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  1. #101
    Let's face it, ash farming in landscape grinding mobs is one of the most tedious ways of getting armour atm, it's boring, takes long, and you're just hoping for RNG to get enough ashes to get good gear for instances.
    My point is, if people are willing to spend literally 100h in the same spot killing respawning enemies just to gear one alt rather than paying real money and buying keys, most probably they wouldn't buy keys even if it was the only option to get ash. I got all my gear with boxes doing lots of dailies on multiple alts, and doing seregost once I had my main geared. Just removing ash farm would lead to all those people farming ashes just not gearing and waiting for the next update to do anything, so they wouldn't even try the raid, SSG won't get any more money from keys than they are already getting, it feels just like a strategy to punish those people not paying and force them out of the game, which is in my opinion a really bad move.
    Let ash farmers be or just remove completely instance gear from p2w mechanic, store should be for cosmetics, some bonuses, accelerators, something to make your gaming quicker or more relaxed, not the way to get the required gear in the game since it would lead to more people leaving the game.

  2. #102
    Sadly, the point I feel isn't being acknowledged in this discussion, is that lockboxes work. i.e. they make game companies money.
    The people who are contributing to this thread are probably the least likely group to actually buy a key for a lockbox. The reason people here can't understand the move towards P2W, is that they are not the target audience for this mechanic.
    I happen to think that SSG's approach to this is clumsy and a little underhand, and I doubt very much that they will see the benefits they are hoping for, but their motivation is driven by the industry trend towards micro-transactions and lockboxes. Their implementation, however, is being poorly executed.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westnovote View Post
    Sadly, the point I feel isn't being acknowledged in this discussion, is that lockboxes work. i.e. they make game companies money.
    The people who are contributing to this thread are probably the least likely group to actually buy a key for a lockbox. The reason people here can't understand the move towards P2W, is that they are not the target audience for this mechanic.
    I happen to think that SSG's approach to this is clumsy and a little underhand, and I doubt very much that they will see the benefits they are hoping for, but their motivation is driven by the industry trend towards micro-transactions and lockboxes. Their implementation, however, is being poorly executed.
    No we understand it completely and yes we are not the ones contributing to it. But in the long run and this has been shown with multiple games, p2w is a game killer. I just recently had a game announce it is going to be run by a different company on different servers and is no longer in development. Why, because of P2W and Lootbox Mechanics which chased away their core playerbase. Sure they would get hit with a quick bunch of $$$ whenever they released something new, but longterm players who could compete with the p2w crowd (and those longterm players would drop dough on the game frequently but when the company showed their money did not matter they left). The quality in development started to fall because instead of interesting areas to play or new mechanics, all we got was rehashes of old areas and new cosmetics for old weapons oh and of course new boxes new keys and new 1 shot weapons and armor that withstand the 1 shot. (The game was a fps). So long term the game ended up losing. They could not even afford to pay devs to create new areas and resorted as a last ditch effort to make more boxes with more keys and at this point majority of the playerbase had left except for those dropping the dough on keys. They got bored because hey, who could they 1 shot... all the other players had the armor to negate that, so they left. Now the game is basically done. You can still play it but the cheaper servers are a laggy mess. It is sad to see a fun game fall apart. But hey, Nexon made those quick cash grabs, Sadly, those quick grabs could not sustain them long term.

    This is the path those of us see lotro heading down with these tactics. When you go for the quick cash grab, the long term can not be sustained unless you constantly do quick cash grabs. They as developers need to put their heads together and think of ways to make long term sustained cash. VIP is not worth it for a lot of players. Oooh mail in the wild and PvP. So what does Lotro do, basically ignore the PvP crowd over and over. Its like biting the hand that feeds them. But instead of making VIP worht it, or restructuring their f2p method (I.E. Make all areas pre Moria f2p and make all expansions up to Mordor part of VIP (of course still buy them if not vip) and all quest packs post Moria vip)) to me would be a start. Lower the cost of some items on the store so more people will buy them. Make some items in the store that are barely sold account wide (like warsteed color packs) and for gods sake make all steeds account wide (as well as cosmetics (as someone who plays on multiple servers if I buy an outfit from lailas or the store it should be available on all servers not just the 1 I purchased it on))

