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  1. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Hzn View Post
    +1000
    Warden DPS set is just a bad joke, proving once again that the Dev don't even know what they are doing.
    Bring back the +3 dot ticks, so at least we can use more than 6 dots in a rotation.
    They have changed set bonus from +25% bleed damage to +3 dot pulses in last bullroarer build. There is still issue with blue tanking set - dps stats on crafted tank helmet and maybe other pieces are broken too. Warden has very good set bonuses, will this be enough to help us get spot in raid? Maybe as offtank with yellow set for debuffs or second rate dps with +3 dots or third rate dps with yellow debuff set.
    Laurelin: Kinship - Outcasts
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  2. #127
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    Meanwhile, Hunters set bonuses reduce a useless skill's cooldown by an arbitrary (and equally useless) amount. Another set has literally zero impact on anything outside of PVP, which is so ridiculously broken that the additional healing from a 5-second-faster Blood-arrow is entirely redundant. And the only set-bonus that may be worth using, off-sets Burn Hot with Rapid-fire, lowering DPS.

    Hunter is insanely boring to play right now, it's slow, clunky and DPS is only marginally above a good RK with +2 pulses, I was really hoping a decent set bonus would revive us, or just y'know, give us HS reset back so the class can be entertaining to play again?

    Kek.
    #15skills

  3. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Starkorm View Post
    Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't realize it combined with the trait. (I only play guardian these days)
    However,
    It states the target will receive +3% incoming damage. Nowhere does it denote melee incoming damage only. The same applies to the trait. Either the text is wrong, and needs to be properly updated; or the traits are bugged, and need to apply incoming damage bonuses for tactical and ranged as well. Regardless, as is, only 5% incoming melee damage is still an extremely underwhelming -raid- set bonus.
    I cant believe that cappy will receive normal set bonus. With mordor cappys support and tank power nerfed to zero lvl. To fix it bonuses must be like: +10% to telling mark for red, +10% to mitigation for group for yellow, nothing for blue (its cant be fixed). But at this moment we have only +20%to dots->+3% for melee from crits and still bugged yellow and blue sets. No reason to wait some thing good.

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Meanwhile, Hunters set bonuses reduce a useless skill's cooldown by an arbitrary (and equally useless) amount. Another set has literally zero impact on anything outside of PVP, which is so ridiculously broken that the additional healing from a 5-second-faster Blood-arrow is entirely redundant. And the only set-bonus that may be worth using, off-sets Burn Hot with Rapid-fire, lowering DPS.

    Hunter is insanely boring to play right now, it's slow, clunky and DPS is only marginally above a good RK with +2 pulses, I was really hoping a decent set bonus would revive us, or just y'know, give us HS reset back so the class can be entertaining to play again?

    Kek.
    You aren't very good hunter if you think DPS is only marginally above RKs. Only place where RK competes with hunter atm is in 3 man space in classic setup of tank+healer+DPS, where they are relatively close due hunters armor penetration being low. But if setup is RK+Hunter+Tank, hunter does easily more DPS and it's even more clear in raids. Having seen hunter literally pull 120k more dps in same situation than RK is quite depressing. Raid relic will push gap smaller sure, but no doubt hunter will still be on top.

  5. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    You aren't very good hunter if you think DPS is only marginally above RKs. Only place where RK competes with hunter atm is in 3 man space in classic setup of tank+healer+DPS, where they are relatively close due hunters armor penetration being low. But if setup is RK+Hunter+Tank, hunter does easily more DPS and it's even more clear in raids. Having seen hunter literally pull 120k more dps in same situation than RK is quite depressing. Raid relic will push gap smaller sure, but no doubt hunter will still be on top.
    I've outdpsed supposedly decent and good geared hunter (in the same group) with my rk with 150k mastery 50k finesse and 48k crit in long fights (1min or so), put that mastery to 200k like many got and add +2 pulses (which for some people it barely makes a difference but for me it's like a 30% increase). I'm not saying that rk outdps hunter, since good hunters are outdpsing rks easily but certainly average/random runekeepers will outdps probably 80% of hunters if the rk is good geared.

  6. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    I've outdpsed supposedly decent and good geared hunter (in the same group) with my rk with 150k mastery 50k finesse and 48k crit in long fights (1min or so), put that mastery to 200k like many got and add +2 pulses (which for some people it barely makes a difference but for me it's like a 30% increase). I'm not saying that rk outdps hunter, since good hunters are outdpsing rks easily but certainly average/random runekeepers will outdps probably 80% of hunters if the rk is good geared.
    you got me until 50k finesse... I'm guessing you play on Crickhollow?

