thing that SSG can't handle in this game correctly, i'd be more then happy to see extra mechanics over damage, the way fight is builded would be much better.
    Agreed, clever mechanics over straight damage.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by elzeqq View Post
    Also like I mentioned before, damage is 1 thing that SSG can't handle in this game correctly, i'd be more then happy to see extra mechanics over damage, the way fight is builded would be much better.
    The fight already has some cool mechanics but half of them can simply be ignored because their effects are hardly noticable. The Devoted Supplicants buff is only one of many examples.

    I'm not saying a flat damage increase is the best solution but I believe it's better to first make sure the already existing mechanics can't be ignored before asking for completely new mechanics. And yes, some mechanics can be made relevant by increasing the damage of certain effects or mobs. At least that's the easiest way to do it and with limited dev resources it's probably the only option.


    Also: The enrage timer should only be nerfed if the devs make other parts of the fight significantly more challenging to compensate for it! In the current build and the current state of mechanics, the enrage timer is not too hard to beat!
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruadarion View Post
    The fight already has some cool mechanics but half of them can simply be ignored because their effects are hardly noticable. The Devoted Supplicants buff is only one of many examples.
    Agreed, they should produce a buff that is actually noticeable. I have always been a fan of corruption bosses like Durchest, LT, UO. Corruptions seem to scare players as it's an uncommon concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eruadarion View Post
    Also: The enrage timer is totally fine and should not be nerfed!
    Agreed, did the boss with live gear last night with over 40s to spare with not exactly the optimum group or strategy.

 

 
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