    But nah, lets make more boxes and more keys, cause suckers will buy them. All it is doing is feeding peoples addictive behavours. It is underhanded and really to me sad. But be honest, how many times are you going to pay to gear up?
    I saw the light fade from the sky
    On the wind I heard a sigh
    As the snowflakes cover my fallen brothers
    I will say this last goodbye

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    150 light is dirty easy to get and 105 versio that everyone keeps grinding dont even have that. Just barter bunch of purple allegiance gear and one crafted item and one has 160 light. Really one is just fine doing t1 115 with about 110 or so light. Its soloable on that level with proper gear so im sure bunch of underlighted players can do it... Even t2 requirement isnt hard to reach, it just requires some thought put into what is reasonable to wear.

    Also landscape drops were never required to complete questing, one gets sufficient amount of light from quests.
    Boasting about how easy you find the game isn't going to change the fact that gearing and progression have been very poorly thought out and are about to get worse.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertes View Post
    I think the answer is, use crafted gear and run instances. Like cord said Ashe was intendet to be a safety net for people who habe badluck with instance loot and not as the Main way to grind gear.
    Crafted gear has zero use to level 112 players, they can't use it. Ash drops were originally in game and all ash was bound to character. At level 112, one could use some accumulated ash to purchase the level 112 ash gear, to gain a boost to their LoE before going to Talath Urui and Agarnaith.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Crafted gear has zero use to level 112 players, they can't use it. Ash drops were originally in game and all ash was bound to character. At level 112, one could use some accumulated ash to purchase the level 112 ash gear, to gain a boost to their LoE before going to Talath Urui and Agarnaith.
    Collect landscape rare treasure boxes? Purple items and a lot of them. Fixed locations...

  7. #107
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    Thumbs up

    Just in case some of You miss that other post that is outside of this thread. There has been an official response to the dailies not rewarding Black Steel Keys on Bullroarer:

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthCeltics View Post
    Yes, this is in fact a bug. Thank you for bringing it to our attention!
    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." /Edward Snowden
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Collect landscape rare treasure boxes? Purple items and a lot of them. Fixed locations...
    The majority of which are placed in level 115 end game camps (dailies), so . . . still useless to a level 112 character with low LoE.

    Face facts, when you and I ran this stuff, we GOT landscape drops, to help us progress along. Some we equipped, some we broke for ash, then we were able to barter for a few pieces at level 112.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    The majority of which are placed in level 115 end game camps (dailies), so . . . still useless to a level 112 character with low LoE.

    Face facts, when you and I ran this stuff, we GOT landscape drops, to help us progress along. Some we equipped, some we broke for ash, then we were able to barter for a few pieces at level 112.
    There are good ten or so that you can easily collect as low level character...

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    There are good ten or so that you can easily collect as low level character...
    Besides the point Sipperi. Right up until - they remove the items from landscape - we all had (and still currently have) those few extra drops to help us along the way and to allow us to barter at level 112. It's easy to say "it's easy" when we all have/had that advantage. Even with that advantage, some people are still stuggling with TU.

    They need to find another way to allow players that are questing (not farming) to be able to reliably barter at level 112, else, there is no point even having that armour in the game. Removal of all ability to earn ash before cap - makes it obsolete.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Besides the point Sipperi. Right up until - they remove the items from landscape - we all had (and still currently have) those few extra drops to help us along the way and to allow us to barter at level 112. It's easy to say "it's easy" when we all have/had that advantage. Even with that advantage, some people are still stuggling with TU.