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    I've outdpsed supposedly decent and good geared hunter (in the same group) with my rk with 150k mastery 50k finesse and 48k crit in long fights (1min or so), put that mastery to 200k like many got and add +2 pulses (which for some people it barely makes a difference but for me it's like a 30% increase). I'm not saying that rk outdps hunter, since good hunters are outdpsing rks easily but certainly average/random runekeepers will outdps probably 80% of hunters if the rk is good geared.
    What does it matter if good player out DPS bad one? I can out dps some hunters on minstrel. Doesn't mean minstrel has good dps.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    What does it matter if good player out DPS bad one? I can out dps some hunters on minstrel. Doesn't mean minstrel has good dps.
    This. I can outdps bad hunters on my cappy who has about 100k mastery. Does this mean that captain remotely resembles hunter dps?
    Eredor-Champion, Ereworn-Minstrel, Ereshorn-Runekeeper, Eresworn-Hunter, Eremourn-Burglar, Erehorn-Captain, Erelorn-Warden, Eretorn-Lore-Master, Erescorn-Guardian... And Erecorn-Master Farmer

  9. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Krindel View Post
    They have changed set bonus from +25% bleed damage to +3 dot pulses in last bullroarer build. There is still issue with blue tanking set - dps stats on crafted tank helmet and maybe other pieces are broken too. Warden has very good set bonuses, will this be enough to help us get spot in raid? Maybe as offtank with yellow set for debuffs or second rate dps with +3 dots or third rate dps with yellow debuff set.
    Woot, it's a miracle.
    I think the warden is definitely viable as a secondary tank, dps & decorrupt bot for this raid.

  10. #135
    +3 dot pulses for wardens should never have started happening at all.
    Thats like +30% dps in long fights by a setbonus. just too strong. without it, warden dps is irrelevant, with it it might be viable...
    so who wants his warden to be carried through a raid as long as its challenging to contribute in farming it after being fully geared up?
    those dot pulses need to go to traitlines (make 5 ticks standard and 7 available redtraited, then +1 pulse setbonus) or bleeds generally need a buff... getting classes kind-of-balanced with relics and setbonusses is bull####.
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  11. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    +3 dot pulses for wardens should never have started happening at all.
    Thats like +30% dps in long fights by a setbonus. just too strong. without it, warden dps is irrelevant, with it it might be viable...
    so who wants his warden to be carried through a raid as long as its challenging to contribute in farming it after being fully geared up?
    those dot pulses need to go to traitlines (make 5 ticks standard and 7 available redtraited, then +1 pulse setbonus) or bleeds generally need a buff... getting classes kind-of-balanced with relics and setbonusses is bull####.
    I back this. Changing to +3 ticks was not the way to go and shows apathy, laziness or both.

    Warden DPS needs to be buffed and brought more in line with other obvious class choices. What do to about a red set-bonus? How about anything other than spear bleed damage. Get creative, the thought of a short buff(with an internal cd) to -attack duration easily comes to mind since you know we gambit and you THE DEVS destroyed Adroit Manoeuvre years ago. This is just a thought, coming up with more is easy peasy when you know the class. Here's another just for kicks, Javelin clickies become fast skills for a short period of time so we can avoid those horrendously lame and slow animations.... Lots of good options out there other than more of the same.
    Pls fix me.

  12. #137
    Might be bit off topic,but those who say +3 dots will make warden viable even tho its good setbonus that should be moved to trait line,there is no set bonus that can make physical(and light in warden case) damage class viable as DPS in raid as long as fire mits are at 0% while other are well over 40% in some cases.

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    I've outdpsed supposedly decent and good geared hunter (in the same group) with my rk with 150k mastery 50k finesse and 48k crit in long fights (1min or so), put that mastery to 200k like many got and add +2 pulses (which for some people it barely makes a difference but for me it's like a 30% increase). I'm not saying that rk outdps hunter, since good hunters are outdpsing rks easily but certainly average/random runekeepers will outdps probably 80% of hunters if the rk is good geared.
    Cmon mate. Nowaday pretty much everyone is "geared". Pick a hunter and a rk with the same skill and you will see the difference. I dont complain about rk dps, just saying.
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
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  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osglinthor View Post
    Might be bit off topic,but those who say +3 dots will make warden viable even tho its good setbonus that should be moved to trait line,there is no set bonus that can make physical(and light in warden case) damage class viable as DPS in raid as long as fire mits are at 0% while other are well over 40% in some cases.
    Warden dps with pulse bonus isnt that bad if compared to red champ, for example. Ofc it doesnt makes ward a top dps, but it's in a good shape imho. Only problem is the light dmg as you said.
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
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  15. #140
    Thanks for updating Warden set bonus to +3 dots and LM set bonus to +20 SI duration, they are acceptable now.