    They need to find another way to allow players that are questing (not farming) to be able to reliably barter at level 112, else, there is no point even having that armour in the game. Removal of all ability to earn ash before cap - makes it obsolete.
    I love how something doesn't suit you, you always say it doesn't matter.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Besides the point Sipperi. Right up until - they remove the items from landscape - we all had (and still currently have) those few extra drops to help us along the way and to allow us to barter at level 112. It's easy to say "it's easy" when we all have/had that advantage. Even with that advantage, some people are still stuggling with TU.

    They need to find another way to allow players that are questing (not farming) to be able to reliably barter at level 112, else, there is no point even having that armour in the game. Removal of all ability to earn ash before cap - makes it obsolete.
    They could remove shadow, half the light requirement in landscape, or double the light on the quest rewards. I will not be affected since I will enter Mordor with lvl 115 characters and some ash. At 115 I can also use crafted gear. This will really hit the players who come in at 105 without ash. Who wants to spend time in old content to change essences and level to 106+ to be able to do Mordor content? And I think there will be players who don't know about the drastic difficulty increase.

  13. #113
    I just hope, they dont nerf Mordor before it gets released (for LP). Would be quite hard to not have the fun of challenging landscape, just because of being half a year late...
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    I just hope, they dont nerf Mordor before it gets released (for LP). Would be quite hard to not have the fun of challenging landscape, just because of being half a year late...
    There's no need for them to nerf it. All they need do is give people that are coming into Mordor after the change, the same kind of footup that we all got while questing. Contrary to what Sipp thinks, this isn't about me. I have taken five through Mordor and have two more already on their way. I have some ash in my wallet for their 112 gear already, and five capped alts continuously keeping it topped up (his circumstances are pretty similar I'm sure). That won't be the case for people entering for the first time. They will have - what we that have already run Mordor had in terms of difficulty - minus the leg ups, that we all had along the way. Yes, we all had them - they didn't add that level 112 gear for decoration. They put it there, and we all used it, with ash we accumulated from drops along the way (or we gained some loE with teal pieces we equipped).

    "I'm alright Jack" is all very well, but if the people new to Mordor can't get through the content because of these changes - that is the most likely reason they will ever nerf it.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Nov 14 2017 at 06:18 PM.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Lets be honest for a second here. Hytbold armor was on most cases superior to t1 armor labeling it irrelevant. On top of this raid part of cluster and 6 man were just terrible. Only bfe was nice from bunch and rest suffered from extreme brokenness or just stupid design. People complained a lot and that was cluster they managed to create with 4x bigger team than current one. So only progression there was for many classes was hytbold to t2 armor... Also lets not forget fiasco of personal loot... Having done bfe t2cm and nothing dropped to entire group worth of mentioning...
    The major point of his post was not that this era was perfect. Rather, that the itemisation pathing was the closest to perfect this game has seen. There were greater, overarching issues with those updates - no point denying that. But these issues were not of the same domain as the itemization path. Sure, specific set bonuses, stat values and mix and matching could have been a lot better. Sure, instances could have been way better thought out and polished. Notice that the latter point speaks nothing towards the itemization options that were available by the end of the Xpac.

    Right now we have, or are going to get gear with good mix and match potential. After the next update, we will have 'ok' instances and what will most likely be another fun raid. The overarching issue of Mordor is the itemisation pathing. This issue is a level of seriousness over and above that of the broken instances (after all, concerns about instance balance are only ever predicated on there being a decent itemisation path). By the time the raid comes out, the pathing will have completely changed several times over. As in, they will not have added any pathing options, but literally replaced and re-incentivised them.

    It is clear there was never any solid itemisation plans here, and that they are struggling to make up their mind about which is the best for the gameplay experience, as well as the most profitable.


    You need to stop beating your chest on this topic, mate. You're avoiding the core issue as a result.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constrictions View Post
    You need to stop beating your chest on this topic, mate. You're avoiding the core issue as a result.
    But that is his MO, he doesn't know how to argue with any real integrity so he purposely clouds the waters.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constrictions View Post
    The major point of his post was not that this era was perfect. Rather, that the itemisation pathing was the closest to perfect this game has seen. There were greater, overarching issues with those updates - no point denying that. But these issues were not of the same domain as the itemization path. Sure, specific set bonuses, stat values and mix and matching could have been a lot better. Sure, instances could have been way better thought out and polished. Notice that the latter point speaks nothing towards the itemization options that were available by the end of the Xpac.

    Right now we have, or are going to get gear with good mix and match potential. After the next update, we will have 'ok' instances and what will most likely be another fun raid. The overarching issue of Mordor is the itemisation pathing. This issue is a level of seriousness over and above that of the broken instances (after all, concerns about instance balance are only ever predicated on there being a decent itemisation path). By the time the raid comes out, the pathing will have completely changed several times over. As in, they will not have added any pathing options, but literally replaced and re-incentivised them.

    It is clear there was never any solid itemisation plans here, and that they are struggling to make up their mind about which is the best for the gameplay experience, as well as the most profitable.


    You need to stop beating your chest on this topic, mate. You're avoiding the core issue as a result.
    Tower of Orthanc, Draigoch, Ost Dunhoth, Moria and Mirkwood all disagree with your comment.

    They pretty much "perfected" loot during the 2011 era of raiding/group content. Since then, whatever stroke and lack of looking backwards has stopped devs from actually taking a second and ask "Do we really need to reinvent something that works?" Instead, it's Never-mind! Let's Have Another Crack At It - While during the Erebor Era said "wheel" resembled that of a cinder-block welded to an axle. Now they had something close to perfect with Throne (was still some very serious gripes like how T1 gear being essentially absent on the tier its actually freaking meant for,) and they've started mixing up the concrete again.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denhith View Post
    But that is his MO, he doesn't know how to argue with any real integrity so he purposely clouds the waters.
    Yeah it is a certain tactic you see in a lot of political arguments on facebook, when someone has nothing valid to say the divert to another argument in an attempt to look better. It happens, I saw it happen with his post and when I explained myself he diverted even further away which is why I disengaged. Thanks for the understanding though
    I saw the light fade from the sky
    On the wind I heard a sigh
    As the snowflakes cover my fallen brothers
    I will say this last goodbye

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallandil View Post
    Tower of Orthanc, Draigoch, Ost Dunhoth, Moria and Mirkwood all disagree with your comment.

    They pretty much "perfected" loot during the 2011 era of raiding/group content. Since then, whatever stroke and lack of looking backwards has stopped devs from actually taking a second and ask "Do we really need to reinvent something that works?" Instead, it's Never-mind! Let's Have Another Crack At It - While during the Erebor Era said "wheel" resembled that of a cinder-block welded to an axle. Now they had something close to perfect with Throne (was still some very serious gripes like how T1 gear being essentially absent on the tier its actually freaking meant for,) and they've started mixing up the concrete again.
    .
    A can not speak pre-Isengard as I came after Moria and Mirkwood launched, but my question is, did they have different paths to gearing like mentioned with hytbold other than crafting? Did solo players have something to do that gave them loot that was almost as good as the raid loot? Because again, the only time I remember that being almost pefect was Hytbold and yes I may be looking through a but of a rose colored tinge, and yes the raids at that point were horrible. But with isengard, I do not remember dailies that gave gear. I remember Draigoch gear and the cloak (which was horrible rng based to get) and Isengard sure had some barter armor and a raid set with deed unlocks. But that was run over and grab the purple set. So where was there a seperate path for solo players / non groupers? I am confused?