    Any more update on the other raid sets? Currently the following armor set bonuses are still weak/useless compared to other sets and needs to be changed before going live:

    - Champion: Yellow, Red, Blue line set bonuses.
    - Guardian: Red, Yellow
    - Hunter: Yellow, Red (Blood Arrow -CD is good bonus but it gives them great survivability which is not needed, especially concerning PvP), Blue
    - Captain: Yellow, Red, Blue
    - Rune-Keeper: Blue

    Others already pointed out why these sets are lackluster so no point explaining further.
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  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfdur View Post
    Thanks for updating Warden set bonus to +3 dots and LM set bonus to +20 SI duration, they are acceptable now.

    Any more update on the other raid sets? Currently the following armor set bonuses are still weak/useless compared to other sets and needs to be changed before going live:

    - Champion: Yellow, Red, Blue line set bonuses.
    - Guardian: Red, Yellow
    - Hunter: Yellow, Red (Blood Arrow -CD is good bonus but it gives them great survivability which is not needed, especially concerning PvP), Blue
    - Captain: Yellow, Red, Blue
    - Rune-Keeper: Blue

    Others already pointed out why these sets are lackluster so no point explaining further.
    Red champ isnt that bad...problem is red line needs a tweak itself.
    Agreed on blue rk (same as chimp, that bonus should be a trait, not an armour bonus) and yellow/blue champ.
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
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  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfdur View Post
    Thanks for updating Warden set bonus to +3 dots and LM set bonus to +20 SI duration, they are acceptable now.

    Any more update on the other raid sets? Currently the following armor set bonuses are still weak/useless compared to other sets and needs to be changed before going live:

    - Champion: Yellow, Red, Blue line set bonuses.
    - Guardian: Red, Yellow
    - Hunter: Yellow, Red (Blood Arrow -CD is good bonus but it gives them great survivability which is not needed, especially concerning PvP), Blue
    - Captain: Yellow, Red, Blue
    - Rune-Keeper: Blue

    Others already pointed out why these sets are lackluster so no point explaining further.
    You forget blue guards, they still need a bonus which is a win in every situationnot just in one or two fights.

    And the red champ is nice added 50% uptime of the buff.
    Just calculate CB has 20s duration and know a cd of 90s makes all three minutes 40s of buffduration with thsi set champs get 60s out of 180s duration. So it´s a nice bonus for long fights.
    And if the yellow champ bonus doesn´t changed champs need at least just one set.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    You aren't very good hunter if you think DPS is only marginally above RKs. Only place where RK competes with hunter atm is in 3 man space in classic setup of tank+healer+DPS, where they are relatively close due hunters armor penetration being low. But if setup is RK+Hunter+Tank, hunter does easily more DPS and it's even more clear in raids. Having seen hunter literally pull 120k more dps in same situation than RK is quite depressing. Raid relic will push gap smaller sure, but no doubt hunter will still be on top.
    ...You aren't a very good RK if you think RK DPS is anything less than "marginally" behind Hunters? I can sustain 90-150k DPS on some bosses (and peak at much, much higher) and every time without fail, an RK will post a parse 10-15% lower, without the +2 DOT pulses set. Bear in mind we're talking top-tier RKs, but hunters achieving beyond 120k DPS for upwards of 5-6 minutes are pretty few and far between, too, having never even seen you link any post of substance, I doubt you're one of them.

    Hunter is once again about to become the most boring class to play, and the most unnecessary class to bring to any group. Without the mitigation debuff support of RKs and LMs, DPS is massively hindered, it's an RNG nightmare where poor RNG can yield you DPS levels literally 75% less than luckier parses. (50k dps vs, say, 150k until it normalises). In addition to this, the old debate of utility, in which an RK brings two in-combat pre-determined rezzes as well as non-existent power issues, far superior survivability, the ability to swap traits for CNR and Fates, and most of all they're not an Random Number Generated mess.
    #15skills

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfdur View Post
    - Hunter: Yellow
    There will never be a need for this particular set.

  20. #145
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    The only real joke here is poor guardian.

    I'd rather have original -30 sec charge CD red set so that i can knockdown and run faster a bit more often than this hammer down trash.
    If i want ''DPS'' (trolololol) i'll just pick the yellow set anyway...

    Bleed cashout is arguably better finisher than hammer down , does anyone even trait it anymore btw ? The skill is ULTRA WEAK for a capstone. Clucky and "''''''DPS'''''''''''' buff is a joke.
    No comments on the rest of the skills , i am ultra happy if i hit for 17k with them... My minstrel's minor ballad hits for 20k+++ on the same targets , just saying.

    I swear , other than the upcoming blue set , i haven't seen anything but nerfs to guardians for the past 2 years.
    They have broken DPS for ages , they recently lost 100% partials , they get almost 0 advantage from DPS runes and got no runes for tanking at all ( guards are propably the only class in-game that best in slot runes are pre-Mordor ones , maybe add tanking wardens too )
    But hey , fear not , hammer down set is coming soon(tm).

    Thank god force taunts in this game are broken since 5 years ago or so and guardian does not share the same fate as beorning..

    Anyhow , thanks for the rest of the changes i guess ; /
    Last edited by BotLike; Dec 04 2017 at 05:26 PM.

  21. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Cenifh View Post
    you got me until 50k finesse... I'm guessing you play on Crickhollow?
    Nah not really, I made my rk a healing set mainly and I'm still working on a dps setup, that said, with those poor stats I'm not that far behind decent hunters, yeah there are maybe 3-4 hunter who can fairly outdps my rk by a huge amount but the problem is not about what a class can do, but rather class minimum performance if everything goes wrong (with a skilled player), and there rk is much much more reliable than hunters, if hunters got bad proc/crit luck their dps sinks to almost nothing, on the same fight on my hunter (same Dol amroth dummy) for 1 mins parse I could either finish with 60k dps or 90k+ doing the same rotation, just because of RNG; with rk that just never happens, variability of dps is really thin. In hunter when someone asks me what my dps is in a certain fight I just say there's no way to know and I say it ranges from 20k to 30k(just random example), when they ask me the same about rk I can be sure I deal for example 20k, and that means a bad parse could be 19k or a good parse could be 21k, but nothing noticeable, so the difference is not that huge, unless ofc you deal 35k one day by huge crit luck and just decide that's your standard dps, but in my opinion it's not.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    Nah not really, I made my rk a healing set mainly and I'm still working on a dps setup, that said, with those poor stats I'm not that far behind decent hunters, yeah there are maybe 3-4 hunter who can fairly outdps my rk by a huge amount but the problem is not about what a class can do, but rather class minimum performance if everything goes wrong (with a skilled player), and there rk is much much more reliable than hunters, if hunters got bad proc/crit luck their dps sinks to almost nothing, on the same fight on my hunter (same Dol amroth dummy) for 1 mins parse I could either finish with 60k dps or 90k+ doing the same rotation, just because of RNG; with rk that just never happens, variability of dps is really thin. In hunter when someone asks me what my dps is in a certain fight I just say there's no way to know and I say it ranges from 20k to 30k(just random example), when they ask me the same about rk I can be sure I deal for example 20k, and that means a bad parse could be 19k or a good parse could be 21k, but nothing noticeable, so the difference is not that huge, unless ofc you deal 35k one day by huge crit luck and just decide that's your standard dps, but in my opinion it's not.
    I think the main problem in this discussion is that your definition of a decent hunter is different than other posters.
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  23. #148
    As a blue line champion tank that uses Blades of Courage from yellow, I wish I could use their set bonus instead of mine, which is wildly unnecessary for my rotation for pulls with >1 mob.
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  24. #149
    Cappy red set only works if you're in red line as it's purely tied to the trait from red line: "Lead the Charge". It'd be nice if this was changed to +3% incoming damage, as is stated on the armor, and actually worth using in all lines since the other sets are garbage.
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  25. #150
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    Between the relics and now the pulse set bonus, I have to say that RK concerns, which started with the initial release of Mordor, have been addressed in (relatively speaking) record time. It appears that RK tears are far more potent than hunter tears. So salut to those who won this round.

 

 
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