    Now speaking of actual coolness of the instance clusters.... yeah, that fell off a cliff after Isengard
    I saw the light fade from the sky
    On the wind I heard a sigh
    As the snowflakes cover my fallen brothers
    I will say this last goodbye

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    .
    A can not speak pre-Isengard as I came after Moria and Mirkwood launched, but my question is, did they have different paths to gearing like mentioned with hytbold other than crafting? Did solo players have something to do that gave them loot that was almost as good as the raid loot? Because again, the only time I remember that being almost pefect was Hytbold and yes I may be looking through a but of a rose colored tinge, and yes the raids at that point were horrible. But with isengard, I do not remember dailies that gave gear. I remember Draigoch gear and the cloak (which was horrible rng based to get) and Isengard sure had some barter armor and a raid set with deed unlocks. But that was run over and grab the purple set. So where was there a seperate path for solo players / non groupers? I am confused?

    Now speaking of actual coolness of the instance clusters.... yeah, that fell off a cliff after Isengard
    Yes you are confused.

    Complains about draigoch classic loot - praises RoR gearing with raids.

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    So where was there a seperate path for solo players / non groupers? I am confused?
    Pre-Isengard you'd pick up a few good/potentially BiS pieces from the odd epic quest but in general landscape content just gave you enough gear to continue doing landscape content. Once you finished the landscape content (and thus hit the level cap) you started the instance progression system of gearing so that you could take on the harder instances.

    There wasn't a separate path for non groupers because there wasn't a need for one. The higher tiers of gear were designed to be used in the higher tiers of group content; if you didn't want to group then you didn't need to get the gear for grouping because there wasn't anything for you to do with that gear.
    ~ I tank with a Beorning, my opinion is invalid. ~

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    Pre-Isengard you'd pick up a few good/potentially BiS pieces from the odd epic quest but in general landscape content just gave you enough gear to continue doing landscape content. Once you finished the landscape content (and thus hit the level cap) you started the instance progression system of gearing so that you could take on the harder instances.

    There wasn't a separate path for non groupers because there wasn't a need for one. The higher tiers of gear were designed to be used in the higher tiers of group content; if you didn't want to group then you didn't need to get the gear for grouping because there wasn't anything for you to do with that gear.
    Meanwhile post RoR landscape must have had the best armor at some point. On many cases surpassing ones getting from multiple player instances. Ah good old times... Were casual player? Just craft gear or use landscape/rep gear and be done with it. Be instance runner? Get instance gear and eventually raid gear, be done with it. Problem started when people thought they need same level of gear as people who group thus began rolling phenom of more and more stronger landscape gear which totally defeated point of everyone grouping that was very much essential how people played and liked playing this game once in the past. Now people just farm dailies or 10 levels under level content and moan about the grind. Combine this all greed of gear and stats and there you go P2W lootboxes.

    All it would have taken would have been to copy 105 level cap gear system. Landscape-FI/instance-raid gears. All having small difference on usability. Clear difference is there still on raid vs similar ilvl gear, but it's still stupid practice to allow non raider to get same strength gear on the release of the raid. I won't mind few months after to give as strong non set bonus gear but there always should be that time where raid gear is clearly the best.

  23. #123
    Remove bind-on-acquire from items and wa-la, this expansion will actually be enjoyable. You might even start something of an economy within the game.

    BoA turns players into tools. There's no reason anyway that I shouldn't be able to hand some armor to another player for a price.
    Illydros Squanto Ulricson Saridas Gap

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by 007Squanto View Post
    BoA turns players into tools. There's no reason anyway that I shouldn't be able to hand some armor to another player for a price.
    Terrible idea. You know that you can buy gold for real world money? Either directly from gold sellers or indirectly via the LOTRO Store if you sell store items such as Solvents, Black Steel Keys, etc.? Ultimate Pay-to-Win.

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by DisplTru View Post
    Terrible idea. You know that you can buy gold for real world money? Either directly from gold sellers or indirectly via the LOTRO Store if you sell store items such as Solvents, Black Steel Keys, etc.? Ultimate Pay-to-Win.
    Like most previous level caps? Selling crafted or instance gear was totally typical... That sounds like uhm like working MMORPG....

    Compared to game where you get only drops you can't use and you destroy them to eventually get one piece you might need.

 

 
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